Virginity seen as bad!?

[Dante]

The Mormon church does this quite heavily. If you are a Mormon and you turn 18, you are required to attend singles meetings if you don't have someone you're dating. And if you do have someone you're dating, you have to keep your pastor informed of when you plan to marry that person. And should you happen to break up, it's singles meetings for you again where they'll ask you every week "So what are you doing to find someone? How hard are you looking? Where are you going to meet people? How aggressive are you in talking to the opposite sex?"

My sister got married young, but I really don't remember anything much about this - it certainly wasn't an influencing factor in her marriage. It's true that they put a high value on marriage and I think that their culture tends to push people to marry younger then they normally would, but I don't remember her talking about any weekly interrogations or anything like that XD. She'd probably would have told them off if they tried anything like that!

[KhakiBlueSocks]

[font="Trebuchet MS"][SIZE="4"][color="RoyalBlue"]With all the things you see on TV and in media about having sex and how if you're not having sex, you're not cool, it's no wonder there are girls walking around here right now in their teens expecting kids.

I'm saving myself because I want the girl who I am blessed with to save herself for me. I know it might not make sense, but I want my soul mate to be my first and I want to be her first. For me, my virginity is special and, regardless on what anyone else thinks--I'm keeping myself for that one special person because I know, somewhere, she's keeping herself for me.

Besides, can you imagine 1 or 2 little Josh's running around the world? Scary thought, isn't it?[/color][/SIZE][/font]

[Mr. SmartyPants]

In my experience, it's not that being a virgin is "bad", it's just that people see you as missing out on something great. It's more pity than anything. And I'm sure we all know that sex is a physically great thing. It usually feels great.

So while I think it's better remain chaste till marriage, I don't think it's fair to make blanket statements like "secular people and society think virginity is bad" is being fair to others.

[Nate]

My sister got married young, but I really don't remember anything much about this

To be fair, it may have just been that one particular church he went to. However, he did say that it was a Mormon thing, so I took that to mean all Mormons.

[fermy6]

To put it bluntly I think that since we are living in the End Times the morals of society are starting to change and what was seen as immoral long ago is seen as cool now.....just my thoughts

[Nate]

since we are living in the End Times the morals of society are starting to change and what was seen as immoral long ago is seen as cool now

We've been living in the End Times for almost 2000 years. I'm pretty sure that that has nothing to do with how society is.

By the way, you think the morals of society are starting to change, and what is immoral is now acceptable? So what you're saying is, you feel like this:

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"

Guess who said that? Plato, who lived from 428-348 BC. That's "Before Christ." In other words, Plato said the same things you're saying right now. Over three-hundred years before Jesus was born. Does that tell you something? No generation is immoral or worse than the ones before it. People just fear change. The world has kept going and the world will keep going, and humanity will be fine. Every generation thinks "These darn kids today are worse than ever!"

Guess what? Your grandparents said the same thing about your parents, about how their generation was so much worse than theirs. And your great-grandparents said the same thing about your grandparents. And your great-great-grandparents said the same thing about your great-grandparents.

Want more quotes? Here's a good one:

"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress." This quote is attributed to Peter the Hermit in the 1200s. Not quite as old as Plato's, but still pretty old. So lemme get an older one.

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint." This is from Hesiod, who lived between 750 and 650 BC. That's over three hundred years before Plato! Since we're not running around naked living in caves and doing whatever we please, I think it's safe to say that this generation is no worse than any other generation that ever lived.

Let's see what else.

In April 1738, the press covered a report from a British Government committee which had been set up to "examine the causes of the present notorious immorality and profaneness."

In the 1800s, hordes of teens and pre-teens ran wild in American city streets, dodging authorities, "gnawing away at the foundations of society", as a commentator put it. In 1850, New York City recorded more than 200 gang wars fought largely by adolescent boys.

And finally, to drive my point home and prove it beyond all doubt...

"We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self control."

Know what that's from? A 6000 year old Egyptian tomb. In 4000 BC, they were talking about how "this new generation is more immoral than ever before."

I think no more needs to be said.

[rocklobster]

[font="Trebuchet MS"][SIZE="4"][color="RoyalBlue"]With all the things you see on TV and in media about having sex and how if you're not having sex, you're not cool, it's no wonder there are girls walking around here right now in their teens expecting kids.

I'm saving myself because I want the girl who I am blessed with to save herself for me. I know it might not make sense, but I want my soul mate to be my first and I want to be her first. For me, my virginity is special and, regardless on what anyone else thinks--I'm keeping myself for that one special person because I know, somewhere, she's keeping herself for me.

Besides, can you imagine 1 or 2 little Josh's running around the world? Scary thought, isn't it?[/color][/SIZE][/font]

Oh, come on, you seem like you'd steer them in the right direction.

[fermy6]

We've been living in the End Times for almost 2000 years. I'm pretty sure that that has nothing to do with how society is.

By the way, you think the morals of society are starting to change, and what is immoral is now acceptable? So what you're saying is, you feel like this:

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"

Guess who said that? Plato, who lived from 428-348 BC. That's "Before Christ." In other words, Plato said the same things you're saying right now. Over three-hundred years before Jesus was born. Does that tell you something? No generation is immoral or worse than the ones before it. People just fear change. The world has kept going and the world will keep going, and humanity will be fine. Every generation thinks "These darn kids today are worse than ever!"

Guess what? Your grandparents said the same thing about your parents, about how their generation was so much worse than theirs. And your great-grandparents said the same thing about your grandparents. And your great-great-grandparents said the same thing about your great-grandparents.

Want more quotes? Here's a good one:

"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress." This quote is attributed to Peter the Hermit in the 1200s. Not quite as old as Plato's, but still pretty old. So lemme get an older one.

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint." This is from Hesiod, who lived between 750 and 650 BC. That's over three hundred years before Plato! Since we're not running around naked living in caves and doing whatever we please, I think it's safe to say that this generation is no worse than any other generation that ever lived.

Let's see what else.

In April 1738, the press covered a report from a British Government committee which had been set up to "examine the causes of the present notorious immorality and profaneness."

In the 1800s, hordes of teens and pre-teens ran wild in American city streets, dodging authorities, "gnawing away at the foundations of society", as a commentator put it. In 1850, New York City recorded more than 200 gang wars fought largely by adolescent boys.

And finally, to drive my point home and prove it beyond all doubt...

"We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self control."

Know what that's from? A 6000 year old Egyptian tomb. In 4000 BC, they were talking about how "this new generation is more immoral than ever before."

I think no more needs to be said.

Thanx Nate....I never saw it that way

[Sheenar]

Yeah, there's an older woman at my church who is just dead convinced that morality and ethics are slipping nowadays. No matter how much I tell her that issues like premarital sex, drugs, rudeness, etc. have been around for a LONG time. It gets pretty annoying.

I get asked when I'm going to find someone at every family get-together. It gets really old. They keep asking b/c I am 25 and both of my cousins have someone (one is married, the other engaged) and b/c all of my old roommates are now married. I keep saying "it'll happen in God's timing", but that answer is never good enough for some reason. So pressuring people to marry isn't a good thing. It's beyond my control at this time --I can't make a guy like me. (And I'm not going to lower my standards to try to get a guy, either.)

Josh, I am also saving myself for my future spouse. I don't want to give myself to someone who isn't committed to me or who hasn't earned my trust. Though, I'd be willing to marry someone who has messed up sexually in the past. God offers forgiveness and restoration for that and we all have our pasts. If he's a godly man now, regardless of his past mistakes, I don't really have any right to put him down or disregard him because his past is under the blood of Christ. So, while being a virgin is commendable, having messed up sexually and no longer being one isn't a reason to look down on someone, especially if God has already forgiven them for it b/c they since came to Christ.

[Shao Feng-Li]

I don't get it. It's as if being a virgin labels someone as a loser or weirdo. But what is with kids, as young as 13 or even younger, in such a rush to lose and brag about not being a virgin? They've barely made it to adolescense and already sexually active. Not to down play anyone who has done this, but I just don't understand. I know everyone's hormones is in a tizzy at that age, but I'm pretty sure the media is the one mainly behind this.

Not too long ago, a friend of mine thought I was crazy and would be demanding too much when I told her that I plan to stay a virgin until marriage. I mean, is it really asking too much!? I've even heard a friend of mine call a girl I accidently ran into a "friend with benefits."

There was a time where remaining a virgin until marriage was commemorable, honorable even. It was seen as a great thing for it to be with only one person. But now, it seen as a sign of weakness?

What happend over the years!?

I haven't gotten any grief over being a virgin, but people around have made sex jokes and then wonder why I don't get them XD But yeah, our society is just kinda, obsessed with sex it seems. At least, it seems to have grown more in the U.S. (No, I don't have data to back it all up, just seems that way to me.) Everyone seems obsessed with teens being pregnant and paying them lots of money for being on TV...

On of my favorite things is on the radio. There's an ad encouraging parents to talk to their kids about sex and then the next song to play is by Ke$ha.

Like... yeah...

[Yamamaya]

In my experience, it's not that being a virgin is "bad", it's just that people see you as missing out on something great. It's more pity than anything. And I'm sure we all know that sex is a physically great thing. It usually feels great.

So while I think it's better remain chaste till marriage, I don't think it's fair to make blanket statements like "secular people and society think virginity is bad" is being fair to others.

Yes but pity is often tied in with an idea of superiority. As Mr T would say, "I pity the fool." This is why there are so many "virgin" jokes. If you're a virgin, there are several assumptions made about you such as you're a religious fanatic, or you're a loser. I agree with the rest of your post.

[font="Trebuchet MS"][SIZE="4"][color="RoyalBlue"]
Besides, can you imagine 1 or 2 little Josh's running around the world? Scary thought, isn't it?[/color][/SIZE][/font]

Ah come on, they would be great. They'd be out there spreading love and peace....or spreading chaos and destruction.

We've been living in the End Times for almost 2000 years. I'm pretty sure that that has nothing to do with how society is.

By the way, you think the morals of society are starting to change, and what is immoral is now acceptable? So what you're saying is, you feel like this:

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"

Guess who said that? Plato, who lived from 428-348 BC. That's "Before Christ." In other words, Plato said the same things you're saying right now. Over three-hundred years before Jesus was born. Does that tell you something? No generation is immoral or worse than the ones before it. People just fear change. The world has kept going and the world will keep going, and humanity will be fine. Every generation thinks "These darn kids today are worse than ever!"

Guess what? Your grandparents said the same thing about your parents, about how their generation was so much worse than theirs. And your great-grandparents said the same thing about your grandparents. And your great-great-grandparents said the same thing about your great-grandparents.

Want more quotes? Here's a good one:

"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress." This quote is attributed to Peter the Hermit in the 1200s. Not quite as old as Plato's, but still pretty old. So lemme get an older one.

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint." This is from Hesiod, who lived between 750 and 650 BC. That's over three hundred years before Plato! Since we're not running around naked living in caves and doing whatever we please, I think it's safe to say that this generation is no worse than any other generation that ever lived.

Let's see what else.

In April 1738, the press covered a report from a British Government committee which had been set up to "examine the causes of the present notorious immorality and profaneness."

In the 1800s, hordes of teens and pre-teens ran wild in American city streets, dodging authorities, "gnawing away at the foundations of society", as a commentator put it. In 1850, New York City recorded more than 200 gang wars fought largely by adolescent boys.

And finally, to drive my point home and prove it beyond all doubt...

"We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self control."

Know what that's from? A 6000 year old Egyptian tomb. In 4000 BC, they were talking about how "this new generation is more immoral than ever before."

I think no more needs to be said.

This is definitely true. Although I believe Peter the Hermit lived in the late 1000s, unless you're talking about a different Peter the Hermit. I'm thinking of the one that led the first group of crusaders during the First Crusade(although his army were mostly peasants. They all got slaughtered by the Turks).

As Solomon said, "There's nothing new under the sun." The only difference is that with the advent of media, such "immoralities" are more visible than before. Not to mention the advent of modern weapons has caused far more widespread destruction than ever before. Every generation views their generation through a nostalgia filter and views the new generation as being less moral than the previous one.

[LadyRushia]

I get asked when I'm going to find someone at every family get-together. It gets really old. They keep asking b/c I am 25 and both of my cousins have someone (one is married, the other engaged) and b/c all of my old roommates are now married. I keep saying "it'll happen in God's timing", but that answer is never good enough for some reason. So pressuring people to marry isn't a good thing. It's beyond my control at this time --I can't make a guy like me. (And I'm not going to lower my standards to try to get a guy, either.)

Yeah, people don't really bother me about it now but I expect it to get worse as I get further into my 20s.

Also, I've learned to stop assuming I'm going to find someone in the first place. Honestly, you can want something really badly and God won't have your life pan out like that for a number of reasons. Call it pessimism or practicality, but I'd rather not get my hopes up.

[ShiroiHikari]

They don't stop pestering you about stuff once you get married, either. Trust me. I hear "When are you going to have kids?" ALL THE TIME. :|

[Cognitive Gear]

In my experience, it's not that being a virgin is "bad", it's just that people see you as missing out on something great. It's more pity than anything. And I'm sure we all know that sex is a physically great thing. It usually feels great.

So while I think it's better remain chaste till marriage, I don't think it's fair to make blanket statements like "secular people and society think virginity is bad" is being fair to others.

I don't know about you, but generally I don't ridicule people that I feel pity towards, especially not about the unfortunate thing that is happening to them.

I'm certain that there are some people out there who feel that way, but I'd say that it's more likely to be the exception rather than the rule.

Yeah, people don't really bother me about it now but I expect it to get worse as I get further into my 20s.

On the positive side, most people stop pressuring after you have been in your mid twenties and have stayed single for a few years. They have for me, anyways.

Also, I've learned to stop assuming I'm going to find someone in the first place. Honestly, you can want something really badly and God won't have your life pan out like that for a number of reasons. Call it pessimism or practicality, but I'd rather not get my hopes up.

Adopting that attitude ended up doing wonders for me. Instead of focusing on what was "wrong with me", I was able to focus on what I enjoy about myself, and who I wanted to be and possibly be with. Somewhere between learning to like myself and being less concerned with getting into a relationship, women started liking me. I still haven't been in a relationship in my 20's, but now that is almost entirely a matter of choice and standards rather than something that just made me sad.

[Sheenar]

Yeah, people don't really bother me about it now but I expect it to get worse as I get further into my 20s.

Also, I've learned to stop assuming I'm going to find someone in the first place. Honestly, you can want something really badly and God won't have your life pan out like that for a number of reasons. Call it pessimism or practicality, but I'd rather not get my hopes up.

I don't actually obsess over it all that much. I am actually having a lot of fun being single (like that last-minute decision to go to Kansas City last week for the conference --couldn't do that if I was in a relationship.)
I just prefer to stay hopeful and optimistic --I don't feel that I am setting myself up for a letdown. I'm okay with not getting married if things go that way. It's just something I hope happens somewhere along the way. I don't think anything is wrong with me --I just think it's just not the right time right now for a relationship --and that is perfectly fine.

And the pestering about getting into a relationship does get worse when you hit your mid-20s and beyond. It has been suggested by relatives that maybe I should start showing a little cleavage to "snag" a guy. That whole idea is just SO distasteful to me.

[armeck]

I don't know about you, but generally I don't ridicule people that I feel pity towards, especially not about the unfortunate thing that is happening to them.

when it comes to teenagers i do believe my chemical romance summed it up well when they said "they couldn't care as long as someone will bleed" not this does not apply across the bored, but it's still VERY common. at least as far as all the kids i know go.... even the "christian" ones

[LadyRushia]

^That applies to all people in general, regardless of age.

[steenajack]

People seem to blame it on so many things:

Media, pure pressure, natural sexual tension, lust.......society in general is a rough place. There are people pressuring you to do stuff because we all bought into a lie.

There are two lies in this world about sex:

1) Sex outside of marriage is okay

2) Sex is evil and a sin

The thing is sex is a beautiful thing that God created for us. An expression of love....it's not love itself, but a symbolism of two people becoming one. That's why it's so sacred as TG put it, and I personally believe that it's almost a mockery of what it was meant to be when people have it outside of marriage.

Now I don't want to condemn people who do "do it" outside of marriage. I know people who did, and I don't believe that the children that come as a result are mistakes or anything like that at all. They are children that God made...no matter how they came about.

But yeah, I still believe that sex is at least worth waiting for. Y'know? I'll tell you this: Reguardless of whether it's a sin or not, is it even right to do it outside of marriage? Think about it. Reguardless of whether the Bible says it's a sin or not, I would still want to wait, simply because I really only want to save it for one person in my life....because I believe it's that special and sacred.

I think a reasons why people people are pressured about being a virgin are those two lies I mentioned. If you think about, just about any reason someone has sex outside of marriage can be linked to these to lies.

Well, to tell you the truth I don't give a rip what people think about me being a virgin. I personally and proud of my choice.....and I'm sticking to it.

[Cardiche007]

People seem to blame it on so many things:


Now I don't want to condemn people who do "do it" outside of marriage. I know people who did, and I don't believe that the children that come as a result are mistakes or anything like that at all. They are children that God made...no matter how they came about.

It's occurred to me that marriage really is more than a spiritual/sociologic bonding in this culture of ours. It is also a financial bonding or burden depending on how circumstance and how you think.

Some couples are mismatched financially]Jesus didn't command that. God did, and that's only half the commandment. People seem to forget the whole "fill the earth and subdue it" part. Which is, y'know, kind of important when there's only two people on the entire planet. When there's 7 billion, not so much.

I'd say no, it isn't natural. And besides, then you'd have to hate on dudes who were naturally sterile through no fault of their own, or dudes who became sterile, or dudes who lost body parts in horrible mutilating accidents. Or women who are barren, or became unable to become pregnant because of a traumatic experience.

If this was ancient Israel, then yes. But since it isn't, then no. Otherwise it'd still be mandatory to take your brother's wife as your own wife if he died and they didn't have kids, and you'd be publicly humiliated if you didn't. And she'd spit in your face. [/QUOTE]


I see your point, Nate. That quote feel terribly far out of context and even ended in the mouth of someone who never even said that.

My second point I should have made a bit clearer. I really wasn't thinking of people physically incapable so much as I was considering people who are just lazy and don't have much regard for the good things in life. I suppose part of me was also considering mentally unwell people. In my opinion, anyways, I consider indolent, non responsive folk to be mentally unwell...then again, I qualify as an indolent, non-responsive, and mentally unwell person and struggle very much with that fact. It is even possible that my views on life are somewhat lopsided as a result.

Last thing: I wonder (honestly) if certain Orthodox Jews in the Middle East still do that? Would we even hear about it if they did?

P.S. to anyone: How do I use the multi-quote option? I haven't found in any faqs yet or I am only failing at life today.

<modnote!> To use the multi-quote option, click that square button with the + symbol and quotation marks, and then hit the "quote" button on the last post you want to quote. It will take you to the "go advanced" page immediately, and you can make your replies from there. Hope that helps!

[mechana2015]

P.S. to anyone: How do I use the multi-quote option? I haven't found in any faqs yet or I am only failing at life today.

I usually just open the posts I want to quote in different tabs then copy the text with the quote marks to one of the tabs and finish the post there.

[Nate]

I really wasn't thinking of people physically incapable so much as I was considering people who are just lazy and don't have much regard for the good things in life.

But it's foolish to think that people who are virgins don't care about sex. Your statement makes no sense. I'm a virgin and I think about sex constantly. Besides, the people who are making fun of virgins aren't doing it because "Ha ha s/he's not reproducing and propagating the human race." They're doing it because "Ha ha what a loser s/he can't get a girl/guy."

Even if it's "warped" somehow, that doesn't change the fact that you can have sex and not produce children, and in that case, the people who pick on virgins wouldn't make fun of the person anymore. So obviously, it has nothing to do with reproduction, or else they'd still make fun of those people.

I suppose part of me was also considering mentally unwell people. In my opinion, anyways, I consider indolent, non responsive folk to be mentally unwell

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

[Lynna]

So the push should not be against being a virgin, it should be against being single.

This. This. This.when I was in 8th grade and I turned down a guy who asked me out, instantly the girls in me class wanted to know why not, and they pressured me to go out with him for around 2 days. It was very irritating. I tried to explain why not, but I am really bad at explaining things, as always.

I've never been teased for being a virgin, but I suppose by the time I hit colledge people will think it strange. I don't care though. I plan to stay a virgin until I'm married, for the same reasons al most of the other people here have stated, and what others think of my decision is irrelevent.

[Yamamaya]

This. This. This.when I was in 8th grade and I turned down a guy who asked me out, instantly the girls in me class wanted to know why not, and they pressured me to go out with him for around 2 days. It was very irritating. I tried to explain why not, but I am really bad at explaining things, as always.

I've never been teased for being a virgin, but I suppose by the time I hit colledge people will think it strange. I don't care though. I plan to stay a virgin until I'm married, for the same reasons al most of the other people here have stated, and what others think of my decision is irrelevent.

The difference that comes from being in college is that you don't have to take crap from people and people tend to be less concerned about increasing their social status. People in college have to worry about classes, money, and all that jazz. Yes you still might get ridiculed for it, but it's also important to note that your sexual life is none of their business.

[Cardiche007]

But it's foolish to think that people who are virgins don't care about sex. Your statement makes no sense. I'm a virgin and I think about sex constantly. Besides, the people who are making fun of virgins aren't doing it because "Ha ha s/he's not reproducing and propagating the human race." They're doing it because "Ha ha what a loser s/he can't get a girl/guy

Marriage is the only context in which Christianity views sex as useful, and for the stereotypical Christian, whether propagation is an object or not, there is still the work ethic thing and the moral pressure to support your 'family' or whatever...It's like Christians have to jump through two very big hoops in order to get laid: Get paid and buy a ring. To top it all off, I've never heard of anyone sitting still through a sexual encounter of any sort; even the people laying on their backs feel more involved than that somehow...I don't know...but the idea of laziness and sex are somehow opposites to my way of thinking.

Then there's a parable about a rotten tree that produces sorry fruit, and we all know fruit symbolizes more than one thing. On the one, it is reward for tilling the soil faithfully and so to that extent harvest is like pay day. On the other hand fruit also symbolizes the continuation of the cycle. A seed in the fruit grows a new tree. Hence the double-entendre of 'plowing one's field.'

On yet another level, people who never get any sex at all are more likely to be depressed and feel lonely. Then again, people who have too much sex aren't likely to feel much better either (all work and no play).

[shooraijin]

It's like Christians have to jump through two very big hoops in order to get laid: Get paid and buy a ring.

So show your cards. Why is it bad to be responsible with an act with significant emotional and reproductive overtones? If you're not implying it's bad, then what's your point here?

[Cardiche007]

[quote="shooraijin (post: 1450142)"]So show your cards. Why is it bad to be responsible with an act with significant emotional and reproductive overtones? If you're not implying it's bad, then what's your point here?[/QUOTE

Marriage and the like requires a certain sobriety and acknowledgment that not all the bits of your relationship are sunshine and roses. If you truly want someone, be ready to bleed and sacrifice on their behalf.

Many folk engage more responsibility than they can handle, and in biting more than they can properly chew, only make life miserable for themselves and others. It's a sad, ugly truth.

I admire folk who can commit as good as their word.

[Nate]

I kind of want to debate your points but I'm not sure what your points are.

[airichan623]

I think sometimes it's not just virgins who get this kind of treatment. It's also people who just haven't gone out on dates. Case in point, one of my friends looks a model, but because she never showed any initiative in starting dating relationships. Now she feels like she's not worth it. For girls, its almost worse because if even the creepy desperate guys arent asking you out, then it makes you feel even more unloved. I am in the same boat. I've only had one boyfriend, but that wasnt at all serious.

Society today wants us to believe this sort of crap, including the media. Media does not always reflect society: its usually trying to push angle, and even a small group in charge of media can change a lot of views.

In relation to anime, though, there is one example of getting laid being bad for the main character: Gundam Seed.
[spoiler]Kira has sex with Flay, but mostly because she used him completely for her own ends in her twisted way. He was already broken down, and she seduced him in his moment of total weakness. And after she was dead, due to what they did, he can't forget her.
but on the bright side, he ended up with the Princess of Purity, Lacus, who loves him for all the right reasons, and doesnt force the physical part of the relationship.[/spoiler]

[bkilbour]

um... boy, there sure is a caustic feeling in the horizon, isn't there?
Careful! We might have the same darn situation when topazraven made a similar thread, and this is how it went.

(Christian who advocates waiting for marriage, who happens to say fornication is a sin);
"It's a sin: go read it in the Bible. I want to save myself for marriage, and that's A-OK."

(Soft-Christian who has a mixed opinion);
"Well, I don't think it's necessarily a sin, but there sure is a lot of sin in doing that kind of thing too much. I'm personally saving myself for marriage - unless that one loving someone shows up."

(Person who probably hates Christianity, but never comes out and says it);
"I oppose everything you all are saying. All of these notions are incredibly uneducated and ignorant. Strict and moralistic people are stupid. I'm not going to voice anything but a contrarian opinion, and use fallacious reasoning to defend what I am likely practicing, but never confess outright. Prepare to get angry and feel small."

Now see, personally, whenever I hear Jesus say that looking at a woman with lust for her is adultery in my heart, then it must mean that adultery is a LOT MORE BROAD of a sin than just sleeping with someone other than your spouse. In fact, that means that all sexual sin is really a form of adultery; Christ gave the true definition of the term.
And if looking at a woman lustfully is a sin.... then sleeping with her outside of marriage is definitely a sin. So I'll keep my virginity until I'm married, thank you very much.

Sorry, my DA compadres... I'm just starting to see this kind of thread as all too predictable and frustrating.

Now... as for the ridicule and expectancy of those who are not virgins towards those who are, it's easy. People will be people. Many feel bad about what they are doing, but it's not so bad if others are doing it. Others simply want you to quit "acting like a kid." Some really just want you to not have any purity or innocence. It all depends - pick your poison.

[Nate]

whenever I hear Jesus say that looking at a woman with lust for her is adultery in my heart, then it must mean that adultery is a LOT MORE BROAD of a sin than just sleeping with someone other than your spouse

But the things Jesus said weren't meant to be taken at face value most of the time. Take, for example, these verses:

If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Now, we all know that our foot doesn't cause us to sin. Our eye doesn't either. Nor does our hand. Sin comes from the heart. It doesn't come from other body parts. So why would Jesus say to cut off our feet and hands and gouge out our eyes if sin doesn't come from those places?

Simple. Because He wasn't to be taken at face value. The message Jesus was saying here is "Sin is so bad that you should be willing to do anything, absolutely anything, to flee from it or get rid of it. Sin is so bad you should be willing to lose body parts rather than do it." He wasn't really saying to maim or mutilate ourselves.

Same as when Jesus said, "I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." Jesus wasn't saying to be cannibals and eat Him. Taking that sentence at face value would be severely misinterpreting it. He meant something different than what He was actually saying.

So while it's not my place to say if Jesus really meant staring at a woman lustfully was really adultery, I don't think that's the only possible interpretation of that verse. I mean, if I say "I hate you" to someone the police don't rush in and say "You're under arrest for murder!" But Jesus said that hating someone was the same as murder. But "hating a person" is not the real definition of murder, now is it?

To use a phrase I've become intimately familiar with, "It's more complicated than that."