Radical Dreamer (post: 1461117) wrote:I actually watched this video on my brother's blog the other day, and I agree so much with what he's saying. XD The video I'm linking, by the way, is basically the ten minute version of what you posted, I think. XD Still John Piper's views of the prosperity gospel, just more detailed. XD
ShiroiHikari (post: 1461133) wrote:I agree on the point that we, as Christians, SHOULD NOT attempt to dupe the very poor into thinking that all Jesus is good for is providing earthly goods.
However, I really didn't interpret this as saying, "Everyone should suffer". What he's saying is that God is glorified the most when we glorify Him even when we are suffering. I don't think we should seek to make ourselves or others suffer, but suffering happens. It rains on the just and the unjust alike.
shooraijin (post: 1461325) wrote:Everybody likes a little drama.
Syreth (post: 1461291) wrote:I disagree with the prosperity gospel as well. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that God is MOST glorified in the midst of suffering. I wouldn't presume to say what most glorifies God, except, you know, Jesus.
Syreth wrote:There seems to be this underlying feeling that Christians should be experiencing suffering, or else they're not very spiritual. I feel that this feeling drives people to either manufacture their own suffering or seek it out. Not that Mr. Piper is intending to do this, but I do sense some of this particular feeling in his video.
ShiroiHikari wrote:A lot of Christian authority figures from my childhood used to say that if I wasn't suffering all the time, I was doing it wrong. I...guess I don't really see the logic there.
Syreth (post: 1461291) wrote:I disagree with the prosperity gospel as well. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that God is MOST glorified in the midst of suffering. I wouldn't presume to say what most glorifies God, except, you know, Jesus.
There seems to be this underlying feeling that Christians should be experiencing suffering, or else they're not very spiritual. I feel that this feeling drives people to either manufacture their own suffering or seek it out. Not that Mr. Piper is intending to do this, but I do sense some of this particular feeling in his video.
goldenspines wrote:Its only stealing if you don't get caught.
Nate (post: 1461387) wrote:While I do agree that God can work even through bad theology, I still think the prosperity gospel is dangerous. Especially to people in Africa, it can be actively harmful. If they get into their heads that God will make you wealthy and healthy and happy if you believe, and they still continue to be poor and suffer, then they will either conclude that they are bad Christians and are going to Hell and be miserable, or that those evangelists were huge liars and don't believe anything they say.
Which could then be spread to other places there. "Oh if some guy comes and talks to you about someone named Jesus, don't listen, he's just making stuff up. He told me about Jesus and how Jesus would make me rich and I'm just as poor as ever, what a bunch of liars."
goldenspines wrote:Its only stealing if you don't get caught.
Peanut (post: 1461410) wrote:I should also mention that within Pentecostalism there has been a major push for social justice as well. So, the Prosperity Gospel does have competition and I'm pretty sure social justice is winning out. Again, I can't say for certain, but it does seem that way.
QtheQreater (post: 1461421) wrote:Just to clarify, are you talking about social justice or liberation theology?
goldenspines wrote:Its only stealing if you don't get caught.
Peanut (post: 1461422) wrote:Social justice. Though honestly I have a hunch that there is a connection between the two in many Christian circles since liberation theology has been pretty influential.
Nate (post: 1461387) wrote:While I do agree that God can work even through bad theology, I still think the prosperity gospel is dangerous. Especially to people in Africa, it can be actively harmful. If they get into their heads that God will make you wealthy and healthy and happy if you believe, and they still continue to be poor and suffer, then they will either conclude that they are bad Christians and are going to Hell and be miserable, or that those evangelists were huge liars and don't believe anything they say.
Which could then be spread to other places there. "Oh if some guy comes and talks to you about someone named Jesus, don't listen, he's just making stuff up. He told me about Jesus and how Jesus would make me rich and I'm just as poor as ever, what a bunch of liars."
on another ADD note. The words Social Justice drive me nuts. I hate them, I prefer EQUAL Justice XD. Anyway, that's not what this thread is about. XP!
Nate (post: 1461430) wrote:I've never understood the phrase "social justice." I mean how is justice anything but social? You can't have "individual justice" can you?
goldenspines wrote:Its only stealing if you don't get caught.
Cognitive Gear wrote:Most of the proponents of social justice would say that social justice is about the equal value of mankind, no matter their earthly possessions, location, race, etc.
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