The New War on Christmas

[Cognitive Gear]

There is something that has been bothering me for a few years now, and it is getting worse as time goes by.

Christmas is slowly taking over the calendar. This year, it has pushed itself all the way into October in some stores. Disneyland already has Christmas decorations up.

I am done allowing Christmas to take up so much of the year. Thanksgiving no longer has any meaning, and has been completely overtaken by it's more materialistic neighbor, Christmas.

So I propose that we wage a new war on Christmas. Let us all revel in giving thanks unto God, and unto those that have provided us with love and companionship throughout the year. Christmas can wait until December.

[Radical Dreamer]

[Furen]

well us Canadians don't have to worry as much as our thanksgiving is way earlier on than yours ^^

I'm still all for Christmas ^^

[ChristianKitsune]

I LOVE the buildup between Thanksgiving and Christmas... The Day after thanksgiving is when I want to start hearing the carols and festive songs...

I was hearing the carols at midnight on Nov. 1st... XD

[Mr. SmartyPants]

When I was little I wish it was Christmas time all year round.

I guess it was cause of the festiveness and snow. Not the materialism. XD

Okay maybe a little...

But I getcha. I'd like to celebrate regular-days too.

[MomentOfInertia]

I agree they are starting this up too soon a few of the radio stations in my area are already sprinkling in the Christmas carols amongst there other music, they should at least wait until the day after Thanksgiving.

But lets be clear what we want is not a war on Christmas but a war on "the holiday season" for that is the true cause of the problem.

I could say something about Thanksgiving getting marginalized but I shouldn't.

[ShiroiHikari]

I really like Thanksgiving and I hate that Christmas apparently comes at Halloween now. Back off, Christmas. Give it a rest.

[Furen]

I really like Thanksgiving and I hate that Christmas apparently comes at Halloween now. Back off, Christmas. Give it a rest.

wait, Christmas isn't on OCT 31, it's DEC 25 (pardon that terrible programming joke)

but seriously it's just the spirit of Christmas invading, we should go for that

[FllMtl Novelist]

Christmas stuff (decor, carols on the radio, etc.) showing up in early November is annoying. It's just rushing it too much, I think.

But then, Christmas = winter = snow + snow + snow + snow + snow + shoveling + snow + cold +cold + shivering + cold +cold + carrying firewood and dealing with the other kids drafted into helping (whiny children >:l) + snow + cold. For me at least. So it makes sense that I'd oppose it. XDDDD There are only 3 good things about winter in general, for me...

However I'm fine with my parents getting some of the Christmas shopping done early. So long as I get to come, and get out of the house. XD

[Nate]

Meh, companies are businesses. You can't capitalize on Thanksgiving unless you're a grocery store. I mean I'm against corporations as much as any other liberal but this is what businesses do, and I don't think we can attack them for trying to make money on something this inconsequential. *shrug*

For the record, grocery stores do actually make a big deal out of Thanksgiving, for obvious reasons. You want Thanksgiving celebration, go to Food Lion or Harris Teeter or something.

[Radical Dreamer]

but seriously it's just the spirit of Christmas invading, we should go for that

Except that the "spirit of Christmas" in America (I'm not sure about other countries) is just a lot of materialism, commercialism, and consumerism. It's a lot of rushing out to buy lots of things that you don't really have the money for but you're obligated to buy anyways. It's obnoxious commercials, claustrophobic malls, traffic backed up across town, and frustrated customers (retail workers, represent XD). I think that the idea of Christmas, the giving and receiving and the spending time with family and celebrating our Savior's birth is great, but just like it has with a host of other things, America has taken it way over the top to the point where it's lost all meaning and has just turned into one more way to get people to spend tons of money on things that they don't really need. XD

I probably sound terribly jaded in this post, but seriously, the materialistic side of Christmas has really gotten on my nerves within the last few years. XD

[Furen]

oh when I said that's what we should go for, I was talking about waging war on IT not Christmas itself

[Nate]

America has taken it way over the top to the point where it's lost all meaning and has just turned into one more way to get people to spend tons of money on things that they don't really need.

To be fair, the government is partially guilty of that problem. They're the ones that made Christmas (a religious holiday) recognized as a federal holiday, which should never have happened. I think this kinda "forced" Christmas to take on a secular, non-religious meaning to avoid violation of the separation of church and state.

So yeah, if we could get the government to stop recognizing Christmas as a federal holiday, Christians would have a better shot of getting the real meaning of Christmas back.

[Cognitive Gear]

They're the ones that made Christmas (a religious holiday) recognized as a federal holiday, which should never have happened. I think this kinda "forced" Christmas to take on a secular, non-religious meaning to avoid violation of the separation of church and state.

Eh, but the secular Christmas had been around and popularized before the US government officially recognized it. A Christmas Carol was written to popularize the secular Christmas, and was very successful.

And really I don't have a problem with the secularized Christmas, but with the fact that it is starting to take up 1/4 of the year by itself, for no other purpose than for corporate greed. Which, in my book, is diametrically opposed to what the true secular "spirit of Christmas" is supposed to be.

Anyways, the only way for this to change is for society to start rejecting it. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I will still voice my opinion.

[Nate]

Nah man, I understand. It just doesn't bother me, but everyone has their different pet peeves. Like I said, I'm against corporate greed too, but really only when it hurts people...to me, advertising Christmas in November doesn't hurt anyone, so I just don't see any reason to oppose it.

But I mean, if it does bother you, then I support your feelings and say go for it. I'm just saying I can't join in your cause, but I'm not against it.

[ShiroiHikari]

And really I don't have a problem with the secularized Christmas, but with the fact that it is starting to take up 1/4 of the year by itself, for no other purpose than for corporate greed. Which, in my book, is diametrically opposed to what the true secular "spirit of Christmas" is supposed to be.

This is pretty much how I feel about it.

[ich1990]

I love hearing Christmas music about one day per year. Sadly, that day is usually November 1st, and by the time Christmas rolls around I hate its music's guts.

The shopping and consumerism and such is annoying, but it doesn't hold a candle to the level of annoying-ness of the music.

Therefore, I join your war because an enemy of an enemy is my friend.

[Peanut]

You know, taking Latin American History this semester has really opened my eyes to things. Like the fact that the American church wasn't overly involved in those countries while priests who preached a message of help the poor were labeled as communists and killed. Then there's the Syrian church which is probably being persecuted because of what is really starting to look like a misguided war. On top of this, there's my realization of how much my peers (and myself included) rely on slacktivism instead of getting our hands dirty and actually helping people. And then I see this thread, calling me to arms against the commercialization of Christmas with no practical ways to go about it. I guess this Thanksgiving, besides being thankful that I can hang out with my family (like I always do) I'm going to be thankful for the ability to complain about insignificant things while my brother's and sister's in Christ are persecuted, starve and just generally suffer. It'll be the best Thanksgiving ever.

[Nate]

it doesn't hold a candle to the level of annoying-ness of the music.

I'm fine as long as I don't hear that godawful "Christmas shoes" song. That song makes me want to murder people.

an enemy of an enemy is my friend.

"The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less."

[Rusty Claymore]

Just remember that after the 25th, all the christmas cakes loose their appeal and get thrown out. XP

[Radical Dreamer]

You know, taking Latin American History this semester has really opened my eyes to things. Like the fact that the American church wasn't overly involved in those countries while priests who preached a message of help the poor were labeled as communists and killed. Then there's the Syrian church which is probably being persecuted because of what is really starting to look like a misguided war. On top of this, there's my realization of how much my peers (and myself included) rely on slacktivism instead of getting our hands dirty and actually helping people. And then I see this thread, calling me to arms against the commercialization of Christmas with no practical ways to go about it. I guess this Thanksgiving, besides being thankful that I can hang out with my family (like I always do) I'm going to be thankful for the ability to complain about insignificant things while my brother's and sister's in Christ are persecuted, starve and just generally suffer. It'll be the best Thanksgiving ever.

I really don't think that lamenting the commercialization of a holiday means anyone is exclusively ignoring the plight of the people mentioned in your post. It's entirely possible to say, "hey, Christmas should be about more than just buying more things," and be equally concerned with/helpful towards those less fortunate. The problems of this world are multi-faceted, and just because one thread on an equally multi-faceted board is focusing on only one of the problems doesn't mean the rest are being exclusively ignored. Either way, there's no need for the hostile overtones.

[ShiroiHikari]

I actually do love Christmas songs (well, the GOOD ones, anyway-- there are a lot of terrible ones), and I started listening to my favorite Christmas albums early this year. I'm not sure why, but I think I was just missing the songs themselves rather than the actual holiday.

[Peanut]

I really don't think that lamenting the commercialization of a holiday means anyone is exclusively ignoring the plight of the people mentioned in your post. It's entirely possible to say, "hey, Christmas should be about more than just buying more things," and be equally concerned with/helpful towards those less fortunate. The problems of this world are multi-faceted, and just because one thread on an equally multi-faceted board is focusing on only one of the problems doesn't mean the rest are being exclusively ignored. Either way, there's no need for the hostile overtones.

I disagree with you vehemently on this point. I don't think we care and when we talk about insignificant things that don't matter, and which we probably can't do anything more about then what we are doing it seems to confirm this. Unless, of course, everyone here does pray for the Messianic Jews and Palestinian Christians being repressed in Israel, or maybe the Haitians who are enduring a Cholera epidemic, or any of the other people suffering from all sorts of injustice. I'm sorry if I think there are better things to be angsty about this holiday season then the celebration of Christmas being pushed back into October because the secular community don't care for it's message and corporations want to make a quick buck. I'm also sorry that I sound like a complete jerk in each of these posts. This entire thread just represents an attitude which I've really come to hate in Christianity.

[Cognitive Gear]

You know, taking Latin American History this semester has really opened my eyes to things. Like the fact that the American church wasn't overly involved in those countries while priests who preached a message of help the poor were labeled as communists and killed. Then there's the Syrian church which is probably being persecuted because of what is really starting to look like a misguided war. On top of this, there's my realization of how much my peers (and myself included) rely on slacktivism instead of getting our hands dirty and actually helping people. And then I see this thread, calling me to arms against the commercialization of Christmas with no practical ways to go about it. I guess this Thanksgiving, besides being thankful that I can hang out with my family (like I always do) I'm going to be thankful for the ability to complain about insignificant things while my brother's and sister's in Christ are persecuted, starve and just generally suffer. It'll be the best Thanksgiving ever.

I'm going to take a wild shot in the dark and guess that this thread came at a bad time for you.

Nevertheless, I think that it is perfectly acceptable to complain about small things that only society at large can change, and I think that it is possible to do that and serve the poor in my city at the same time. I also think that it is possible to serve the poor in my city while thinking about those starving in third world countries. What it comes down to is that despite there being bigger problems, there will always be bigger problems than the one you just became aware of.

Personally, I feel that this awareness has actually contributed to the overall slacktivism, as these problems are so large that no effort by an individual will make an impact. When faced with such odds, is it any wonder that most of us sit in front of our computers talking about it instead of doing something? The most that any of us seem to do these days is pray when these problems come to mind. But again, there is nothing preventing us from praying for these larger problems, talking about inconsequential ones, and actively serving the individuals in need in our communities. This isn't a zero-sum game.

Finally, I'd like to clarify that I made this thread hoping that people would continue to celebrate the holidays on their own timetable, as opposed to the one currently being propagated. I don't expect all of America to suddenly agree to a strict schedule. XD

[ShiroiHikari]

Unless, of course, everyone here does pray for the Messianic Jews and Palestinian Christians being repressed in Israel, or maybe the Haitians who are enduring a Cholera epidemic, or any of the other people suffering from all sorts of injustice.

How do you know we don't? I advise you not to jump to such conclusions.

Like Phil said, some of the world's problems are just too big for one person to solve. Heck, even five, ten, or a hundred people can't really solve them all for good. There will always be bad things happening in the world. That's just the way it works.

[Nate]

I made this thread hoping that people would continue to celebrate the holidays on their own timetable

But what if my timetable coincides with the prevailing notion of putting up Christmas stuff on November 1? You can't say "I want people to celebrate the holidays on your own timetable" but then turn around and say "But don't make that timetable start until after Thanksgiving."

[Peanut]

Nevertheless, I think that it is perfectly acceptable to complain about small things that only society at large can change, and I think that it is possible to do that and serve the poor in my city at the same time. I also think that it is possible to serve the poor in my city while thinking about those starving in third world countries. What it comes down to is that despite there being bigger problems, there will always be bigger problems than the one you just became aware of.

I think you're missing what I'm saying, though that is my fault. Basically, I think you've preached to the choir and that there are much more prevalent things that you could encourage Christians to do then something they are already doing. I don't know any Christian or Church which begins celebrating Christmas before Thanksgiving. I'm sure they are out there, but I have a hard time believing their the norm. Based off of the responses in this thread, I don't think anyone else has been buying or supporting Christmas starting before Thanksgiving. So, I think its pointless especially when there are better things that could be encouraged this holiday season.

Personally, I feel that this awareness has actually contributed to the overall slacktivism, as these problems are so large that no effort by an individual will make an impact. When faced with such odds, is it any wonder that most of us sit in front of our computers talking about it instead of doing something? The most that any of us seem to do these days is pray when these problems come to mind. But again, there is nothing preventing us from praying for these larger problems, talking about inconsequential ones, and actively serving the individuals in need in our communities. This isn't a zero-sum game.

I don't agree because I think if people actually cared, they would try and do something. To put it simply, if your bothered by world hunger then actually caring about this means you feed someone. Sure, you can't stop world hunger but you can stop hunger for an individual. Slacktivism really is just there to make us feel better. But, as I look back, this is a moot point. I'm pretty sure that the issues I mentioned were caused by ignorance (in the case of Messianic Jews being persecuted I can tell you with certainty that it is because of ignorance). I do think knowledge in this case would help and yet I consistently see us talking about stuff like the topic of this thread.

How do you know we don't? I advise you not to jump to such conclusions.

Well do you? I mean if you do, then I am projecting my rage against myself against others and that's my problem but all of this hinges on actually answering those questions. I'd honestly be surprised if you did and even more surprised if you did it every day. That's not meant as an insult at all, what I'm saying is I don't think many Christians in America actually know what's going on in the world and because of that don't even pray against it.

Like Phil said, some of the world's problems are just too big for one person to solve. Heck, even five, ten, or a hundred people can't really solve them all for good. There will always be bad things happening in the world. That's just the way it works.

I'm guessing this isn't what you're saying, but I don't think that just because we can't solve the big problems doesn't mean we shouldn't try. We can't bring God's kingdom to Earth, but I do think we should strive to because, hey, if we get close then that's probably not a bad thing.

[Midori]

See, stores realize they sell more products during Christmas than other times of the year...so of course the natural solution is to extend the Christmas season...which of course doesn't actually work to sell more stuff. They do in fact sell more Christmas-themed products that way, but it's more in the "I got these paper cups for our picnic. I hope you don't mind they're Christmas themed; it was all they had." vein.

[Cognitive Gear]

I think you're missing what I'm saying, though that is my fault. Basically, I think you've preached to the choir and that there are much more prevalent things that you could encourage Christians to do then something they are already doing. I don't know any Christian or Church which begins celebrating Christmas before Thanksgiving. I'm sure they are out there, but I have a hard time believing their the norm. Based off of the responses in this thread, I don't think anyone else has been buying or supporting Christmas starting before Thanksgiving. So, I think its pointless especially when there are better things that could be encouraged this holiday season.

This is where I became aware that there has been a complete and total miscommunication. The topic of this thread is not particularly directed to churches, or even specifically to Christians. Perhaps I should be more aware of CAA's primary demographic, but there are some things that I think don't have a defined set of behaviors for Christians. This is one of them.

I don't agree because I think if people actually cared, they would try and do something.

I'm looking at caring as an emotion, not necessarily an action. I think that it is important to make the distinction between "caring" and "loving". Most people care about those that are less fortunate. Few love those that are less fortunate. I think that this is key to the transformative power that love has, actually.

To put it simply, if your bothered by world hunger then actually caring about this means you feed someone. Sure, you can't stop world hunger but you can stop hunger for an individual. Slacktivism really is just there to make us feel better. But, as I look back, this is a moot point. I'm pretty sure that the issues I mentioned were caused by ignorance (in the case of Messianic Jews being persecuted I can tell you with certainty that it is because of ignorance). I do think knowledge in this case would help and yet I consistently see us talking about stuff like the topic of this thread.

I think that we are agreed on this point, though we are coming from different angles. The global impact of my having fed the homeless in my city has no impact on all of the hungry people in various third world countries. It does, however, have potential for significant personal impact on that individual.

Unfortunately, with so many world sized problems, it's very easy to forget how powerful the effect of having served one person can be. Looking over Christ's ministry, it seems that He was more focused on ministering to individuals, and His ministry changed the world. (Please correct me if I am wrong about this. I would love to be wrong about it, as it would make my life so much easier.)

Anyways, to bring this back to slacktivism (really, just to explain my position, I don't think it is all that important), I still think that the knowledge of these huge problems is something that people aren't sure how to handle. When compared to the vast starving populations, the homeless guy in my neighborhood doesn't seem as important. He seems even less important when I start thinking about the populations suffering in war-torn countries. As we add more and more very large problems, the homeless guy gets more and more overlooked. Naturally, we want to spend our energy doing the most good, and suddenly we are looking for some way, any way to help with these impossibly large problems. We eventually find a way in slacktivism, despite it making little or no difference at all.

Well do you? I mean if you do, then I am projecting my rage against myself against others and that's my problem but all of this hinges on actually answering those questions. I'd honestly be surprised if you did and even more surprised if you did it every day. That's not meant as an insult at all, what I'm saying is I don't think many Christians in America actually know what's going on in the world and because of that don't even pray against it.

I do pray about these types of things. Certainly not daily, but monthly. To be entirely honest, I don't know if it really does any good, but I pray in faith that it will. I'm in the sad position that the very least I can do is also the very best I can do.

I'm guessing this isn't what you're saying, but I don't think that just because we can't solve the big problems doesn't mean we shouldn't try. We can't bring God's kingdom to Earth, but I do think we should strive to because, hey, if we get close then that's probably not a bad thing.

This is true, but generally I think that the large scale problems, like world hunger, can only be solved through scientific or economic advances that I am not qualified to work towards. The best I can do is to pray, and to support the teaching of these things to anyone who is willing and able.

[ABlipinTime]

[quote="Midori (post: 1437290)"]See, stores realize they sell more products during Christmas than other times of the year...so of course the natural solution is to extend the Christmas season...which of course doesn't actually work to sell more stuff. They do in fact sell more Christmas-themed products that way, but it's more in the "I got these paper cups for our picnic. I hope you don't mind they're Christmas themed]

I agree. Businessmen are like that.


On side note, for me, the Christmas season is transitioned into while the fall is still going. The fall starts first, and eventually the two seasons overlap, bringing snow-covered orange leaves... *drifts into dream*. The mood seems to be set by George Winston's December song "Thanksgiving".
All I'm really trying to say is that it is perfectly fine to have both the fall and the Christmas season overlap. And by Christmas season, I don't mean anything that has to do with merchandise, but that cheerful season of "peace on earth and goodwill towards men" we experience as the day of Jesus' birthday celebration draws near.