[Mature] Views On Sexuality

[TopazRaven]

As a warning before I even begin, I believe due to what I'm going to be discussing, this thread should be rated mature! Younger viewers, you may not want to read this, I just want to be safe! Also, please note this thread is not meant to offend anyone or cause an argument. I'm just up to sharing my opinion and seeing what some of my fellow Christians think on the matter. So if you're interested, read below, but as another warning this is going to be quite a long post. Also, please forgive me if this is not in the right section. xD

Sexality is something that in modern times has been glorfied and shown off as something natural and acceptable in media all over the world. The question is, is this really true? After all, the bible outright says it is a sin. Here is my beliefs on the matter. I remember when I was in high school sex seemed to be what was on everyone's mind. Personally, I didn't get it. I was the awkward, mildly nerdy anti-social kid who hardly ever talked. I had very few friends and was unfortunate enough to have almost no classes with any of them. Lunch time was always the worst for me. I'd have to pathetically squeeze in at the edge of some table and hope the other people there would take pity on me and leave me alone. If I couldn't find a seat or felt bullied I'd quickly escape to the peace of the school library. I remember in my junior year I was lucky enough to make friends with a girl in my gym class. I finally had a place to sit at lunch! Unfortunately, there where some other not so nice people at this particular table. There where two Spanish girls who once spent an entire lunch period asking me the same question over and over again. Everyone seemed to know what they where asking but me, they all giggled and snickered but didn't let me in on what was so funny. I'm honestly not very good at understating accents and theirs was a bit thick. What where they asking? "Are you a virgin?" The answer was obviously yes, but when I finally understood what they where asking I asked them in return, "why would you want to know?" They just laughed and left.

I still to this day don't understand what the point of that was, but it seemed throughout high school people seemed to know even if they didn't know me personally. It was like I was wearing a huge, "I am a virgin!" sign on my forehead or something. I felt ashamed and embarrassed. I was the only one out of my friends who was a virgin, I'd never even had a boyfriend before. In fact, I've still never had a boyfriend. I still remember in freshman year, I was walking down the hall with two of my friends and they told me how they lost their virginity. I was 16, they where 15 if I remember right. I was horrified inside. I felt so awkward, I didn't want to know this. They both seemed to have lost it to their boyfriends, both which they broke up with soon afterwords. I always felt like they might have judged me because I had not had an experience like this myself. They acted like it was normal. My best friend lost her virginity to her first real boyfriend when she was 16. He cheated on her not to long later and broke her heart. Why are young teenagers willing to so easily give it up? Look at the pain it causes! I think I understand why God has listed pre-marital sex as a sin. He's trying to protect us. There are many terrible consequences. Unwanted pregnancy, STDS as well as heart break and emotional pain. I have a friend who has been through two abortions in the past two years and an older half-sister who had one.

Sex is so glorified in media, nobody ever really stops to think about the consequences. Regardless of wither they are a virgin or not, some people will go at it upon just meeting! The fact that sex has been turned into something purley for pleasure is indeed sickening. People using each other for their own satisfaction. Yet, and you may not agree with me as is your right, I do think in a way sex is a natural desire. Wither we want to admit it or not, we are animals. As animals we do then have animal-like urges from time to time. What is the difference? Unlike a cat or a dog, we know right from wrong and we have, for the most part I believe, a higher understanding of things. So people claiming to have random sex just because it is a natural desire and that they should give into their feelings rather then deny them are in my opinion, just making up excuses. Am I giving off mixed signals here? Probably. I do not think promiscuity is acceptable in the least. However, sex within a loving and committed relationship, where you truly think this is the person you want to spend your life with (regardless if you are married or not) with protection, is acceptable in my book. Many of you will disagree with me. That is fine. Emotion and intimacy play a big part in sex. Which is why often when people are in love they want to be able to share in this special type of bond and emotion. It is not something I can ever hope to fully explain or understand because I have never felt it, but I can understand others who have.

My choice for myself? I'm waiting for marriage, but I don't judge others who choose not to wait. Why am I picking this particular choice for me? Many reasons.

1. ) Even at 21 years of age I am in no way possible ready for sex. The thought honestly horrifies me. It scares me out of perhaps the selfish fear of pain, not only physically but emotionally. And also the worry of unplanned pregnancy or disease. I'm no where near ready to be a mother either.
2.) Nothing in my life has ever happened to make me this way, but I am a very untrusting and paranoid person prone to much worry.
3.) Because I am so untrusting I would need to meet a man who would be willing to be patient with me and understand my beliefs which is why if I ever do go on a date someday I plan to tell him of my views right off the bat.
4.) If I love him and know he truly loves me and he is kind and patient with me then I will know we are meant for each and to me, that calls for marriage.
5.) Sex is not a top priority in my life. I think I could go through life and never have it. Sometimes I do yearn to be with someone, but not in a sexual way. I've always considered myself a non-romantic person, but sometimes I find myself daydreaming about how nice it would be even to just be in the presence of someone I care about and who cares about me in return.

Mind you, I'm not all innocent. No one is reallt are they? I will not lie and say I have never read a sex scene in a novel or a fanfiction, but I do not feel as if it has corrupted my mind. I am no longer ashamed of my virginity, but instead rather proud of it. Of course, I do not let this pride get to my head though. I know what I want for myself in the future as far as a relationship goes and stubborn as I am I'll hold on to it for dear life. Lord help the poor man who has to put up with me. Not only am I untrusting, I can be quite pushy and moody at times to. Besides, I might be able to read sex, but I could never watch it, if that even makes sense. The thought kind of grosses me out. Why would you want to watch two random people going at it? I don't believe in porn. The things those people must go through every day is enough to turn me away from it besides the fact that I don't want to see it. I had the misfortune of my friend dragging me through a store called Spencer's yesterday which pretty much has 'adult' items everywhere and she kept trying to show me stuff well...shaped like the male reproductive organ. I could not look I was so embarrassed! My friends all think me a prude. Though really I'm kind of far from it. I'll admit it. Let God have mercy on me, because I think it's just a part of my personality now. It's strange isn't it though? I have no interest in having sex myself, but I'm kind of a pervert. What in the name of potatoes? Still, feel no need to see naked bodies! Do not want! Lol, by the way the anime review section has been very helpful to me on that category. I like to avoid anime (or anything really) with full on nudity. So thanks to anyone who has ever written an anime review on here!

So my question to you all is, how do you feel about the matter? What do you believe? Do you think me sinful for my veiws? I have been told a few times now that, because I have a few different beliefs, that I am not a real Christian and have brought God's wrath upon me. I love God, I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross to cover our sins and that he is our savior and I study the bible. Plan to read it every day. Just started in Genesis yesterday. Do not these things make me a Christian? Yes, perhaps not a real Christian, but I would still like to think of myself as one. Now, once again, I hope I have not angered or offended anyone! I now bring this to a close! God bless you all and have a nice night!

[Nate]

I can offer my opinion! But...I'm immature so... D:

First of all, the Bible never says sex or sexuality is a sin, anywhere. That's just completely untrue. Second, the Bible never REALLY says that premarital sex is a sin, not explicitly anyway. The closest it comes is Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, when Paul says everyone should remain unmarried, but if they feel they're acting dishonorably to the virgin they're with and their "passions are too strong" then they should marry. It doesn't really say sex, but for most people, it's a pretty heavy implication that's saying "Don't have sex unless you get married first."

And of course, most people take adultery as "having sex with someone who isn't your spouse" and therefore if you do it before marriage, you're committing adultery.

Me? I don't care one way or the other. I don't think premarital sex is necessarily a sin, but I definitely think sleeping around is bad. That may not make sense, I understand. What I'm trying to say is, I think that commitment is vital, and if a couple who wants to get married but can't for whatever reason, like say, they've been together for four years, they don't have the money to get married or something, if they want to have sex even though they're not married, I think sure, whatever, nothing wrong with that. They're committed to each other. But a dude who like...goes around and has sex with women all the time barely knowing them and not even caring about them, yeah, I think he's definitely doing something wrong. Anyway, I know pretty much everyone here disagrees with me, so I'll move on.

Regardless of wither they are a virgin or not, some people will go at it upon just meeting!

If I may quote Jerry Seinfeld here, "People don’t just bump into each other and have sex. This isn't Cinemax."

I don't believe in porn.

That's kind of an odd position to take, I can prove its existence to you if you continue to deny it. :p This is a joke by the way.

The things those people must go through every day is enough to turn me away from it

Eh. Porn is like most other jobs. Some people do it because they can't find other work, they hate it but they need the money. Some people don't like or dislike it, but just see it as a job. It's just what they do. And yeah, some people love doing it and want to do it because it's what they love.

Some of the people involved in it go through hard times, I'm sure, but so do people in any job. Before I quit my job working at a warehouse, we were doing sixty hour weeks and twice I broke down crying and barely able to stand up because I was so stressed, so unable to endure it. And all I was doing was filling boxes to be shipped off to a store.

So yeah, I've heard the horror stories about how people wish they could quit porn but feel trapped and blah blah blah but that's true of every job that exists, porn isn't anything special, it just gets special attention because of its nature.

Porn is boring anyway. I've watched a bit and well...it's repetitive. Uninteresting. The women aren't even that hot anyway, usually. There were guys in the Navy who had some and I watched it just to watch it and eh. I got nothing out of it. So I don't bother watching it anymore, it's just dull.

Anyway I could go on but...eh, I've said enough, and all it would be is me getting into my weird quirks and problems and no one wants to hear about that even if it wasn't against the rules, so I'll shut up now.

[TopazRaven]

Hm, in a way it seems we're both kind of on the same page then. Promiscuity is definitly a big no no!

If I may quote Jerry Seinfeld here, "People don’t just bump into each other and have sex. This isn't Cinemax."

Ahaha, that made me laugh. xD

That's kind of an odd position to take, I can prove its existence to you if you continue to deny it. :p This is a joke by the way.

Oh jeez, that made me laugh even harder. What are you doing to me here!?

Some of the people involved in it go through hard times, I'm sure, but so do people in any job. Before I quit my job working at a warehouse, we were doing sixty hour weeks and twice I broke down crying and barely able to stand up because I was so stressed, so unable to endure it. And all I was doing was filling boxes to be shipped off to a store.

Aw, I'm sorry to hear that. I've only ever had one job before even at my age and I despised it with all of my being. I ended up quiting after only two months. I regret it sometimes now.

Porn is boring anyway. I've watched a bit and well...it's repetitive. Uninteresting. The women aren't even that hot anyway, usually. There were guys in the Navy who had some and I watched it just to watch it and eh. I got nothing out of it. So I don't bother watching it anymore, it's just dull.

Maybe it's because I'm a woman, even with how I am, I could just never watch it. Lol. It's against my morals and it just seems so embarrasing.

[Hiryu]

We all know sex is natural, but people nowadays mistreat and abuse it. Of course, they don't care about what happens to them or other people. It feels good, so I'm going to do it. Short term gain/Long term pain. God wants us to avoid this.

Why are young teenagers willing to so easily give it up? Look at the pain it causes! I think I understand why God has listed pre-marital sex as a sin. He's trying to protect us. There are many terrible consequences. Unwanted pregnancy, STDS as well as heart break and emotional pain. I have a friend who has been through two abortions in the past two years and an older half-sister who had one.

If only more people would recognize and understand this. You are wise to understand this concept.

The Bible tells us that King Solomon once observed a young man being seduced into premarital sex. Solomon compared the young man to “a bull that comes even to the slaughter.” A bull that is to be butchered seems to have no idea what is about to happen to it. Young ones who engage in premarital sex often behave similarly—they seem to show little or no awareness that there are serious consequences to their actions! Solomon said of that young man: “He has not known that it involves his very soul.”(Proverbs 7:21-23)

Premarital Sex is considered Sexual Immorality. Any sex without your wife/husband is sexually immoral, according to the bible.

Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry(Collossians 3:5[NIV])

Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. (1 Corinthians 6:18-20 [NIV])

[ChristianKitsune]

Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry(Colossians 3:5[NIV])



Quote:
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. (1 Corinthians 6:18-20 [NIV]

I've been watching a video series based on this topic: http://www.lifechurch.tv/watch/satans-sex-ed/1

All four of those videos are very educational, and informative about a lot of things that the world and Satan is trying to convince us about sex.

I quoted those verses that Hiryu posted because I wanted to comment on the Collossians 3:5 verse

Some translations say to get rid of any hint of sexual immorality...I learned from those videos that sexual immorality derives from the word Porniea, Does that root word look familiar? It involves pretty much any type of sexual sin.

For me, I feel that sex outside of marriage is a sin. Why? Because sex was meant to be a covenant, between a husband and wife, not a contract. It's holy and awesome and I really believe that's what God intended it for... You can always back out of a contract, but a covenant...is a huge deal. And I believe sex is a huge deal.

But I don't believe that's all we are created to think about XD.

There are so many verses that can relate to not living as the world says is okay. The world says that sex before marriage and test driving and sleeping around is great! "Whatever Feels Good do it!"

But that's not what God said...

We are called to be holy, we are sanctified (Philippians 2)
We are called to not conform to the patterns of this world (Romans 12:2)

Sex is big. The consequences of giving it away are even bigger... It can scar someone, and leave a huge mess that can take years to clean up.

Sometimes, amazingly people don't get hurt by it...but why jump into a pit of lions if you can avoid it? XD


Shoot, I'm 22. I admit I've read some awesome literature that has really intimate scenes in them. I won't lie when I say I enjoyed them. They were fun to read...but at the same time I could tell that I was beginning to dwell on them, and think about them more than I should have.

When something, anything comes between you and your relationship with Christ then it's time to take a step back and readjust your focus...which is what I had to do a few times in may past. I thought I was mature enough to handle that type of stuff, I'm not.

I also am single, and I hope I won't be alone forever. XD But I guess that comes down to trusting in God.

[TopazRaven]

Premarital Sex is considered Sexual Immorality. Any sex without your wife/husband is sexually immoral, according to the bible.

I do indeed know this now. I'll try to follow the bible as best I can, but as said before, I do have some beliefs of my own that many other's would question. I can indeed understand though why such a thing is listed as a sin.

[Nate]

I ended up quiting after only two months. I regret it sometimes now.

I as well regret quitting my job sometimes, too, but like I said...I fell to the floor crying and shaking not just once, but twice when I was working there so...even though I kind of wish I hadn't quit, it probably was the best thing I could have done.

Maybe it's because I'm a woman, even with how I am, I could just never watch it.

It could be because you're a woman. Not being sexist, what I mean is, the way humanity is set up and what's best for survival is, one gender has to want sex a lot, and the other has to not want it very much. If both genders didn't want it very much, humanity would go extinct, and if both genders wanted it a lot, we'd be too busy having sex to get anything else done.
[quote]The Bible tells us that King Solomon once observed a young man being seduced into premarital sex. Solomon compared the young man to “]
<modsnip: Please be polite. See this thread about that.> Read the verses before that.

19 My husband is not at home;
he has gone on a long journey.
20 He took his purse filled with money
and will not be home till full moon.”

21 With persuasive words she led him astray;
she seduced him with her smooth talk.
22 All at once he followed her
like an ox going to the slaughter,

Emphasis mine. This wasn't about a man being seduced into premarital sex, it's about a husband being seduced into adultery. Thus, it cannot be used to go against premarital sex. As I said before, the only verses that can really be said to be against premarital sex are certain interpretations of adultery, and what Paul says in 1 Corinthians. If you define premarital sex as sexual immorality, then any verse preaching against sexual immorality can be included too...but again, only IF you define it as such, which I don't necessarily, as explained above.

[TopazRaven]

Sometimes, amazingly people don't get hurt by it...but why jump into a pit of lions if you can avoid it? XD

Ahaha, lovely metaphor! I agree with you on the point of sex being a big deal and not something to be thrown away at random certainly. It bothers me that so many teenagers do. It seems the age people have sex keeps getting younger and younger. 12 and 13 year olds are doing it now and I find this really really disturbing.

[ChristianKitsune]

[quote="Nate (post: 1434490)"]I as well regret quitting my job sometimes, too, but like I said...I fell to the floor crying and shaking not just once, but twice when I was working there so...even though I kind of wish I hadn't quit, it probably was the best thing I could have done.

It could be because you're a woman. Not being sexist, what I mean is, the way humanity is set up and what's best for survival is, one gender has to want sex a lot, and the other has to not want it very much. If both genders didn't want it very much, humanity would go extinct, and if both genders wanted it a lot, we'd be too busy having sex to get anything else done.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Wrong. That's so wrong. I can't believe how utterly wrong that is. Read the verses before that.

19 My husband is not at home]

Not to invoke an argument here... But didn't Jesus say that if a man were to even look at woman lustfully he has already committed adultery in his heart? (I'll have to find the reference for this)

And I'm going to add this:
When we have sex before marriage there is no guarantee that we going to marry that person, and if we don't then we are sleeping with someone's husband or wife... isn't that adultery?

Gah this can get into such a tangled web if you really think about it...JUSt talking about Premarital sex is messy! I can't imagine doing it! XD.

Like... I don't want to sleep with a guy, and then not get married and then have the knowledge that I slept with another girl's husband...I mean that's just a bit messed up if you ask me... :/

[ich1990]

I do not think promiscuity is acceptable in the least. However, sex within a loving and committed relationship, where you truly think this is the person you want to spend your life with (regardless if you are married or not) with protection, is acceptable in my book.

Me? I don't care one way or the other. I don't think premarital sex is necessarily a sin, but I definitely think sleeping around is bad. That may not make sense, I understand. What I'm trying to say is, I think that commitment is vital, and if a couple who wants to get married but can't for whatever reason, like say, they've been together for four years, they don't have the money to get married or something, if they want to have sex even though they're not married, I think sure, whatever, nothing wrong with that.

I think you guys are mostly right. A lot of people seem to mistakenly assume that only a state-sanctioned marriage is a real one, accepted by God. That isn't what the Bible says, and betrays a rather disturbing level of state control over religious practices. For the record, Jesus, in Mathew 19 is pretty clear:

"Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

So, yeah, lifetime monogamous relationships where the two "have become one flesh" are marriage, and approved by God. I don't see anywhere that this has to be officiated. This, however, does not make marriage any less serious of a commitment.

[Ante Bellum]

Hm. I saw the word "sexuality" and showed up prepared to give this long rant/speech thing and then it turns out to just be general sex. Well, there go my plans.

[musicaloddball]

Great post, TopazRaven! I am a virgin also, and I am proud of it. I'm glad you are now proud of it also.

I believe that sex is not only natural, but sacred. Life is a sacred gift from God, and sex is the way that God chooses to bring new human beings into this world. Because it is sacred, I believe that a man and woman must have their union specially blessed by God, or rather get married, before having sex.

Premarital Sex is considered Sexual Immorality. Any sex without your wife/husband is sexually immoral, according to the bible.

I just wanted to add to this. Sexual immorality includes pre-marital sex because this was the belief of Paul. I believe that we cannot just interpret the Bible however we want; we have to look at exactly what the specific author intended to say. And Paul surely meant pre-marital sex to be a part of sexual immorality. It is an indubitable historical fact that pre-marital sex was considered immoral by Christians and Jews of that era.

[TopazRaven]

Hm. I saw the word "sexuality" and showed up prepared to give this long rant/speech thing and then it turns out to just be general sex. Well, there go my plans.

xD Sorry about that? I suppose I should have named the thread differently.

[Nate]

Not to invoke an argument here... But didn't Jesus say that if a man were to even look at woman lustfully he has already committed adultery in his heart?

Yep. But you're assuming that having premarital sex is equivalent to lust. That's an assumption you can't make]When we have sex before marriage there is no guarantee that we going to marry that person, and if we don't then we are sleeping with someone's husband or wife... isn't that adultery? [/QUOTE]
If you've been with someone four years, have been talking about getting married, are committed to getting married, but are scared the other person will somehow not commit just because you have sex, I'd classify you as distrustful, and if you don't trust someone after four years, well, that's your business.

I'm not saying it's bad for you to be distrustful. And if you wouldn't do it, I'm not going to call you dumb, or say you're wrong. But I'm saying you're judging others by your own personal feelings, which I'm not a fan of. Romans 14 and all that, and all that.

[Cognitive Gear]

We all know sex is natural, but people nowadays mistreat and abuse it. Of course, they don't care about what happens to them or other people. It feels good, so I'm going to do it. Short term gain/Long term pain. God wants us to avoid this.

Whoah, let's back up for a moment. It's fine that you passionately disagree with the choices that other people make, but I don't think that we should jump to conclusions about their character. Taken on a large scale, people do care about others and what happens to them. It's why there are so many secular charity organizations, and in specific relation to sex, it's why we invented "safe sex". No one wants to spread disease or end up with an unwanted or unexpected pregnancy.

As to the rest of this conversation:

Personally, I think that the Bible, while never explicitly stating that we are not to have sex outside of marriage, makes an implicit case that sex and marriage are linked together.

As such, I have chosen to hold off on sex until marriage. There are other reasons for me to hold off, such as the emotional bond created with the first person you have sex with. With the divorce rate being so incredibly high these days, I'll take all of the help my future marriage can get.

[armeck]

i'm going to wait until marriage for ethical reasons rather than moral ones

[Etoh*the*Greato]

i'm going to wait until marriage for ethical reasons rather than moral ones

What is the implied difference between ethical and moral, in this case, wand what ethical reasons are you doing this for, rather than moral?

I'm not criticising you, I just wanted to know a little bit more about this particular comment.

[TopazRaven]

As such, I have chosen to hold off on sex until marriage. There are other reasons for me to hold off, such as the emotional bond created with the first person you have sex with. With the divorce rate being so incredibly high these days, I'll take all of the help my future marriage can get.

Agreed completley! Lol. It's ashame the way marriages turn out these days.

[Nate]

What is the implied difference between ethical and moral

[Yamamaya]

Keep in mind that marriage in the Bible wasn't necessarily all that sacred either. Men found a loophole around the no adultery law by having lots of wives!

Having a sex drive is not immoral. It's the way species survive. Species that don't reproduce enough will die out.

We're going down the wrong path when we view sex as a score, an achievement. We think of sex as like collecting coins in a Sonic or Mario game, the more the better! If you don't have any, then you suck. Modern society tends to isolate the virgins and put them down. Getting laid becomes just another way to judge others and to raise oneself above others.

But there is a ton of hypocrisy in this ideology of, "Having sex a lot is awesome." For one, if a girl has sex a large amount of the time, she is considered a slut. If a guy gets it all the time, he's considered to be an awesome stud.

To those who say sex is an animal instinct and we need to always act on our instincts, I will say to them that if someone always acted on their animal instincts, society could not exist. Animals respond to a great deal of threats with fight or flight. If we chose to use our animal instincts to guide us, then we would be getting into fights over every threat, whether real or imaginary(nations still do this sometimes). Or we would be running away from every person we perceived as a threat. It wouldn't be good if we dashed out of class every time the teacher was about to assign a really hard assignment!

[Strafe]

I figure that there is no set "Age Limit" on these things, so it's more up to self discretion on whether or not to participate in this thread. And my position as an adolescent male has not been represented yet, so I figure I might as well contribute.

I always dislike it when things are theoretically black and white, because that's not how it always works on the small scale. While "Sin is bad" will always be "right" in the Christian Framework, the small case by case situations can blur the line between sin and righteousness. It goes case by case obviously. Some situations are black and white, some aren't. You have to figure out what's what. While the bible says, "Thou Shalt not commit adultery," the meaning and extent of adultery has to be defined still. Is premarital sex adultery? Figure it out for yourself based on the core principles of Christianity, which may differ subjectively anyways. I couldn't tell you what to believe.

But you cannot say premarital sex is not a problem just as much as you cannot say it is always a problem. As Nate put up that example of the couple who could not afford marriage, we can see that there are some questionable situations. Whether or not they are valid exceptions to the "rule" is up to them and their own belief, but large generalizations should probably be avoided as a rule of thumb so as not to be wrong when an exception does present itself.

In that case, when you cannot say such types of sex are good or bad, you can attach principles to the case by case situation. "Whatever is sin is bad." Well. That's probably the most vague thing anyone could say about sin, but it goes into things like, does this hurt the other person? Am I loving the other person? Am I willing to and can I take responsibility in accordance with my own beliefs for what happens as a result? Things like that.

It just so happens that very frequently, premarital sex does hurt the couple, does involve lust, and does end badly, so people tend to assume that it will always hurt any couple who has premarital sex. Dealing within Christian framework, it is not recommended to have sexual relations prior to marriage, as there is a high chance of infringing upon the Christian framework itself. If premarital sex could be done without anyone getting hurt, then all to it. Most of the time though, it can't.

This scenario about the couple is actually rather interesting, as there are plenty of arguments to that one.

It's just like Masturbation. If it could be done without lust, then there would be no problem. It just so happens that it does most of the time. Not to permanently condemn masturbation of course, as there may exist people who can masturbate without improper arousal in lust of another human being that "is another man's/ woman's wife/ husband." They should be tested to see if they posses inheritable genes... <_<

Ahem...

Now me personally, I could not masturbate or have premarital sex without hurting me or both of us, so I just stay out entirely.

I've dabbled in relationships as well to find that I ended up hurting both me and my ex girlfriend, so I stay away from that too. Does that mean dating is always bad? no. But as long as it hurts the other person, it is.

I think it's a fairly decent way to go about things. Of course, I could be rather wrong being a kid.

[armeck]

What is the implied difference between ethical and moral, in this case, wand what ethical reasons are you doing this for, rather than moral?

I'm not criticising you, I just wanted to know a little bit more about this particular comment.

moral is something you don't do because it is a sin, ethical is something you don't do because it is socially wrong, or culturally wrong, like some places it is considered rude to point your foot at someone, i would consider that ethics. my definition of ethics really is rules that are not based of of faith, this may be a wrong definition but it is what i mean, i want to wait because i don't want my relationship with the wife i may or may not have (i'm still single and all) to be about sex, i want it to be based off of who we are as people, rather than sex, and i think waiting until marriage is one of many ways we can achieve that. just my thoughts anyway

[ShiroiHikari]

Anyway, I know pretty much everyone here disagrees with me, so I'll move on.

For once, you are wrong about something.

I agree with you completely.

Personally, I'm sick of seeing people beat themselves up because they have a sex drive. Wanting to have sex is not a sin. Hurting other people by making unscrupulous decisions regarding sex is what's truly sinful.

Also the last time I checked, Christ's blood covers and washes away our sins. So when we screw up-- not IF, but WHEN --we should repent and learn our lessons from it and then resolve not to do it again if at all possible. If you're walking with Christ, then you're not going to be condemned.

And I'm with Phil: let's not be so quick to cast people who are more sexually active than ourselves in a negative light. Maybe some people have poor self-control. Maybe they just really like sex and don't have the same standards as we do. It's not really our place to judge them. That's between them and God.

[Nate]

But you cannot say premarital sex is not a problem just as much as you cannot say it is always a problem.

Right. That's the position I was advocating above. If a couple had been together for a long time and were committed, I don't think they'd be wrong to have sex. But if a single guy was all "Man I wanna get laid" and hit up some chick at a bar or something and had sex with her, I personally feel yeah, he's wrong to do that.

It's just like Masturbation.

I'm absolutely not going to get into THIS. That's a can of worms that should probably stay shut. Also everyone would think I'm a sinful evil heathen.

Men found a loophole around the no adultery law by having lots of wives!

That wasn't a loophole, the Law does not condemn having multiple wives, it merely says "If you have multiple wives, be sure to follow these laws." Also, remember that it was also the law that if a man died without having children, it was his brother's duty to marry the woman (even if he was already married).

if a girl has sex a large amount of the time, she is considered a slut. If a guy gets it all the time, he's considered to be an awesome stud.

If a key can open many locks, it's a master key.

If a lock can be opened by many keys, it's a crappy lock.

[Dante]

I don't believe in porn.

That's kind of an odd position to take, I can prove its existence to you if you continue to deny it. :p This is a joke by the way.

No Nate. I'm afraid you're wrong. I don't believe there is porn for women, porn is exclusively designed for men. Porn for women simply DNE.

The Bible tells us that King Solomon once observed a young man being seduced into premarital sex. Solomon compared the young man to “]

King Solomon also had 700 wives. Given that he lived to about 80 and puberty starts at 13, he had 67 years to acquire them... hence he "married" another women practically every month. I don't think he's the best guy to be picking on other people for "sexual immorality". When it comes down to people like him, marriage and hooking up for the night is only a matter of language.

To those who say sex is an animal instinct and we need to always act on our instincts, I will say to them that if someone always acted on their animal instincts, society could not exist.

Society does not exist. It is a figment of your imagination and a mass delusion. There is no physical proof of a thing called society. What we refer to as society is simply an effervescent event were multiple people do the same thing because they see others doing it. Once a couple of people act the same, the others follow because they assume the mimicry is important to their survival. Ergo, the fictional thing known as "society" only exists because you follow your animal instincts, not because you don't follow them. That is to say, you lean more towards a mimicry survival behavior instead of an experimental one that seeks to explore "unique" patterns of survival... your life's interesting factor has a very dismal future. Furthermore, this pattern of behavior suggests that you will always be moved by fear and bow before the graven idol when everyone else bows. That is society. Not bowing to the idol is to cause variation, dissent and to otherwise give others the idea that humans might not choose to act the same. Without this, order is impossible, you are no longer controlled but control yourself. But if you follow, you still bow to the idol.

Society does not exist for me. But then again, I am actively seeking to build my animal instincts that run counter to the choices of the mass. I wish to start violating mass mimicry where possible to experiment with different modes of survival. Perhaps I too would still bow before the idol, but the day when that will not occur is approaching. Hopefully with haste.

[Nate]

No Nate. I'm afraid you're wrong. I don't believe there is porn for women, porn is exclusively designed for men. Porn for women simply DNE.

Ha ha, good one. :p The sad thing is if you went back in time fifty years or so, people actually believed that. :\

[Atria35]

No Nate. I'm afraid you're wrong. I don't believe there is porn for women, porn is exclusively designed for men. Porn for women simply DNE.

Sorry, Pascal. I'm calling you out on this one. There is most definitely porn for women. I have a female friend who has a whole collection of porn geared towards women.

[mechana2015]

No Nate. I'm afraid you're wrong. I don't believe there is porn for women, porn is exclusively designed for men. Porn for women simply DNE.

Somebody's never read a Harlequin romance novel.

[ShiroiHikari]

Society does not exist. It is a figment of your imagination and a mass delusion. There is no physical proof of a thing called society. What we refer to as society is simply an effervescent event were multiple people do the same thing because they see others doing it. Once a couple of people act the same, the others follow because they assume the mimicry is important to their survival. Ergo, the fictional thing known as "society" only exists because you follow your animal instincts, not because you don't follow them. That is to say, you lean more towards a mimicry survival behavior instead of an experimental one that seeks to explore "unique" patterns of survival... your life's interesting factor has a very dismal future. Furthermore, this pattern of behavior suggests that you will always be moved by fear and bow before the graven idol when everyone else bows. That is society. Not bowing to the idol is to cause variation, dissent and to otherwise give others the idea that humans might not choose to act the same. Without this, order is impossible, you are no longer controlled but control yourself. But if you follow, you still bow to the idol.

Society does not exist for me. But then again, I am actively seeking to build my animal instincts that run counter to the choices of the mass. I wish to start violating mass mimicry where possible to experiment with different modes of survival. Perhaps I too would still bow before the idol, but the day when that will not occur is approaching. Hopefully with haste.

I'm sorry, what? So...are you implying that all human beings only mimic each other's behaviors and don't have an independent thought in their heads? That's....that's, uh, wow.

[Nate]

Yeah, porn for women does exist. It's called "porn."

Society does not exist. It is a figment of your imagination and a mass delusion.

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