the sad reality of porn stars

[Nate]

I wouldn't consider that "porn".

But how is it not? It's a video of two people having sex. That's kind of what porn is (well, ONE of the things porn can be).

(Though why they'd wanna sit there and watch themselves have sex when they could just have sex, I don't quite get.)

Dude people are into some weird stuff. XD Trust me that's the least of weird kinks that humans have.

Now I'm reminded of that episode of Simpsons. "Troy McClure? I thought you said he was dead." "No, I said he sleeps with the fishes. You see-" "Aw, Tony, I just had lunch!"

It is certainly demonic, I have no doubt of that.

This is the problem though, is I have given an example of pornography that harms no one and is only used within the confines of marriage, and your only defense was "Well that isn't porn." But how is it not? You can't just change the definition because you found a type that was acceptable. This is the problem. The platypus is a mammal that lays eggs but you can't just say "Oh it's not a mammal, because it lays eggs, that means it can't be one."

Yamamaya, while I completely agree with you, that's the kind of thing I was trying to avoid saying publicly and wanted to keep to PM. XD As you can tell by many of the posts here, while perhaps not all porn is harmful, a lot of it is, and as you stated, keeping people safe trumps rights at times. Some people here feel outlawing porn entirely would be the best way to keep people safe. I disagree, but your argument isn't really going to change people's minds on here is what I'm saying.

The biggest problem is your statement, "Freedom of expression does not give one the right to break laws." That sounds nice in theory, but remember the only reason porn isn't breaking the law is because it isn't illegal. That sounds like a "no duh" statement but what I'm saying is, imagine if porn had always been illegal in this country. Imagine people were trying to make it legal. The counter would be the statement you just said, "Freedom of expression does not give one the right to break laws."

While I obviously don't think that's a correct argument, that's beside the point. I just think we don't need to turn this into a debate on what freedom of expression really is and what constitutes expression and whether or not anything harmful should be banned. That would get pretty ugly.

[TGJesusfreak]

Porn has connotations of sexual immorality (ie. sin), so I would argue that Song of Solomon/Songs would not be porn, but a more pure form of erotic poetry.
The Bible say to flee from sexual immorality and to let there not be a hint of immorality among you. On the other hand, alcohol consumption is shown in the Bible without any condemnation, but of course excessive alcohol consumption is condemned. It doesn't say "Let there not be a trace of alcohol among you". So I would argue that they aren't equivalent.

^Exactly

Porn is evil by the nature of it and there should be sanctions against it.

I agree... but I just dont know if banning it would fix it... just like with pot, it didnt work to ban it. people still persue it........ however there may not be as many addicts as their would have been. =/.

I think it would be a good idea to ban it in some respects. It helps keep the minds pure of kids if we ban it in at least some way, make it harder to persue such an evil addiction. Cause what percent of young teens get into this kinda stuff? I did and I was 12!

I was a homeschooled kid away from all of the other stuff yet I STILL fell into this trap because I could access it so easilly! It made my life terrible. I lived a life of sin and I lost faith in myself and my abilities, I thought I was ugly and no one could love a perverted person like me. and I also beleived the biggest lie of all:
that I wasnt worth it

so I know from first hand experience on what the evils of porn can do to a human being. Anyone who tells me "you just dont understand it" is DEAD WRONG. and for anyone to tell me that it isnt a sin make me so frustrated because of what I went through. It became my God and Jesus was no longer my God. Sin became my god. =(

but yeah. I just have a lot of emotion tied into this and i get worked up a lot about this because of what it did to my life.

[Winry]

This is the problem though, is I have given an example of pornography that harms no one and is only used within the confines of marriage, and your only defense was "Well that isn't porn." But how is it not? You can't just change the definition because you found a type that was acceptable. This is the problem. The platypus is a mammal that lays eggs but you can't just say "Oh it's not a mammal, because it lays eggs, that means it can't be one."

I doubt the husband and wife that made that video tape would call it porn. What I'm saying is while maybe the technical Webster's definition of pornography may encompass that, it is not how the word is really used today. When people think porn, they think the industry... at least that's my opinion.

[Midori]

Definitions. When people argue over definitions of words thinking that they're arguing about spiritual truth, well, that's when bad things happen. So let's try to avoid that.

I could lock this thread under the basis that it's politics ("Should porn be illegal"), but let's keep it open in case people want to discuss less political topics.

[TopazRaven]

^Exactly


I agree... but I just dont know if banning it would fix it... just like with pot, it didnt work to ban it. people still persue it........ however there may not be as many addicts as their would have been. =/.

I think it would be a good idea to ban it in some respects. It helps keep the minds pure of kids if we ban it in at least some way, make it harder to persue such an evil addiction. Cause what percent of young teens get into this kinda stuff? I did and I was 12!

I was a homeschooled kid away from all of the other stuff yet I STILL fell into this trap because I could access it so easilly! It made my life terrible. I lived a life of sin and I lost faith in myself and my abilities, I thought I was ugly and no one could love a perverted person like me. and I also beleived the biggest lie of all:
that I wasnt worth it

so I know from first hand experience on what the evils of porn can do to a human being. Anyone who tells me "you just dont understand it" is DEAD WRONG. and for anyone to tell me that it isnt a sin make me so frustrated because of what I went through. It became my God and Jesus was no longer my God. Sin became my god. =(

but yeah. I just have a lot of emotion tied into this and i get worked up a lot about this because of what it did to my life.

This right here is another reason why I'm agianst the porn industry. Wither it is a sin or not, it can still destroy lives and families. When I was 12 do you know how many times I would come across a porn site on accident? Even with child saftey locks on the computer! If anything I really wish we could in least get this stuff off the Internet.

[Atria35]

This right here is another reason why I'm agianst the porn industry. Wither it is a sin or not, it can still destroy lives and families. When I was 12 do you know how many times I would come across a porn site on accident? Even with child saftey locks on the computer! If anything I really wish we could in least get this stuff off the Internet.

So do guns. And liquor. If you ban one for the reason it ruins lives and families, you have to ban them all.

[TopazRaven]

I didn't say it had to be banned, I said I wish we could in least keep the stuff off the Internet so an innocent child doesn't have the misfortune of coming across something like that.

[Htom Sirveaux]

I sympathize with TG's post, Nate. And I would add that it's easy to defend the porn industry when you haven't been personally damaged by it. It's not like alcohol. God knows, I love a good brew. Porn isn't the sort of thing that can be openly enjoyed in moderation like that. It only perverts, destroys and kills. For example, what if the hypothetical couple splits up, and one of them posts the video online to get revenge on the other?
We must always question the circumstances. Remember, all we have to go on is what the camera tells us, and the camera is a habitual liar. On one end of the lens or the other, in time before, now or later, somebody is being destroyed from the inside out.

I would respond to your previous post, but Midori already called a halt to the disputing of definitions.

[Nate]

And I would add that it's easy to defend the porn industry when you haven't been personally damaged by it. It's not like alcohol.

Ah ha, but see, you're doing the same thing. It's easy to defend the alcohol industry when YOU haven't been personally damaged by it.

I knew a guy in the Navy whose father was an alcoholic. Alcoholism isn't just a person who really likes to drink and just happens to drink so much because he likes it. Alcoholism is an addiction. Alcoholics cannot drink in moderation. An alcoholic can't just say "Well I'll have two beers and then stop drinking."

Alcoholism is very real and dangerous and my friend was scared to even touch a beer for fear that he would become abusive and destructive like his father was. He couldn't believe that anyone would willingly choose to drink alcohol because he had seen firsthand how it can destroy families and lives. There are still people who support the banning of alcohol even for non-religious reasons (my friend was an agnostic).

On one end of the lens or the other, in time before, now or later, somebody is being destroyed from the inside out.

And again, I completely disagree.

[Htom Sirveaux]

[Quote=Nate]Ah ha, but see, you're doing the same thing. It's easy to defend the alcohol industry when YOU haven't been personally damaged by it.[/quote]
I considered that argument as I wrote it, but no. It's not the same thing. You seem to be ignoring the rest of my post that went along with that bit. Let me reiterate:

Alcohol can be addictive, yes. But when used in careful moderation, it's harmless. Even beneficial, it's good exercise for your liver.
Porn does much more harm than good. I've never heard of anyone indulging in it repeatedly on a casual basis, without developing an addiction.

If I go to the pub with my dad one day after work, we're gonna enjoy a good dinner and a pint, and good conversation. Furthermore, my mom would be happy for us. If I go to a "gentlemen's" club with my dad one day after work, there's something wrong here and I'm sure you can guess what a wife/mother would think of that. If you wouldn't want someone you love to know you're doing something, you shouldn't do it.

[Nate]

My counter to that would be that if you watch porn, you're really only harming yourself assuming you're not married. With alcohol, you can injure or kill other people. You can say "in moderation" but there have been people who said "Oh I just had a couple of beers, I'm okay to drive." And boom, someone gets run over, run into, scarred or dead. Say what you will about porn, I'm not saying it's totally 100% okay, but alcohol is far more dangerous than porn could ever hope to be. You can't make special exceptions for alcohol just because you like it.

[Lynna]

My counter to that would be that if you watch porn, you're really only harming yourself assuming you're not married. With alcohol, you can injure or kill other people. You can say "in moderation" but there have been people who said "Oh I just had a couple of beers, I'm okay to drive." And boom, someone gets run over, run into, scarred or dead. Say what you will about porn, I'm not saying it's totally 100% okay, but alcohol is far more dangerous than porn could ever hope to be. You can't make special exceptions for alcohol just because you like it.

Ummm...I have to admit I don't remmember the source for this. But I read about a guy whose addiction to porn caused him to attempt to rape someone. Then That would mean Porn does harm people even if the person isn't married.

[Htom Sirveaux]

You're wrong. I'm right. Nyaaah.

Dude, I'm not gonna keep doing this, trying to explain every little thing I say and creating more little opportunities for you to jump in with one flimsy counterpoint after another. Times like this I strongly suspect you just enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing. So I'm gonna stop arguing because I'm bored with it, and you'll no doubt sit there with a self-satisfied grin because you "won".

[Nate]

But I read about a guy whose addiction to porn caused him to attempt to rape someone. Then That would mean Porn does harm people even if the person isn't married.

I read about a couple of kids who played violent video games and that caused them to shoot up their school.

I read about a person who read the Bible and they burned someone at the stake for witchcraft.

Porn doesn't make people rape someone else, any more than violent video games make someone shoot someone else, or the Bible makes someone kill someone else. Alcohol, however, DOES make people unable to drive effectively or safely. Alcohol DOES cloud and inhibit judgment. People can be affected by violent games and porn and books, but not to the degree alcohol and drugs can affect them.

flimsy counterpoint

Saying that drunk driving kills and injures people and watching porn doesn't is "flimsy?" Tell you what. When you can show me that porn killed more than 10,839 people, I'll accept that I'm wrong (that's how many people were killed in drunk driving accidents in 2009 by the way).

Times like this I strongly suspect you just enjoy arguing for the sake of arguing.

No, I'm arguing because you're wrong, and I'm trying to use facts to educate you in the hopes that you will see this. If someone says "The sky is purple" I would argue with them just as heavily, not because I "enjoy" it but because they're clearly misinformed. They can still sit there and go "Nope it's purple. Sorry, but your assertion that it is blue is a flimsy counterpoint. No, that color chart you're showing me is completely bogus, not going to believe it." But I'm certainly going to at least try to show them they're wrong. If they don't listen, hey, their fault, but I'm not going to sit back and let misinformation go unchallenged.

[goldenspines]

It seems this thread has drifted into the area we warned you away from in the beginning. And since it seems like the original topic has been thoroughly discussed as well, I'm closing it up.

If you wish to continue this line of discussion, feel free to take it to PM.