Kaligraphic (post: 1459485) wrote:If your church's main draws are a guilt trip, a political platform, and maybe a half-decent band/organist/choir/etc., then maybe getting more people to come shouldn't be your first concern. Maybe the one you need to get back is God.
Midori wrote:I don't like it when people generalize over churches saying "American churches are like this". As I have said in a different thread a long time ago, I know that my own church is a very good church, and it saddens me to have people talk as though because it is American it is full of anti-diversity, emotional manipulation, and impersonality. It's true that in some places it can be hard to find churches that do not propagate good Christian values, but I think this is not an argument for having less churches]Facebook[/s] CAA.
Kaligraphic wrote:If your church's main draws are a guilt trip, a political platform, and maybe a half-decent band/organist/choir/etc., then maybe getting more people to come shouldn't be your first concern. Maybe the one you need to get back is God.
Men cry not for themselves, but for there comrades.-FF7 Crisis CoreIn the beginning, God created HTML...- R. Zion
Nate (post: 1459481) wrote:I don't think small churches are inherently better than larger churches though, same as I don't think small classes are inherently better. Especially when you do consider things such as offerings, how much would a pastor make at a church with only ten members? Probably not enough to survive, he'd need a second job, which at some point would almost certainly affect his sermons or ability to help others outside of Sunday ("Pastor I have a problem." "Sorry I don't get off work for another five hours.").
Cognitive Gear (post: 1459489) wrote:Yeah, this has been my experience as well. I don't care if my pastor, or family, or friends don't agree with my political views. What I do care about is being told that I am "an agent of the enemy" simply because our views in that area differ. Now, if they could prove that these were views that I must hold as a Christian, as they claim they are, then that would be a different matter and I would accept the rebuke. But as things currently stand, they are alienating both myself and a great number of both believers and non-believers.
goldenspines wrote:Its only stealing if you don't get caught.
Nate (post: 1459491) wrote:Yeah, I don't mind if my pastor or even if everyone else in the church except me is conservative. I don't mind that at all. What I mind is when they try to make their politics part of the sermon. A pastor can say "Abortion is murder" all he wants, but if he says it from the pulpit, then sorry, I'm not going to attend that church.
Nate (post: 1459491) wrote:Yeah, I don't mind if my pastor or even if everyone else in the church except me is conservative. I don't mind that at all. What I mind is when they try to make their politics part of the sermon.
armeckthefirst wrote:saying "abortion is murder" doesn't have to be a political statement...
armeckthefirst (post: 1459504) wrote:saying "abortion is murder" doesn't have to be a political statement...
firestorm wrote:Now I don't believe that playing a musical instrument is killing the church, but I do believe it's encouraging something along with this Generation. To Quote John Piper
"One of the great uses of musical instruments will be to prove at the Last Day that prayerlessness was not from lack of time."
Let's face it. Playing a musical instrument at it's core is an activity we like to participate in. . .
ironically, we lose the chance to experience the life that God has planned for us, one of the biggest pleasures he can give us, and that's the saddest thing of all.
Nate (post: 1459524) wrote:Sorry but this is just the standard "I don't like that which is new to me" syndrome. We all go through it. Look at me and 3D in movies. 3D is totally stupid and a waste of time and it's ruining movies! Except it isn't. There are directors who have used 3D in excellent ways in their movies (most use it badly). I still don't like 3D in movies no matter how well it's done, though. And that's because it's new to me and I don't like it. People said the same thing about sound and color in movies. They said the same thing about television and the telephone. They said the same about rock music and comic books and video games.
Everything new that the older generation doesn't like gets held up as an example of ruining something. Sometimes it is as drastic as "the downfall of society" but other times it's more mild like "waste of time that could be spent serving God."
goldenspines wrote:Its only stealing if you don't get caught.
Peanut wrote:Beck seems to actually be really high on Facebook and his article reads more like a diagnostic analysis that's at least trying to be objective then a rant by some old dude who wishes we were still in the 1950s in terms of technology.
Nate (post: 1459606) wrote:I would argue just because he uses Facebook doesn't mean he thinks it's good. He may thoroughly hate Facebook but use it anyway. I mean that's kind of like claiming that atheists who read the Bible and study it diligently can't possibly dislike it because look how much attention they're paying to it.
goldenspines wrote:Its only stealing if you don't get caught.
Maledicte (post: 1459710) wrote:As far as I can tell, he rather likes Facebook.
Beck wrote:Second, some people think I'm trashing social networking. I'm not. In fact, I'm tacitly praising it. I'm basically saying that social networking is so effective that we no longer need physical locations to mix and mingle. The local church was, once, one of those places (as were other "third places"). Web 2.0 is, I think, putting competitive pressure on those traditional meeting spaces. Further, I'm also not saying that social networking can't be effectively used by churches. In fact, I think the church is going to have to play ball with Web 2.0.
goldenspines wrote:Its only stealing if you don't get caught.
Nate (post: 1459524) wrote:If you don't like "playing a musical instrument," feel free to replace the phrase with "reading books," "sports," or well, pretty much anything people like to do.
Sorry but this is just the standard "I don't like that which is new to me" syndrome. We all go through it. Look at me and 3D in movies. 3D is totally stupid and a waste of time and it's ruining movies! Except it isn't. There are directors who have used 3D in excellent ways in their movies (most use it badly). I still don't like 3D in movies no matter how well it's done, though. And that's because it's new to me and I don't like it. People said the same thing about sound and color in movies. They said the same thing about television and the telephone. They said the same about rock music and comic books and video games.
Everything new that the older generation doesn't like gets held up as an example of ruining something. Sometimes it is as drastic as "the downfall of society" but other times it's more mild like "waste of time that could be spent serving God."
Okay, look. I'll be the first to admit I don't do as much as I could to serve God. But that's human nature. We're fallible and not perfect. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to be better, but it also means I'm not going to get guilt tripped about playing video games or watching TV. In fact, I could turn the argument around on you. You have 677 posts on CAA (at the time of this post)! Even if every post took only one minute to write, that's almost ten hours you could have been spending praying or reading the Bible or helping at a charity! Clearly, this means CAA is problematic.
See what I mean? It can be applied to anything. Even sitting in a pew listening to a sermon is wasting time that could be spent going out and converting people to Christ or helping those who are less fortunate. Is church itself a waste of time simply because we're not out actively helping people? Of course not! But it also falls in the same category of "time that could be spent witnessing to others." Or if you want to make the argument that church has sermons that help you understand God better, I'll grant you that, but there's still all that singing and greeting time that could be cut out to make more time for witnessing.
It's not a sin to do things we enjoy. We shouldn't ever feel guilty for doing things we enjoy (as long as they're not sins, that is, but that should go without saying). I'm sure God wants us to do things we enjoy! God is our Father after all, yes? When I was out running around having a good time as a kid, I'm sure my dad liked it. My dad liked watching me do things I enjoyed doing and having a good time. I'm sure God is the same way.
As long as these things don't become more important than God, obviously. But that too should go without saying.
This seems to me like saying "If you don't like the same things I like then you're missing out." I like playing video games. It's awesome. I'm not missing out on anything if I play video games. I enjoy them. Someone else might not like video games and see them as a waste of time. But that's only because that person doesn't like them. I do. I personally think baseball is horribly boring and dull and watching baseball is a waste of time. But some people actually like watching baseball (I don't understand it either, it seems impossible), and so if they enjoy watching baseball, then it's not a waste of time for them to watch baseball.
I'm experiencing my life that God gave me. I'm enjoying pleasure by playing video games. Video games are not my idol, and they're not supplanting God in my life. Everyone has different likes and dislikes and different tastes and enjoyments. Playing video games isn't a sin, and it's not more important to me than God. So if anyone even insinuated that me playing video games was "losing a chance to experience life" or that playing video games is "sad" in some way, I'd be pretty annoyed. Just sayin'.
firestorm (post: 1459513) wrote: Now I don't believe that Facebook and social networking is killing the church, but I do believe it's encouraging something along with this Generation. To Quote John Piper
"One of the great uses of Twitter and Facebook will be to prove at the Last Day that prayerlessness was not from lack of time."
firestorm (post: 1459513) wrote:Let's face it. Facebook and social networking at it's core is an activity we like to participate in. We as humans love to fill our lives with things that satisfy us (not to say that's bad).
armeckthefirst (post: 1459504) wrote:saying "abortion is murder" doesn't have to be a political statement...
Radical Dreamer (post: 1459511) wrote:Mod note: we are not going to go down that road in this thread, given its political nature.
F.M Disciple (post: 1463238) wrote:It's a crying shame that that the pro-life movement has become so politically partisan that its not funny.
And that is all I'll say
(so please be gentle to me mods, lol)
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