Christians Aginst Anime Bootlegging

[Vyse]

"Statements that I thanked you for?"

Doesent that edit feature work nicely? (nice of you to change your post while people are responding to it) Anyway I have to go to work...I really have no desire to banter back and forth with you consider you refuse to take any advise. So go get a tattoo or somthing. FANSUBS ARE THE DEVIL. I got milk to put up.

Didn't you tell me just a minute ago I should edit my posts instead of double posting?

If you have no desire to then why did you post here knowing my stance against pircary?

As a matter a fact, why am I being persucted for taking a stand against pircary on a Christian site?

[bigsleepj]

Considering that my "Piracy Funds Terrorism" post began this, I am truly sorry. I did not think that posting something, which I thought to be true, would bring up this much controversy. I am sorry, but can't we just stop this bickering? Or at least call me an idiot and get done with it.

[shooraijin]

Let's not do that either, okay? I think we've pretty much solidified on the central core of this.

[Vyse]

Considering that my "Piracy Funds Terrorism" post began this, I am truly sorry. I did not think that posting something, which I thought to be true, would bring up this much controversy. I am sorry, but can't we just stop this bickering? Or at least call me an idiot and get done with it.

Don't blame yourself for this, please, you were only trying to take a stand for what was right, even if you were mistaken about that one thing, bootlegs are still very very wrong because its stealing, and God did say "Thou shall not steal" it takes courage to take a stand for what is right, I'm proud of anyone who does take a stand against bootlegging.

[bigsleepj]

...and God did say "Thou shall not steal" it takes courage to take a stand for what is right, I'm proud of anyone who does take a stand against bootlegging.

I'll drink to that (figuratively speaking).

But we must convince others not to buy it. If you say it to them and they reply "So what?" what should you say, especially if the other isn't a Christian?

[Gypsy]

Could you show me where it says that? I'm very interested to see that.

Me too, but while I'm not just pulling all of this out of a hat, I'm also not quoting from legal documents. As I've said:

A. I'm not an authority on the subject. I have nothing from an official legal source to post or link to.

B. This is my own personal take. I would feel wrong buying a bootleg (trust me, I'm tempted every time I hit ebay) but I do not feel wrong buying a fansub dvd that has been translated into my language and formatted to work in my dvd player.

If both the Japanese and non-Japanese anime companies benefit from the fansubbing market, then I see no breach of morality. Everyone wins. The underlying question is, does everyone winning make it right, even when it treads through some gray areas within the law? That's something that everyone will decide for themselves. Again, as far as I understand, reading/watching fan translated material is not illegal.

Vyse, I appreciate your willingness to get to the bottom of this, but I think it's going in a direction of a question of principals. You're sharing information; this is good. Asking and answering questions is also good. However, a possible breakdown of where this topic is going could be as follows: Buying a possibly illegal fansub = maybe breaking the law = sinning = committing an act against God. Sounds more like theology.web material to me.

I've given way more than my two cents worth, but I'm not afraid to stand corrected. I'm very interested in seeing other people's thoughts on the matter, but, lightly put, I'm not interested in seeing an outright debate.

[Vyse]

I'll drink to that (figuratively speaking).

But we must convince others not to buy it. If you say it to them and they reply "So what?" what should you say, especially if the other isn't a Christian?

That is a real hard question... I'd try to make sure they understand what they are doing exactly, but remeber, if it doesn't catch up with them in this life, they'll have to answer to God for it. But yes you do have a very vaild point, a lot of people just don't care, it is sad the world is the way it is these days. BUT in a lot of cases, bootlegs are brought out of ignorance, if that is the case, its very possible to convince that person.

Originally posted by Gypsy:

I given way more than my two cents worth, but I'm not afraid to stand corrected. I'm very interested in seeing other people's thoughts on the matter, but, lightly put, I'm not interested in seeing an outright debate.

Aye, and if its okay Gypsy, but is it okay if we stay away from the issue of fansubs here? When I was refering too bootlegs, I was refering to the stuff you see out of HK, Twian, etc, while I'm not saying fansubbs are right, I'm just saying its an issue I didn't want this thread to get into because I knew it'd be an issue of even greater contraversy.

[Vyse]

Double post, sorry.

[neoassassin2078]

Yeah!.... Uhhhh..... Ummm.... bottlegging is bad, because with all the energy people put into gettign bootlegs they can organize a rebel strike against key international and obtain the rights to kanon by force. If they won't let us publish it, then'll we obtain rights by force! So next time you want to get a bootleg DVD, instead do the world some good and FORCE the legitamate companies to release the anime you wnat.

please note that my BCL (blood caffeine level) is very low right now so I cannot be held responsible for the stupidity of my comment.

[Arbre]

I'll drink to that (figuratively speaking).

But we must convince others not to buy it. If you say it to them and they reply "So what?" what should you say, especially if the other isn't a Christian?

Convincing others that something is wrong is very difficult if you don't necessarily have the same exact idea of what makes things right or wrong. Don't expect everyone to agree with you on what is or isn't right. This thread's a good example of that. =)
I have a friend who absolutely hates copyright laws of any kind- he thinks it stifles creativity and just makes things more difficult. He has his own logic and way of thinking. But, I also know that he wouldn't willingly break the law if he knows that it really affects people financially. His way of thinking is different than mine, and he understands my views on it. His way of looking at things is that sometimes, certain types of laws are more hindrance than help. I don't agree with him on everything, but I don't argue with him about it, either.


What's the best way to learn about recognizing bootleg (or, if you're more strict in what you believe is ok, unofficial) merchandise? Are there some sites that are known to sell only the real anime and soundtracks and such?

[bigsleepj]

please note that my BCL (blood caffeine level) is very low right now so I cannot be held responsible for the stupidity of my comment.

Actually I like it when someone throws in a stupid comment every now in again...considering that you're kind of doing it as a joke while making a point. If you said something like "Smell the coffee, sniff sniff" then it would have been really stupid.

[Vyse]

Are there some sites that are known to sell only the real anime and soundtracks and such?

Yes there are!

http://www.bestbuy.com
http://www.rightstuf.com
http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com (note their shipping can be unreliable)
http://www.animenation.com
http://www.gamemusic.com

Those I can think of off the top of my head.

[bigsleepj]

What's the best way to learn about recognizing bootleg (or, if you're more strict in what you believe is ok, unofficial) merchandise? Are there some sites that are known to sell only the real anime and soundtracks and such?

The hands on way of telling

Well, the way I usually spot a bootleg is by looking at the way the box is designed. Usually, because the printing is sometimes done on home printers the lettering, the cover and such would look kind of fuzzy. If the original cover had been removed and scanned, then it would look like this. Pixilation might occur.

Then there's design; the cover would look like it's been pasted together from different pictures nicked off the Internet. For instance I once saw a bootleg DVD for Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back (they copied it off a video, by the way) with the poster from "Return of the Jedi", complete with Jabba the Hut. Also there will be terrible spelling mistakes on it. I once saw a DVD for "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" written like this; Legue fo Extrodnary Gintlemen". Tsk, tsk.

If you bought the DVD, then a cheap, ugly menu is also a give-away, usually scanned from a poster. If the menu doesn't work...then you've bought a bona-fide pirate DVD.

The Castle of Cagliostro bootleg had none of these so this tactic might not always work. But sooner or later you'll learn to spot the fake from the real thing.

[Gypsy]

Aye, and if its okay Gypsy, but is it okay if we stay away from the issue of fansubs here? When I was refering too bootlegs, I was refering to the stuff you see out of HK, Twian, etc, while I'm not saying fansubbs are right, I'm just saying its an issue I didn't want this thread to get into because I knew it'd be an issue of even greater contraversy.

Oh, by all means. Sorry, I lost track of the original topic ... don't tell the boss, though, she'll beat me!!

If you're careful, and know what to look for, you can get some good deals for legit stuff on ebay. I'd be happy to list out a buyer's guide of sorts, if anyone is interested, and I'm sure other ebayers will have tips as well.

[Mave]

Looks like we're back in track with the original purpose of this thread.

I hope what I post doesn't put us off-track again. I sincerely would like to learn more about this topic without the debates.

1) Is it safe to assume that comic shops will never sell bootlegs? There's a comic shop on campus and they look like a legal establishment. Or must I always be on-guard no matter what?

2) What about places like Walmart?

3) I'm a bigger manga fan than anime. Are there manga bootlegs in U.S? ^^;;;

4) In U.S, I always thought copyright laws were the strictest. How did bootlegs even happen here? I just don't get it.

The last one might spark a debate but I really want to know. Pls don't fight. Just tell us the facts and let us decide for ourselves.

[Vyse]

1) Is it safe to assume that comic shops will never sell bootlegs? There's a comic shop on campus and they look like a legal establishment. Or must I always be on-guard no matter what?

Well the funny thing is, I was at a comic bookstore last year and they had obvious DBZ/GT bootlegs(the covers look like they were made on a low res Inkjet)

2) What about places like Walmart?

Limited selection with sometimes GREAT prices, and totally legit ^_^

3) I'm a bigger manga fan than anime. Are there manga bootlegs in U.S? ^^;;;

Hmm.. I think a case can be made for fan-scans, but I really don't want to open that door here...

4) In U.S, I always thought copyright laws were the strictest. How did bootlegs even happen here? I just don't get it.

I honestly don't know how a lot of these get past customs, the same with other obviously illegal things, but my guess is that a lot of people don't know what to look for in bootleg anime so they think its just legit, I remeber reading something on a .gov sight about it being hard to spot bootleg material of any kind because they are getting good at making it appear legit, I'll try to post the page if I can find it again.

The last one might spark a debate but I really want to know. Pls don't fight. Just tell us the facts and let us decide for ourselves

No worries, I'll do my best not to this time ^_^

[Gypsy]

1) Is it safe to assume that comic shops will never sell bootlegs? There's a comic shop on campus and they look like a legal establishment. Or must I always be on-guard no matter what?

I think it's safe to assume they're legit.

2) What about places like Walmart?

Always - no worries there!

3) I'm a bigger manga fan than anime. Are there manga bootlegs in U.S? ^^]
You'll know one if you see one. The printed kind are cheap. Anything you find in chain bookstores is the real deal.

4) In U.S, I always thought copyright laws were the strictest. How did bootlegs even happen here? I just don't get it.

Same way drugs and the black market came about. $$$$$$$

[bigsleepj]

[quote="Mave"]1) Is it safe to assume that comic shops will never sell bootlegs? There's a comic shop on campus and they look like a legal establishment. Or must I always be on-guard no matter what?

2) What about places like Walmart?

3) I'm a bigger manga fan than anime. Are there manga bootlegs in U.S? ^^]

1) Comics shops here sell bootlegs. Doh! You'll just have to be carefull. But I don't think comic shops in the US will sell bootleg DVDs. As for Bootleg manga, they'll wouldn't risk it.

2.) They will never sell bootlegs.

3.) I've never heard of manga bootlegs, but they did bootleg "The Lord of the Rings" in the 1960s in America. I think Manga is too hard to bootleg successfully without looking fake.

4.) Bootlegs are not produced legally. The term "bootleg" comes from the 1920's when alchohol was prohibited and people tried to smuggle whiskey into the country by hiding it in their boots. These DVDs are either produced by someone in the US in their back yard (a bent home industry using a DVD-writer and colour printer) or they produced by a larger syndicate or corporation in Asia and smuggled into the US by criminals or private individuals. Some people figure "it's only a crime when you're caught" so they risk it and disregard the copyright laws. Besides, it looks like easy money...

[bigsleepj]

I honestly don't know how a lot of these get past customs, the same with other obviously illegal things, but my guess is that a lot of people don't know what to look for in bootleg anime so they think its just legit, I remeber reading something on a .gov sight about it being hard to spot bootleg material of any kind because they are getting good at making it appear legit, I'll try to post the page if I can find it again.

Ever heard of "grey trading"? They pack a crate full of, say, denim jeans, and slip the DVDs in between the fabrics. The customs quickly check it and pass it through without spotting the DVDs. Off course this is the theory of it; in real life it's harder to pull off successfully, but there are always slip-ups.

[Gypsy]

Woo, how's that for some answers, Mave?

I do have a question, though. On your #1 question, did you mean anime bootlegs or manga bootlegs. Because I assumed you were speaking of anime bootlegs, but after re-reading everything, I got confused.

[Vyse]

[quote="Gypsy"]Woo, how's that for some answers, Mave? ]

I thought she was refering to DVDs... it was kinda wierd seeing them sell legit DVDs along side bootlegs of the same seiries. I was like "uhh... yeah these look legit alright <_<" I mean come on, they looked like they were printed off of a home printer!

[Gypsy]

Was this a small business, or a comic store chain?

[Vyse]

Was this a small business, or a comic store chain?

I think it was a small bussiness, I can't even remember the name but I think it was "Bob's Comics" or something like that, defiently not a well known company.

[Mave]

[quote="Gypsy"]Woo, how's that for some answers, Mave? ]

I'm delighted. Straight to the point and very informative all in 3-4 successive posts. ^_^ Thanks!


Gypsy, my first question was originally for anime bootlegs (DVD or CD). It might be useful to address manga bootlegs for that question as well but I doubt it.


I've concluded from responses that it's just safer to be on-guard in comic stores anyway. The comic store at my place is kinda small so you'll never know.


EDIT: Two more questions...
1) Shall I assume that Barnes and Noble will never sell manga bootlegs? That would be wonderful because there's where I've been blowing off my $$$$ on manga.
2) What would be an example of a well-known comic store? The one here is called 20th Century Comics.


Grey trading. Ironically, many ppl do the same thing while travelling.

[Vyse]

1) Shall I assume that Barnes and Noble will never sell manga bootlegs? That would be wonderful because there's where I've been blowing off my $$$$ on manga.

Yeah, I'm sure without a doubt that B&N is legit.

[bigsleepj]

I think it was a small bussiness, I can't even remember the name but I think it was "Bob's Comics" or something like that, defiently not a well known company.

I represent Bob's Comics as their legal attorney and we will not stand for you slandering our client's name with lies and allegation for which you have no proof....JUST KIDDING!!

Seriously, I think that with people buying bootlegs it is, for the most part, just ignorance. Bob's Comics doesn't seem to know the difference because I can't believe Bob (Silent Bob, per chance?) would risk his business and jail time for a few measily bucks. But then again I don't know Bob.

[Gypsy]

What would be an example of a well-known comic store? The one here is called 20th Century Comics.

Uh ... *shrugs and looks around for someone else to answer*

I just always go to Borders and Suncoast for my manga fixes. I'd go to B&N, but we don't have one around here.

[ShiroiHikari]

Our comic store here sells bootlegged anime soundtracks. Like I said before, I'm gonna talk to my friend that works there about it and see if it can't be stopped. I never noticed any bad print quality or anything (Ever Anime does a good job), but my DDR 5th Mix CD says 4th Mix instead of 5th Mix on the side label. o_O

[Vyse]

I represent Bob's Comics as their legal attorney and we will not stand for you slandering our client's name with lies and allegation for which you have no proof....JUST KIDDING!!

Long time no see Bob! Did you ever get a better printer? XD

Seriously, I think that with people buying bootlegs it is, for the most part, just ignorance. Bob's Comics doesn't seem to know the difference because I can't believe Bob (Silent Bob, per chance?) would risk his business and jail time for a few measily bucks. But then again I don't know Bob.

I really strongly belive that ignorance is a big part of it, I'm not sure how much of it is ignorance though... considering they were being sold along side legit DVDs...

[bigsleepj]

Long time no see Bob! Did you ever get a better printer? XD

Sarcastic
Well, my client whispered into my ear that he's got a Canon Bubblejet 8000XPZ which prints very well, thank you. He's just received a copy of "Nausicaa of the Valley of the Winds" by Miyazaki, starring Uma Thurman and Patrick Stewart, which he got at a special screaning and he wants you to take a look.

I really strongly belive that ignorance is a big part of it, I'm not sure how much of it is ignorance though... considering they were being sold along side legit DVDs...

Since they were being sold alongside with the real ones might indicate ignorance. Or just indifference. Either way have you thought of talking to him about it?