Virginity seen as bad!?

[Fish and Chips]

I can't speak for women, but I know us guys have a couple things going for us. Simply, sex is something we want (Ishouldn'thavetoexplainthistoyou), and you either have it or you don't. Men tend to be the more competitive and aggressive gender, so a man whose had it is seen as a conqueror, a victor, a "Winner" if you will, whereas if a man who hasn't is a "Loser." Of course, there are many different standards and degrees of winning, but only one measure for losing, so losers are typically either guys who've deliberately held back "Saving themselves," or luckless strikeouts who "Can't get any." Both can be pretty easily provoked since, whichever one you are, the longer you are, the less luck you've had with women, and the less time you have to suddenly get lucky.

Mix in regular sexual denial, frustration, and loneliness, and a lot of guys are basically time bombs.

This is why I like anime and video games.They never do this in those things.

[Dante]

No one has ever really picked on me for being a virgin, but then again, I never really talk to people about it - it's not really that big of deal, it's just a personal life-style decision of mine. But yeah, it's just not a topic that comes up for me *shrugs shoulders*. I have heard of what you're talking about though and have seen some fairly minor teasing about my lack of sexual activity (nothing meant to harm though, just playful teasing - that is, I can look back on it with a smile).

As a hypothesis though, I suppose this must be more common as an interaction between young people, perhaps because they're discovering their sexuality more as they enter that age. Consequently, as they discover these feelings, they start to look for a socially acceptable way of expressing themselves and describing their new experience (after all, it's a pretty darn big deal when it starts to kick in). Unfortunately, we are in the clash between a Puritanical Heritage and a major "sexual revolution", resulting in a society that presents youths with a very conflicting and outright immature view of sex.

Think about it. The morals police are going around declaring all sexuality evil, and describing any thoughts or feelings that are bound to happen to a human animal as the work of the devil; while the sexual revolutionists are screaming free love and jumping in bed with every person they can meet, as though they were on some kind crusade for sex. When you combine these two, you have a very immature viewpoint on the subject - with only two presented extremes. I probably wouldn't be too far off in saying that a good number of young people, after being given an awkward discussion with their parents, learned majority of their knowledge from (a website who's name shall not be spoken). And that should be considered a problem.

But when you view it from this perspective, you can start to realize why social conversations with your peers about this topic are rather immature. When society doesn't provide a mature and realistic role-model for these topics, we provide no path for youths to follow. In non-religious circles, it's more likely to fall in favor of the sexual revolutionists simply because it feels good and so it is favored by simple behaviorism, it's positive feedback. But the religious circles have their own version, you know what I mean, the people who go around calling people names because they have had sex. Here it's also enforced by Behavorism, as they tell people they are practically going to Hell for doing it and ostracize them from the group, it's negative feedback.

Both of these approaches are outright wrong because they hurt the people they're directed at and they continue to perpetrate immature thinking on a subject that should just be a natural part of our humanity. If we can't be provided with a mature idea for the subject, it will ultimately be up to us to invent one to pass on, and name-calling doesn't help anyone in achieving this. It only hurts everyone. Sex is a part of humanity, it's not going away unless we go away, no sex, no people, and it really needs to be treated in a more mature manner.

[armeck]

dang you jersey shore....

win...

Mix in regular sexual denial, frustration, and loneliness, and a lot of guys are basically time bombs.

crap

[LadyRushia]

The whole "What's wrong with me?" thing is also true for us ladies who just don't get male attention like ever. I think for women there might be less pressure to lose our virginity (we have a lot more to lose, quite frankly and there's the whole double-standard thing of women who do lose their virginity being trashy), but I would say we feel a lot of the same frustrations as men although the sources might be a little different.

I've been there, done that with the whole feeling undesirable thing, and over the years I've had to make sense of the fact that I'm not physically unattractive and have a good personality yet guys just don't get crushes on me. That or I'm really really bad at noticing these things (which seems to be the case sometimes). Like others have said, I don't think the media creates or perpetuates these attitudes/ideas. It just reflects how we already see ourselves. I don't feel inadequate because I watched some TV show or movie about super hawt ladies getting awesome boyfriends. I feel that way because of my own life experiences. All stories, media included, are based on real life experiences. That's why they reflect instead of or before they create.

[Nate]

the whole double-standard thing of women who do lose their virginity being trashy

I said it in the last thread, and though I don't believe it, I feel it necessary to post it again.

If a key can open many locks, it's a master key.

If a lock can be opened by many keys, it's a crappy lock. :p

I've had to make sense of the fact that I'm not physically unattractive and have a good personality yet guys just don't get crushes on me

While you're definitely attractive, I think often times we as guys are greedy. Often guys will look at a girl and think she's nice looking and all but that isn't going to make other guys jealous. We want a girl that makes other guys stop and go "MAN I wish she was MY girl!" We want a crazy hot supermodel.

By the way, this isn't limited to non-Christian thought. I remember seeing a trailer for a terrible, awful, HORRENDOUS Christmas movie and one of the scenes was where the good Christian father was talking to his son about his high school rival and the son asks "What did you two fight over?" and he replies "Football, basketball, mom," then pauses for a second and says "I won that one" and flexes his muscles.

If only that was the worst scene in the movie.

[raider~joseph]

Oh God i saw that movie!Thanks for bringing it up.XP But seriously.I don't care if people make fun of me for being a virgin im not sure about the no woman would want me thing because it never crossed my mind.

And yes people DO get influenced by jersey shore fortunatly us Jedi are immune to such mind control.

Thats right kids if your don't watch jersey shore your a jedi!All more the reason to NOT watch that show.

[Okami]

God has made it clear in my mind that another's opinion of my sexual choices does not matter. I have had shortcomings in the past because of addiction and habit, but I have ultimately overcome, and I recognize both as being extremely important for where I am today. I thank God daily for both the past and the strength to overcome it, and for my sexuality - that drive is so powerful when it comes to just a general connection to others.

Sounds like it's time to prepare my next post in my testimony thread, since this can tie right into what God is doing in my life.

[Sheenar]

The whole "What's wrong with me?" thing is also true for us ladies who just don't get male attention like ever. I think for women there might be less pressure to lose our virginity (we have a lot more to lose, quite frankly and there's the whole double-standard thing of women who do lose their virginity being trashy), but I would say we feel a lot of the same frustrations as men although the sources might be a little different.

I've been there, done that with the whole feeling undesirable thing, and over the years I've had to make sense of the fact that I'm not physically unattractive and have a good personality yet guys just don't get crushes on me. That or I'm really really bad at noticing these things (which seems to be the case sometimes). Like others have said, I don't think the media creates or perpetuates these attitudes/ideas. It just reflects how we already see ourselves. I don't feel inadequate because I watched some TV show or movie about super hawt ladies getting awesome boyfriends. I feel that way because of my own life experiences. All stories, media included, are based on real life experiences. That's why they reflect instead of or before they create.

I'm in the same boat, friend.

It's frustrating at times, yes. But I'm still holding out hope that the right man, who is someone I can trust, will come along. I'm not actively looking at this time, b/c I've got too much else going on to worry too much about it. Though I do have a couple of prospects in my life right now...

Virginity isn't a bad thing. I am so glad that I have not been through the heartaches many of my friends have in this area. Though there is restoration for those who have lost their virginity.

[Atria35]

I'm thirding Yamamaya's and Rushia's and Nate's discussion/explanations.

[Yamamaya]

The whole "What's wrong with me?" thing is also true for us ladies who just don't get male attention like ever. I think for women there might be less pressure to lose our virginity (we have a lot more to lose, quite frankly and there's the whole double-standard thing of women who do lose their virginity being trashy), but I would say we feel a lot of the same frustrations as men although the sources might be a little different.

I've been there, done that with the whole feeling undesirable thing, and over the years I've had to make sense of the fact that I'm not physically unattractive and have a good personality yet guys just don't get crushes on me. That or I'm really really bad at noticing these things (which seems to be the case sometimes). Like others have said, I don't think the media creates or perpetuates these attitudes/ideas. It just reflects how we already see ourselves. I don't feel inadequate because I watched some TV show or movie about super hawt ladies getting awesome boyfriends. I feel that way because of my own life experiences. All stories, media included, are based on real life experiences. That's why they reflect instead of or before they create.

Yes this is definitely true. Boys will be boys, but girls must stay pure. (I recall reading as much in a history book's section about how Victorians viewed women). It's a bit silly as it assumes that guys are the only ones who want sex in the first place. A woman who aggressively seeks sex is seen as a slut while a guy who does the same thing(and gets it) is considered a stud. Both are aiming for the same thing, but one gets vindicated while the other is praised.

I'm glad to hear you have strong sense of self esteem.

Mix in regular sexual denial, frustration, and loneliness, and a lot of guys are basically time bombs.

Best description of it ever. I remember hearing a theory once that the reason so many young men become suicide bombers in Islamist countries is because there's a shortage of women and they are promised 72 virgins in the afterlife. Probably not entirely true, but tis possible.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Until several years ago, I thought 'friends with benefits' meant having friends who were on government welfare. Imagine my confusion and embarassment when I found that wasn't the case. I don't consider myself stupid but when it comes to these sort of things, I'm none the wiser.

[Radical Dreamer]

I think that one thing that's important to remember is that it's really never a good idea to blame personal choices on the media (or any person or thing, really). When it comes down to it, a personal choice is exactly that--and the person who made the choice is the one responsible for it, not the show they saw on TV that day, not "The Media," not MTV, etc. If they were influenced by any of the above, then whether or not they allowed it to influence them was still their choice. XD I'd just kind of prefer it if this thread focused less on blaming television shows and movies and politicians and parents, and more on the actual topic of the thread. XD I also think that we would do well to remember that this kind of behavior amongst teenagers has been around for a very long time, and I don't really think viewing history as a "golden era" and the present as "everything is just like Jersey Shore" is going to get us very far. XD

[Atria35]

I also think that we would do well to remember that this kind of behavior amongst teenagers has been around for a very long time, and I don't really think viewing history as a "golden era" and the present as "everything is just like Jersey Shore" is going to get us very far. XD

Very true. My granma remembers her dad complaining about how teens and other lovers parked their carriages by the side of the road and they'd be in the bushes.

He was a lamplighter during the 1890-1920's, so he remembered that sort of stuff.

So it really isn't all the media, and has been happening forever.

[Yamamaya]

Very true. My granma remembers her dad complaining about how teens and other lovers parked their carriages by the side of the road and they'd be in the bushes.

He was a lamplighter during the 1890-1920's, so he remembered that sort of stuff.

So it really isn't all the media, and has been happening forever.

The good ole days tend to be a myth. It's little more than a time when big issues were kept hidden under the surface, thus the time period is viewed through a nostalgia filter.

[Nate]

I don't really think viewing history as a "golden era" and the present as "everything is just like Jersey Shore" is going to get us very far. XD

This video is very relevant:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-january-5-2010/even-better-than-the-real-thing

For those who don't want to watch the video or can't, it's a segment from The Daily Show where John Oliver tries to find the mythological "golden age" where everything in America was perfect. He interviews many people who all tell him about the horrible things going on in each decade of the 1900s, and wonders where the "America we lost" actually was.

Until he suddenly realizes, it isn't a time period. It's just that they were children, and when you're a child, the world is a simple place, a happy place, because you don't know any better.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Exactly, even old movies and TV series often had lots of sexual dialogue and situations it was just done in a more subtle manner due to censorship. Think of all the euphemisms and double entendres they had. Humans have always been sex-crazy and immoral. It's just that nowadays, the media (and other things) have unearthed what's really happening.

[Radical Dreamer]

This video is very relevant:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...the-real-thing

Not gonna lie, that video was totally in my head the entire time I was thinking about that post I was making. XDD

[TopazRaven]

The whole "What's wrong with me?" thing is also true for us ladies who just don't get male attention like ever. I think for women there might be less pressure to lose our virginity (we have a lot more to lose, quite frankly and there's the whole double-standard thing of women who do lose their virginity being trashy), but I would say we feel a lot of the same frustrations as men although the sources might be a little different.

I've been there, done that with the whole feeling undesirable thing, and over the years I've had to make sense of the fact that I'm not physically unattractive and have a good personality yet guys just don't get crushes on me. That or I'm really really bad at noticing these things (which seems to be the case sometimes). Like others have said, I don't think the media creates or perpetuates these attitudes/ideas. It just reflects how we already see ourselves. I don't feel inadequate because I watched some TV show or movie about super hawt ladies getting awesome boyfriends. I feel that way because of my own life experiences. All stories, media included, are based on real life experiences. That's why they reflect instead of or before they create.

Heh, gotta agree with that! Except I'm really not attractive and I don't have a good personality to fall back on so I'm out of luck. Oh well...in least I'll always have my cats for company!

[Htom Sirveaux]

I am not at all embarrassed to admit to someone I'm a virgin. There are two perfectly sound and logical reasons why I choose abstinence.

One: Sex is dangerous. There is no guaranteed "safety". Contraceptives can fail, and furthermore are not actually intended to prevent STDs. There's always a risk.

Two: Even if I don't end up being a daddy or getting an itchy disease, I've just forfeited all the meaning that's supposed to go with sex. It's supposed to be the ultimate expression of love and trust and intimacy. I think only my wife should have that.

[Cardiche007]

Truth be told, I suppose there must be a point at which virginity can no longer be considered good or commendable. I am not saying the media has it right. By means!

Only that the number of virgins tends to bell curve exponentially downward as I get older. The number of 'unlucky ones' begin to disappear. They get laid. Whether in marriage, in a bar, or in a committed relationship the virgins are disappearing like doves in a rainy sky. And even the contemptible 'lays' are no longer contemptible for the unstudied adult. I won't say it has anything to do with Jesus' command to "be fruitful and multiply" although that does come to mind--only that nature (via God) endowed Man with reproductive powers, and so is it then natural for Man to despise other Men unable to do as created? At least may it the unfruitful branch be rightly contemptible and unintelligible to the fruitful one? Isn't that another way of looking at it?
I say all this merely as an alternate route of understanding. Maybe God is even suggesting there is something useful behind what the media says, albeit the media has greatly distorted the message. Nor should you chide your neighbor for being unlucky as media/celebrity stars often do.

[Midori]

I prefer to think of marriage as what is desirable as you get older, not sex. So the push should not be against being a virgin, it should be against being single.

Also, I know that there are plenty of ways to be fruitful despite being single. Humans have much more to pass on besides their genes.

[Radical Dreamer]

Truth be told, I suppose there must be a point at which virginity can no longer be considered good or commendable. I am not saying the media has it right. By means!

Only that the number of virgins tends to bell curve exponentially downward as I get older. The number of 'unlucky ones' begin to disappear. They get laid. Whether in marriage, in a bar, or in a committed relationship the virgins are disappearing like doves in a rainy sky. And even the contemptible 'lays' are no longer contemptible for the unstudied adult. I won't say it has anything to do with Jesus' command to "be fruitful and multiply" although that does come to mind--only that nature (via God) endowed Man with reproductive powers, and so is it then natural for Man to despise other Men unable to do as created? At least may it the unfruitful branch be rightly contemptible and unintelligible to the fruitful one? Isn't that another way of looking at it?
I say all this merely as an alternate route of understanding. Maybe God is even suggesting there is something useful behind what the media says, albeit the media has greatly distorted the message. Nor should you chide your neighbor for being unlucky as media/celebrity stars often do.

I would say that biologically speaking, you're right--there's a time frame in which it's ideal to be sexually active within a certain context, especially if you want kids, and that's natural. Unfortunately, biology and life don't always match up. XD

What I mean by that is that some people stay single throughout the time when they would otherwise be raising children, often because of circumstances that are out of their control, or because they just prefer being single. I don't think that calls for anyone to be contemptible towards the single, middle-aged person that's still a virgin, though I know that's not what you were saying. XD

[Yamamaya]

Unless you're not big on having kids, like meself.

[TopazRaven]

I personally want to adopts me some children rather then have them.

[mechana2015]

This video is very relevant:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-january-5-2010/even-better-than-the-real-thing

Not gonna lie, that video was totally in my head the entire time I was thinking about that post I was making. XDD

That video is Priceless.

[VizSakuretu]

Dude, here is the thing. What is sad is that us men see sex as a thing that makes us manly, conquerors, champions... but dude, you have to look at it this way, 1. Its more important what God thinks of you. and 2. Let's be honest, if keeping it is weakness, then why in heck is it so hard to keep.

God Bless man, i hope this helps!
VizSakuretu

[LadyRushia]

I'd rather be the aunt to my best friend's kids (we've talked about this before, lol) because I'd get to be awesome and have fun with them, but I'd get to give them back their parents.

I prefer to think of marriage as what is desirable as you get older, not sex. So the push should not be against being a virgin, it should be against being single.

Also, I know that there are plenty of ways to be fruitful despite being single. Humans have much more to pass on besides their genes.

I see your point, and I know you're speaking hypotheticallyish, but I don't think pushing against being single would be a better alternative. That push already exists and it pressures many people into marrying way too soon. Also, it makes people like me who are 20 years old and have never been in a relationship feel like something's wrong with them.

I wrote an article for my school's newspaper this past semester about young marriage. Frankly, I don't think age should even be the issue. "Too young" and "too old" is subjective; what's much better is encouraging smart marriage. Make sure you're both seriously ready and seriously committed, have stuff like finances figured out, make sure you can actually support each other and have a place to stay so you won't end up being just another statistic.

[Nate]

Jesus' command to "be fruitful and multiply"

Jesus didn't command that. God did, and that's only half the commandment. People seem to forget the whole "fill the earth and subdue it" part. Which is, y'know, kind of important when there's only two people on the entire planet. When there's 7 billion, not so much.

so is it then natural for Man to despise other Men unable to do as created?

I'd say no, it isn't natural. And besides, then you'd have to hate on dudes who were naturally sterile through no fault of their own, or dudes who became sterile, or dudes who lost body parts in horrible mutilating accidents. Or women who are barren, or became unable to become pregnant because of a traumatic experience.

At least may it the unfruitful branch be rightly contemptible and unintelligible to the fruitful one?

If this was ancient Israel, then yes. But since it isn't, then no. Otherwise it'd still be mandatory to take your brother's wife as your own wife if he died and they didn't have kids, and you'd be publicly humiliated if you didn't. And she'd spit in your face.

So the push should not be against being a virgin, it should be against being single.

The Mormon church does this quite heavily. If you are a Mormon and you turn 18, you are required to attend singles meetings if you don't have someone you're dating. And if you do have someone you're dating, you have to keep your pastor informed of when you plan to marry that person. And should you happen to break up, it's singles meetings for you again where they'll ask you every week "So what are you doing to find someone? How hard are you looking? Where are you going to meet people? How aggressive are you in talking to the opposite sex?"

A friend of mine who was in the Navy said that guess what? Your pastor and church asking you questions about your dating life all the time gets pretty annoying fast.

[Midori]

[quote="LadyRushia (post: 1449713)"]
I see your point, and I know you're speaking hypotheticallyish, but I don't think pushing against being single would be a better alternative. That push already exists and it pressures many people into marrying way too soon. Also, it makes people like me who are 20 years old and have never been in a relationship feel like something's wrong with them.

I wrote an article for my school's newspaper this past semester about young marriage. Frankly, I don't think age should even be the issue. "Too young" and "too old" is subjective]
Agree mints all around.
Speaking of patience...a few years ago, a friend of my family got married when he was about 50. It was just about the awesomest thing.

[shooraijin]

The Mormon church does this quite heavily.

True, but there are definitely strong cultural and religious reasons for this, the latter much more so than mainstream churches.