Superman: Awesome superhero or Gary Stu?

[Seto_Sora]

If you read Superman comics how come you know absolutely nothing about him then?

Dude, don't take it seriously, not everyone is going to like the same superhero. And, in the end, everyone is a critic. I am sure the writers of Superman are proud of their stories and hero. As there are many many fans of him. I don't get it, I don't like him. That comes from an amateur writer, and there are probably alot of things I don't know and am still learning. But I will never have respect for Superman. And that is just my opinion. I can respect your opinion Nate that you like him and that it differs from mine. So don't let it bug ya, man. ^_^

SDG

[Nate]

Awesome, you're admitting you know nothing about Superman by not even bothering to respond. Now let us people who actually know the character discuss him, hmm?

[Seto_Sora]

Awesome, you're admitting you know nothing about Superman by not even bothering to respond. Now let us people who actually know the character discuss him, hmm?

LOL I am not sure if you read the change to my previous post. But here, I'll just smile ^_^

[Nate]

Oh, I didn't see the edit. My bad!

But it matters little. You still know nothing about Superman and have clearly never read a comic of his in your life. Or even seen the cartoons. And that's fine! If you don't want to see the cartoons or read the comics, hey, I'm not going to complain. If you have no interest, that's cool! Kind of like how I have no interest in say, True Grit, despite people saying how good it is.

What irritates me is that you clearly know nothing about Superman and still feel like you need to post in this thread. Now, there are people in this thread that have read or watched Superman and didn't get it, but at least they are familiar with him. That's the point I'm making. I don't go in the Manga of the Month thread and post about those manga because I've never read them. My posts would be meaningless. That's the point I'm making.

[Seto_Sora]

What irritates me is that you clearly know nothing about Superman and still feel like you need to post in this thread. Now, there are people in this thread that have read or watched Superman and didn't get it, but at least they are familiar with him. That's the point I'm making. I don't go in the Manga of the Month thread and post about those manga because I've never read them. My posts would be meaningless. That's the point I'm making.

And that is an understandable irritation. And I am sorry if I didn't qualify myself before posting. But, yes, I have read a few of Superman's comics. I have watched many of his cartoons, and followed his history. It is to say, I have read and seen enough of Superman that I know he is a character I don't like nor do I wish to write one such.
However, I thought the was a simple pole and a request as to explain why one voted one way. I couldn't vote and leave my reason blank. ^_^ But Superman really is so boring that arguing about him holds little of my interest. ^_^ So have fun in y'alls discussion.

[Nate]

But Superman really is so boring

I guess what they say is true. You can't save people from themselves.

I also maintain that everything you say only proves you are lying that you have ever seen a Superman cartoon or read one of his comics...or that if you did, you clearly suffer from Alzheimer's and don't remember them.

[rocklobster]

Seconded, Nate. If Superman is such a boring character, why has he lasted so long?

[Nate]

Well it's not just that, it's that Superman has repeatedly fought either fantastically powerful villains such as Darkseid and Doomsday (among others) or intelligent cunning villains like Lex Luthor and Brainiac. These fights either test Superman's strength or skill. There is almost no Superman story where a bad guy goes "I will take over the world!" and Superman punches him and that's the end. The writers know if Superman was always dominant in his fights, he'd be boring.

That's why they don't write him as always dominant. And even beyond the fighting (which is interesting) he's interesting as a character. He's an embodiment of good in humanity. He thinks of himself as human. He's not like Batman. Batman is Batman who sometimes dresses like Bruce Wayne. Superman is Clark Kent who sometimes dresses as Superman.

It also depends on which comics and cartoons you're watching, too. If you're watching the old Max Fleischer Superman cartoons and the Silver Age Superman comics where he played baseball against Batman and Robin, then yeah, he's going to seem boring and uninteresting.

But how anyone could see the current comics and the Superman DCUA cartoon and say Superman is BORING? That's the equivalent of going to see a Michael Bay film and saying "There was too much story and not enough explosions." It's like, were you even paying attention or what?

[Seto_Sora]

LOL whatever Nate, I don't need to prove to you whether I've seen or read Superman or not. LOL Your being so silly! XD Anyway, you have fun! ^_^

[Fish and Chips]

Dude, don't take it seriously, not everyone is going to like the same superhero. And, in the end, everyone is a critic. I am sure the writers of Superman are proud of their stories and hero. As there are many many fans of him. I don't get it, I don't like him.

Hey man, sometimes that's just how it is. Different strokes for different fo-

But I will never have respect for Superman.

<modsnip: pic removed. See the oft-cited Respect thread.>

[Rusty Claymore]

Hey folks, just as an "outside looking in" POV: Superman's fans here are not behaving like very nice people, and that would lead folks to wondering what kinda dude he is that all his fans are, well, rude.

[Nate]

Which is preferable, to be polite or to be correct? :p

[Radical Dreamer]

I'm gonna go with being polite on that one. Let's keep this civil, guys.

[Nate]

Don't mind me just posting everyone's favorite superhero.

[Fish and Chips]

It'd help if people who didn't like Superman actually knew anything about Superman. It gets tiring after awhile, every single Superman thread here basically boiling down to naysayers saying, "Superman sucks because he sucks, but Batman is awesome because I know all the latest Internet fashions and memes." Writing for great lengths of time only to get completely ignored or sidelined carries a certain irritation of its own, but of course we're the rude ones.

But, I'm not here to talk about that.

I'm here to talk about Superman.

People who aren't too keen on Superman generally like to talk about how he's too powerful, and how this means absolutely nothing is a challenge for him so he's boring. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong; if you knew even the most cursory information about Superman, I wouldn't have to tell you that.

Yes, Superman is powerful, but so few of you actually consider the full implications of that.[quote="Superman"][Batman] won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will.

Me? I've got a different problem.

I feel like I live in a world made of... cardboard]Superman, the Man of Steel, is living in world made of glass; a god among insects.

Every morning Clark Kent wakes up and goes to work. He'll meet people, shake hands, bump into passersby, maybe even give someone a hug. Now he's Superman, saving the city, protecting the innocent, fighting the good fight against evil. Can you even understand what he's up against?

Himself.

He's Superman. The same Superman who can lift cars, the same Superman who can destroy mountains and deflect bullets, the same Superman who can catch bullets and crush them between his fingers. The same Clark Kent who can catch bullets, and shakes your hand every day at work. His hand, a hand that could crush your fingers like wet newspaper, careful and measured in that firm, trustworthy handshake.

Superman may be a god among insects, but he cares about these insects, to the point that he actively wishes to preserve and protect them. Have you ever tried to catch a fly without killing it? Because Superman has to. Every single day of his life he has to, with every single person he meets, from the love of his life Lois Lane to that one guy who's always a jerk at the office, pushing Clark Kent around just cause he's a good old Kansas boy too nice to complain about it.

Superman could kill everyone on Earth, casually, without even thinking about it, or by accident even; those he loves and those he fights. Yet those same hands that can crush steel like clay deliver just the right amount of force to a mugger to knock him out before he can shoot a woman in an alleyway, unconscious.

Superman could have caved his skull in with one finger. Instead, he wakes up in police custody with a headache.

Superman is powerful, yes. Perhaps too powerful, and not in the meta Complaining About Stuff You Don't Like Sense. Superman has never been challenged by anything, ever? You don't know the first thing about Superman.

And yet - and yet - Superman, so much more than a man, is only a man. For all that he does, for all that he can do, Superman is only one man.

In some back issue somewhere someone broke into Superman's Fortress of Solitude. Inside they found untold mountains of envelopes, letters; words written to Superman. "Thank you Superman for saving my daddy." "I just wanted to write to say thanks for all you've done Superman. I don't know where I'd be without you." "God bless you Superman." And yet, for every letter of praise and esteem, there were others - possibly even more - written from a different perspective.

"Where were you when my son died Superman?"

Superman is faster than a speeding bullet. Superman is more powerful than a locomotive. Superman is able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. It's a bird! It's a plane! It's Superman!

Superman.

One man.

One man who cannot possibly save every man.

This haunts him. It will haunt him forever. But Superman doesn't permit himself the luxury of forgetting his failures.

You think Superman is boring and irritating? You think Superman has no trials, no challenges?

I repeat myself: You don't know the first thing about Superman.

I am not speaking down to you, not any of you. I am simply telling you the truth, because Superman would have wanted it that way.

[rocklobster]

For once, I agree, Fish. I actually do like Supes. Because without him, there wouldn't be any other superheroes.

[Midori]

I just wanna say I'm pretty sure Fish just made the most awesome post in this thread.

[Winry]

Since there are so many Superman fans here, I have a question that has always bugged me about him: Why does no one recognize him? Just curious if there is a good reason or not. Note: I'm obviously not a Superman expert... just curious.

[Yamamaya]

It'd help if people who didn't like Superman actually knew anything about Superman. It gets tiring after awhile, every single Superman thread here basically boiling down to naysayers saying, "Superman sucks because he sucks, but Batman is awesome because I know all the latest Internet fashions and memes." Writing for great lengths of time only to get completely ignored or sidelined carries a certain irritation of its own, but of course we're the rude ones.

But, I'm not here to talk about that.

I'm here to talk about Superman.

People who aren't too keen on Superman generally like to talk about how he's too powerful, and how this means absolutely nothing is a challenge for him so he's boring. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong]Himself.[/I]

He's Superman. The same Superman who can lift cars, the same Superman who can destroy mountains and deflect bullets, the same Superman who can catch bullets and crush them between his fingers. The same Clark Kent who can catch bullets, and shakes your hand every day at work. His hand, a hand that could crush your fingers like wet newspaper, careful and measured in that firm, trustworthy handshake.

Superman may be a god among insects, but he cares about these insects, to the point that he actively wishes to preserve and protect them. Have you ever tried to catch a fly without killing it? Because Superman has to. Every single day of his life he has to, with every single person he meets, from the love of his life Lois Lane to that one guy who's always a jerk at the office, pushing Clark Kent around just cause he's a good old Kansas boy too nice to complain about it.

Superman could kill everyone on Earth, casually, without even thinking about it, or by accident even; those he loves and those he fights. Yet those same hands that can crush steel like clay deliver just the right amount of force to a mugger to knock him out before he can shoot a woman in an alleyway, unconscious.

Superman could have caved his skull in with one finger. Instead, he wakes up in police custody with a headache.

Superman is powerful, yes. Perhaps too powerful, and not in the meta Complaining About Stuff You Don't Like Sense. Superman has never been challenged by anything, ever? You don't know the first thing about Superman.

And yet - and yet - Superman, so much more than a man, is only a man. For all that he does, for all that he can do, Superman is only one man.

In some back issue somewhere someone broke into Superman's Fortress of Solitude. Inside they found untold mountains of envelopes, letters; words written to Superman. "Thank you Superman for saving my daddy." "I just wanted to write to say thanks for all you've done Superman. I don't know where I'd be without you." "God bless you Superman." And yet, for every letter of praise and esteem, there were others - possibly even more - written from a different perspective.

"Where were you when my son died Superman?"

Superman is faster than a speeding bullet. Superman is more powerful than a locomotive. Superman is able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. It's a bird! It's a plane! It's Superman!

Superman.

One man.

One man who cannot possibly save every man.

This haunts him. It will haunt him forever. But Superman doesn't permit himself the luxury of forgetting his failures.

You think Superman is boring and irritating? You think Superman has no trials, no challenges?

I repeat myself: You don't know the first thing about Superman.

I am not speaking down to you, not any of you. I am simply telling you the truth, because Superman would have wanted it that way.

A truly excellent posts, however don't these same issues apply to other superheroes if not on a smaller scale?

Even a superhero who can only lift a few tons has the ability to kill just about anyone around them. Let's use Spider-man as an example. He can lift about ten tons(20 tons in the movies). He has to pull his punches, otherwise he could kill the small time criminals he faces. He also experiences guilt when he fails to save someone.

I will give Superman credit where credit is due since he was one of the first superheroes. While those are certainly very real issues that Superman has to face due to his godlike powers, there's still the issue of Superman at least appearing to be "all powerful." Unless a character has very compelling character traits(and I'm not saying Supes doesn't) he can become rather stale if he's absolutely invisible. (That's one reason why I couldn't stand Alucard near the end of Hellsing). Obviously, Superman has been given several weaknesses, one of them being Krypto, vulnerability to magic, and his desire to save others(not really a weakness but it can be used against him).

[Nate]

Why does no one recognize him? Just curious if there is a good reason or not.

A lot of this is from Wikipedia, since I haven't read a lot of Superman's past. But.

Various methods for keeping his Superman identity secret over the years include his using eyeglasses and "super-hypnosis", subliminally preventing people from making the connection, compressing his spine as Clark Kent to become shorter, and studying the Meisner acting technique to switch seamlessly between personas. Furthermore, since Superman goes into public unmasked, most people assume that he has no other identity.

However, the biggest reason is that Superman is incredibly powerful. Clark Kent is of course mild-mannered and quiet. People might recognize the similarities but they would dismiss it and say "Pssh that guy is Superman? No way, they might look alike but he isn't super strong or anything."

It's kind of the sort of thing where say you're walking down the street and you see someone who looks like I dunno, Sean Connery. You might go "Gasp, that was Sean Connery!" but then you'll probably go "Yeah right, what would Sean Connery be doing here walking down the street by himself?" Even if the person looked a lot like Sean Connery you would likely dismiss it as a coincidence.

When first confronted by evidence that Clark Kent is Superman, Lex Luthor dismisses it, saying, "No one with the power of Superman would be living as a normal man." Especially since as Wikipedia mentioned earlier, Superman doesn't wear a mask, as opposed to other masked heroes like Batman or the Flash. In addition, most of the other unmasked heroes in the DCU normally don't have secret identities, such as Aquaman or Martian Manhunter, and Jon Stewart (one of the Green Lanterns), so people assume Superman doesn't either.

So there ya go.

[Solid Ronin]

A lot of this is from Wikipedia, since I haven't read a lot of Superman's past. But.

Various methods for keeping his Superman identity secret over the years include his using eyeglasses and "super-hypnosis", subliminally preventing people from making the connection, compressing his spine as Clark Kent to become shorter, and studying the Meisner acting technique to switch seamlessly between personas. Furthermore, since Superman goes into public unmasked, most people assume that he has no other identity.
...
So there ya go.

As a Big Superman reader I can confirm all of this, and add that Superman also changes his voice, so he also sounds like a meek timid guy, then talking as he naturally does when He's in his uniform.

A truly excellent posts, however don't these same issues apply to other superheroes if not on a smaller scale?

Yes, but the catch with Superman is that He's not just holding back his power but himself. Spiderman was a normal joe. He lived normally for a large chuck of his life, got powers, made a suit.

With Superman, He's always been strong. When Clark was a child he had to constantly hold himself back form doing anything, he couldn't bump into anyone. If he got picked on he had to take it. If he fell down he had to act like he was hurt, if he wanted to play he couldn't. When he has the "S" on his chest, that's the symbol for Krypton itself. That cape and boots, that was Kryptonian fashion when it was destroyed. Clark Kent didn't become Superman, Superman remembers his fear and anxiety as a child and turns it into Clark Kent.

Batman and Spiderman were made.
Superman was born.

[Midori]

How does Clark Kent's employer cope with his sudden unexplained absences all the time?

[Solid Ronin]

How does Clark Kent's employer cope with his sudden unexplained absences all the time?

Perry White: Kent! KENT! I swear. I ... I! *breathes in* Where were you Kent?

Clark: Uh. Oh! Sorry Mr. White! I was on my way to make a deposit when the Lava-men attacked and thought it best to stay put, I'm sorry I reall-

Perry: What-kind-of reporter STAYS PUT ON THE STOR-

Clark: *holds out a piece on notebook paper* . I . got a quick word with Superman after the incident... *nervously smiles*

Clark Kent. For some reason he's always meeting up with Superman, unless Lois gets to him first.

[Winry]

A lot of this is from Wikipedia, since I haven't read a lot of Superman's past. But.

Various methods for keeping his Superman identity secret over the years include his using eyeglasses and "super-hypnosis", subliminally preventing people from making the connection, compressing his spine as Clark Kent to become shorter, and studying the Meisner acting technique to switch seamlessly between personas. Furthermore, since Superman goes into public unmasked, most people assume that he has no other identity.

Thanks! Super-hypnosis?? Well, at least that would make sense. I would find it hard to believe that people who knew both Superman or Clark Kent wouldn't make some sort of comparsion between the two. I don't think the hunching over, different mannerisms, eyeglasses and different hair style would be enough for me to think it was a totally different person, especially if I thought that person was trying to disguise himself. No one even seems to make a small connection that Clark Kent and Superman at least look a like. If multiple people started saying it, you would think some one would try to investigate it. But, I guess super-hypnosis would fix that.

However, the biggest reason is that Superman is incredibly powerful. Clark Kent is of course mild-mannered and quiet. People might recognize the similarities but they would dismiss it and say "Pssh that guy is Superman? No way, they might look alike but he isn't super strong or anything."

It's kind of the sort of thing where say you're walking down the street and you see someone who looks like I dunno, Sean Connery. You might go "Gasp, that was Sean Connery!" but then you'll probably go "Yeah right, what would Sean Connery be doing here walking down the street by himself?" Even if the person looked a lot like Sean Connery you would likely dismiss it as a coincidence.

I don't know about this. If I saw Sean Connery walking around in the city where he lived even if he was alone I would probably think it was Sean Connery. Likewise if I saw someone who had the same face as Superman walking around Metropolis (assuming I had met Superman before), I would immediately think, "Oh look its Superman." Even if I had my doubts, I would at least take the time to go up to him and make sure.

I think I'll stick with the super-hypnosis idea and be happy with that.

[Cognitive Gear]

It'd help if people who didn't like Superman actually knew anything about Superman. It gets tiring after awhile, every single Superman thread here basically boiling down to naysayers saying, "Superman sucks because he sucks, but Batman is awesome because I know all the latest Internet fashions and memes." Writing for great lengths of time only to get completely ignored or sidelined carries a certain irritation of its own, but of course we're the rude ones.

But, I'm not here to talk about that.

I'm here to talk about Superman.

People who aren't too keen on Superman generally like to talk about how he's too powerful, and how this means absolutely nothing is a challenge for him so he's boring. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong]Himself.[/I]

He's Superman. The same Superman who can lift cars, the same Superman who can destroy mountains and deflect bullets, the same Superman who can catch bullets and crush them between his fingers. The same Clark Kent who can catch bullets, and shakes your hand every day at work. His hand, a hand that could crush your fingers like wet newspaper, careful and measured in that firm, trustworthy handshake.

Superman may be a god among insects, but he cares about these insects, to the point that he actively wishes to preserve and protect them. Have you ever tried to catch a fly without killing it? Because Superman has to. Every single day of his life he has to, with every single person he meets, from the love of his life Lois Lane to that one guy who's always a jerk at the office, pushing Clark Kent around just cause he's a good old Kansas boy too nice to complain about it.

Superman could kill everyone on Earth, casually, without even thinking about it, or by accident even; those he loves and those he fights. Yet those same hands that can crush steel like clay deliver just the right amount of force to a mugger to knock him out before he can shoot a woman in an alleyway, unconscious.

Superman could have caved his skull in with one finger. Instead, he wakes up in police custody with a headache.

Superman is powerful, yes. Perhaps too powerful, and not in the meta Complaining About Stuff You Don't Like Sense. Superman has never been challenged by anything, ever? You don't know the first thing about Superman.

And yet - and yet - Superman, so much more than a man, is only a man. For all that he does, for all that he can do, Superman is only one man.

In some back issue somewhere someone broke into Superman's Fortress of Solitude. Inside they found untold mountains of envelopes, letters; words written to Superman. "Thank you Superman for saving my daddy." "I just wanted to write to say thanks for all you've done Superman. I don't know where I'd be without you." "God bless you Superman." And yet, for every letter of praise and esteem, there were others - possibly even more - written from a different perspective.

"Where were you when my son died Superman?"

Superman is faster than a speeding bullet. Superman is more powerful than a locomotive. Superman is able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. It's a bird! It's a plane! It's Superman!

Superman.

One man.

One man who cannot possibly save every man.

This haunts him. It will haunt him forever. But Superman doesn't permit himself the luxury of forgetting his failures.

You think Superman is boring and irritating? You think Superman has no trials, no challenges?

I repeat myself: You don't know the first thing about Superman.

I am not speaking down to you, not any of you. I am simply telling you the truth, because Superman would have wanted it that way.

[Rusty Claymore]

Ack! Disney Princess Superman!!!

*regains breath* Srsly, don't pull stunts like that! XD

...I prefer how he looked back in the older comics. Like the one where he fights the clock-work man. n.n

[rocklobster]

Why do I think Superman is awesome?
Because he did this to Darkseid