Messianic Judaism

[Bunny]

Is anyone here a Messianic Jew? I've recently moved to a new city and haven't found much luck in finding a protestant church that I like. I've been fascinated by the idea of Messianic Judaism for a few months now and I'm so close to trying it but I'm afraid to rush in on a new tradition without knowing what to expect. I'm really curious about what's involved in services and how much Jewish tradition is practiced. Maybe I should just quit being a pansy and go talk to the Rabbi but I'd be interested if anyone had input.

[EricTheFred]

How familiar are you with Messianic Judaism? I'm asking this because I've met people before who have confused this concept with "Jews for Jesus" and other Jewish-Christian groups.

(EDIT: I'm leaving the rest of my original text below, but Wikipedia defines a 'Messianic Judaism' that is very different from the one I've encountered. They are talking about a group with similar theology to the Hebrew Christians and Jews for Jesus. I suspect the real story is, there are more than one group using this name.)

The Messianic Judaism which I am familiar with is not a Christian group. It is Judaism with an emphasis on the first coming of the Messiah. In other words, they aren't by any definition that Christians would normally recognize followers of Our Lord. They are waiting for a 'true' Messiah to appear the first time. (although theoretically if they were to recognize Him as their salvation during His second coming, I'm thinking they should still be saved. This is theological debate though, so any discussion on this question needs to move to theologyweb.)

There are various groups, normally considered Protestant I believe, who are theologically Christian but retain Jewish worship and life practices (i.e., keep the Sabbath, live Kosher, etc.). Is this what you were looking for?

[shooraijin]

EricTheFred, all the Messianic Jew congregations I have been to (I've attended a couple) all confess Jesus as Lord.

[Bunny]

The local congregations I'm interested in are confessed Christians too. I keep looking into it because I have this growing conviction that I need to understand Judaism before I can fully understand and appreciate Jesus.

[EricTheFred]

EricTheFred, all the Messianic Jew congregations I have been to (I've attended a couple) all confess Jesus as Lord.

Yes, after doing some more lunchtime web research, I've become more convinced that this is generally the case, and what I ran into in the past was some minor oddball group. I could find some Jewish groups that fit the description I gave, but none that called themselves 'Messianic Judaism'. Either I got the two things confused somewhere along the way, or the people I encountered before have since changed their name to avoid confusion with the Christian group.

[Davidizer13]

There are various groups, normally considered Protestant I believe, who are theologically Christian but retain Jewish worship and life practices (i.e., keep the Sabbath, live Kosher, etc.). Is this what you were looking for?

Yes, I'm a member of one of those groups: the Church of God 7th Day. There's a considerable crossover between us and Messianic Judaism, and with other Sabbatarian groups and Messianic Judaism. Some of the members of my church don't eat unclean meats (pork, shellfish), though not following the other kosher laws. A few observe the Feast of Tabernacles, celebrating it by going camping for a week and spending more time with God. But the main difference between us and the average Christian is that we worship on Saturday; other than that, we're a pretty normal church, and I wouldn't consider us Messianic Jews, though, so probably not what you're looking for.

My suggestion to you, Bunny, since you're interested in Jewish culture, would be to read the Old Testament some more, because that'll explain the source of many of the customs they practice today. The Gospel of Mark appears to have been written for a non-Jewish audience, and has some further explanation on some Jewish customs being practiced in those times.

[shooraijin]

7th Day? That's not Seventh Day Adventist, is it? I have a lot of SDA friends, which is why I ask.

To get back to your post, Bunny, I think you would find them culturally fascinating, but it is truly intended for people with a strong Jewish identity. It's not that they mind outsiders, but outsiders may not know what to do with it. However, their commitment to Christ is IMHO not in question.

[Bunny]

That's what I was fearing, Shooraijan. Thanks for the input, all.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

The local congregations I'm interested in are confessed Christians too. I keep looking into it because I have this growing conviction that I need to understand Judaism before I can fully understand and appreciate Jesus.

You can actually come about this on your own without needing to join a particular group in order to understand it. There are studies and such abounding which will help you understand the culture. Your local bible school might also have non-credit classes on the subject of the Old Testament which you can take as well.

[Bunny]

I've actually taken some Old Testament classes but they were taught by my old (protestant) youth pastor, and though I thought they were enriching, I think my problem is I've come to feel weird in protestant churches. It just strikes me as odd that most of our religious practices are handed down from the Romans and/or pagans and we really don't celebrate the Jewish roots of our religion. I've had nothing but good experiences in my "home" church but I do often feel the strangeness of the whole spectacle.

[Mithrandir]

It just strikes me as odd that most of our religious practices are handed down from the Romans and/or pagans and we really don't celebrate the Jewish roots of our religion.

Our of curiosity, have you looked into where some of the "Jewish roots" practices came from...?

[Bunny]

If you're referring to how they mimic the other pagan religions of their time, yes. Does it really detract from my feelings? Somehow, the answer is no. If anything, it leads me to question the validity of anything I do religiously but that leads me down a very dark path. I'll stop at saying that I suppose the most important thing is that I have a church community that cares about me and keeps me connected to God. Commence the zipping of the lips.

[Dante]

That would certainly be an interesting spiritual journey I'd think. I know my mother has attended a church (synagogue?) for Messianic Jews in the past and yes, they believed that Jesus was the Messiah and the whole nine yards. She loved the experience and has stated several times she wants to bring me there.

My Mom did a lot of church hopping with me when I was younger (I've been to the Mennonites, the Mormons, the Baptists, the Lutherans, basically all over the place... they're all cool and basically they are all more similar then they are different in basic beliefs, where they differ is in the personality of the group) because she started a family tradition of allowing her kids to pick their religion and religious views (I am very grateful for that). Ironically I've never been to any Messianic Jewish Churches though (although as I stated, she has and she loved it).

I'd say drop on by one Saturday (I'm fairly sure they don't meet on Sundays). From my past experiences, if you come in with an open mind to at least understand them, you'll generally have a pretty fun experience (maybe you'll feel a little awkward but just imagine yourself as a small child, learning the new things from the community around you). If you don't feel right about it afterwards, then move on, plenty of people pop into and out of the crowd over time. If you don't want to be contacted, just avoid the forms to be filled out (easy enough).

Besides which, from the way I've seen it, the Jewish culture is one of the friendliest most open cultures on the face of the planet. Despite all they've gone through as a people, I've always found them remarkably open to outsiders... Plus... you have far less to worry about in terms of pre-requisites because you're not a boy .

-Pascal

[Etoh*the*Greato]

If you're referring to how they mimic the other pagan religions of their time, yes. Does it really detract from my feelings? Somehow, the answer is no. If anything, it leads me to question the validity of anything I do religiously but that leads me down a very dark path. I'll stop at saying that I suppose the most important thing is that I have a church community that cares about me and keeps me connected to God. Commence the zipping of the lips.

Really, so long as the fundamentals are there, I don't think it much matters. Ceremony is just ceremony, and much like the hymn debate of contemporary versus traditional, I think it is up to what helps you worship and connect to God best. Do ya thang.

[Bunny]

Thanks, Pascal. That's pretty reassuring.

[Yamamaya]

I'm a Seventh Day Adventist. Church of God 7th day is a bit different from SDAism. Although both groups keep the Sabbath, SDAs have different eschalogical views(I don't believe in many of these eschalogical views myself but I won't pursue the discussion in respect of CAA rules).

Good luck in your research in Messianic Judaism. I myself have been fascinated by Messianic Judaism.

[Mr. Hat'n'Clogs]

I went to a church for Messianic Jews on my mission trip to Denver once. I wasn't particularly fond of the pastor's style, but otherwise it was a great experience except for the homeless man who was there for just the meal and started shouting in the middle of the sermon. When we first went there, I was all confused when I saw it was a synagogue but had obvious Christian materials there. I liked it though, and the pastor was a pretty nice guy.

Edit:I probably shouldn't have put that there.

[Mithrandir]

Let's not get derailed on that one, though.

[Davidizer13]

I'm a Seventh Day Adventist. Church of God 7th day is a bit different from SDAism. Although both groups keep the Sabbath, SDAs have different eschalogical views(I don't believe in many of these eschalogical views myself but I won't pursue the discussion in respect of CAA rules).

Yup, I'm not Adventist, just Church of God, 7th Day. The main difference between us and them include non-belief in Ellen G. White as a prophet, but any further discussion is beyond the scope of this forum.

[shooraijin]

Quite. Ms White is a discussion for another place.

[Zarn Ishtare]

I'm Messianic, but I couldn't tell you much about it, being in the infancy of my chosen path.

[Animus Seed]

I've actually taken some Old Testament classes but they were taught by my old (protestant) youth pastor, and though I thought they were enriching, I think my problem is I've come to feel weird in protestant churches. It just strikes me as odd that most of our religious practices are handed down from the Romans and/or pagans and we really don't celebrate the Jewish roots of our religion. I've had nothing but good experiences in my "home" church but I do often feel the strangeness of the whole spectacle.

I agree that it's important to remember the Jewish roots of Christianity (look at how much longer the Old Testament is than the New Testament, after all!), we shouldn't forget our Gentile heritage, either. Christianity could have been more Jewish than it is, but the apostles decided not to try to force the Jewish ceremonies on Gentile converts. Read through Galatians, with its message of freedom and reassurance, I think that would be comforting.

Holy Spirit guide your spiritual journey, friend.