The Christian School Syndrome

[KougaHane]

If anyone else here is or has attended a Christian school, you probably can guess what I'm talking about. I've been in a Christian school for every year of elementary and high school except 4th grade, but even one year I saw a massive difference between public and Christian school. The problem is, the difference was that I was treated as an equal in.... PUBLIC SCHOOL. The "Christian School Syndrome" Is the fact that many in Christian schools think they are more intelligent and therefore better than others, and can be very judgmental, sheltered, and legalistic. There are also people, however, who make straight A's in Bible Class but drink it up on the weekends and deny God. The latter of course only attend Christian school to please/impress their parents. Christian schools should train students to use their education for God, not for themselves.

Any thoughts, questions, comments? Anyone else have a similar or different experience?

[Mithrandir]

Hey there, KougaHane. Welcome to the board! This thread was caught up by our automatic mod scripts, so it's been delayed a bit while we had a chance to decide if it should be posted.

CAA has a fairly specific policy about what kinds of topics are and are not allowed on the site. Among other things, at this time CAA does not allow the debate of political or theological concepts. With all the anime boards out there that are full of infighting, name-calling, flaming, and worse, we strive to be a board where people are free to discus anime without worrying about getting flamed.

We extend that courtesy to all topics raised on the board. In the past, many topics have been placed on various "do not discuss" lists because the members were unable to discuss them without devolving into flame wars.

So why am I bringing all this up? Many people have deeply held beliefs on the concept of education - and specifically Christian education. I'm approving this thread, but I'm adding a caveat for people who want to post: Keep it intelligent and logical. We understand you may feel passionate about how you feel (one way or the other), but there's no excuse for rudeness or disrespect.

[EricTheFred]

Welcome!

Can't really speak to attending private school. I went to a public school and attended a public university. I do know this, though. Any time people find themselves as part of a group separate from the masses, they will feel the temptation to see themselves as better than others. It doesn't matter whether the separation is academic, sports, arts, religion, economic background, the temptation will come.

In public school you were among 'the masses', which is why you noticed a difference, but I can guarantee that even there you could have still found those who thought themselves better because they were part of some particular group. What kind of group doesn't matter; it's the same underlying dynamic. Sociologists make entire careers out of studying this tendency.

But just as with so many other human weaknesses, the only thing any of us can do about it is to guard against it within our own hearts and teach our children well.

[Radical Dreamer]

Any thoughts, questions, comments? Anyone else have a similar or different experience?

Well, as someone who attended a small Christian school for all 13 years of my grade school education (5K-12), I've learned a few things about the Christian education system, and I feel like sharing them with you might be a good idea.

First of all, there really is very little difference between the behavior of the students in Christian and public schools. It's not necessarily about the school, though. The only difference comes with the attitude of the children who attend (and no, not all students who go to a Christian school know Jesus--and even if they do, they're still prone to making mistakes). My school had students who got in trouble for getting drunk, selling drugs, and who got pregnant. It wasn't because we were in a "Christian school," though--it was because that school was full of humans who make mistakes, regardless of the label affixed to the school they attend.

The "Christian School Syndrome" Is the fact that many in Christian schools think they are more intelligent and therefore better than others, and can be very judgmental, sheltered, and legalistic.

I think this is a pretty big generalization. I had plenty of friends who neither thought they were more intelligent than others, nor were they judgmental of others. That's not to say I didn't know anyone like that, but again, that can be found at any institution trying to teach a bunch of teenagers, Christian or not. As far as "sheltered and legalistic" are concerned, those are also pretty generalized, though I've seen examples of both. My point, though, is that a sweeping generalization like that one doesn't really apply once you realize that people are still people, regardless of where they go to school.

The latter of course only attend Christian school to please/impress their parents. Christian schools should train students to use their education for God, not for themselves.

Actually, a number of people I knew at my Christian school were in attendance because their parents made them go, or because they were already "problem children," and their parents sent them there to "fix them up." It very rarely worked. As far as the purpose of a Christian school, the purpose of the one I attended was to serve as a source of discipleship to the students. Using your education "for God" can also be construed in so many ways, and I'm not sure it's something that a school can really teach. It has to be something you choose to do because you feel God calling you to it, not something that a teacher can drill into your mind.

All of this being said, I don't think that a "Christian school" experience is for everyone, not even for every Christian. I enjoyed all of the years that I spent at my school, and even though I had my frustrations with facets of the system, I feel like it was an important factor in my spiritual growth. My brother was the complete opposite, though, simply because of his personality. In the end, one type of schooling isn't necessarily better than the other, people are just different and require different kinds of structure in their schools.

[mechana2015]

Our local Christian school was where a large portion of the kids expelled from the local high school attended so.... yeah.

[MightiMidget]

I went to private Christian schools all my life. From Preschool-3rd grade I attended one so small and..."elite" that at its peak of students for the whole school (Pre-8th grade) it had under 90 students. From 4-5, I went to a Christian homeschool, from 6-11th I went to another private school. I only ever took one class at a public college, and I'll be honest and say it scared me to death.

You can't blame the students at a school for being sheltered. Being sheltered is an upbringing. I grew up on James Bond movies, but it took me until I turned 18 to stop freaking whenever I heard people swearing or talking about sex in the parking lot. It still makes me very uncomfortable, but I don't feel like I'm going to break down crying anymore.

I met my second non-Christian friend my senior year of my /really/ conservative, private Christian school. He's Wiccan, he's rebellious, and borderline seethes when you mention Christ. He is definitely not there because he wants to be.

On one last note...when I was finally forced to mingle with all the people at my school senior year, I learned that we were pretty much an underground of trying to find loopholes in all the school rules and regulations. We Christian private schoolers can be sneaky...hahaha...

That was all really disjointed, sorry.

[Bobtheduck]

There are two types of Christian schools. The schools where they try to micromanage the schools to make sure everyone is up to their standards, and the ones where the kids who were expelled from public schools and corrective schools for violent behavior go. Well, ok, so the two sometimes overlap, but there you go.

I went to the former for a long time. I think it was a good experience, even if there was some ridiculous stuff there (they got me to throw away some very valuable toys because they were "evil" and they sent out pamphlets about things like acid in fake tattoos as well as Jack Chick tracts) Even so, I've never met nicer people in my life than the principal and the senior pastor of the church was a gamer. No joke. Really into Mario in particular, and we had old arcade games at the school. Oh, and one of our teachers used to be a showgirl... which was kind of funny in retrospect... and kind of funny then, but more because the movie had just come out and it was always funny to hear that word. That's actually how we found out. We were joking about the movie (that, as far as I knew, none of us had seen) and she said "I don't see what the big deal is... I used to be a showgirl."

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I'm gonna weigh in here as someone who spent each half of my standard schooling at parochial and public respectively. First off, my school didn't fit into the "Either the kids expelled, or the frustrating micromanaging of the students" field. Yeah, the teachers could be overbearing at times, but micromanage is definitely not a word that comes to mind when I think of their attitudes. Not that I haven't seen other schools doing that.

Now, people being people, I noticed relatively little difference between public and private schools in terms of the kinds of people you encountered there. At both places I met wonderful people and I met some of the worst kinds of people. Perhaps because of the nature of the staff and what they were allowed to do at the school we were not exposed to some of the horrors that I was in public school, but attitudes didn't vary much. You still had a shy and unempowered lower caste of geeks freaks and nerds and then a confident, overbearing, and egotistical uper caste of the popular kids. We weren't populated enough for them to spread into the different cliques you'd see in a public school. It was just those who were popular versus those who were not. Different, but much the same.

The frustration I can see might be attributed to the fact that we as Christians are called to be different. Honestly, I rarely see a kid who exudes many Christlike qualities before they've reached at least mid-high school, and then it can be rare until they get to College. Leaving them free to make their own decisions seems to be just as effective at times, if not more effective, than placing your thumb down on them and foisting your shared religion upon the kids who otherwise share it with you in a heavy-handed way. There needs to be some sort of middle-ground between the two.

So, to emphasize, no I don't see either option as being wholly different across the board. There will always been curve defying examples in either camp, but for the most part kids are kids, and kids are generally prone to being cruel to one-another if one were to make a generalization. Generalizations being what they are, don't hold true across the board, though.

[goldenspines]

There are also people, however, who make straight A's in Bible Class but drink it up on the weekends and deny God.

In all honesty, you will find hypocrites everywhere in the Christian society, not just in Christian schools. Obviously though, Christian schools students will be scrutinized because they are "expected" to be awesome Christians, because heck, they go to a school "for it".

I did not attended a Christian school, I was home-schooled all 13 years of school. But I think the two relate in terms of stereotypes. If you only have a few snapshots of how "Christian school" (or home-schooled) students look, it's very easy to assume that all of them are like that.
I can attest that some home school students I've met are very much like the way you described Christian school students (sheltered, judgmental, legalistic), but definitely not all of them are like that. I would assume the same of Christian school students, some will be more sheltered that others. I don't think that's the school's fault though.

[Cap'n Nick]

There are two types of Christian schools. The schools where they try to micromanage the schools to make sure everyone is up to their standards, and the ones where the kids who were expelled from public schools and corrective schools for violent behavior go.

Funny you mention that--I went to a private grade school that did K-6 as the first and 7-8 as the second. Needless to say, junior high was kind of rocky.

After grade school I went on to both public and private high schools and colleges, and had all sorts of good and bad experiences. The quality of my time seemed to have nothing to do with the type of institution--it was always the people that made it or broke it.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Funny you mention that--I went to a private grade school that did K-6 as the first and 7-8 as the second. Needless to say, junior high was kind of rocky.

After grade school I went on to both public and private high schools and colleges, and had all sorts of good and bad experiences. The quality of my time seemed to have nothing to do with the type of institution--it was always the people that made it or broke it.

Yeah, pretty much my experience as well. Jerks and elitism will exist in any institution. Those people the Kouga mentioned exist in public school as well, they just don't use religion as their excuse for self-important smugness. Heh, actually they didn't at my private school. It was hip to spurn authority.

[CrimsonRyu17]

I've been in a Christian school for every year of elementary and high school except 4th grade, but even one year I saw a massive difference between public and Christian school. The problem is, the difference was that I was treated as an equal in.... PUBLIC SCHOOL. ?

I've never been in a christian school, just a hellhole named a "school", but I know exactly what you're talking about. My non-religious friends treat me like an actual person and far better than all of my christian friends besides one single person.

Conveniently enough, I made an entry in my lj not too long ago about this same issue. I don't think he's so much focusing on the educational part, but at the fact that non-religious people treat him far better than Christians in a Christian environment. I personally was and still am depressed, angry, and confused at this issue as well.

[K. Ayato]

My sister and I both attended a Christian private school. For my experience, it was very strict and there were plenty of drama incidents, particularly because of the rules plus lots of students came from a variety of backgrounds. Looking back, the curriculum used wasn't all that bad, but it definitely went through a lot of Christian filters, if you will. Some of the horrific events of American history were so watered down in private school that I was shocked at how gruesome they really were once I learned about them in great detail while in college.

The good thing in it, was that I got ahead almost 2 full grades while taking courses over the summer and I graduated early. The not-so-good thing was that due to being in a bubble, I had no idea what the real world was like and had trouble interacting in it once I started college.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I will say this. My first week in college I did notice one difference. I had a major leg up on the public school kids in my classes when they started introducing curriculum that at one point was accepted to be something you have to know before going into college. It is my understanding a lot of that has changed.

[EricTheFred]

I will say this. My first week in college I did notice one difference. I had a major leg up on the public school kids in my classes when they started introducing curriculum that at one point was accepted to be something you have to know before going into college. It is my understanding a lot of that has changed.

This problem varies by geography. I went to high school in what was at that time a smaller, outlying suburb (113 students in my graduating class and half were kids who traveled in from the farm.) My school was so weak on science that it didn't offer a chemistry course at all, but my university expected an incoming science or engineering major to have taken high school chemistry; it was a prerequisite for the freshman course. I nearly had to take a remedial course at a community college, but I managed to get the professor to waive the prereq for me.

[Jingo Jaden]

As one who has both gone to public and private secular schools I think I can safely state that meeting people with lewdly low morals or an extraordinary pompousness is nothing out of the ordinary. Can't suspect it would be very altering on different types of schools as I have been in both low ranking and prestigious schools so far. It is always the same game, even when you get to the industry you will find that some people just don't grow up, be it for better or for worse.

I've never gone too christian school, although we had a lot of religion study at elementary and junior high. The wast majority of the students had no particular faith, or at least showed very little. Heck, even low-level agnosticism was rare. Did the students behave exceptionally? No, but some behaved better than others, that is for sure. I was a complete bookworm in my early years and got a fair deal of backtalk for that, but it was quite common to be made fun of regardless who you were. Only a few students got into a safe-zone and were held in high regard by most. If something stood out about you, and this goes into race as well, you were likely to be picked on.

There was very little violence however. Only a few mentionable big problems. Teachers did what they could considering the resources they had. As far as the high prestigious private school goes it for the most part gives you an assignment and expects you to be done with it on time. It works, but it is not ideal. The time to follow up on the assignments is very limited.

But yeah, public schools are no stranger to inappropriate behavior on my part.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

[quote="EricTheFred (post: 1377882)"]This problem varies by geography. I went to high school in what was at that time a smaller, outlying suburb (113 students in my graduating class and half were kids who traveled in from the farm.) My school was so weak on science that it didn't offer a chemistry course at all, but my university expected an incoming science or engineering major to have taken high school chemistry]

Most of the U's I've attended have been very nice like that. When one of my profs found out that I was pretty much the only student in the class that had any idea what the MLA format was and how to use it, she pretty much just rewrote the class and moved from there. Honestly, even though we were required to write in it during HS it was nice to have the refresher. Also, most of my profs afterwards weren't really sticklers for making sure the format was perfect after that.

[Cloud500]

I went to public school through 9th grade then transferred to a small, private Christian school and stayed there for the next three years of high school until I graduated. Honestly it was more or less the same as public school. Like others have mentioned, their are hypocrites in every type of school. I still had to deal with the same types of people at the Christian school. Most of the kids at the private school had been in Christian schools their entire lives and were no more or less innocent or sheltered than the kids I knew in public school. I never noticed anyone at the private school being more judgmental than those at the public school. I think that all of the high school drama was more of an issue at the private school because, being a very small school, it was way more noticeable than it is in a public school where some may just not know or overlook it. I met some very nice people at the private school as well as some very not so nice people; just like in public school. Though, I honestly felt like I was treated better for the most part at the private school. Yes, kids were still jerks, but there were more people who were willing to reach out to others. Basically, my theory is that public school works for some and it doesn't for others. The same can be said about private schools.

[Anystazya]

This problem varies by geography. I went to high school in what was at that time a smaller, outlying suburb (113 students in my graduating class and half were kids who traveled in from the farm.)

Dude, I have 113 students in my entire school. xD

The problem is, the difference was that I was treated as an equal in.... PUBLIC SCHOOL.

I've never been in a christian school, just a hellhole named a "school", but I know exactly what you're talking about. My non-religious friends treat me like an actual person and far better than all of my christian friends besides one single person.

Were you guys unlucky, or was I blessed? I'm accepted by my Christian friends more. We can connect on a completely different level than with my non-Christian friends. I can be myself with them, and know that they won't judge me based on it.

Anyways, I've attended public school my entire life, so I don't know what Christian schools are like. (I just know that my friend's cousin goes to one and they get to have chapel every Tuesday and Thursday.) But I think that it honestly depends on the person, as has been said before. And sure, some people may have a "judgmental, sheltered, and legalistic" attitude, but shouldn't you be witnessing to them, rather than judging them like this? Humans aren't perfect, and just because they go to a Christian school, doesn't mean they're always going to be good little Christians, too.

[minakichan]

Public school kids hate public school and private school kids hate private school.

Trufax.

[mechana2015]

Were you guys unlucky, or was I blessed? I'm accepted by my Christian friends more. We can connect on a completely different level than with my non-Christian friends. I can be myself with them, and know that they won't judge me based on it.

I'd say you were blessed. I didn't find good, close, Christian friends that stuck with me until like...halfway through college and I found them ALL through CAA. My best friends before then were either nonreligious, or of entirely different faiths.

[Nate]

Public school kids hate public school and private school kids hate private school.

Trufax.

Also private school kids' parents hate public school. You forgot that one. But that one's okay because we hate them back.

[mechana2015]

Also private school kids' parents hate public school. You forgot that one. But that one's okay because we hate them back.

This is probably the more accurate statement.

[Ingemar]

I went to a private Christian school since 3rd grade. The first such school I went to I honestly hated, because the kids teased me. For a brief moment I then switched to a public school. It wasn't really better, I was shocked at first at the bad language, but I learned to adapt. (I was deeply unimpressed with the curriculum, which was mostly make-work).

I went to a different Christian school from 6-12. What can I say... the school was awesome. I was aware of the negative stereotypes about Christian schools, but didn't see any of them in this one. (OK, they were a bit too in love with dispensationalism and Tim La Haye eschatology but that's it). I guess since the school was attatched to an Evangelical church founded by an ex-hippie in California, there was more emphasis on love and joy than on draconian made up rules. (Then again, we switched to uniforms... in MY SENIOR YEAR.... urgghhh).

What I think helps is that the teachers and students came from all walks of life... and the tuition (at the time) was really low so that kids from poorer areas could enroll. We also had a good basketball team and one of my classmates is in the NBA. Um... that was a tangent. Actually, the school emphasized using academics and athletics as a witness and all that.

So.... every school is different. Some suck and some don't. That goes for Christian schools too.

And Nate, why the invective?

[Peanut]

Also private school kids' parents hate public school. You forgot that one. But that one's okay because we hate them back.

...my parents don't hate public school...oh wait, I don't count because I'm in college.

[airichan623]

As a fellow Christian school kid, I can understand where you are coming from. But, again, don't generalize everyone in Christian schools into the same group. I went to a K-12 Christian school all my life, but in 3 different locations. One was a nondenominational school (the one I attended the longest- 1st-7th, 9th-12th), and the other two were both Christian Reformed.

In both, I encountered those who were on fire for God, as well as those who partied on the weekends. None of us are perfect. However, please remember that not everyone at Christian schools is a Christian. Some are there for, as I call it, rehab from public school. Others are there because its an "elite private school with a safe environment." Some attend because they truly want to learn more about God.

In summary, both Christian and public schools have problems. I dont judge those who attend either. I attend both. Christian schools, because of their small size, have issues with gossip and legalism; but for the most part, there isnt any making out in the hallways or drug busts.

PLEASE dont give up on your Christian school. Look for some who are on fire for God, and who knows, you might find some fellow anime fans along the way. I did.

[Ante Bellum]

My brother went to the local Catholic school (I went there for a few years, first through third grade.) for a couple years to escape our public school. I didn't though, because either way people kind of hate me. :/
I personally don't care whether or not a person attends a private school. I don't care ABOUT private school. I've had bad experiences in both (Especially my current public school, but I've been there more than twice as long as private school.), I hate both.
I'm not sure if my brother ever did find a safe haven there, but now he's back at my school and it's not going well. Hey, just today both of us were having stuff thrown at us. I couldn't imagine any of those kids actually enrolling in a Christian school.

[Sammy Boy]

I attended a Christian primary school whilst living in Hong Kong - to be honest it was quite strict and I didn't enjoy it, because some of the rules were really arbitrary. However, that is a reflection of Hong Kong schools in general and not specifically Christian schools.

Growing up in Australia, I attended public schools (private schools cost too much) during both the remainder of my primary school years and high school. It was both good and bad, since there were both good and bad kids.

On the other hand, there was a nearby Christian school, and sometimes I saw their students on trains on the way home. From what I have observed they seemed better behaved (didn't make a lot of noise, didn't hear any swearing from them, etc.), and they seemed to have genuine friendships amongst each other.

[Nate]

It's weird. I keep seeing statements like "The Christian school kids behaved poorly" or "The Christian school kids were well-behaved." I don't get it. Are we holding them to a higher standard than ourselves? Or to a higher standard than a Christian at a public school? People who attend a Christian school are just as human and sinful as us. It's just a bit nonsensical to me. I wouldn't expect a Christian school kid to be better behaved or anything just because the word "Christian" is in front of their school, it just doesn't seem right. They have no obligation to act any better than we do.

And Nate, why the invective?

I would hope you realize that I don't actually hate them, which is more than I can say about how they feel about public schools, though I suppose school is a "place" or an "institution" rather than a person so it's okay to hate that (ignoring the fact that a school is made up of who is in it).

I dunno I guess I'm just a bit tired of it? Public schools exist and not everyone has the money or the free time to do private or homeschool, yet there's this tendency to look down on public schools as "evil godless institutions" full of horrible people. Likewise there's a tendency of public school people to look down on those private schoolers as rich snobs or dumb theists, or hey who hasn't heard the stereotype about how homeschoolers will never function in the real world because they never got social skills?

Neither group is right, it's all stereotypes. Public schools are fine, private schools are fine, I personally hate homeschooling passionately but if someone wants to do that then whatever, they can go for it. It's a free country. *shrug*

My comment was mostly tongue-in-cheek but it's pretty obvious that parents that send their kids to private school hate or distrust public schools, because there's zero reason to send kids to a private school otherwise. Homeschooling has a bit more to it than hating public school (sometimes public school isn't an option, if you live in small towns or sparsely populated areas) so I didn't think it would be right to mention them.

And that isn't the kid's fault their parents feel like that. So there's no need to treat those kids badly because of how their parents feel (even though that's how school usually works anyway; I got picked on a lot because of decisions my parents made that I had nothing to do with).

I just wish there wasn't this huge divide of public schools vs. Christian schools because it's not up to the kids going there, it's up to their parents. Blame them, not the kids who have no power over the decision.

EDIT: Not saying that's going on in this thread by the way. It's really civil here but I remember threads about similar topics in the past that didn't go so well.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Actually in my case, yeah, my parents do have a distrust of the public schools. I was taken out because I was literally being placed in a situation by a few evil kids where school-life was becoming unliveable for me. Thankfully, Mom and Dad found a school that would take me in mid-quarter despite not being of that denomination. It was an issue we were having with the other local schools. Furthermore, when I came down with cancer a year later we turned to the public schools in our area who are obligated to provide tutoring to kids in their district as the parents continue to pay taxes to fund the schools and yet the local public school still refused. The private school stepped in and assisted us for no charge, even going so far as to call in a teacher that had broken ties with that school on very bad terms because he and I had a good rapport.

NOW, that said, my particular experience there was bad. Are public schools ergo a bad institution? NO. My situation was particular to me, and was not a measuring stick for every other experience there by any measure what-so-ever. I've said it before. Prigs exist in every school.

However, there are other reasons a parent might choose to homeschool or Private School. They can be more selective with the institution as they can inspect various schools and choose one with a higher quality curiculum. As I've said before, I came to university more prepared than many of my contemporaries from the local districts. Does Parochial=better? No. It just happened that my school was both a parochial school and a college prepatory school. Again, though, this does not hold true for every public school. Personally, I plan on sending my kids to public school despite my own experiences (or in some cases because - for instance, the school's heavy-handedness with our shared Religion cause nearly everyone in my graduating class to walk away with a broken and shattered faith which I'm certain they've not recovered).

Edit:

Etoh's Wall of Text does 2,168 damage!