People who you were excited to find out were Christian

[TheSubtleDoctor]

Most people in this thread aren't posting about David Hume.

No, not all judgments are hasty generalizations, and yes, discerning someone's religious leanings through sifting evidence is good practice. You are correct. However, I do not believe the majority of the posts made in this thread were made with that same thoughtfulness.

Take Rocklobster's opening post.Now, it's entirely possibly I'm making a hasty judgment of Rocklobster here, and he's certainly free to post in his own thread to prove me wrong, but I think I can pinpoint with a very low margin of error exactly why he listed all of these people, and I very seriously doubt it has even half the amount of forethought you put into your post dismissing the possibility of David Hume's deathbed conversion.

All very fair and true points, sir. I mainly wanted to disagree with you about/get clarification about this:

Everyone who posted someone else's name in this thread.

which seemed to be making a universal evaluation about the act of making a judgment about someone's faith. However, you have since made yourself clear concerning the specific kind of judgments you are condemning.

Resume discussion.

What about the durian?

Take it up with Jesus and/or Luke.

[Nate]

Take it up with Jesus and/or Luke.

I will since apparently neither of them knew anything about gardening, otherwise pruning wouldn't exist (pruning is removing limbs from a healthy plant, either because the limb is diseased or dead, or for space reasons). A plant's limb can be diseased and produce bad fruit while the rest of the plant is healthy and produces good fruit. You prune the bad limb to prevent the spread of the disease to the rest of the plant.

So a good tree can produce bad fruit. The durian thing was mostly a joke since it's a pretty nasty fruit but some people love it.

I'm wondering if that verse had something lost in translation though, because otherwise it doesn't make sense...unless Jesus was speaking more generally. For example, a good tree wouldn't produce ALL bad fruit, if it produced all bad fruit then it's obviously a bad tree. But good trees can produce bad fruit, there's no question about that.

[blkmage]

I'm pretty sure Jesus uses a pruning metaphor or two in John when he's talking about the vine and the branches.

[TheSubtleDoctor]

I'm pretty sure Jesus uses a pruning metaphor or two in John when he's talking about the vine and the branches.

This.

I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

Also, I was only one-up joking you, Nate, so no srs replies required =).

[That Dude]

Would now be a bad time/bad place to say that I assume most people aren't Christian until they mention otherwise, or I see something that suggests otherwise? Why should I assume everyone is a Christian?

I'm right with you and agree %100.

[Lynna]

Avril Lavigne!!
Although lately, with her divorce and everything, It seems she's walked away from christianity. But back when she was new she was pretty open about it

[Peanut]

Would now be a bad time/bad place to say that I assume most people aren't Christian until they mention otherwise, or I see something that suggests otherwise? Why should I assume everyone is a Christian?

Like That Dude and you I also tend to hold this opinion. So I see nothing wrong with it unless it was done in a super, judgmental, "anyone who isn't a Christian is like Hitler" sort of way.

[Nate]

I just don't assume anything about a person's religion when I see or meet them. The first thing that pops into my mind when I meet or see someone is not "I wonder what religion they are." It just doesn't seem important in the least. I don't assume they're non-Christian, I don't assume they're Christian, I don't assume they're agnostic, I don't assume a single thing about them on the religion spectrum.

I'm pretty sure Jesus uses a pruning metaphor or two in John when he's talking about the vine and the branches.

Hmm. Must be Luke that doesn't understand gardening then. I guess that's fine since he was a doctor and all. I mean I wouldn't expect my mom to know anything about treating lymphoma.

[Radical Dreamer]

Although lately, with her divorce and everything, It seems she's walked away from christianity.

Not to single you out, but this is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I ask for people to post with discretion in this thread. Something that really bothers me about the Church is how judgmental we can be towards those who sin in a different way than we do. Like I said earlier, we can't judge these people's hearts, and we can't simply assume that someone has "turned their back on Christ" just because of something like this. Hopefully that makes it clearer for all of you why I want us all to be so careful with this thread.

[KougaHane]

Like it says. Have you ever said "Wow! So-and-so's Christian? Interesting." Here's some celebrities who surprised me:
Alice Cooper (yes, you read that right. Alice. Cooper.)
JK Rowling
the creators of Dungeons and Dragons (they were also fans of JRR Tolkien)
Madeleine L'Engle
JRR Tolkien
all the members of U2
Alfred Hitchcock
Stephen Colbert
Vic Mignogna

I knew about most of those already except a few of those people I've never even heard of, and I'm still not convinced Colbert is a Christian. And If you were influenced by C.S. Lewis' works, thank Tolkien. He influenced Lewis to convert to Christianity. Also, I recently found that my favorite actor Russel Crowe recently became a Christian. I was very excited!

[Radical Dreamer]

I knew about most of those already except a few of those people I've never even heard of, and I'm still not convinced Colbert is a Christian.

He's actually been a Sunday school teacher in his hometown of Charleston, SC. XD He talks about being a practicing Catholic fairly often on his show.

[Cognitive Gear]

Interesting thread, though it seems that there are a lot of people listed who I have no idea why it surprises anyone that they are Christians.

I don't know why so many Christians take to this idea of "I don't know if they are really a Christian". It's like there are some unspoken rules for what makes a real, true Christian that I am not aware of. Is Christianity secretly an exclusive club?

[Atria35]

Is Christianity secretly an exclusive club?

Yes. There's a secret handshake and everything

[Nate]

I really don't understand how people can be surprised or unsure of Colbert's Christian faith. He's been extremely open and talkative about it for ages.

[steenajack]

Avril Lavigne!!
Although lately, with her divorce and everything, It seems she's walked away from christianity. But back when she was new she was pretty open about it

Katy Perry seems to be on a similar journey. Apparently that she was/is a Christian, or at least grew up in a Christian home. (She even has a Christian CD, except she was under a different name). She seems to be.....searching, I guess. IDK, I don't want to be judgmental.

I tend to be more happy than surprised to find out that someone is a Christian. Cause then to me it's like, "Oh sweet! That's really cool,"
That being said, apparently Sandra Bullock is a Christian. I was surprised and happy to find that out because she's one of my favorite actresses. :3!

I was happy to find out several VAs were/are Christian. :3! Not just Vic Mignogna, but also:

Caitlin Glass
Johnny Yong Bosch
Carrie Savage
Luci Christian

.................XD! It also made me very happy to hear them talk about their faith.

[Rusty Claymore]

This thread is sticky.

Is Christianity secretly an exclusive club?

We even have our own party outfits. If you don't got it you get thrown out. Srs.

[KougaHane]

He's actually been a Sunday school teacher in his hometown of Charleston, SC. XD He talks about being a practicing Catholic fairly often on his show.

I've never looked into it much, but every time I've watched his show it's contained innuendos and swearing. I'm skeptical of everything I see on TV though.

[Radical Dreamer]

I've never looked into it much, but every time I've watched his show it's contained innuendos and swearing. I'm skeptical of everything I see on TV though.

This is another reason why I'm uncomfortable with this thread, really. Just because someone swears and makes a few innuendos on television (or not on television, really) doesn't mean they don't know Jesus. It's not our job to judge people for that. Stephen Colbert's TV show is his character, anyways, but I've seen enough interviews with him out of character to see what he professes as his faith.

I guess the important part is exactly what you said: you've never looked into it before. I don't think we should pass judgment on someone without looking into who they really are. And even then, you can't judge the heart. I'm okay with what some of this thread has been about, being glad to find out that someone in the media or whatever is a Christian, but I think we really need to veer away from the judgmental underbelly of that.

[Warrior4Christ]

But I'm not insulted when people are surprised when they find out I'm Christian- For me, that says that there are a lot of people that are nice and good and caring out there that just aren't converts. And, quite frankly, the world needs more good, kind, caring people no matter what religion they are (or aren't, as the case may be).

I don't necessarily think it's encouraging when people are surprised you're a Christian either...



Having said that,
Bear Grylls
Donald Knuth ("the father of the analysis of algorithms" - computer science owes him a lot)
+ many others that don't come to mind..

[KougaHane]

This is another reason why I'm uncomfortable with this thread, really. Just because someone swears and makes a few innuendos on television (or not on television, really) doesn't mean they don't know Jesus. It's not our job to judge people for that. Stephen Colbert's TV show is his character, anyways, but I've seen enough interviews with him out of character to see what he professes as his faith.

I guess the important part is exactly what you said: you've never looked into it before. I don't think we should pass judgment on someone without looking into who they really are. And even then, you can't judge the heart. I'm okay with what some of this thread has been about, being glad to find out that someone in the media or whatever is a Christian, but I think we really need to veer away from the judgmental underbelly of that.

Yeah I agree. I make mistakes too. As I said, I'm just skeptical of anyone on TV, no matter who they are.

[Fish and Chips]

I really don't understand how people can be surprised or unsure of Colbert's Christian faith. He's been extremely open and talkative about it for ages.

It's probably uncertainty as to where his stage persona ends and his actual personality begins.

[TWWK]

Having said that,
Bear Grylls

Forgot about him! Man, I remember being all excited when I found out about his faith, as I was totally addicted to his show for a while.

[TheSubtleDoctor]

It's like there are some unspoken rules for what makes a real, true Christian that I am not aware of. Is Christianity secretly an exclusive club?

I am confused by this statement. I thought the "rules" (I prefer criteria) were open and apparent, not so much behavioral but epistemic ones. Do you not think that one has to subscribe to certain beliefs to be a Christian? Any sort of classification requires necessary and sufficient conditions for being a member of the class. Christianity is exclusive insofar as we exclude the likes of Ghandi, the Buddha and Bertrand Russell on epistemic grounds.

Now, I haven't said one word about the eternal destiny of the souls of Ghandi, the Buddha and Bertrand Russell. Keep in mind that the link between being a Christian and going to heaven ought not be assumed. A distinction b/w "Smith is not a Christian" and "Smith is not going to heaven" should be made. The former need not entail the latter for the inclusivist.

[Atria35]

Apparently my former post didn't make much sense.

W4C, I'm an inclusivist. So you and I have different views on that.

[Nate]

I am confused by this statement. I thought the "rules" (I prefer criteria) were open and apparent, not so much behavioral but epistemic ones.

The problem is no one in this thread is saying "I am surprised that this person is a Christian because they had previously stated that they did not believe Jesus was the Son of God."

People are saying "I was surprised this person was a Christian because they swear" or "I was surprised this person was a Christian because they had a divorce."

In other words, people ARE in this thread basing Christianity on behavior and not beliefs. That's why Phil posted what he did, and why Corrie, Fish, and myself really don't like this thread, because it turns into judging others. Not judging others on a "You're going to Hell" level of course, but it's still judging them.

[TheSubtleDoctor]

The problem is no one in this thread is saying "I am surprised that this person is a Christian because they had previously stated that they did not believe Jesus was the Son of God."

People are saying "I was surprised this person was a Christian because they swear" or "I was surprised this person was a Christian because they had a divorce."

In other words, people ARE in this thread basing Christianity on behavior and not beliefs. That's why Phil posted what he did, and why Corrie, Fish, and myself really don't like this thread, because it turns into judging others. Not judging others on a "You're going to Hell" level of course, but it's still judging them.

I was completely aware of all these points; however, when someone is surprised that Christianity is "an exclusive club" (and that is what was said) what that sounds like is that they are surprised that it has a specific set of conditions that, if one meets them they're in, if one doesn't they're not.

I think interpreting the question in this way is quite fair.

"When did Christianity become an exclusive club?" is asking a different question than asking, "When did the criteria for being a Christian become behaving in a certain way?"

[Cognitive Gear]

[quote="TheSubtleDoctor (post: 1444599)"]I was completely aware of all these points]

I think that we are operating with two different definitions of exclusive (though both are equally valid). I was using the word in the "catering or available to only a few, select persons" as opposed to "restricted or limited to the person, group, or area concerned".

Similar, but not quite the same. By your definition, all clubs are "exclusive clubs", which would make the term itself useless. Generally exclusive clubs have a set of prerequisites to joining, whereas normal clubs let anyone join, so long as they fill out the paperwork.

In Christianity's case, anyone can be, or become, a Christian. We don't have to start out gold medals or a certain amount of wealth or have earned some special award; all that is required is a belief in and submission to Jesus. (and I suppose that some would debate even that.)

[KougaHane]

I did make an error with my former statement regarding Colbert. I probably reacted teh way I did because I've never once found his show humorous, and so naturally I have a negative reaction when he is mentioned. I am pleased to find out he is a Christian though. I thought of this because I found out the Jonas Brothers were Christians. I can't stand the Jonas Brothers' music, so naturally I was skeptical, simply because I don't like them. I really need to stop disliking people based on musical and humor style (except I think innuendo is wrong as it can in some cases inspire lust). I have so many problems. Forgive me for being an idiot all the time.

[Radical Dreamer]

I have so many problems. Forgive me for being an idiot all the time.

XD Don't take it personally, dude. I didn't intend to single you out up there, just to keep the thread on a good track. We're all sinners and screwups, myself very much included, and you are certainly not alone in having "so many problems." Just fyi: every single person here is the exact same way. XD

[mysngoeshere56]

XD Don't take it personally, dude. I didn't intend to single you out up there, just to keep the thread on a good track. We're all sinners and screwups, myself very much included, and you are certainly not alone in having "so many problems." Just fyi: every single person here is the exact same way. XD

I agree - I struggle with various sins myself... I'm just thankful that God is very patient and forgiving of me - if it wasn't for Him, I'd be nowhere!

As a whole, I think I pretty much agree with RD here... At first, I thought it was a bit strange that we were all saying we were "surprised" that various people were Christian, and it made the thread seem a tad judgemental to me... But when I found out the *original* intention was more something like "OH WOW! That celebrity's a Christian? Cool!" I felt a little more okay with it. I think the title just struck me funny at first.

Anyway... I'm not sure how famous he is, but some friends of mine introduced me to a comedian named Tim Hawkins. He's a pretty funny guy, and a genius with parodies... You can find a lot of his videos on YouTube. After seeing some of his stuff in which he seemed to hint at his faith a little, I asked my friends if he was a Christian. And they said yes! I thought it was pretty awesome.