Cussing

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I cuss... uh... a fair amount? I guess it can be flavorful.

I don't see anything wrong with it. Sure it can upset people, but why is it upsetting? Who ever decided that "f#ck" is offensive whereas "blanket" is not offensive? How do four random letters put in a certain order suddenly make it bad? I don't think it does. Words have no inherent meaning so I don't think it's a sin to cuss.

However, people can often feel like cuss words are disrespectful. And I think that intentional disrespect of people is often wrong. I think that's the only case that can be made for cussing.

[TGJesusfreak]

[quote="TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1449339)"]Now that the discussion has somewhat shifted to the morality of cursing as such, I will offer up a thought.To be fair, these verses are about the intention behind what you say, rather than words themselves. If I were to call someone a jerk or garbage with anger in my heart, I'd be in violation of Col 3:8 and Eph 4:29]

ooh an excelent point Doc. hmmm that makes my head think about things. I think I actualy agree with you here.

I will say this though, cussing causes me to stumble. because if I cuss when I stub my toe, and I am in the habit of it, I can just as easilly cuss at another person (be it in my head or not). So I refuse to cuss because Cussing will almost ALWAYS seep into my other parts of my life. So for me, cussing makes me stumble.

but yeah, I think you have a very good point here Doc. You kinda changed my mind on things a bit. I wont be stuborn when you have a good point, and you have a great point. *bows low* my cangratulations good sir! XDDD

[Rusty Claymore]

How do four random letters put in a certain order

Four random letters don't. I certanly don't believe "Grrr!" is a curse. As for your example, it is very much NOT a random assortment of letters. It's considered the worst curse of our times because it merits it.

[Nate]

I don't see how being the most grammatically versatile word in the English language "merits it" being the worst word. When did being grammatically versatile become sinful?

[SnoringFrog]

Now that the discussion has somewhat shifted to the morality of cursing as such, I will offer up a thought.To be fair, these verses are about the intention behind what you say, rather than words themselves. If I were to call someone a jerk or garbage with anger in my heart, I'd be in violation of Col 3:8 and Eph 4:29]

I cuss... uh... a fair amount? I guess it can be flavorful.

I don't see anything wrong with it. Sure it can upset people, but why is it upsetting? Who ever decided that "f#ck" is offensive whereas "blanket" is not offensive? How do four random letters put in a certain order suddenly make it bad? I don't think it does. Words have no inherent meaning so I don't think it's a sin to cuss.

However, people can often feel like cuss words are disrespectful. And I think that intentional disrespect of people is often wrong. I think that's the only case that can be made for cussing.

I agree with these posts. In my opinion, words are words, and none of them are wrong or right inherently. Some words tend to be stronger than others, but that doesn't make words intended to be strong wrong. Much as Doc said, it's more about context and intention. Screaming f--- you at someone or eloquently informing them that their existenence on this planet is naught but a waste of oxygen and matter, in my opinion, are equally wrong, as they share the same negative intent.

However, I personally refrain from cursing (to the best of my ability) in most situations. Mainly out of concern for offending others I'm around who don't share my opinions on curse words, or for causing a brother who is convinced they are sinful to stumble. Thus, unless I'm in a group where I know the everyone present shares my opinions, or in very specific instances where a given curse word is really the only fitting term, I won't curse. However, when some words started getting themselves programmed into my head as reactions, I started trying to reprogram my head to default to curses in some other languages. That way, my reactions hold the same weight in my head if I'm caught off-guard, but I'm much less likely to offend anyone I'm with. (I've yet to meet anyone who speaks a word of Serbian).

That said, hearing people curse doesn't bother me much, unless it's being overused or used in a way that pretty much indicates they just don't have the capacity to come up with anything smarter to say and are just using the words as random filler. So crazy amounts of it for no point do bug me, but probably only in the same capacity that any other words used that way would.

[K. Ayato]

My husband and I swear on occasion. We keep it amongst ourselves or when he has a buddy or two over at our place. I don't swear excessively like those who use an expletive every third word within a single sentence. Even so, he and I make sure to keep it out of our speech if we're around kids, some members of my family, and among church friends.

Being able to know when and with whom you can engage in things that fall under the gray category is important.

[Dante]

Once I realized that calling a word "evil" was a rather silly taboo and that curse words were nothing more then meaningless adjectives/nouns/verbs; "curse words" suddenly lost their power. To me, they are nothing more then words and they're not even harmful unless they're aimed at me, in which case they're no worse then any other derogatory phrases. But their use outside of being aimed AT someone causes no harm to anyone, the only reason we react with gawking mouths is because we're monkeying the adults that taught us to gawk in the first place at these words. In the end, if you were to look for a reason "why" these words were "offensive" you'd be left in a blank, because it's only offensive because "everyone says so" and not for any independent reason in and of itself. For instance, if you traveled to a tribe of people that never met an outsider before, you could speak to them in cuss words and they would never find offense.

There are plenty of things offensive to the mind, video games and TV shows showing people killed for meaningless reasons, descriptions of torture and terror, people cutting you off in traffic, commercials, billboards, pop-up-ads... These are offensive to our minds, causing us endless fear, frustration, emotional pain and anxiety. But a word? Come on, we can really move past this as a culture and then maybe we'll move past USING these stupid meaningless words - they're crowding up the dictionary and their only reason for persisting is to add meaningful dialogue to "Of Mice and Men".

For starters, I vote that we replace any expletive used while getting hurt with "itai". It conveys the meaning of "pain" far better then other words that actually mean excrement, sex and dogs... of course, when the TV set slices a hole in your skin for no reason, you may still want to curse it into hell - but God says it's heading there anyways.

[TGJesusfreak]

Four random letters don't. I certanly don't believe "Grrr!" is a curse. As for your example, it is very much NOT a random assortment of letters. It's considered the worst curse of our times because it merits it.

I agree. The question we ave to ask is this: What makes a curse word a curse word?

Well I would say it is the intended meaning. Why do we see the F word as crude? It's just 4 letters!

Why is "God" such an importnant word to us? it's just 3 letters!


See my point? Words have underlying notations that do not depend on what latters are used. Humans CHOOSE what the words mean. if you said the F word back in 700 BC then no one would care! XD It is the words that we CHOOSE to be curse words. That is what makes a curse word. But nonetheless once it has been labeled a curse word it is still a curse word. =/


Someone please debate this with me. XD I would kinda like to find a good concept on what makes a curse word. lol Debates are awefully helpful in making things make sense. XD

(I still stand by my previous post for now however XD)

[ich1990]

As for your example, it is very much NOT a random assortment of letters. It's considered the worst curse of our times because it merits it.

Actually, it is not technically the worst curse of our times (I assume you are talking about the United States, other countries ascribe totally different values and meanings to our profane words). Even a PG-13 movie can contain a couple of F-words. I have yet to see anything below an R rated movie have the C-word and even the most "offensive" movies use just a few times at most.

But besides that point, how does it merit it? I would be interested in hearing your reasoning.

[Nate]

Actually you're completely correct, TG. It's how the word is used.

As I said on the last thread, a** is now a curse word. However, it was not previously. In fact, if you read a King James Version Bible, the word a** is said in it quite a few times. Because it is a word for the animal that is now called a donkey. One of my favorite IRC quotes is the one where a guy goes into a Christian chat room and tricks a Bible verse bot into getting banned because the bot says "Type a verse and version and I'll paste it for you!" So the guy asked for Numbers 22:21, KJV, which says "And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his a**, and went with the princes of Moab," and of course the bot got auto-banned for swearing because it quoted the Bible.

However, usage of the word over time became an insult, and because of this usage of the word as an insult, it turned from an everyday word for an animal into a "bad word." The word itself didn't change, it's still the same word, but it took on a different use and "became" a bad word.

If I said "Piano!" when I stubbed my toe, and other people started doing it repeatedly, and then I said "You piano!" to people, eventually (although it would probably take hundreds or thousands of years) the word "piano" would become a swear word, and the instrument would start to be called something else. Because that's pretty much exactly what happened with a**.

Which is why I maintain it's illogical and ludicrous to say any word has inherent "bad" meaning to it.

[Warrior4Christ]

How do four random letters put in a certain order suddenly make it bad? I don't think it does. Words have no inherent meaning so I don't think it's a sin to cuss.

It would be foolish to not take into account the meaning assigned to a word by culture or tradition. I don't get the feeling that God is an abstract philosopher.

The most common swear words are about bodily functions - which aren't generally public matters... but the words are used publicly, and not even referencing their original meaning.

But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. - Ephesians 5:3-4

Taking a look at the Bible verses again, it would not be a stretch to say that swearing is obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking. Foolish talk doesn't even sound like it has to be offensively directed at anyone. It doesn't say "except in the cases where it's directed at inanimate objects". I guess it also acts to distinguish us from the world.

I don't really like it, but I've gotten used to it. I rarely do it myself. The several-swear-words-per-sentence people can get annoying. And particularly the people who say "Jesus" without referring to Jesus.

[Cardiche007]

If and when I curse, that in itself opens the door for other vices that follow. I try not to compound my iniquity. I try not to curse for any reason at all.

[Yamamaya]

That aside though, I swear like crazy when I'm either (1) angry or (2) frightened.

If you ever watch a horror movie with me, I'm sorry.

Fish and Chips:

Sorry I couldn't resist.

On the topic of cussing, the Bible neither condemns nor supports our modern definition of cussing. It mentions not making oaths, not taking god's name in vain, and not engaging in obscene talk, but nothing about saying words like a**, d##m, etc. etc.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

It would be foolish to not take into account the meaning assigned to a word by culture or tradition. I don't get the feeling that God is an abstract philosopher.

The most common swear words are about bodily functions - which aren't generally public matters... but the words are used publicly, and not even referencing their original meaning.

But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. - Ephesians 5:3-4

Taking a look at the Bible verses again, it would not be a stretch to say that swearing is obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking. Foolish talk doesn't even sound like it has to be offensively directed at anyone. It doesn't say "except in the cases where it's directed at inanimate objects". I guess it also acts to distinguish us from the world.

I don't really like it, but I've gotten used to it. I rarely do it myself. The several-swear-words-per-sentence people can get annoying. And particularly the people who say "Jesus" without referring to Jesus.

So what constitutes as "foolish talk" and "obscenity" according to Paul? Further, for what reason should we, according to Paul, be not allowed to do these things? Is it because it is inherently wrong (or because others may be offended?)

I agree that we should refrain from some things out of respect for others as a moral standard because I believe that respect for persons is what Christ calls for us to do. However I do not believe that the words hold any inherent meaning themselves. So I just can't fully agree with you. I think that it is a mistake to make moral judgments based primarily off of social norms or traditions.

[SnoringFrog]

For starters, I vote that we replace any expletive used while getting hurt with "itai". It conveys the meaning of "pain" far better then other words that actually mean excrement, sex and dogs... of course, when the TV set slices a hole in your skin for no reason, you may still want to curse it into hell - but God says it's heading there anyways.

I might actually go for using "itai", at the moment a couple phrases I use are horribly bastardized versions of Japanese phrases that original meant something to the effect of "I cannot lose" and "It's just another boring night", but by now would be completely unrecognizable from how I've inadvertently changed them over time. So might as well switch to Japanese that actually makes sense, eh?

What I hate most about curse words is how common they've become. Not because they bother me, but because they've become almost entirely devoid of what weight they used to possess. Properly used, at least the way I try to make them work in my speech, their rarity would help convey much more weight with them. That's another reason I make a point of not cursing around people. When they get to know me and know that I don't, then anytime I do carries that much more weight.

[Nate]

horribly bastardized

Oooooooooh you used a bad wooooooooooooord!

I'm kidding by the way. XD

[SnoringFrog]

Oooooooooh you used a bad wooooooooooooord!

I'm kidding by the way. XD

Haha, I figured someone would remark on that. Most useful "bad" word I know by far.

[Zangetsu]

Actually, swearing really doesn't bother me at all, I will swear occasionally and I always prefer a conversation without them, but if a friend or family member swears during a conversation than I see no harm in any way. That being said, I will ask that the language be toned down by the person who is swearing if they're being used every other word.

[TheSubtleDoctor]

I will say this though, cussing causes me to stumble. because if I cuss when I stub my toe, and I am in the habit of it, I can just as easilly cuss at another person (be it in my head or not). So I refuse to cuss because Cussing will almost ALWAYS seep into my other parts of my life. So for me, cussing makes me stumble.

I want to pick up on something here, TG. In addition to the issue of whether or not cursing is objectively right or wrong, one must address the (possibly more important) issue of whether it is subjectively permissible, that is, whether your own conscience is offended by cursing. From personal experience, I know that sometimes you can believe that some action is OK, or even be convinced that you know in your head it is OK, but you still experience guilt feelings over committing said action. As has been said in another thread, feelings are not necessarily a sure guide to reality, but I don't think you should ever deliberately act against your (presumably well formed and well informed) conscience.

[Sheenar]

Actually you're completely correct, TG. It's how the word is used.

As I said on the last thread, a** is now a curse word. However, it was not previously. In fact, if you read a King James Version Bible, the word a** is said in it quite a few times. Because it is a word for the animal that is now called a donkey. One of my favorite IRC quotes is the one where a guy goes into a Christian chat room and tricks a Bible verse bot into getting banned because the bot says "Type a verse and version and I'll paste it for you!" So the guy asked for Numbers 22:21, KJV, which says "And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his a**, and went with the princes of Moab," and of course the bot got auto-banned for swearing because it quoted the Bible.

However, usage of the word over time became an insult, and because of this usage of the word as an insult, it turned from an everyday word for an animal into a "bad word." The word itself didn't change, it's still the same word, but it took on a different use and "became" a bad word.

If I said "Piano!" when I stubbed my toe, and other people started doing it repeatedly, and then I said "You piano!" to people, eventually (although it would probably take hundreds or thousands of years) the word "piano" would become a swear word, and the instrument would start to be called something else. Because that's pretty much exactly what happened with a**.

Which is why I maintain it's illogical and ludicrous to say any word has inherent "bad" meaning to it.

Side note: An a** and a donkey are two separate species of animal (though related).
What's funny though is this:
Equus africanus is the African Wild A**.
Equus asinus is the Donkey.
/end of agriculture/animal science side note.

On topic, I agree that whether cursing is offensive or not depends a lot on the context and how the word is used/directed. For example, my trainer friend will say at a dog show "That is a really nice-looking b****," meaning an intact female dog. But if that same thing was directed toward a person, it would be offensive since, well, women do not really enjoy being called female dogs. We should strive to lift other people up in our speech and actions and not tear them down --so I get convicted when someone cuts me off in traffic/does something reckless and I am in my car calling them a jack***. That is malice/anger in my heart toward that person and it's not right.

I am trying to get out of the habit of cursing as often as I do. I find it distasteful to curse excessively.

[Sapphire225]

I hate cussing, and I very rarely swear (It's probably been years since a swear has come out of my mouth, in my mind however...). However, my roommate swears in almost every sentence. It gets really annoying especially when she's on the phone swearing like a sailor. It is probably because in my home, nobody swears (although I do suspect my little brother swearing at school or around friends). Still, I wish she weremuch more mindful about the people around her, especially young children and elders.

[Hiryu]

I think Spongebob makes an excellent point: We use cussing like sentence enhancers.

Sometimes, people enhance the sentence too much.

Say my brother and I are on the same soccer team, and he scores our winning goal in the last minute of a game. What if I clap my brother on the back and, with a spirit of jubilation exclaim, "H*** of a goal!" or "That was a d*** good shot!" I use "curse" words but I have no anger or malice in my heart (quite the opposite in fact), nor am I tearing anyone down nor taking the Lord's name in vain.

I could see someone saying it almost unconsciously, but I think there are better words you could say. Anyone can say a cuss word.

[TheSubtleDoctor]

I could see someone saying it almost unconsciously, but I think there are better words you could say. Anyone can say a cuss word.

Sure. You are, no doubt, correct.

However, the discussion isn't about whether there exist more eloquent or wittier words to use in various curse-inducing situations, it is about the morality of the act of cursing itself. Thus, I wanted to pluck a couple of everyday-life examples in order to illustrate that cursing in those instances does not run counter to the scriptures TG quoted.

I am by no means saying that one ought to curse in those or similar circumstances, just that doing so might not be a sin, as far as I can see.

[Warrior4Christ]

So what constitutes as "foolish talk" and "obscenity" according to Paul? Further, for what reason should we, according to Paul, be not allowed to do these things? Is it because it is inherently wrong (or because others may be offended?)

I agree that we should refrain from some things out of respect for others as a moral standard because I believe that respect for persons is what Christ calls for us to do. However I do not believe that the words hold any inherent meaning themselves. So I just can't fully agree with you. I think that it is a mistake to make moral judgments based primarily off of social norms or traditions.

Well, good question. It's just that swearing could fairly easily considered an "obscenity" to Paul.
Ultimately, does it matter the reason not to engage in foolish talk, obscenity and foolish joking? Paul gave it as a command for God's holy people - shouldn't that be enough? In heaven - "yeah, sorry God, I didn't follow rules D and F because I didn't think you gave a satisfactory reason...". As I said before, it's possibly to distinguish God's people from the rest. And I'm guessing it's not just because others might find it offensive... which would leave that it's inherently wrong... but I'm kind of speculating here.

[Winry]

Cussing doesn't bother me much, except taking the Lord's name in vain. I don't generally do it as a choice and it's never become a habit for me. I already feel guilty enough when my little nieces start saying "dang it" when they've been around me because I tend to say that a lot, and I wouldn't want to be the one to accidentally teach them anything worse! But, to answer the question of the thread, people cussing doesn't offend me.

[Doubleshadow]

I doesn't phase me at all, which is not a good thing because I've started without even realizing it. Any idiot can cuss, it takes some effort to communicate intelligently. Also, it taps into a primitive part of the brain, and prefer to use my higher functions when possible.

[KeybladeWarrior]

I don't mind cursing much at all. I do mind a bit when the f-bomb is every other other or when people refer to good things as s***. I curse often especially when in anger.

[Sparx00]

Honestly, I don't know why people feel the need to curse. I mean I can see why they would curse if they hit a person while driving. I wouldn't blame them at all for yelling out "D word!" or even "S word!", but what I don't really get is why they would want to use swear words in every other sentence. Like, "That *blank* was off the *blank* Chain!"

I don't get it. It doesn't make the sentence any more special then if I were to say, "That was off the chain!" The swears are just there for the sake of it most of the time. If the words were kept in context and not used for insults, then they actually wouldn't be swear words. The reason swear words are what they are is because they were taken out of context and used to insult people.

Example of an insult: By saying "D*** you!" to a person, you are actually condemning that person to suffer eternal punishment in hell (as the dictionary put it). A word not to be used lightly in my opinion. Beside the fact, insulting somebody is something that we should never do. All it does is cause bitterness and division.

Example of an out of context: By saying something like, "That s*** was awesome!" You are actually saying that what the person did/what you ate/what happened etc, was poop. But it was still awesome. How does that work exactly??? Last time I checked, awesome and poop don't go together. What if somebody came up to you and said "That was some awesome poop you just pulled." right after you did something of notice? I wouldn't know wether to take it as a compliment or an insult.

Anyways, you guys know my view on the whole thing. Basically, I don't mind the words as long as they're kept in context. But when they're taken out of context and/or used as an insult, then that's where the word becomes not okay to use. Saying "You're poop." to somebody would be no different then insulting them with any other curse word.

[SnoringFrog]

How does that work exactly??? Last time I checked, awesome and poop don't go together.

Oh would my roomate have some stories to tell you that would run very contrary to that...

[Yuki-Anne]

For starters, I vote that we replace any expletive used while getting hurt with "itai". It conveys the meaning of "pain" far better then other words that actually mean excrement, sex and dogs...

Already there.

I don't cuss most of the time because I don't think I'm glorifying God when I cuss. Not because I think it's wrong, but because others do. Also, I try to be as classy as possible most of the time, and classiness usually doesn't go hand in hand with cussiness. However, I will on occasion swear a cuss myself if I find the nuance of meaning I want to convey just won't do with any word other than a swear word. Also, if I'm among the right people and it's going to be hilarious.