Constantly Afraid Of Going To Hell...

[That Dude]

If I remember correctly Jesus talked more about hell than heaven during his earthly ministry.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I can't say that I agree. I think the gospels make it very clear through his ministry that his focus is much more on the kingdom of God (embodying love, social justice, etc). Furthermore, Jesus consistently used vernacular and thematic elements which were familiar to the Jewish religious culture, meaning that Jesus alluding to concepts of Hell does not mean that Jesus did not believe this. Much like how the Bible must be exegetically understood, Christ's words too have a Jewish context which he tailored for Jewish ears. For us Christians, I believe this needs to be taken account for.

Essentially, the Bible is far more ambiguous than the construct of the fundamentalist/evangelical church believes. But I think there is far less we can say for certain about our faith. Nonetheless, I still argue that this is why our faith is such a mystery. Perhaps even as far as a paradox.

[TopazRaven]

Well I just sat here and took the time to read over everyone's post fully and I'd once again like to thank everyone for your advice and wisdom. Every single one of you has been EXTREMELY helpful to my plight. As I woke up this morning I already relized I felt less afraid and hopefully this will continue day by day. I have enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts on hell as well, though I'm still not sure now what my thoughts are on such a place.

As for my anexity problems I really REALLY want to avoid seeing a therpist if I can. That sort of thing cost money, a lot of money from what I hear, and I just don't have it. I refuse to burdon my family with such a thing. They take care of me far to much already. Not to mention, I will admit, I am not at all pleased with the thought of going. Everyone tells me it would be good for me and maybe it would, but I'm going to try and fix myself up as best as I can before I do something that drastic.

If I ask I'm sure God will help me out! Sometimes I think he must look down at me, shake his head, smile and say something all the lines of, "what am I going to do with you kid?" What indeed? I'm quite insane. xD

[Peanut]

As for my anexity problems I really REALLY want to avoid seeing a therpist if I can. That sort of thing cost money, a lot of money from what I hear, and I just don't have it. I refuse to burdon my family with such a thing. They take care of me far to much already. Not to mention, I will admit, I am not at all pleased with the thought of going. Everyone tells me it would be good for me and maybe it would, but I'm going to try and fix myself up as best as I can before I do something that drastic.

Most Pastors won't charge you for counseling and if they do...well I find there to be something wrong with that. I bring this up because I think any counseling is probably going to help you more then no counseling. There is no reason to try and do this all on your own in fact that can usually make things like this worse. While you definitely should pray about this, that should not be an excuse to not seek out help in tackling this problem. In fact, I think the most effective way to tackle a problem like this is to not just pray for deliverance from God but to work towards it as well. And doing something like this does not mean that you lack faith. If anything, performing an action and expecting God to meet you there and intervene takes more faith then passively sitting around hoping God will move.

I can't say that I agree. I think the gospels make it very clear through his ministry that his focus is much more on the kingdom of God (embodying love, social justice, etc). Furthermore, Jesus consistently used vernacular and thematic elements which were familiar to the Jewish religious culture, meaning that Jesus alluding to concepts of Hell does not mean that Jesus did not believe this. Much like how the Bible must be exegetically understood, Christ's words too have a Jewish context which he tailored for Jewish ears. For us Christians, I believe this needs to be taken account for.

Yes and no. To reiterate an earlier point of mine, there is a lot of evidence that shows that the Jews held a belief that their was a period of judgment after the end of the world. When I say a lot of evidence I mean a lot of good evidence with nothing that I am aware of to contradict it. So it is not unreasonable to assume that Jesus (or at least his disciples) held a belief that there is a judgment of sorts at the end. In fact, I'm pretty certain that he alludes or just blatantly talks about it in several parables and other places within the gospels. So what does this mean about hell? After all, we could have a judgment without Hell actually existing and you are right. However, all of the arguments I've seen in this thread so far against hell can be used against any form of punishment. For instance, with the reasons that have been listed for not believing in hell, I don't think any of you would be willing to support the annihilation of the wicked's souls (or if we are going to stay loyal to Jewish eschatology, resurrected bodies).

So perhaps a better question to ask first is not "Does hell exist" but what do we mean by "hell." I mentioned CS Lewis earlier so I'll use him as an example. CS Lewis' version of hell seems to be more of a state of being then an actual location though he does attribute a location to it within The Great Divorce. I know of teachers at my school which have actually mentioned the idea of hell being a state and not a literal location and I think it has some merit to it. The problem (and excuse me for continuing to repeat myself) is that when hell is completely wiped out and not replaced, you are left with nothing but reward and, as selfish as this may sound, I see no reason to follow or even worship God since ultimately you're going to be with him for eternity anyway. When you can be worse then Hitler and still make it into heaven without repentance, there's something wrong with that picture.

[Midori]

As for my anexity problems I really REALLY want to avoid seeing a therpist if I can. That sort of thing cost money, a lot of money from what I hear, and I just don't have it. I refuse to burdon my family with such a thing. They take care of me far to much already. Not to mention, I will admit, I am not at all pleased with the thought of going. Everyone tells me it would be good for me and maybe it would, but I'm going to try and fix myself up as best as I can before I do something that drastic.

If I ask I'm sure God will help me out! Sometimes I think he must look down at me, shake his head, smile and say something all the lines of, "what am I going to do with you kid?" What indeed? I'm quite insane. xD

It's true that therapy can be expensive. Don't go thinking that it's embarrasing though]Most Pastors won't charge you for counseling and if they do...well I find there to be something wrong with that. I bring this up because I think any counseling is probably going to help you more then no counseling. There is no reason to try and do this all on your own in fact that can usually make things like this worse.[/quote]This is true too of course. This is part of most pastors' job descriptions.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Right, Peanut. I wasn't saying that it was unreasonable that Jesus + Disciples believed in "X", rather that even with the proclamations (kerygma?) of Jesus, there is an importance of contextual understanding/exegesis and that there are times which Jesus was speaking very analogously (i.e. Gehenna is an example off the top of my head).

Anyway, Topaz. I'm not gonna outright suggest therapy or anything, cause its not my nor anyone's place to say what you need. Nonetheless, therapy can benefit anyone (Especially if you're a Christian and wish for Christian therapists!). Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy is a really popular one nowadays. If you don't know what it is, it basically analyzes your behaviors by asking you "why are you behaving this way? What thoughts go through your head which lead to these behaviors?" The idea is that your behaviors are a reflection of your thoughts. Challenge/scrutinize/change those thoughts and you can have healthier behavior. It asks WHY you think what you're thinking. Then this continues to regress further and finds a point which there can be a change of thought, which then work towards more overt thoughts. CBT is great and powerful in this respect and is currently the most popular form of therapy.

(As Midori said, I'm one of those hopeful-psychologists on the board, haha. I'm currently in the process of applying for Ph.D in Counseling Psychology programs to enter for next fall. XD)

Further, Midori is right. There is a lot less health care options available for mental health counseling. It's rather sad, actually. =( Some reform would do good, I think.

[TopazRaven]

Forgive me then, here's a big flaw of mine. I'm stubborn. If it gets to the point where I feel I can't function anymore or I'm so afraid I start openly bursting into tears then I'll get help. I don't know any pastors at the moment because I haven't been to chruch in 7 years. About time I started going back I know.

[ShiroiHikari]

[quote="Midori (post: 1441062)"]
It seems to me that people who do not accept Christ will perish. Perish means you're dead. Forever. Nothing left for you.

Mind you, eternal death seems just as unappealing to me as eternal suffering]

This is pretty much how I feel about it.

[Hiryu]

Pascal, I agree with your argument. I think you make some good points. I think God doesn't want to throw anybody into hell. I bet he doesn't even want it to exist because it's such a horrifying place. But he must do what he has said he would do. Not everyone will accept Jesus into their life, very unfortunately. I like to think that he gives everyone a chance in accepting his son.

Think of it this way - what if your son decided to trade his life for someone else, and then that person give you no respect and perhaps even behaves in a hateful manner toward your son?

[rocklobster]

TopazRaven, I want you to realize something. Any time you are worried about going to hell, Satan is doing his happy dance. Do you really want that? His happy dance is not a pretty sight.
But seriously, don't despair. That's one of Satan's favorite tricks. Remember, Jesus died so you could live.

[TopazRaven]

I'll be sure to remember that. I won't let Satan win, worry not.

[armeck]

As for my anexity problems I really REALLY want to avoid seeing a therpist if I can.
If I ask I'm sure God will help me out! Sometimes I think he must look down at me, shake his head, smile and say something all the lines of, "what am I going to do with you kid?" What indeed? I'm quite insane. xD

as for therapy, i went to therapy for just a little while, i found talking to a trusted friend helped more that going to therapy. and i think God looks at us all and says "what am i going to do with you kid" that is a very interesting thought, i really do think he does that, it is a sign that he cares.

[quote="TopazRaven (post: 1441167) I haven't been to chruch in 7 years. About time I started going back I know.[/QUOTE"]

i love going to church, but i am growing to having more and more problems with it, i encourage you to go to church, but, remember people aren't perfect, and some will be rude and hateful, but don't let it get to you, and don't let anyone make you feed bad about yourself.

[ShiroiHikari]

Anxiety is tricky stuff sometimes. I struggle with it myself. If you'd rather not go to counseling, maybe find a friend to talk to or a discussion forum of some kind (though you have to be careful with those, it's the internet after all).

[TopazRaven]

Anxiety is tricky stuff sometimes. I struggle with it myself. If you'd rather not go to counseling, maybe find a friend to talk to or a discussion forum of some kind (though you have to be careful with those, it's the internet after all).

That made me laugh. Yes indeed. xD Well I don't talk to my mom anymore about my paranoia or anxiety because she gets annoyed, tells me I need therpy and sometimes yells at me (if I say I feel really sick or something because I'm a bit of a hypochondriac and I've had her take me to the hospital before and then found out nothing was wrong with me, not that they could find anyway, but she gets irritated with my anixety issues to)...So I just aviod telling her now.

Sometimes I talk to my friends, but they kind of just roll their eyes at me. I know I complain a lot, but it kind of hurts my feelings when they just brush me off and tell me, "it's all in your head." Therapy might be my only choice in the end, but I think I'm in least getting a little better with the hypochondriac issue. If I really need to I can always talk to my neighbor. She's very kind and understanding.

[ShiroiHikari]

Well, the thing with "hypochondria" is that severe anxiety can make you feel physically bad. A lot of people don't really get that, though.

[TopazRaven]

Well, good news. For me in least. My mom just informed me our insurance will cover therapy, so I have no excuse now. One of her friends is going to give us the number for a good thearpist she goes to so I should be going sometime in the near future I suppose. Even if I'm not exactly thrilled with the idea. xD

[Okami]

Well, good news. For me in least. My mom just informed me our insurance will cover therapy, so I have no excuse now. One of her friends is going to give us the number for a good thearpist she goes to so I should be going sometime in the near future I suppose. Even if I'm not exactly thrilled with the idea. xD

I've found that God does use therapists, much in the same way that He uses doctors. Some people get really scared when they think of going to see a psychologist/therapist/counselor because they might think something is oh-so terribly wrong with them, but the way I see it, they're just another type of doctor; they're just trying to help heal what's in your head (as opposed to a cold, let's say )

Of course, I just have to throw in my $0.02, since my calling into ministry is to become a psychologist. XD

[TopazRaven]

I understand that, but I still can't help but not want to go. Yet another problem of mine, I'm a bit anti-social and feel uncomfortable being alone with and talking to strangers.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Lols don't beat yourself over it. MOST people don't like the idea of going to one. But some choose to anyway, as much of a risk it is.

Even things such as your ambivalence and anxiety has psychological roots. Being consciencely aware of these is a necessary step to healing.

[Furen]

Well, good news. For me in least. My mom just informed me our insurance will cover therapy, so I have no excuse now. One of her friends is going to give us the number for a good thearpist she goes to so I should be going sometime in the near future I suppose. Even if I'm not exactly thrilled with the idea. xD

Is the therapist Christian by any chance?

[Nate]

Is the therapist Christian by any chance?

It shouldn't matter.

Glad to hear you're making progress to getting better, Topaz. :3 I can understand the anxiety but hopefully you'll overcome it and can get some help.

[TheSubtleDoctor]

I understand that, but I still can't help but not want to go. Yet another problem of mine, I'm a bit anti-social and feel uncomfortable being alone with and talking to strangers.

It's pretty natural not to want to. I felt the same way, but in time my sessions grew to be an enjoyable and even necessary part of my life. Your time in therapy may start out a bit rough, but if you have an open mind, really listen to your therapist and stick to their rules/exercises/prescribed medications, you'll benefit a lot. I will continue to pray for you!

[TopazRaven]

Is the therapist Christian by any chance?

I don't see why this should matter either. Wither the person I see is a Christian terapist or not she should still be able to help with me with my problems and respect my religious views. If I don't like her then I'll just find a new therapist if I have to, but she sounds pretty good so far.

Glad to hear you're making progress to getting better, Topaz. :3 I can understand the anxiety but hopefully you'll overcome it and can get some help.

Thank you kindly Nate. Hope I can get over these silly problems of mine as well. In all honesty nothing bad has ever happened to me to make me this way so I feel rather dumb sometimes. You'd think I was one the victim of some terrible trajedy with the way I talk sometimes. *Sighs*.

It's pretty natural not to want to. I felt the same way, but in time my sessions grew to be an enjoyable and even necessary part of my life. Your time in therapy may start out a bit rough, but if you have an open mind, really listen to your therapist and stick to their rules/exercises/prescribed medications, you'll benefit a lot. I will continue to pray for you!

Thanks for the advice and for praying! In the end you may be right, perhaps I'll come to enjoy my therapy sessions to. I'm just kind of afraid of the whole prescribed medication bit.

Lols don't beat yourself over it. MOST people don't like the idea of going to one. But some choose to anyway, as much of a risk it is.

Even things such as your ambivalence and anxiety has psychological roots. Being consciencely aware of these is a necessary step to healing.

Thanks for the support. xD And that's good to know, though I really do wonder where it all comes come. I mean, I was bullied a bit in my school years, but who hasn't been?

[armeck]

the reason why they ask if the therapist is a christian is because if it isn't they may try to discourage you from believing in God

[Atria35]

the reason why they ask if the therapist is a christian is because if it isn't they may try to discourage you from believing in God

Not true. If they try to do that, then they aren't a proper therapist. I have never met one that would try to do that- they're encouraged to know that religion is an important part of a person's life.

[armeck]

Not true. If they try to do that, then they aren't a proper therapist. I have never met one that would try to do that- they're encouraged to know that religion is an important part of a person's life.

it REALLY depends, some are taught that religion is a crutch, and so someone could think that topaz's "religion" is hurting her. and encourage her to get away from it.... i don't want to start a debate, i'm just saying that is one possible thing that could happen.

[Nate]

No therapist is taught religion is a crutch. If they are, they have bad teachers. Therapists do not touch upon religion because religion is personal to each person, and has no bearing on the mental health of others. A good therapist will never bring up religion. This is why it doesn't matter if the therapist is Christian or not. If the therapist ever mentions religion in any capacity, then she has a bad therapist and needs to get another one.

I mean if you went to a doctor and said "Doctor my throat hurts" and the doctor said "Sounds like you need a series of painful electrical shocks!" what would you think? Would you think "Man doctors are stupid and horrible people who just want to inflict pain on others!" Or would you think "Wow that doctor is crazy, I'd better go to a GOOD doctor?"

I'd be willing to bet it'd be the second one.

[goldenspines]

it REALLY depends, some are taught that religion is a crutch, and so someone could think that topaz's "religion" is hurting her. and encourage her to get away from it.... i don't want to start a debate, i'm just saying that is one possible thing that could happen.

One thing to take into consideration is that there are many different religions in the world. If a therapist dismissed one over another (or voiced that one was better than another), they would be not doing their job properly. Plus, as Nate mentioned, therapists rarely (if ever) even bring up religion unless the person they're helping does. Their job is to help people work through their problems (having the person do most of the work, they're usually there to listen and maybe offer you a different perspective on what you're struggling with), not force them to do this or that.

And, Topaz will always have the opportunity to leave and go to a different therapist if she feels like her beliefs are being threatened.

That being said, I've stayed out of a majority of this thread, but I do wish you the best of luck, Topaz, and I hope things continue to go better for you. ^_^

[armeck]

okay... i clearly pushed a few people's buttons. i''ma sign out of this conversation

[TopazRaven]

One thing to take into consideration is that there are many different religions in the world. If a therapist dismissed one over another (or voiced that one was better than another), they would be not doing their job properly. Plus, as Nate mentioned, therapists rarely (if ever) even bring up religion unless the person they're helping does. Their job is to help people work through their problems (having the person do most of the work, they're usually there to listen and maybe offer you a different perspective on what you're struggling with), not force them to do this or that.

And, Topaz will always have the opportunity to leave and go to a different therapist if she feels like her beliefs are being threatened.

That being said, I've stayed out of a majority of this thread, but I do wish you the best of luck, Topaz, and I hope things continue to go better for you. ^_^

Thank you! I certainly hope things will change for the better soon to and I can assure everyone if a therapist even suggested to me that I was wrong to believe in God then I wouldn't be seeing them anymore. If that is their belief then that's fine, but just as I would never shove Christianity down someone's throat if they don't want to hear it then I don't want Aethism or another religion thrown at me. xD