Lost

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

My thoughts on + recap of episode 6.15 - Across the Sea: Part Two

[spoiler]Below the well, the MIB stokes a live brazier. Mother talks to him and he tells her that he's been searching for 'her' light cave all his life but hasn't found it. He worked with others to locate the light in other areas on the Island. We discover the MIB created the Frozen Donkey Wheel (but at this stage it's not frozen) and others are creating the mechanism to link it too. They have constructed a wall, beyond which is the beautiful light and water. The Wheel channels the light and water, so he when he turns it, he can leave the Island (I'm not sure how this works - it seems more mysticism than science but I'm okay with that). Mother says her goodbyes and smashes the MIB's head against the wall. She clearly doesn't want anyone to possess the light. Not even 'her' favourite son.

Mother wakes Jacob and leads him to the cavern of light. She wants him to protect it, now that his brother has gone. She explains further that the light is 'life, death, rebirth - the source, the heart of the Island.' She doesn't want Jacob to ever enter the cave because doing so would be worse than death. Mother produces a familiar looking bottle of spirits (from Ab Aeterno). She pours him a drink, chants and then hands it to him, explaining that this signifies him taking responsibility for protecting the light and the Island from others. Also, that he finds a suitable replacement when the time comes. Jacob is pained with the decision. He doesn't want anything to do with it. He also knows he isn't her favourite. But he drinks the spirits. She tells him that now, 'you and I are one and the same.' What does she mean? Protectors of the Island?

The MIB regains consciousness and finds the well and his village destroyed. His people have been murdered. Wow. One woman did all this? Maybe Mother is Smokey? The MIB destroys her tapestry loom and stabs her with his dagger. As she dies, he asks her why she didn't let him leave the Island. She replies that it was because she loves him. What? Is Mother the physical embodiment of the Island? Creepy. Jacob finds his Mother dead and his brother standing over her body. He beats up the MIB, again, then takes him to the cave with the light (I find it curious that only Jacob and Mother can locate it - maybe only the protector can find it easily?) Jacob hurls the MIB into the stream, where his body floats away, enters the cavern of light and is sucked down a waterfall. We hear a familiar tika-tika sound - Smokey! The smoke monster shoots out of the cave, swallowing the light as it comes. I presume that means the MIB became Smokey but how? My theory is that the cavern houses a huge amount of pure electromagnetic energy and that coming into contact with that energy, destroys the average person. The MIB and Jacob are essentially immortals now. So instead of destroying him entirely, the light strips the MIB to his darkened soul, which is in this case a formless pillar of smoke. I believe that in the final episodes, we may see Desmond enter that light beyond the waterfall, survive (he's resistant to large amounts of electromagnetic energy), and do something there to send the Island to the bottom of the sea.

Jacob finds his brother's body washed up on some rocks. He takes his body and Mother's and lays them to rest in a cave, with the black and white stones from the Senet game. Perhaps they're there to act as a reminder to him. We discover the bodies are Adam and Eve, the bodies found by Jack, Kate and Locke back in Season 1.[/spoiler]

[Cognitive Gear]

I just had a couple of thoughts:

[spoiler]Way back in season one (I think...) John Locke came face to face with the smoke monster. He would later say the following about it: "I looked into the eye of this Island, and what I saw... was beautiful." Later still, he described Smokey as a "bright light" to Mr. Eko, who had a different opinion: "that is not what I saw".

I think that this is pretty indicative of the nature of how Smokey came to be. I think that he did take a good amount of the Island's light. Now tie this in with how Widmore said that if MiB ever left, it would be the end of the world, and we have a pretty good idea on what the running theory within the show is.

I think it's important to note that the light was described as the source of all life, death, and rebirth, so it seems like a rather neutral force. Also, it's interesting to note that Locke and Mr Eko saw different things in it. Perhaps this energy is different things to different people? [/spoiler]

EDIT: It looks like Warrior 4 Jesus had some of the same thoughts I did! I didn't have chance to read his post until now, though. XD;

[Esoteric]

[spoiler]It's possible Mother was 'Smokey', but then why did she die when stabbed? MiB didn't when Sayid stabbed him (with the same knife). As island guardian, it's more likely she had control over the Light's power and could 'order' it around.

I also wasn't impressed by the declaration: "I've made it so you two can never hurt each other." And twice during the episode Jacob bashes MiB's face in. Uhhhmm? So, then they could theoretically torture and savage each other, flay the flesh off bones...just not die from it?

Don't mean to be a downer, but personally I was little disappointed to learn that all these once mysterious and ominous personas were really just a crazy/dysfunctional family, who acted on emotions and messed everything up. The tag line 'Everything happens for a reason', sorta took a big hit in my mind, unless that 'reason' is lies and epic angst.

I'm still hoping there will be something/someone bigger behind it all, orchestrating the struggle more...intelligently, but I'm not really sure what to think at this point. Guess the last two episodes will make or break it for me. [/spoiler]

[Radical Dreamer]

[spoiler]It's possible Mother was 'Smokey', but then why did she die when stabbed? MiB didn't when Sayid stabbed him (with the same knife). As island guardian, it's more likely she had control over the Light's power and could 'order' it around.

I also wasn't impressed by the declaration: "I've made it so you two can never hurt each other." And twice during the episode Jacob bashes MiB's face in. Uhhhmm? So, then they could theoretically torture and savage each other, flay the flesh off bones...just not die from it?

Don't mean to be a downer, but personally I was little disappointed to learn that all these once mysterious and ominous personas were really just a crazy/dysfunctional family, who acted on emotions and messed everything up. The tag line 'Everything happens for a reason', sorta took a big hit in my mind, unless that 'reason' is lies and epic angst.

I'm still hoping there will be something/someone bigger behind it all, orchestrating the struggle more...intelligently, but I'm not really sure what to think at this point. Guess the last two episodes will make or break it for me. [/spoiler]

[SPOILER]Mother as Smokey died because MIB stabbed her before she could talk. Remember, Dogen told Sayid to stab FLocke before he could speak]

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Yes, it could be argued that the circumstances for everything were rather petty and low-key, but let's not forget that the division between Cain and Abel brought about many great horrors and that sin entered the world via the temptation of a piece of forbidden fruit. Something simple can birth something more epic.

[Esoteric]

[spoiler]Mother as Smokey died because MIB stabbed her before she could talk. Remember, Dogen told Sayid to stab FLocke before he could speak; otherwise, it wouldn't work. [/spoiler]Yes, I thought of that, but if that's the case...[spoiler]I think it's a pretty odd technicality. Smokey can be killed if it doesn't talk? How does that equate? Actually, from events I would instead draw the conclusion that Smokey is vulnerable if you surprise it and it doesn't see you coming. That's more logical, but I'm still basically having trouble with the idea that a simple knife can kill Smokey under any circumstances. The 'body' isn't real after all, it's a morphing, metaphysical entity. I would expect its Achilles heal to be electromagnetism or energy waves, not a Roman gladius.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Also, I assume that by "hurt," Mother meant "kill," like the people the boys saw were killing the boar. This would be why MIB needed a loophole to kill Jacob, but they could still fistfight. [/spoiler]
Yes, I realized that's what she actually meant. I'm just sayin' the script could have been written more...accurately. I admit I'm a stickler for that sort of thing.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

[spoiler]The Tawaret statue is a mother goddess figure with two ankhs (symbolising eternal life). Traditionally Tawaret had no ankhs, let alone two of them. Could the statue have been created by people who came to the Island viewing Jacob as a god etc? They possibly heard about Mother and constructed the statue. It's not a stretch then, to say that the two ankhs of eternal life represent the warring twins - Jacob and the MIB.

Think back to Ab Aeterno. Jacob sits down with Richard and explains that the Island is like a cork that plugs the bottle, preventing the wine (representing darkness etc.) from escaping into the world. Judging by what we learnt in Across the Sea, it sounds to me like he's lying to get some help. We now know a different side of the story (I don't know if it's the correct one though). Smokey is like the cork plugging the bottle. If Smokey (represented by the wine) leaves the Island, the Source (light, heart of the Island - whatever) escapes and the everything ceases to exist. So when Jacob gives the MIB the same bottle of wine to 'pass the time', he's rubbing the MIB's face in his own imprisonment on the Island. That's why the MIB smashes the bottle. Not just in anger but to symbolise his desire to go 'across the sea', to leave the Island.

Also, the parallels between Mother and Rousseau and Claire are uncanny. Raised by Another. In Mother's case it led to great problems, with Rousseau, Ben became Alex's 'father', with Claire, Aaron was raised by Kate. All were raised by people who were crazy or disturbed to some extent and all suffered for that in various ways. The MIB was considered 'special' because he was going to be the candidate to protect the heart of the Island. Walt and Aaron were considered special, maybe they were possible candidates too?

We haven't been told straight-out what Walt and Aaron's significance were but it's been hinted at in the previous episode. There is so much to analyse. The MIB was considered 'special' because he was more in-tune with the electromagnetic properties of the Island. He and his brother were raised by Mother to keep them pure from sinful society, so they wouldn't become corrupt and destroy. In her own crazy way, Mother was protecting them. It can then be reasoned that the Others were doing the same with children throughout the earlier seasons (at Jacob's directive - through Richard). Stealing children from their parents, so they wouldn't be corrupted by sinful society. It's pretty twisted. Aaron and Walt were probably special because of this. Walt especially seemed to be in-tune with the Island more than others and was therefore seen as hot property - maybe to become a possible candidate? Notice that Zac and Emma (the children with Cindy) were taken but never harmed? They became part of the Others. Yes, it can be argued that killing and kidnapping people is no less evil than letting 'innocents' grow up in a sinful society, but I think it all stems from Mother's warped thinking.

There are so many parallels/mirrorings between this episode and the many we've seen. There's so much to explore. I understand if some people didn't enjoy the episode but I think it's vital to understanding much of what we've previously seen. I think we'll see a return to some of the science aspects of the series before it ends. But I don't expect the answer will be either Free Will of Destiny or Faith or Science but instead, a balance of the two.[/spoiler]

[Radical Dreamer]

Here's today's Doc Jensen article, prepping for tonight's episode! And I want to personally recommend the 5 Totally Lost videos at the end of this one--they are hilarious. XDD Enjoy!

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

That was easily the best Totally Lost segment ever. Epic!

[rocklobster]

[spoiler]When Jacob chose Jack, it kind of reminded me of The Last Supper when Jesus passed the wine around.[/spoiler]

[Tommy]

[spoiler] the jacob ressurection theory doesnt seem likely now due to him saying "when this ashes are done burning, you will never see me again." [/spoiler]

[Radical Dreamer]

[SPOILER]So last night's episode was incredible; probably one of the best Lost episodes we've seen. But that's not what this post is about. XDD

So I'm watching the Pilot episode, and I want to know what all of you think about the following theory:

Is Vincent Smokey?

Think about it. Vincent, being a dog, would have been in a kennel in the pet/luggage area of the plane. The luggage area is usually in the tail section, which, as we know, broke off and landed--in the water--on the other side of the Island. So technically, Vincent should be at the bottom of the sea. But since we know Smokey can inhabit dead things, and since Vincent's scenes, at least in the Pilot, are all approached in a fairly ominous way? I wouldn't put it past this show to have Smokey take the form of both Christian and Vincent early on, if only to get a better way to spy on the characters. What do you all think?[/SPOILER]

[Hohenheim]

[SPOILER]So last night's episode was incredible]

[Spoiler] I suppose that's possible. To be honest, I'm wondering if Smokey was Walt at certain times. I honestly can't remember who it was, but I recall that some of the survivors had visions of Walt covered in sea water when he was supposed to be out on the boat with his dad. If Smokey can only appear human when he is assuming the form of someone who has died, then what about the vision of Walt? Will the show ever come back to that one?[/Spoiler]

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

I know it won't interest all Lost fans but here's the whole New York Times Live special with the main writers, Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse (from several days ago). It's basically a very long (but interesting) interview with them about LOST, the screen-writing process and answering (or rather, avoiding) questions submitted by fans. The interview is intelligent and funny and just over 100mins in length.

Just be warned. The last 5mins of video part 10 and all of part 11 could be considered spoilers by some fans (they show non-spoiler footage from the Finale).

Enjoy.


http://nikkistafford.blogspot.com/2010/05/lost-times-talk-live.html

[Whitefang]

[spoiler]
If it had ended, about, 20 minutes before the actual ending, I would have been satisfied. Wow, that was almost the most amazing thing ever.[/spoiler]

[Cognitive Gear]

Just finished the finale, some initial thoughts: (BIG spoilers)

[spoiler]That was amazing. I was a little concerned that they might have been cheapening character deaths, but the last few minutes really made LA X make a whole lot of sense, and prevented the whole show from having no purpose.

It seemed like some kind of on Island shared reality that the ghosts created to ensure that they could connect one more time. The phrase, "moving on" felt like it was chosen to make sure they got to nod towards this.

It was a fantastic finale, because it really made certain to focus on what the show was really all about: the characters.

I thought that last shot was exactly what it should be. I called it out at the beginning of the finale when I had a sudden realization as to why it was important to mention the position of the bamboo fields. Loved it.

Great finale, or greatest finale?[/spoiler]

[Whitefang]

[spoiler]But it doesn't make sense, cognitive, unless they did not die on impact (had some reason to reconnect). If they died on impact, what does it matter that they died together? Because they were alone? No one is ever alone, isn't that what the show taught us? Anyway, I don't see a reason for the characters to have any connection with each other. Besides, if the island was fake, what about Ben and Juliet? Why are they part of this creation? If the island is real, where are Jacob and his brother? Hopefully I'm not the only person left with an unsatisfied feeling.

I will agree, however, that the story did remain true to the characters, and that was satisfying to watch unfold. But the story...just...it didn't feel right to me. I'll give it the night to see if anything settles into place.

Edit: You know, I'm going to mention one other thing that doesn't feel right. If the alternate universe is some sort of purgatory (a very nice purgatory at that), then shouldn't there be people disappearing all the time? Shouldn't there have been some indication that things aren't yet set right? It should have been more obvious than having to remember, simply, that one is dead.[/spoiler]

[Cognitive Gear]

[spoiler]But it doesn't make sense, cognitive, unless they did not die on impact (had some reason to reconnect). If they died on impact, what does it matter that they died together? Because they were alone? No one is ever alone, isn't that what the show taught us? Anyway, I don't see a reason for the characters to have any connection with each other. Besides, if the island was fake, what about Ben and Juliet? Why are they part of this creation? If the island is real, where are Jacob and his brother? Hopefully I'm not the only person left with an unsatisfied feeling.

I will agree, however, that the story did remain true to the characters, and that was satisfying to watch unfold. But the story...just...it didn't feel right to me. I'll give it the night to see if anything settles into place.

Edit: You know, I'm going to mention one other thing that doesn't feel right. If the alternate universe is some sort of purgatory (a very nice purgatory at that), then shouldn't there be people disappearing all the time? Shouldn't there have been some indication that things aren't yet set right? It should have been more obvious than having to remember, simply, that one is dead.[/spoiler]

[spoiler] I don't know where you got that they "died on impact". The shot of the wreckage during the credits was an homage to the beginning of the show.

Everything that happened on the Island is reality.

Everything that happened in X timeline was "purgatory" (I don't really like using that word due to the extra connotations it carries, but it'll work), used as an allegorical remembrance of the series as a whole.

There were a few things wrong with the X timeline, such as Jack having a son, and Nadia's children. However, the thing to remember is that this was a purgatory created by the LOSTies themselves. Jacob, his brother, Walt and Michael aren't there because they either: A) already moved on or B) weren't part of this shared purgatory, since in the end they weren't really part of this group.

EDIT: Basically they were on the Island like the ghosts that couldn't move on were. However, the Losties couldn't move on without each other, so as a result of the nuke being set off in season 5 (and Juliet's resulting death) this special purgatory was created for them once they had died. (Or maybe not, it's just a wild theory, since her death was so emotional) As such, only those in this group needed each other to move on, and only they ended up in it.

Since Jack only ended up there after he died in the bamboo fields, he had the cut and the "appendicitis scar" in the alt timeline. [/spoiler]

[Whitefang]

Ok, I guess I can buy that.

[spoiler]I'll add, for fun, C) the actors couldn't be bothered to show up. It still doesn't feel right to me, but at least the story is congruent enough.[/spoiler]

[Hohenheim]

Greatest finale ever.

[Spoiler] So the sideways world was a 'purgatory' of sorts, a gathering place for all those on the island who had died. Jack was the one who united them all, he was the last one to regain his memories in this place, and the one who let all of the survivors 'move on'. It was truly a hopeful ending, one that I enjoyed, though I did have to do perhaps a little research to confirm my suspicions about everything.[/Spoiler]

So Lost is over. Well, I do say a fond farewell to a great series. It will be missed.

[Radical Dreamer]

I am going to come back later and give a detailed post about all of my thoughts when I have them together. XD Also after I've watched the finale a few more times. XD

All I can say right now? Wow. Greatest finale ever. Thus concludes six years of the best television show I think we'll ever see.

[Cognitive Gear]

I just wanted to post one last little cool thing about the finale before the in-depth series discussion gets going:

[spoiler]
Since season 1, Hurley has been an audience proxy. In the finale, he is given the responsibility to watch over the Island. This is, in many ways, the writers fully handing the show over to the audience.

It's our show now.[/spoiler]

[Mr. SmartyPants]

During the recap the creators and cast members kept saying how Lost definitely focused mostly on character development and stuff.

Well yeah that's true, cause the overall plot is just ridiculous. Might as well have made the second half of the show like... an entirely new show. XD Talk about major Deus Ex Machina.

I enjoyed the finale. And I'd certainly enjoy watching Lost had I chosen to catch up about 2-3 seasons that I missed, but I can enjoy something that isn't finely-crafted.

So overall, indifference towards JJ Abrams and his 120 hour long character expose.

[Radical Dreamer]

I just wanted to post one last little cool thing about the finale before the in-depth series discussion gets going:

[spoiler]
Since season 1, Hurley has been an audience proxy. In the finale, he is given the responsibility to watch over the Island. This is, in many ways, the writers fully handing the show over to the audience.

It's our show now.[/spoiler]

[SPOILER]Oh my gosh, that's such a fantastic point to make. And I think it's really what the writers were going for in making a more ambiguous ending, so that the fans could interpret it as they wanted to.[/SPOILER]

Also, I think I just found the best website ever. Mild language warning. XD

http://www.odoe.net/jackfaces/index.html

EDIT:

Also, here's the long-awaited (for me, at least XD) Doc Jensen recap: part one!

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20387946,00.html

[Esoteric]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to weigh in with the 'it was pretty good, but a few aspects left my brain itching' crowd.
[spoiler] I was pleased by the pull the plug solution to de-fanging Smokie, however, since the 'body' he was using wasn't a real body (not Locke's flesh and blood body) just killing the power itself probably should have killed Smokie, but that's a small nitpick.

Yeah, the flash sideways. Honestly, I preferred it as an alternate universe instead of a timeless pocket of eternity designed for their reunion. My gut says they really just invented the whole flash sideways situation so that they could indulge both a happy and sad ending at the same time. It worked, I guess. Shot some of the logic to heck, but it worked. The ending left me neither happy or sad.[/spoiler]

[Radical Dreamer]

Sigh. I just watched the season finale again. XD

[SPOILER]It's perfect. I really think they couldn't have ended it any better than they chose to. It also impacted me more emotionally the second time I watched it, as opposed to the first. Every "Island Enlightenment" scene had me choked up the first time (save for Sayid's, really), but I actually cried this time during Locke's--I'm not sure why his is so emotional. XD I think it's all the season one nostalgia that comes rushing back. And also that scene where he's standing in the rain. XD Holy frick.

Anyways. Wow. I also cried during the very last scene with Jack and Vincent. XD I really think the "Sideways world as a purgatory-type place" was really a good way to go. Not only does it give us a chance to see how the characters viewed themselves (and now I finally understand all of the symbolism with the mirrors in this season), but it gives us the chance to see all of them reunited. I mean, who wasn't bawling when Charlie and Claire were Island Enlightened? My gosh, such a good scene. XD

As far as the unanswered questions go, I have two ways of looking at it. The first way is that it doesn't matter. Lost is a show about questions, not answers, and in that way, it becomes a metaphor for life itself. We don't have all the answers to our questions, and we may never get some of them in this life.

The second way of looking at it is that there may be answers to questions hidden deeper within the show. The writers didn't explicitly come out and tell us anything, other than a few rare occasions like the whispers and Adam and Eve. One thing I've noticed in the last 24 hours is people complaining about not getting answers to questions like "what is the Island," "why were the candidates called to the Island," and "Who was the man in Jacob's Cabin," to which I say, "my goodness, which show have you been watching?" XD All of those questions have been answered, but often, the answers were inferred, either by the mythology of the show or by putting the puzzle pieces that the writers provided for us together. I have a feeling that, when I re-watch this show in its entirety all the way through, a LOT of things are going to make more sense, now that I have the ending of the show in mind.

And I really think that's the best part about this show, and that's going to be its legacy. It's made people think. It's brought up important issues that need to be considered in a world where TV is seen as a place to "tune in and tune out." Relativism aside, it's a show that's urging people to give thought to the possibility of an afterlife, to the ramifications of the things we do, and it's at least challenging people to make that search for faith instead of remaining apathetic to it. I really think the writers and everyone else involved have accomplished a lot with this show, and I think that the fact that opinions on the ending are so drastically split down the middle is a testament to the fact that it's going to continue to be a discussion point for years to come. XD

Also, the final shot of Jack's eye closing? Brilliant. I wouldn't have ended it any other way. XD [/SPOILER]

Also, if any of you missed the Jimmy Kimmel "Aloha to Lost" special, I highly recommend watching it! You can find it here, complete with a special farewell from Stephen Colbert. It's so awesome. XDD

[Radical Dreamer]

Doubletoasting!

Here's [url=http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20388269,00.html[/url]Part Two[/url] of Doc Jensen's recap article! And here's something equally awesome: an interview with Doc Jensen from Christianity Today! I knew I liked this guy. XD It turns out he's a Christian after all, and has some very good connections to make with the show. Enjoy!

[wildpurplechild]

The end made me reminiscent of the end of Wolf's Rain. I felt they did a good job with rapping up the ending as well. Good bye Lost, you will be missed.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

I'm watching the final for the first time tonight (it aired in Australia last night). I believe that the last country to receive LOST will have screened it by early June. Judging by reactions (non-spoilery of course), it seems many people loved it and some hated it.

[Radical Dreamer]

LOL. Oh man, you guys. For those of you wondering about the imagery in the credits of the show:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/26/lost-final-scenes-wreckage/

That's so funny. XD