Most interesting religious conversation

Postby **Celtic_Moon** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 5:00 pm

As I've mentioned before one of my best friends back in New York is Eastern Orthodox and I was raised Catholic. We talk about everything and sometimes it comes to religion. My most interesting conversation about religion was about the birth of Christ which members of the western denomination celebrate on the 24th and 25th of December. My best friend however celebrates Christmas on the first week of April. I asked her why once and she said: The Bible said that shepards were watching their flocks by night. Why would they want to watch their flocks in the middle of winter.
So, what's your best story?

Blessed be the one True judge

Postby **Rashiir** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 6:38 pm

Plus we can't have Easter and Christmas all bunched up.

Postby **shooraijin** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:02 pm

Yeah, it would destroy the American retail economy.

Postby **Ashley** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:18 pm

Actually, I know an answer on that one. My latin class had a big discussion about the origin of holidays. There is sufficient proof that Christ was indeed, not born in december. However, the early church faced strong opposition from the pagan community when it first started, and so to help ease the transition to the new faith for many new converts (and to lessen the emphasis on pagan holy days), the church specifically chose to put their holy days (i.e. Easter, Pentecost, Christmas, etc.) on coinciding days with pagan events like Lupercalia and Saturnalia. Lingering traditions from these events---like gift giving (saturnalia) and valentines (Lupercalia) are around because of it.

Hope this helps!

Postby **Psycho Ann** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:21 pm

Does it really matter? XD He's born, He died, He rose, and He saved us all. ^^

Though I find it funny that people only believe in miracles on Christmas, etc, when they don't believe in Christ that it's based on.

Postby **Gypsy** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:33 pm

Yeah, I've often thought about that during all the fluffy Christmas movie marathons on tv.

Postby **_bluerose_** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 8:43 pm

*agrees with Spidey*

*lol @ Rashiir*

*ponders Psycho Ann's words* so true..

Postby **shooraijin** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 9:10 pm

> all the fluffy Christmas movie marathons

Miracle on 34th Street probably being the most egregious ...

Postby **uc pseudonym** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 6:43 am

I agree, in that it doesn't really matter when the holiday is celebrated. It's only purpose is a joyous celebration of what Christ did, not when Christ was born. By the previous comment, I mean: it isn't like there's anything specifically holy about the day Christ was born; and if there was, it would apply only to one day a long time ago.

Postby **EireWolf** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 1:18 am

shooraijin wrote:Yeah, it would destroy the American retail economy.

So true.

Incidentally, oldphilosopher and I are throwing around the idea of NOT giving gifts at Christmastime anymore. (Unless we find something really special for a specific person.) Instead, we would take the money we'd usually spend on gifts, and donate it to a charity that helps needy children or something like that. *because* we both got really tired of buying stuff for people just for the sake of buying stuff for people, because it's expected. What a horrible context for gift-giving. A true gift is something unmerited and unasked-for, right? So it seems to me that a gift should come from the heart, and unexpectedly. I'd still like to give gifts to people though, when I find something truly special for a special person. So instead of giving it at Christmastime (when everybody gets/gives gifts), wouldn't it mean much more if you gave it on a just-because day? So, what do you all think?

Okay, back to CelticMoon's topic! Sorry for the only-loosely-related diatribe. My former boss, who is still a good friend, is from India. He was raised as a Sikh, but seems to glean beliefs from Hinduism, New Age, pantheism, and even some Christianity, as well as a few other religions/belief systems. Eclectic mix, I know. Needless to say, we've had some interesting conversations. For some reason I can't think of any specific ones at the moment... Oh yeah, it could have something to do with the fact that I should be sleeping right now.
Speaking of which... I think I'll go do that. I tend to get a little punchy and random when I'm tired. G'night! :hug:

Postby **Rashiir** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 9:49 am

That is a good idea!

Postby **CDLviking** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:41 pm

Ashley wrote:Actually, I know an answer on that one. My latin class had a big discussion about the origin of holidays. There is sufficient proof that Christ was indeed, not born in december. However, the early church faced strong opposition from the pagan community when it first started, and so to help ease the transition to the new faith for many new converts (and to lessen the emphasis on pagan holy days), the church specifically chose to put their holy days (i.e. Easter, Pentecost, Christmas, etc.) on coinciding days with pagan events like Lupercalia and Saturnalia. Lingering traditions from these events---like gift giving (saturnalia) and valentines (Lupercalia) are around because of it.

Hope this helps!

There are also symbolic reasons for placing Christmas at that time in December. We all know that winter is the darkest part of the year. Nights are longer and days are shorter, but around this time days begin to get longer symbolizing the entry of Jesus Christ, the true Light of the world.

Postby **Slater** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:44 pm

very interesting look on things, CDL

Postby **Bobtheduck** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:47 pm

Actually, easter follows passover, since there is a definite link between the two of them... Any connection to Ishtar or any pagan ritual is an afterthought... Christmas, on the other hand, is not as historically based...

Postby **Yumie** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:19 pm

EireWolf wrote:
Incidentally, oldphilosopher and I are throwing around the idea of NOT giving gifts at Christmastime anymore. (Unless we find something really special for a specific person.) Instead, we would take the money we'd usually spend on gifts, and donate it to a charity that helps needy children or something like that. *because* we both got really tired of buying stuff for people just for the sake of buying stuff for people, because it's expected. What a horrible context for gift-giving. A true gift is something unmerited and unasked-for, right? So it seems to me that a gift should come from the heart, and unexpectedly. I'd still like to give gifts to people though, when I find something truly special for a special person. So instead of giving it at Christmastime (when everybody gets/gives gifts), wouldn't it mean much more if you gave it on a just-because day? So, what do you all think?

I think it's a good idea to give just-because gifts. But I could never exclude giving gifts at the Christmas. I save up all kinds of money so I can buy a lot of special things for my family at Christmas, not because I have to but because I really enjoy it! I don't like giving because I HAVE to, or because someone will be upset if I don't. But I love having the excuse to give gifts at Christmas.

Postby **EireWolf** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:24 pm

Funny that this topic popped up again. Mith and I DID give Christmas gifts, after all. It turned out not to be quite as stressful and annoying as I thought, and we found some fun gifts.

Here's another thing I'm considering: being a sculptor, I can MAKE gifts for people during the slow months of summer. That is, if I'm disciplined enough. :sweat:

I think sculptures would mean more to my family than gifts I purchased, anyway.

Yumie, you totally have the right attitude about gift-giving. I wish I felt the way you do about it; maybe that's something I need to pray about. It's just that I have felt this great big OBLIGATION hanging over my head around Christmastime. It isn't that I don't like giving gifts; it's that I don't like feeling like I HAVE to. (I despise shopping; that doubtless has a lot to do with it.)

Postby **Aka-chan** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:28 am

Cool ideas here...

I had a very interesting and surprisingly civil conversation with a Jewish friend about Jesus, angels, heaven, and hell the other day.

Most interesting religious conversation

Most interesting religious conversation

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