Over the weekend

[Shilohan ninja]

This last Sunday, my pastor showed a video durring the service that pretty much left my lower jaw dragging on the floor.
I don't know about you, but this made me think about how we as a culture view children.

What do you think?

[Dante]

It's an interesting video, but for our family it's less then 1.x, it's coming up on 0. I'm not planning on getting married at the current time (somewhat opposed to the idea, I'm not even willing to date) and due to other circumstances for my sibling I will likely be the last branch from our part of the family tree. An entire segment of the Evans name is about to vanish. (And it's premeditated )

The thought that this could happen is somewhat shocking to my parents, but that is simply how the cookie crumbles, I studied too much as a teenager and now I'm more interested in math then girls. Thus, the world my children's children will experience won't exist, because there won't be any children's children. There may be math theorems, but not kids.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't dislike kids, kids are great and full of fascinating potential, I'm just not interested in the whole pro-creation part and massive costs involved that I could be placing towards new knowledge. (I'm also not so sure I WANT to bring kids into this kind of world) That stated, most people when they're planning a family are more concerned about making sure they can put the most effort into their children and not wondering if they can produce a large set of future off-spring for the church. That's generally a bad way to plan a family. If you can't support and nourish those children, you shouldn't have them.

That is a part of why we're seeing these low birth rates. Parents are trying to maximize their ability to support the children they have and there is also an issue of some married couples losing interest in having off-spring. Wrong? Not really, they're just not interested and you can't force someone to be that way. They don't have that investment in the future so to claim the world is going to be different as they are leaving it doesn't offer much incentive.

We as a Christian society are also hindering such things as procreation by adding much hatred towards it. As a group we practically despise human sexuality as evil and thus when people avoid it we shouldn't act horribly surprised that the birth rate is down. People are getting older and older until they marry as they spend more time acquiring an education in order to match the capitalist requirements of an increasingly competive work environment and thus are less fertile when they get married (Notice that generally the poor and lower class families are the ones with the most children and often start to have them younger). Ultimately is this wrong? No, the advice to avoid sinful tendencies in sins of the flesh is a staple of Christianity, and helps to build strong healthy families, but don't expect us to be fruitful and multiply if the Muslims are a little less lax about this or find some way around it.

So to put things together. This is bound to happen. But it's bound to happen for the new immigrants as well as they seek to enter into a competive market. But, because they continually have new immigrants that still have high birth rates, yes, we will eventually fade out as a recognized culture, but it is doubtful that our culture as a whole will simply dissapear, it will simply merge into a new one. How Christ is present in this new world, that is up to him as he controls the fate of the world. If that is the fate he wants, then who am I to stop him? I simply make math formulas.

[Cognitive Gear]

I've got to be honest, this video seems to try to scare the viewer, as if an Islamic majority is something to fear. I can't agree with that.

What does scare me is that this was shown in a Christian church. Videos which are created to spur people to the action of sharing the scriptures are great, except for when it uses fear instead of love as the motivator. We must be brave enough to love our "enemies" (As insinuated in this video) as Christ did.

[Dante]

I've got to be honest, this video seems to try to scare the viewer, as if an Islamic majority is something to fear. I can't agree with that.

What does scare me is that this was shown in a Christian church. Videos which are created to spur people to the action of sharing the scriptures are great, except for when it uses fear instead of love as the motivator. We must be brave enough to love our "enemies" (As insinuated in this video) as Christ did.

Agreed.

[Doubleshadow]

Am I supposed to be surprised by this?

The church has been complacent for a long while. What does it matter if a person is a cornfeed Midwestern atheist or Saudi Muslim immigrant? Share the love of Christ anyway.

Also, why oh why do people think you must have kids? Didn't Paul mention it is easier to go after souls if you are signal, let alone childless?

Finally, cultures live and die. Oh freaking well. America as it is will just be another blip on history just like the version of 50 years ago or 100 years ago. Christ is not cultural. I can be a Christian anywhere and am not limited by culture. It is sad to think that people are so lazy and comfortable that a simple and 1,000 yr old fact terrifies them.

Maybe if we become a disdained or persecuted minority we'll get real about our faith again, and not be so casual about the whole thing. Myself included. Me? I see a good thing in all this.

PS - I resent Latinos being represented as not "our culture".

[LadyRushia]

Maybe if we become a disdained or persecuted minority we'll get real about our faith again, and not be so casual about the whole thing. Myself included. Me? I see a good thing in all this.

This.

I've got to be honest, this video seems to try to scare the viewer, as if an Islamic majority is something to fear. I can't agree with that.

What does scare me is that this was shown in a Christian church. Videos which are created to spur people to the action of sharing the scriptures are great, except for when it uses fear instead of love as the motivator. We must be brave enough to love our "enemies" (As insinuated in this video) as Christ did.

And this.

Fear of our fellow human beings is exactly what prevents us from sharing Christ's love with them and I find something very wrong with that. I think there are more important things to worry about than having more babies to save cultures that change all the time anyway.

[CrimsonRyu17]

omg gaiz lets haev moar babie christan soldurs and beet the islams.

[Fish and Chips]

We'll have the best church little league team ever this year guys.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

We'll have the best church little league team ever this year guys.

Not for another nine years, bud.

[Shilohan ninja]

I really like where you guys have started to take this discussion and I am begining to see some truth in what you're saying. I would agree that the vid is trying in essence to scare us into having more children and that's not right, I will admit. If anything it should encourage us to be the best representation of Christ that we can possibly be, wheather we have children or not. Just as being born into a Christian family does not inherently make one a christian automatically, neither does it mean those growing up in a muslim home will grow up muslim, although I've noticed they're very strict and deeply religious about bringing children up as muslims and will not tollerate family members converting to other religions.
I also agree with Paul that it is easier to evangelize on the mission field when you don't have a family to provide for, but you'll also notice that God said in the begining to be fruitful and multiply (within the set boundaries, of course). I've also heard it said many times that children are a blessing, contrary to what popculture would have us believe. I think this is something we should seek God on and ask him for the answers to these questions. I don't want to bring across the idea that I'm promoting the notion of evangelization through procreation, I just found this to be an interesting controversy and wanted to see what you all thought of it. Keep it coming.

(As a side note, Pascal, I don't doubt that there are people who never get married or even have children, though I would caution you on saying you'll never have children. I'm not saying I know God's will for you, just that it's wise to not burn your bridges behind you. As the saying goes, never say never. If you know for a fact that God has told you otherwise, ignore me. I just call 'em like I see 'em, and I don't always see straight.)

-SN-

[Nate]

you'll also notice that God said in the begining to be fruitful and multiply (within the set boundaries, of course).

Why oh why does everyone forget the SECOND half of that command? "Be fruitful and increase in number]fill the earth and subdue it.[/b]"

Unless you count Antarctica, which would be impossible to sustain life on in large numbers, we've pretty much accomplished that.

Now I'm not going to throw out numbers and I'm not going to say "This is what is happening now!" However, there does come a point at which a population on the planet large enough would become unsustainable. Food resources aren't infinite, and it takes a lot of time and money to grow food...not to mention the costs of shipping that food to other areas and the challenges of keeping it fresh while you do.

Point being we already have people with very little food with our current population. Now yes, I realize, reducing the population in America isn't going to magically transport food to third world countries. As well, usually the reasons for food shortages and famine are due to political or social climate, rather than a real lack of food (usually it's someone in a position of power blocking food from being distributed).

Still, I think it says something that we can't even provide for the population we have now, and yet it's somehow a good idea to have even more children? Not to mention the side-effect of even more trash, which we don't know what to do with the amounts of garbage we have already! Landfills only can be so big you know, and burning garbage consumes massive amounts of energy, which is expensive.

Now, I have yet to touch on the issue of them saying "We can't have one million people filling two million jobs!" Um, have they even read a newspaper in the last YEAR? The unemployment rate is sky-high! There AREN'T any jobs! Why? Because our beloved capitalism loves to ship jobs overseas to other countries because it's cheaper than hiring workers in our own country (note: I know this is more the problem of greedy CEO's than capitalism itself, I'm just being dramatic and silly).

My point is that the number of jobs available is decreasing, or else we wouldn't have so much unemployment. Thus, having more kids would WORSEN the problem, with hundreds of thousands (or millions) of citizens being unable to find employment. In fact, that's kind of what's happened now, and part of the reason our birth rate is declining. Kids are expensive! If you're holding down a job paying 8 bucks an hour you can't afford to raise more than maybe one kid. If that.

Everyone else has touched on the other absurd and downright racist things this video says ("Muslims is EVIL! Immigrants are the devil!") so I won't touch on those except to say that I agree with everyone else that such comments are absurd and downright racist, akin to the whole "Black people will steal our white women and corrupt them!" thing the KKK has going on.

I've also heard it said many times that children are a blessing, contrary to what popculture would have us believe.

I agree that children are a blessing, but it's not a blessing for everyone. Being poor is a blessing. Oh yeah, and let's not forget, "Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds..." So should we wake up every morning and say "Man I sure hope my family dies or my house burns down or I get beaten and raped on the way to work because trials are a blessing!" Yes, they're a blessing in that they develop our faith and help us to persevere, but it's not something we should wish upon ourselves.

So what I'm saying is that children being a blessing is true, and that's great, but not everybody wants it. In fact I hate kids, I'm never going to have them, and I'm glad for it. Likewise, we need to remember that women have lives and roles too, and we shouldn't see women as mere "baby factories" and the thought of a woman literally being pregnant for most of her life just seems distasteful to me whether you think children are a blessing or not. I mean being pregnant isn't fun I'm sure, even if you love kids.

Finally as far as this "Culture wars" thing going on, "We need to have babies to keep America pure!" (I won't get further into that, too easy to draw needless comparisons), remember the only kingdom that will last eternally is God's Kingdom. America is not that kingdom, and it will fall one day, as has every empire before it. Trying to "save" it is needlessly pointless, as if it is what God has decreed shall happen, then that's that.

[Ante Bellum]

I also see a lot of scare tactics here. Chances are, some of us won't be around to see it happen and it will help strengthen the faith of others. I won't have kids, ever, especially if it's just for the purpose of fighting some cultural war. Actually, I wonder if his being Mormon might influence the "have more babies!" idea (Excuse me if I'm wrong.).
Anyways, I already see the decline of civilization. I heard the Islam belief is that world peace will come about when everyone is Muslim and the opposition is destroyed. BUT, it says elsewhere (The Bible, right?) that world peace will never happen. So, when you think about it, they won't take over the world and establish a single religion.
To me, this says that Armageddon will happen before their ideas come to be. And if I die in some religious invasion, at least I'll stay by my faith in Jesus.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

It seemed to me to be very much a propaganda piece.

[Radical Dreamer]

Honestly, I'm kind of disgusted by this video. Demonizing the Islamic population isn't going to do anything but stir up further trouble, and it's certainly not going to encourage Christlike behavior towards these people (yes, they are humans, too!). The video itself is poorly created and makes some HUGE assumptions, but beyond that, I'd say it's nearly encouraging prejudice, and as followers of Christ, that shouldn't even be on our minds.

As a side note, thank you all for not taking this into theological or political territory. I assume this civil discussion will continue without much trouble.

[Bobtheduck]

I did not watch the video. Didn't care about it specifically, but for the idea that there's no danger from growing Muslim populations, I think it is A HUGE danger, as has been happening over time in Europe. Lebanon in particular stands as a reminder of the result of this sort of thing, being at one time a mostly Christian culture that was in strong support of religious freedom. They eventually got overwhlemed by Muslims who believed the country should be run under sharia. Overrun and moved into the streets or in hiding and murdered.

I'm not suggesting (and never would suggest) violence, but it is something we need to be paying attention to. Some of the most otherwise secular European countries are implementing Koran teaching in schools as a way to placate the growing muslim population, which often grows via children due to the discrepancy in birthrate between native Europeans and the Muslim families. We shouldn't be hiding our head in the sand and pretending like it's no different than any other religion or that there won't be a negative consequence of it, which has happened a lot.

All I'm suggesting is vigilance and strategies that don't involve violence to prevent the kind of problems Lebanon had.

[ChristianKitsune]

... seriously?
Ugh I couldn't even watch the whole thing...I've never seen such a horrible video...man no wonder some people think Christians aren't nice.

Guys the islamic people are NOT our enemies.. Jesus loves them just as much as he loves us! I don't understand the point to reproducing just to beat the islamic people back.. (LAWL at Cognitive Gear's post)

[Arya Raiin]

This.

Fear of our fellow human beings is exactly what prevents us from sharing Christ's love with them and I find something very wrong with that. I think there are more important things to worry about than having more babies to save cultures that change all the time anyway.

Exactly.

[blkmage]

I did not watch the video. Didn't care about it specifically, but for the idea that there's no danger from growing Muslim populations, I think it is A HUGE danger, as has been happening over time in Europe. Lebanon in particular stands as a reminder of the result of this sort of thing, being at one time a mostly Christian culture that was in strong support of religious freedom. They eventually got overwhlemed by Muslims who believed the country should be run under sharia. Overrun and moved into the streets or in hiding and murdered.

I'm not suggesting (and never would suggest) violence, but it is something we need to be paying attention to. Some of the most otherwise secular European countries are implementing Koran teaching in schools as a way to placate the growing muslim population, which often grows via children due to the discrepancy in birthrate between native Europeans and the Muslim families. We shouldn't be hiding our head in the sand and pretending like it's no different than any other religion or that there won't be a negative consequence of it, which has happened a lot.

All I'm suggesting is vigilance and strategies that don't involve violence to prevent the kind of problems Lebanon had.

That seems like a huge oversimplification of historical, geographical, and political circumstances.

Of course it's really easy for Lebanon to get crowded out by Muslims]overrun[/I] by Muslims. For one thing, Christians are still more than a third of the population. Their government is also set up specifically to share power among each religious demographic. And for a country overrun by Muslims, they seemed to do okay in electing a pro-Western bloc to power.

And let's also not forget that there are moderates and extremists for all groups. It turns out that if you're going to move to a western democracy, you're probably not going to mind the fact that the nation isn't under Sharia law. I'd imagine that most western Muslims are very moderate who are quite happy in respecting their new country's institutions and values. How likely do you think it'll be that kids growing up in western society will turn out to be fundamentalists?

Also remember that Muslims are not the only demographic that are migrating to western democracies. There's tons of movement between these countries as well as tons of immigration from Asia.

Essentially, the fear that any one demographic will eventually overrun a country rests on a single statistic and the assumption that that demographic is hell-bent on taking over that country. In any other case, there are just too many factors that make it impossible to say that IN THE YEAR 20X6 EVERYONE IS A MUSLIM.

Now, if we're projecting over, say, the next few hundred years, then we are talking about a reasonable timeframe for this kind of shift to happen in the way that is being described. Of course, if it does happen, it'll likely happen much faster, but for vastly different reasons than birth rates.

[Nate]

but for the idea that there's no danger from growing Muslim populations, I think it is A HUGE danger, as has been happening over time in Europe.

I don't see how there's a danger unless you have the belief "Muslim = terrorist" which is just as fear-mongering and racist an attitude as "black person = criminal."

Demographics change. It's the way of life.

All I'm suggesting is vigilance and strategies that don't involve violence to prevent the kind of problems Lebanon had.

What would you suggest? Denying people immigration rights because they're Muslim wouldn't fly, as it's racist, and we can't exactly kick out native-born Americans who happen to be Muslim. Nor can we force children to give up what they believe. We can't put a limit on the number of children a married couple can have either, that would be infringing on rights.

Thus, the only thing we could do is what this video states, "Christians, have like ten babies so we can keep those nasty ol' Muslims from dominating us!" which is what all of us in this thread are arguing is silly. It's an attitude of paranoia, which isn't helpful in the least.

Besides, what strategy could we put in place that isn't there already? First Amendment prohibiting the government from establishing a national religion or doing anything that creates the appearance of having a national religion. Can't get much plainer than that.

Honestly, here's the thing. How would you feel if this video was exactly the same, but it was an atheist video saying how Christians were having lots of kids per couple, and that Christians would try and institute mandatory Bible reading in schools and prohibit people from being any other religion and that atheists had to stop them in the name of religious freedom? After all, it's not like Christians haven't done horrible things in the name of faith either (see European history), and there's plenty of prominent Christian leaders to stereotype and say "See all Christians are violent and hateful and want to take over the government and oppress non-Christians!"

Saying all Muslims are suicide bombers is like saying all Christians are like Fred Phelps. See what I'm getting at?

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Just as being born into a Christian family does not inherently make one a christian automatically

And can often times do more damage to your chances of coming to a sustainable faith. Conservatives families do more to damage people's trust in the Church than any outside group. Every Atheist I know comes from an evangelical family. Every Wicca I know comes from a Catholic family. I wish I could say that I'm lying or exaggerating, but it's true. I went to a conservative parochial school where the numbers of those who abandoned God blithely were staggering. Forcing it on your children without giving them the choice to choose is a good way to ensure they never have a functional relationship with God. Faith is something you have to Own.

[rocklobster]

And can often times do more damage to your chances of coming to a sustainable faith. Conservatives families do more to damage people's trust in the Church than any outside group. Every Atheist I know comes from an evangelical family. Every Wicca I know comes from a Catholic family. I wish I could say that I'm lying or exaggerating, but it's true. I went to a conservative parochial school where the numbers of those who abandoned God blithely were staggering. Forcing it on your children without giving them the choice to choose is a good way to ensure they never have a functional relationship with God. Faith is something you have to Own.

QFT. I was born into Christianity but was lukewarm for most of my life. I've been trying to make up for it since college.

[goldenspines]

I remember back in the day they were worried about over population of the world. Now they're worried about under population?
And then there's that whole racism/religiousism/nazi idea about keeping countries full of "purebreds" and not immigrants. o.O

The username of the guy who posted this video on youtube gives me an understanding of why it was made (not why it was show in a Christian church, though), but that's another story.

Anyways, good discussions going on in here. Thanks for keeping it that way. ^_^

[Bobtheduck]

I don't see how there's a danger unless you have the belief "Muslim = terrorist" which is just as fear-mongering and racist an attitude as "black person = criminal."

Demographics change. It's the way of life.

Saying all Muslims are suicide bombers is like saying all Christians are like Fred Phelps. See what I'm getting at?

Yeah, no. I knew I'd hear from you on this, and you've missed my point. This isn't about "Muslim = terrorist" This is about "conservative muslim = sharia law"

This isn't an issue of race, it's an issue of ideology. Many liberal Muslims in the US may be under the delusion that Islam at its core doesn't espouse the sort of beliefs that rule Muslims to some extent in Europe and in especially in the Middle East and Africa, but even in the US, the more traditional beliefs behind Jihad and Sharia are gaining momentum, particularly in prisons.

I'm not saying "suicide bomber" as there, of course, is nothing in the Koran (that I saw, anyhow... bombs didn't even exist then) about that, but a universal call to war, death sentence against conscientious objectors, and a death sentence against the "polytheists" are all very much in the Koran. I know. I've read them myself.

My basic plea is that people don't become complacent and allow sharia law to creep into our laws, and, yes, that has been happening in Europe. Not all over Europe, of course, but it's something that's happening very slowly. In the end, though, when the Islamic population is large enough, and when the more traditional Islamic beliefs are large enough, it won't be a simple matter of "Our country has freedom of religion" it will be a matter of "What can we give them to prevent violence (among the more conservative AKA "radical" muslims)

That sort of difference in treatment is already happening in the US. Textbooks are careful to treat all other religions (particularly Christianity) as "something they believe" but they use language suggesting fact when referring to Muslim history and beliefs. That is, of course, a rather small thing, but it represents something much larger.

I'm not suggesting Christians go out and make 200 babies a piece to "combat this" (partly because about 195 of them wouldn't likely be Christians when they grew up anyhow... but I digress) but rather that we don't treat it like a non issue.

That seems like a huge oversimplification of historical, geographical, and political circumstances.

Of course I don't know everything that went into what happened in Lebanon. Just like I don't know everything that's happened in the American political arena. Even less than that, of course, as it's not my nation.

Of course it's really easy for Lebanon to get crowded out by Muslims]

And the previously much more secular, "separation-of-church-and-state" Lebanon was quite welcoming to them. But extremist, or rather Conservative Muslims rose up and there was a lot of death and destruction it their wake.

Also, I'm pretty sure Lebanon isn't overrun by Muslims. For one thing, Christians are still more than a third of the population. Their government is also set up specifically to share power among each religious demographic. And for a country overrun by Muslims, they seemed to do okay in electing a pro-Western bloc to power.

Eh, I don't quite feel the whole "shared power" thing. Not after so many of the horror stories I've heard.

And let's also not forget that there are moderates and extremists for all groups. It turns out that if you're going to move to a western democracy, you're probably not going to mind the fact that the nation isn't under Sharia law.

There are moderates and extremists in every group. That is true. The difference is that Islam has conquering and violence built into it. If you want perspective: Israel wanted a strip of land smaller than most US states. Islam wants basically the whole world. If I have to, I'll go back to the Koran and bring up over 30 instances I had read about this. The only action that is extremism among them is suicide bombing, I believe. While the Koran does support martyrdom, I didn't see anything suggesting martyrdom could be suicidal. I could be wrong, of course. The Koran is a VERY LARGE BOOK... I plan to give it a more thorough reading later, rather than a keyword scan and close context reading.

Many conservative muslims move to western democratic nations because they have to. They may actually despise the governmental system of the nation they're in, and Sharia law is sought by A LOT of them, because that is the system the Koran dictates.

I'd imagine that most western Muslims are very moderate who are quite happy in respecting their new country's institutions and values. How likely do you think it'll be that kids growing up in western society will turn out to be fundamentalists?

I think for Christians who have given their education and worldview teaching over so much to the government of countries like the US, Canada, and many European countries, it's hard to imagine a household where the parents' worldview holds so much more of an authority on their Children, but it is true, nonetheless. By and large, Conservative Muslims do a better job of communicating and instilling their values to their children than do most western Christians.

Also remember that Muslims are not the only demographic that are migrating to western democracies. There's tons of movement between these countries as well as tons of immigration from Asia.

Of course. I will say that the sometimes dangerous ideologies under some other religions (Caste system in Hinduism, for instance) don't translate as well into western Cultures as those who want Sharia law, however.

Essentially, the fear that any one demographic will eventually overrun a country rests on a single statistic and the assumption that that demographic is hell-bent on taking over that country. In any other case, there are just too many factors that make it impossible to say that IN THE YEAR 20X6 EVERYONE IS A MUSLIM.

Well, this is likely more a response to that video than to me, I'd assume, because I never once said everyone or most people will be Muslim. I said a growing Muslim, particularly a growing conservative Muslim population is a concern.

Now, if we're projecting over, say, the next few hundred years, then we are talking about a reasonable timeframe for this kind of shift to happen in the way that is being described. Of course, if it does happen, it'll likely happen much faster, but for vastly different reasons than birth rates.

Again, I don't really care about birthrates among Muslims. If anything, larger families will diminish the effects somewhat, because it's much harder to exert control over a larger number of children.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I remember back in the day they were worried about over population of the world. Now they're worried about under population?
And then there's that whole racism/religiousism/nazi idea about keeping countries full of "purebreds" and not immigrants. o.O

The username of the guy who posted this video on youtube gives me an understanding of why it was made (not why it was show in a Christian church, though), but that's another story.

Anyways, good discussions going on in here. Thanks for keeping it that way. ^_^

I actually talked to a guy who while trying to defend that he was not a racist espoused the idea that purity of the races is a good thing for all the races involved.

Oh internet...

[ShiroiHikari]

First it was overpopulation; now it's underpopulation. Whatever. I'm sick of all the fearmongering. You'd think that a little population decrease would be a good thing, especially in very crowded places like Japan.

[Cognitive Gear]

I'm not saying "suicide bomber" as there, of course, is nothing in the Koran (that I saw, anyhow... bombs didn't even exist then) about that, but a universal call to war, death sentence against conscientious objectors, and a death sentence against the "polytheists" are all very much in the Koran. I know. I've read them myself.

Yes, and the Bible advocates the death sentence for adultery, prostitution and kidnapping, amongst other things. It even has a few instances of God-mandated genocide.

I'm not saying that it's exactly the same, just that we need to be careful about double standards. If we are going to treat "conservative" Islam one way, then we should be treating "conservative" Christianity and Judaism the same way.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I actually talked to a guy who while trying to defend that he was not a racist espoused the idea that purity of the races is a good thing for all the races involved.

Oh internet...

Different population groups have different opinions as to what "racism" means. Some see racism as more of an individual problem, whereas others see racism as more of an institutional/systematized problem.

Granted I believe both are true. XD

[Cognitive Gear]

First it was overpopulation]Whatever.[/i] I'm sick of all the fearmongering. You'd think that a little population decrease would be a good thing, especially in very crowded places like Japan.

So true. The fearmongering really is out of hand, and unfortunately a lot of it has had a "Christian" face stapled onto it. The world is a scary enough place without people adding to it.

I agree with you second point as well, places like Japan (and soon, India) could use a natural population decrease.

[Bobtheduck]

Yes, and the Bible advocates the death sentence for adultery, prostitution and kidnapping, amongst other things. It even has a few instances of God-mandated genocide.

I'm not saying that it's exactly the same, just that we need to be careful about double standards. If we are going to treat "conservative" Islam one way, then we should be treating "conservative" Christianity and Judaism the same way.

I have 1001 and one things to say about all of that, but I suppose that would be venturing into Theological debate, and I'll bow out here. I've said my piece and possibly more than was necessary on CAA, so I'll keep my mouth closed now. (thank you idiomatic errors list, now I know)

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Different population groups have different opinions as to what "racism" means. Some see racism as more of an individual problem, whereas others see racism as more of an institutional/systematized problem.

Granted I believe both are true. XD

His comments on "pure breeding" people were not the origin of our accusations against him. It had more to do with blithley adhereing to racial stereotypes and slurs when casually talking about anyone that was not white. His comments on racial purity were the facepalm ontop of the cake.

I politely left a comment about the intelligence quotient of purebred cockerspaniels and left the conversation.