Girls-HELP! how to get rid of a 'stalker'

[Wyntre Rose]

Wow, a checklist for a wife. That doesn't sound like your standards are too high at all, nope. I can just imagine it now.

"Well, you fit qualities A, B, C, D, E, and G, but not F...sorry, not good enough to be my girlfriend! But as a consolation prize, you can be my friend and I can complain to you about every other girl I meet and get feelings for who doesn't even meet half the qualities you do!"

Looking for a wife isn't The Price is Right and saying "Aw you didn't get the Plinko chip in any of the good slots BUT HERE'S A LOVELY CONSOLATION PRIZE!" it comes off as kind of a jerk, no offense.

EDIT:

Only because the government made it illegal. :l

I can see where you're coming from Nate, but there are certain qualities that are essential in a marriage that just aren't in a friendship. Take a good friend of mine who is incredibly sweet, generous, lots of fun to hang out with, whom I can talk to about anything. The catch? He doesn't find divorce sinful. Personally, I do. Now, would someone being ok with the idea of a divorce make me want to be his friend any less? Of course not. But that certainly is something that makes me think twice about wanting to marry him.

Or yet again, I personally have been a missionary to several countries. Though I'm not doing that actively right now, I haven't closed myself off to the possibility of it ever happening again. So a man that wouldn't be open to answering the call to missions wouldn't be a good fit for me. But I am friends with tons of people that wouldn't be a foreign missionary.

[Nate]

I can see where you're coming from Nate, but there are certain qualities that are essential in a marriage that just aren't in a friendship.

The only one I can see is physical attractiveness, which again I admit is absolutely true. But short of that? I don't see it.

He doesn't find divorce sinful. Personally, I do. Now, would someone being ok with the idea of a divorce make me want to be his friend any less? Of course not. But that certainly is something that makes me think twice about wanting to marry him.

*shrug* That's your decision, and only your own. I have no right to judge it. I will say it seems weird to me, that I don't understand. Just because he doesn't find divorce sinful doesn't mean he'll just divorce you at the drop of a hat. If I found a nice girl who thought vigilante justice wasn't a sin, that doesn't mean she's going to start acting like the Punisher.

But again, that's just how I feel. You obviously feel differently, which is fine.

So a man that wouldn't be open to answering the call to missions wouldn't be a good fit for me.

Okay, that's another good situation where you might be physically attracted to someone, be excellent friends with them, and still not want to date them. I can accept that. Of course, I'm of the mindset that "God will work things out somehow" so...yeah.

[Wyntre Rose]

*shrug* That's your decision, and only your own. I have no right to judge it. I will say it seems weird to me, that I don't understand. Just because he doesn't find divorce sinful doesn't mean he'll just divorce you at the drop of a hat. If I found a nice girl who thought vigilante justice wasn't a sin, that doesn't mean she's going to start acting like the Punisher.

True, but would you want her on your team if you were a part of the established law enforcement? It would seem kinda risky to me.

I guess for me, I wouldn't want to get into a relationship that I consider permanent with someone who doesn't also consider it as such. I want someone who is just as committed as I am to making it work, and to surviving the long haul.

But that's just the way I feel.

[Nate]

I dunno that him thinking divorce isn't sinful equates to him considering a relationship isn't permanent. But I can't think of a good example or analogy. XP My brain isn't working properly at the moment. I blame my bitterness and explosion of frustration in this thread for that. I mean man who would've thought emotion would override logic? God should install a bypass circuit or something.

[Atria35]

I guess for me, I wouldn't want to get into a relationship that I consider permanent with someone who doesn't also consider it as such. I want someone who is just as committed as I am to making it work, and to surviving the long haul.

I can see what you're saying. But since I've seen a lot of women in abusive relationships that also don't believe in divorce, I'd be thinking that keeping the options open isn't always a bad thing >.>" There's nothing more heartbreaking than see a woman who wants to stick it out with someone who wants their wife to make them a sandwich, even though the wife is on bedrest on doctor's orders or she'll miscarry and possibly bleed out due to medical complications.

On the subject at hand, I know that I look for different qualities in a friend than a best friend. I will say that while I'm willing to compromise on some, there are other qualities that are a must.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

The only one I can see is physical attractiveness, which again I admit is absolutely true. But short of that? I don't see it.

It is definitely your prerogative to believe that. But as you can see, not everyone feels the same way (as evident by both Wintyre and I). I hope that you may respect this.

[Yamamaya]

It seems to be a fact of the universe that the introverted guy who may not possess the intense self confidence of the muscle bound idiot is always going to be left behind.


I feel ya Nate. You're not the only bitter male here. People do seem to be very illogical with their dating standards. They'll date a complete dbag but ignore their great friend. After all, if someone is so great then why don't you date them? I can see choosing not to date someone so as not to destroy your friendship but still.

Also all these standards for spouses seem a bit silly to me. You might miss out on someone very special just because they don't fufill criteria no 3.

I see MrSmartyPants mentioned clothes, appearance, social manerisms, and other such things as things one might need to change. I guess all that stuff about being yourself is just bull then. Such is the way of life.

[goldenspines]

Oh wow, we getting off topic in here. XD
I sure hope we helped Airichan and aren't just abusing her thread and not giving her enough help.

Concerning the discussion at hand, for something as personal and close to the heart such as choosing someone to marry, not all approaches will work for everyone (such as the "s/he must have A,B,C,D,E, and F qualities"), since everyone is different in personalities. Therefore, your idea for finding a spouse may not work that well for someone else, and could, in fact, seem very illogical to them. Is that bad? No. Why not? Because they aren't you and they see things differently. Plus, it's their spouse they're choosing.


That being said, for the sake of Airichan, I would like the thread to get back on topic if at all possible. Because this thread is to help her deal with a "stalker" dude and unless she wants spouse choosing advice (I'll let her make the call on that), we should respect the original thread topic.

[Htom Sirveaux]

@Goldie: I wholeheartedly agree, honestly I do, but first please allow me to make this one statement as I've missed the opportunity until just now.

@Yamamaya (& Nate):

[Quote=Yamamaya]I find that idea to be absolutely cruel[/quote]
Yes.

and ridiculous

Yes! Thank you! Of course it wasn't entirely serious. It sounds too "cruel and ridiculous" to be 100% for real. In retrospect however, I do realize that this probably wasn't so obvious to anyone apart from myself.

I wouldn't seriously recommend slapping a guy unless he was getting outright lewd or something. But in this case I don't see that happening.

Okay. *Irish Cop Voice* All right, show's over, nothin' ta see here. . . .


On topic, in all seriousness, I would suggest something along the lines of, "You and I are always gonna be friends, but never more than that." Perhaps even offer to help him find someone. That might help drive it home while minimizing the pain.

[Yuki-Anne]

I think it might be fitting to branch this discussion of dating standards and whether one can be friends with a great guy or gal but not be attracted to them to another thread, because I have about fifteen cents to throw into the pot...

Also, this thread deserves about a million frownie faces for how sad it makes me. I'm sorry, guys. We girls can be totally awful and not even see it.

On topic: Airi, in addition to what I've said in the past, I think that unless he brings up that he likes you and wants to date you, maybe you should just leave it be and treat him no differently than you would treat any of your other guy friends. It could be that he likes you and doesn't know how to express it properly, or it could be that he's just an awkward fellow with boundaries that differ from yours. I've had it happen to me a lot where I didn't even like a guy, but he misinterpreted a lot of my actions and started getting awkward around me. Guy/girl situations are complicated, and I think there's no need for speculation to make it more complicated. I'm not saying that's what you're doing or anything, but I don't think it's necessary to make the situation any more awkward by pushing a conversation that may never need to happen.

So unless he states unequivocally that he likes you and he wants to take your relationship to the next level, I think you should just be kind to him, and tolerate his awkwardness, unless he does something that makes you incredibly uncomfortable (like that one girl with the kissing bandit). It could be that he needs a normal friendship with a patient person to teach him how to behave normally around girls.

EDIT: Okay, I just reread the original post, and... yeah. That is awkward But I've had guy friends who didn't like me tell me encouraging things about my appearance, and those are welcome compliments to me. All the guys who've posted in this thread have gotten me back in touch with my compassionate side, so my advice is: please be kind to the poor fellow. His only crime appears to be liking you.

Also, about the girl who dated him before: I would be very careful about using an ex-girlfriend's testimony to paint a picture of a guy's character. No matter how honest that girl is, the emotions surrounding a break-up may still have clouded her opinion of him. You're only getting one side of the story. His side may be very different, or there may be nuances and aspects of the relationship that she's missed or isn't relating, that you can't understand until you see his side. So I'd say you should be hesitant about using gossip to frame your opinion of someone. Especially at a Christian school. I went to one of those for 4 1/2 years (granted, it was a college, not a high school), and I've seen how nasty it can get for a decent guy who's just made a few mistakes.

EDIT: Also, I can't resist. Nate: If none of my Plinko chips make it in, is the consolation prize, like, just a box of chocolates, or is it a new car or a super comfy couch? This is an important distinction that must be made.

[Mithrandir]

*pops in to post something on-topic*

I don't think it's off-topic to toss in this piece of advice: Be sure you communicate completely whatever idea you eventually decide to express. I'd sum up a great deal of hurt in my own life as "communication that did not actually communicate the correct feeling or thought from one person to another." You know, "miscommunication," as it were. { What the heck?!? Firefox doesn't think that's a real word. A web browser that is used to post on Internet-based forums doesn't know that word?!? Oh the IRONY! XD }

Anyway, as many of you have seen on interwebs postings, miscommunication happens pretty frequently - even in conversations where emotions are NOT running heavy. When the feelings are involved, we tend to misread words, misunderstand each other, etc. Please don't forget that lesson when you go to communication IRL.

[Kaori]

I want to point out something from the OP that no one else seems to have addressed:

he also 'creeps' on my sister too. He creeps on a lot of people actually.

Airichan, please correct me if I’m wrong, but what you wrote makes it sound like this guy is showing the same degree of attention that he gives to you to several other girls, all within the same timeframe (as opposed to something like, “he liked Martha two years ago, but now he likes Mary insteadâ€

[Nate]

We still don't know what she means by the phrase "creeps on." And I think we might've scared her away from her own thread so... :\

Like I said before and will continue to say, unattractive guys who act nice tend to be viewed as creepy. If the guy was handsome, it wouldn't be an issue for most girls. Because again, she hasn't explained his behavior beyond "He says nice things to me a lot." Again, I am perfectly willing to admit there might be more to the story, but I just can't judge this dude unless I know more things he does. And until then, I disagree with the assumption that he is showing romantic attention to multiple girls at once...if anything, the most I'd say is he finds several girls attractive at once. Which, well, so what? If there's a lot of attractive girls around, what's wrong with finding them all attractive? Now, trying to get with all of them at once, yeah, that wouldn't be cool, but complimenting them on their looks all at the same time? Don't see a problem with that.

Then again, I'm not the jealous type. *shrug*

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Nate. Not necessarily true. There are plenty of unattractive guys that do not come off as creepy, and I know some guys who girls think are both attractive and creepy (like a friend of mine). It's not appearance. But mannersisms and behaviors.

Doing things like following a girl around campus, and generally behaving at a good-friend level when the established friendship is not curretly at that level is considered creepy by most women. It's not looks that makes someone creepy. It's a lack or deficiency of social skills.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

We still don't know what she means by the phrase "creeps on." And I think we might've scared her away from her own thread so... :\

Like I said before and will continue to say, unattractive guys who act nice tend to be viewed as creepy. If the guy was handsome, it wouldn't be an issue for most girls. Because again, she hasn't explained his behavior beyond "He says nice things to me a lot." Again, I am perfectly willing to admit there might be more to the story, but I just can't judge this dude unless I know more things he does. And until then, I disagree with the assumption that he is showing romantic attention to multiple girls at once...if anything, the most I'd say is he finds several girls attractive at once. Which, well, so what? If there's a lot of attractive girls around, what's wrong with finding them all attractive? Now, trying to get with all of them at once, yeah, that wouldn't be cool, but complimenting them on their looks all at the same time? Don't see a problem with that.

Then again, I'm not the jealous type. *shrug*

Well... I mean, yes, and no. Having been on the both sides of the boat it is entirely possible for 'unattractive' (IE not the popular guys) dudes to be creepy in ways that even handsome guys would get slapped for. And again, having witnessed (And been on to a certain extent) both sides of that aisle, it's often the case that the "unattractive" (again notice the quotes) guys are being genuinely creepy - without realizing it more often than not, but still.

He should have it made clear that she's not interested, but it shouldn't be done in a cold way. There needs to be a certain amount of compassion there. A lot of people in this situation want to do things right, and if they're given advice by someone who genuinely cares about helping them it can turn things around - as long as they're interested in changing. Otherwise, it can lead to cases like a lot of my friends where they simply swear up and down that the 'old ways of chivalry' have died out and that people only want to date jerks... Which isn't really the case with most women interestingly enough.

Like you said, we don't really know how creepy "creep-on" is, so it's hard to say but I've seen popular guys act the way that some of the more introverted cases can act towards girls and get outright slapped where as the same attitude from the introverted guy would cause the person to either shy away from them or try to offer them advice.

[Yamamaya]

Nate. Not necessarily true. There are plenty of unattractive guys that do not come off as creepy, and I know some guys who girls think are both attractive and creepy (like a friend of mine). It's not appearance. But mannersisms and behaviors.

Doing things like following a girl around campus, and generally behaving at a good-friend level when the established friendship is not curretly at that level is considered creepy by most women. It's not looks that makes someone creepy. It's a lack or deficiency of social skills.

Yes at times this is the case but at other times women seem to be more willing to judge an unattractive/average male as creepy than if the male is some hunk.

For example a girl sees some obese dude walking down the street wearing a metal band t-shirt. He says hi to them. They shy away. Now a handsome guy comes around wearing that same t-shirt and says Hi and they all swoon.

The fat guy feels like he has to do more to be noticed hence the reason why his behavior is sometimes interpreted as creepy whereas the good looking guy thinks he's all that and a bag of chips so he doesn't feel the need to act in that manner.

[Radical Dreamer]

Yes at times this is the case but at other times women seem to be more willing to judge an unattractive/average male as creepy than if the male is some hunk.

For example a girl sees some obese dude walking down the street wearing a metal band t-shirt. He says hi to them. They shy away. Now a handsome guy comes around wearing that same t-shirt and says Hi and they all swoon.

The fat guy feels like he has to do more to be noticed hence the reason why his behavior is sometimes interpreted as creepy whereas the good looking guy thinks he's all that and a bag of chips so he doesn't feel the need to act in that manner.

One thing to consider is that for many girls, being approached and hit on by a strange guy they don't know is not that flattering, regardless of whether or not he's good-looking. This is possibly because many of us like to think that guys might be interested in us for reasons beyond just our looks. There's a dividing line, I think, between how a girl will react to a guy she's familiar with, as opposed to how she'll react to a complete stranger on the street that she doesn't know from Adam.

Additionally, it's absolutely possible for a guy to be unattractive and still not be creepy. I have plenty of guy friends that I am not at all attracted to, but I'm not creeped out by them because they don't go out of their way to hit on me. Most of them also have a good idea of boundaries and not coming on too strong anyways. Most of the creepy guys I've encountered have simply come on too strong when they barely even know me, which often immediately turns me away (especially when the information they do know about me has simply come from stalking my Facebook or the fact that they saw me reading a Batman comic once XD).

I think the example you're giving is pretty faulty, though. I mean, there are plenty of classically handsome guys who come across as sleazy and into themselves, which is typically an instant turn-off (to me, at least). Like I mentioned before, it doesn't matter who's doing the cat-calling]is[/i] cat-calling puts him into the Creeper category. Does that make sense? XD I feel like this post is just me repeating myself a bunch of times, but hopefully I'm getting my point across. XD

[Htom Sirveaux]

Okay ladies, since this is (loosely) connected, can I ask . . . Why do nice guys finish last? What is it you want, exactly?
Or is that a topic for another thread? Though it seems to me this thread has long since lost its original purpose (and for all we know, the issue may have been resolved by now) and is now skipping freely from topic-to-topic anyhow.

[steenajack]

I have no idea what Htom meant with what he said by his question, but I really am curious how it's going with Airi. Airichan, if you're reading this now, could you tell us if everything turned out okay?

[Nate]

Why do nice guys finish last? What is it you want, exactly?

I'm not a lady, but I can tell you what I've heard and read.

The reason girls don't go for the "nice guys" is a couple of reasons. The first one is, they seem too needy, too dependent. They're always going out of their way to do things for the girl, they always want to do this, always want to do that...it can feel a little overbearing. Smothering the girl, almost.

The second is that the nice guy won't usually be a man. Because the nice guy wants so desperately to be nice, it means that they usually leave all the decision-making to the woman in order to avoid hurting her feelings. For example, the woman says "What do you want for dinner tonight?" and the nice guy will almost invariably respond "Whatever you want." This forces the woman to make the decision...which is okay at times, but it's pretty much every single time, and this can be very stressful. "I want to watch whatever movie YOU want to watch," "I want to go wherever YOU want to go," and so forth. The nice guy won't just up and say "Y'know, I'll take you out to this place tonight" or "I've been wanting to see this movie, let's go watch it."

Anyway, those are the two biggest reasons that I've heard.

[ShiroiHikari]

I married a "nice guy" so I may be the wrong person to ask. >_>

[Htom Sirveaux]

Hmm. Interesting points there. Not knowing jack about relationships myself, this is good information.

You delicate, ladylike flower, you.

[Cognitive Gear]

Okay ladies, since this is (loosely) connected, can I ask . . . Why do nice guys finish last? What is it you want, exactly?

Short answer: They don't.

Long answer: The definition of what makes a "nice guy" varies a bit from person to person, as well as between the sexes. This is important to note, because some of the things that the guy might think of as "being nice" might come across as a lack of confidence. Others might come across as being "clingy" or just generally uninteresting. For example, I have known a few guys who defined "nice guy" as some variation of the following:

1) Always letting the girl chose what to do or where to go.
2) Always initiate contact, hangouts, and other social meetings.
3) Always treats women with "respect", in the same way that they treat their grandmother.

None of these are going to get women interested. Women are human beings, just like guys. Here are some common problems with the above ideas:

1) Like anyone else, girls do have favorite things to do, and places to go, but if you never bring her to your favorites, how will she ever get to know you?

2) This can come across as being clingy and overbearing. It's great to be excited to talk to or see her, but don't let your whole world revolve around her. It places an awful lot of pressure onto girls that they will never live up to. (They are human beings)

3) If you treat her like a sister or grandmother, then be prepared to be thought of like a brother or grandson.

Most of our ideas of "nice guy" end up like this. Honestly, these things aren't what makes a "nice guy", but they are common things that "nice guys" associate with being one. To generalize further, women tend to like, and settle down with, nice men. At the same time, though, they are understandably not attracted to the "nice guy".

EDIT: It looks like Nate posted a similar response while I was playing Starcraft.

[Radical Dreamer]

Short answer: They don't.

Long answer: The definition of what makes a "nice guy" varies a bit from person to person, as well as between the sexes. This is important to note, because some of the things that the guy might think of as "being nice" might come across as a lack of confidence. Others might come across as being "clingy" or just generally uninteresting. For example, I have known a few guys who defined "nice guy" as some variation of the following:

1) Always letting the girl chose what to do or where to go.
2) Always initiate contact, hangouts, and other social meetings.
3) Always treats women with "respect", in the same way that they treat their grandmother.

None of these are going to get women interested. Women are human beings, just like guys. Here are some common problems with the above ideas:

1) Like anyone else, girls do have favorite things to do, and places to go, but if you never bring her to your favorites, how will she ever get to know you?

2) This can come across as being clingy and overbearing. It's great to be excited to talk to or see her, but don't let your whole world revolve around her. It places an awful lot of pressure onto girls that they will never live up to. (They are human beings)

3) If you treat her like a sister or grandmother, then be prepared to be thought of like a brother or grandson.

Most of our ideas of "nice guy" end up like this. Honestly, these things aren't what makes a "nice guy", but they are common things that "nice guys" associate with being one. To generalize further, women tend to like, and settle down with, nice men. At the same time, though, they are understandably not attracted to the "nice guy".

EDIT: It looks like Nate posted a similar response while I was playing Starcraft.

All of the above is so true. XD

[Yuki-Anne]

Wow. I thought this thread was dead.

I think a lot of nice guys "finish last" because they just don't have the courage to assert themselves. There's a fine line between being nice, and communicating weakness. There's also a fine line between welcome pursuit, and loyal puppy dog. Women don't want puppy dogs. That's what pet stores are for. But at the same time I've known guys who were really nice and really sweet, who just couldn't work up the courage to tell the girl how they felt, and just wanted to wait around until she said something.

As a girl, I find that really frustrating. Do you know why? Because aggressive girls also finish last. I would know. I tend to take the initiative. Do you see any rings on my fingers? Well, of course you don't, because you can't see my fingers, but if you could, you would see that they are ringless. The fact is, girls like to be pursued, and guys like to pursue, and in my experience, anytime the roles get flipped, things turn out badly.

So, basically, all's I'm saying is... be nice, but be a man. Because we've already got plenty of girlfriends.

Also, what CG and Nate said.

[steenajack]

Short answer: They don't.

Long answer: The definition of what makes a "nice guy" varies a bit from person to person, as well as between the sexes. This is important to note, because some of the things that the guy might think of as "being nice" might come across as a lack of confidence. Others might come across as being "clingy" or just generally uninteresting. For example, I have known a few guys who defined "nice guy" as some variation of the following:

1) Always letting the girl chose what to do or where to go.
2) Always initiate contact, hangouts, and other social meetings.
3) Always treats women with "respect", in the same way that they treat their grandmother.

None of these are going to get women interested. Women are human beings, just like guys. Here are some common problems with the above ideas:

1) Like anyone else, girls do have favorite things to do, and places to go, but if you never bring her to your favorites, how will she ever get to know you?

2) This can come across as being clingy and overbearing. It's great to be excited to talk to or see her, but don't let your whole world revolve around her. It places an awful lot of pressure onto girls that they will never live up to. (They are human beings)

3) If you treat her like a sister or grandmother, then be prepared to be thought of like a brother or grandson.

Most of our ideas of "nice guy" end up like this. Honestly, these things aren't what makes a "nice guy", but they are common things that "nice guys" associate with being one. To generalize further, women tend to like, and settle down with, nice men. At the same time, though, they are understandably not attracted to the "nice guy".

EDIT: It looks like Nate posted a similar response while I was playing Starcraft.

Steena approves of this post!

[Nate]

The fact is, girls like to be pursued, and guys like to pursue, and in my experience, anytime the roles get flipped, things turn out badly.

Well guess that just confirms my future.

FOREVER ALONE.

[LadyRushia]

As a girl, I find that really frustrating. Do you know why? Because aggressive girls also finish last.

Darn it, so do the quiet non-aggressive girls who don't understand flirting. I guess we all lose in the end. D8

Also, my roommate somewhat aggressively pursued her boyfriend and they've been together for 3 1/2 years now, so I guess sometimes it works out.

[Yuki-Anne]

Well guess that just confirms my future.

FOREVER ALONE.

Mine too, Nate. Mine too.

[Nate]

I wonder if the guy who made this image is me.