Man Arrested For Kissing His Daughter

[SnoringFrog]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8240989.stm

I find this ridiculous. The point of that law makes sense and all, but this is definitely taking it too far. There has to be some sort of point where you draw a line before you end up with more laws like this that end up being abused/twisted to punish innocent people like this. But seeing as how I have no daughters and this was in Brazil, I don't think I have anything to really worry/complain about at all.

[K. Ayato]

Should this even be in here?

[The Banner]

I believe the news article says something about the couple claiming that the man touching the daughter inappropriately. The news article didn't seem to clarify what kind of a kiss- was it a kiss on the cheek, or was it one of those French kisses?

I don't know whether to call it ridiculous yet. On one hand, I need clarification on how the father touched his daughter inappropriately- on the other hand, it doesn't seem to be such a big thing because the article seems to talk about the kissing more than it does the touching.

[K. Ayato]

Article says it was full on the mouth...

[BubblegumNinja]

*shrugs* Honestly it depends. I've seen parents peck their kids on the mouth and it was never in a suggestive or sexual way. And touching inappropriately could be anything from having her sit on his lap to cuddling her. Certainly for a much older man who appears unrelated to a young girl, that would be bad. And the couple who reported it seemed unaware that she was his daughter.

Parents are discouraged enough as it is to be physically affectionaite with their children, especially fathers. I think it's really sad... This sort of thing is only going to make it worse. I mean, I can understand why the laws were put in place, but at the same time... it just feels like the role of the father is being made redundant in the view of modern society. Dads have to be so careful these days...

[Nate]

And yet if it had been a woman doing the exact same thing with a young boy, nobody would have even thought twice about it.

Nice double standards, society. :|

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

So true, so true. The double standards society has in this regards really make my blood boil.

[Bobtheduck]

While I can't say if he WAS doing anything inappropriate (the people who reported him said something about "intimate touch") if the crux of this is based on a kiss... That is perfectly appropriate, for parents to kiss their children. On the lips, even. If it had been a french kiss, well, yeah that would be inappropriate, but...

No clue about brazil, but I know about child abuse obsessed US culture, and there are people that report the simplest things as abuse... It wouldn't surprise me to see someone reporting a kiss like this as abuse in the US.

[Nate]

How would someone know if it was a French kiss anyway?

And so what if he kissed her on the lips? That's fine. If it was a quick one. I mean if he's locking lips with his daughter for more than a second, then that's pretty suspicious, but I mean, I didn't see what happened, so I dunno.

"Intimate touch" is also pretty dodgy language, what does that even mean?

Meh, whatever, times like this I'm glad I'm never going to have kids.

[The Banner]

Looks like I did miss the "on the mouth" part of the kiss.

I'm still trying not to make conclusions about what happened, though. It feels as if that man actually didn't touch his daughter as inappropriately as I would think when hearing that word, and that's slightly unsettling for me.

I won't be having kids either. Ah, the joys of abstinence and lack of romantic attention.

[Nate]

I'm not abstinent by choice though. D: But even if I did get a wife I still wouldn't want kids. >.> And if some sort of accident happened and a kid did somehow get made, well, all I can say is, I would hope to God it was a boy. Girls just seem way too difficult to deal with in certain respects.

[EricTheFred]

I'm thinking if Brazil has human trafficking and sex tourism issues similar to my wife's country, then this whole thing can be understood very quickly.

Note that in the story they point out multiple times that the people lodging the complaint 'did not apparently know that the girl was his daughter.'

They saw a white skinned man kissing a extremely underaged dark skinned girl on the mouth. Frankly, if I were at a resort in the Philippines and saw this, I would have been apt to assume the same things. If you guys knew exactly how many children are stolen from their families and forced into this kind of work in the poor parts of tropical countries, you might do the same. The numbers are positively sickening.

[Tsukuyomi]

And yet if it had been a woman doing the exact same thing with a young boy, nobody would have even thought twice about it.

Nice double standards, society. :|

But Nate, double standards is what makes the world go round (there's plenty in this world) ~(O_O)~

I once saw in a Disney movie a dad doing that to his daughter >_> It was weird o.o;; I was like,"... Are fathers supposed to kiss their 9yr. old daughters like that x__x?"

It wasn't a peck on the lips.. It was a deep passionate, intimate looking kisses (head tilt and all of that) XDDD;

Mayhaps, nothing of that sort was intended, but it definitely do a double take, and it would if I saw a mom kiss her son that way too x_X

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I think we don't know enough about what happened to cast judgement. That's all I think.

[Tsukuyomi]

I think we don't know enough about what happened to cast judgement. That's all I think.

There's alot of cultural stuff to consider, so this thinking may be the best ^^

I just meant it was just kinda weird seeing that on an original Disney movie xDD

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Oh, don't worry, Lucky. I wasn't aiming that at you. I was just tossing that at the original topic at large.

[SnoringFrog]

Parents are discouraged enough as it is to be physically affectionaite with their children, especially fathers. I think it's really sad... This sort of thing is only going to make it worse. I mean, I can understand why the laws were put in place, but at the same time... it just feels like the role of the father is being made redundant in the view of modern society. Dads have to be so careful these days...

Yeah, I definitely agree with you here. In my opinion, fathers should be affectionate with their daughters (although, I completely agree with all those that mentioned overly passionate kissing, I do think that's a little odd, at the very least, and most of the time is inappropriate), but as overuse of child-abuse and thinks like that seems to continue to grow, it becomes more and more difficult for that to happen.

And yet if it had been a woman doing the exact same thing with a young boy, nobody would have even thought twice about it.

Nice double standards, society. :|

Agreed.

Frankly, if I were at a resort in the Philippines and saw this, I would have been apt to assume the same things. If you guys knew exactly how many children are stolen from their families and forced into this kind of work in the poor parts of tropical countries, you might do the same. The numbers are positively sickening.

I understand what you mean here, Eric. As the article mentioned, it's definitely a problem over there, which is why the law had to be put in place. I don't really blame the people who reported him; I can easily believe that it was an honest mistake on their part. What gets me is the fact that despite being able to prove that she's his daughter (along with his wife's testimony of the same fact and various witnesses that say he did nothing wrong), that he is still in custody. The reporting couple's and the Brazilian government's actions and caution are understandable and appreciated (to a point on the government side), but I think the man should have been released once the misunderstanding was revealed.

[Yamamaya]

[quote="Tsukuyomi (post: 1344572)"]But Nate, double standards is what makes the world go round (there's plenty in this world) ~(O_O)~

I once saw in a Disney movie a dad doing that to his daughter >_> It was weird o.o]

Umm I think that dad was probably a pedobear. Regular dads don't have initimate kisses with their daughters.

I can also understand why the people reacted the way they did. If I saw that, I would probably report it as well.

[goldenspines]

Umm I think that dad was probably a pedobear. Regular dads don't have initimate kisses with their daughters.

I can also understand why the people reacted the way they did. If I saw that, I would probably report it as well.

Please remember that all cultures view "regular" quite differently. What Americans might think is illegal, may be normal for another country (or vice versa).
I don't know all the customs of Brazil, but I know they are different from America to some extent. Though, I recall Italy (which is where this man is from) tends to be more "intimate" in their interactions than most other countries (someone who knows more can correct me on this if I'm wrong, though).
So the questiong comes down to, should we change our customs and lifestyle just because we are visiting a different country?

I presume the couple who reported the father in question was because he did not look like the girl's father, and thus, could be a kidnapper/pedophile. In reality, they were doing what they were suppose to in that type of situation (because he could have been what they thought). It's the authorites which are causing problems now and not releasing him even though the truth has been told to them.

[Nate]

I still, for the life of me, cannot and will not ever understand the people in this thread saying "Yeah, I totally understand that law! Yeah, I totally would have reported it too!" All you're doing is reinforcing the negative thoughts that fathers should not show affection to their daughters.

I mean seriously, we've gotten to the point where I read a news article about a man who was detained at an airport for eating a meal with his 8 year old daughter. Is it any wonder fathers these days would rather sit on the couch and watch TV than spend time with their own children? When there is the fear that they will be questioned by police or looked upon with suspicion by total strangers, who can blame them? It's not worth the hassle of being a father when you're worried that people will call the cops on you just for holding your little girl's hand.

Cultures are different. I don't know how the father kissed his daughter in this story, but so what if it was unusual? When I went to Italy, two men would walk down the street holding hands. They weren't gay. It's just the culture. In America two men would NEVER hold hands going anywhere because everyone would think they were a gay couple. In Italy, it's not a big deal.

And so what if they didn't look alike? So what, mixed race marriages don't happen? Couples don't adopt children of a different race?

Sorry, maybe I'm just sensitive about this issue. I'm sensitive because when I was a little kid, my dad was out somewhere with my brother. My brother was misbehaving and my dad gave him a swat on the rear-end. Some total stranger saw it and called child services on my dad for abuse and we almost got taken away from my parents. So you'll excuse me if I'm a little bitter when I hear about a total stranger seeing something that's honestly none of their business calling the authorities.

But whatever. I guess I'm in the minority, right? All I will say is once again, I'm GLAD I'm never going to be a father, because I can't stand the thought of having to bring up a child in a world where total strangers won't mind their own business.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I stick by my statement. We don't know WHAT the situation was, so judging it based on a few pieces of text is presumptuous. Nor, frankly, is it any of our business. We weren't the ones effected, nor will our outrage help or hinder that father.

[SnoringFrog]

Well, I can now see why you have the stance you do, Nate. I think what most of us that are agreeing with reporting it are saying is that, because it's a known problem in that area, it's less...I don't know, wrong? It almost seems to fall into a "better safe than sorry" situation, but again, the fact that the father was kept in custody after it's been pretty obviously shown to have been a misunderstanding is where it becomes wrong. In your situation, I can't say that what that stranger did makes much sense. Unlike the situation from the article, I don't think child abuse was a rampant problem in that area, and I wouldn't see an action like that as being as easy to misinterpret either.

In this world the line between minding your own business and reporting something that's truly wrong is getting more and more blurred, which is sad, really. As Nate pointed out, in our attempts to "protect" we are essentially breaking down the family structure and robbing the father of his duty.

I presume the couple who reported the father in question was because he did not look like the girl's father, and thus, could be a kidnapper/pedophile. In reality, they were doing what they were suppose to in that type of situation (because he could have been what they thought). It's the authorites which are causing problems now and not releasing him even though the truth has been told to them.

This is basically what I'm trying to say. Perhaps the people who reported it should have tried to find out more before reporting it, perhaps not. In either case, it's the authority who is the current issue.

And so what if they didn't look alike? So what, mixed race marriages don't happen? Couples don't adopt children of a different race?

I would guess (note: guess. I really don't know here) that the majority of cases don't involved mixed race marriages/adoptions. Because of that and the aforementioned problem in that specific region with pedophilia, it was reported. If you remove the pedophilia problem from the equation, then I would almost entirely agree with you in saying that the people who reported it should have minded their own business.

[Nate]

I stick by my statement. We don't know WHAT the situation was, so judging it based on a few pieces of text is presumptuous.

I do agree we don't know what the situation was, but here's my take on it.

The man was in a public place. Not only that, a public place with a lot of people in it who could see him. It might be different if they were in the secluded corner of a hallway (which would still be a public place, but not as visible), but he was in a place where he could be seen by countless people.

If he was truly a pedophile or a child sex-trafficker, would he be doing this so flagrantly in full view of people? That'd be akin to me standing in front of a bank and shouting loudly "BOY THIS SURE IS A GREAT DAY TO ROB A BANK, I MEAN, I'M GLAD I HAVE MY GUN ON ME BECAUSE I'M CERTAINLY GOING TO NEED IT IF I ROB THIS BANK, YES SIR."

If this guy was truly a child molester, wouldn't he be doing this kind of stuff AWAY from the public? Sorry, but the fact that he was doing it in a public place indicates to me that it certainly couldn't have been that bad.

And if we don't know the details of the article, then so what? Why is this even posted? There are only two possible scenarios here: one, this guy did nothing wrong, nobody should have reported it, and so this law is stupid and everyone shouldn't be so dang nosy. Two, this guy was molesting his own daughter, and deserves to be in jail, so he's a disgusting pervert who deserves to be imprisoned so why even bother talking about him?

Sorry, I just can't accept the logic of "Well this is a problem in this area so it's perfectly okay for people to report this" any more than I could accept the logic of "Well minorities commit a lot of crimes so it's perfectly okay to think blacks are criminals."

This was wrong for people to report, wrong for the authorities to arrest, and wrong for this law to exist. Nothing, absolutely nothing any person can say would convince me that that new law in Brazil is a good thing.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

I cannot believe anyone would say that a father should not be able to be affectionate to his own daughter so we can "Protect the childrens."

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Not that I'm taking sides but I'm with Nate. The least the people who witnessed it could do is find out from the dad and his daughter what the deal was. Like Nate said, a public place is not friendly for a paedophile to peddle his wares.
People assume far too much. As we can see, reporting something without investigating it further can sometimes make things worse.

[SnoringFrog]

If he was truly a pedophile or a child sex-trafficker, would he be doing this so flagrantly in full view of people? That'd be akin to me standing in front of a bank and shouting loudly "BOY THIS SURE IS A GREAT DAY TO ROB A BANK, I MEAN, I'M GLAD I HAVE MY GUN ON ME BECAUSE I'M CERTAINLY GOING TO NEED IT IF I ROB THIS BANK, YES SIR."

I hadn't considered that at all. That does make the action of reporting it make a lot less sense.

[goldenspines]

The man was in a public place. Not only that, a public place with a lot of people in it who could see him. It might be different if they were in the secluded corner of a hallway (which would still be a public place, but not as visible), but he was in a place where he could be seen by countless people.

If he was truly a pedophile or a child sex-trafficker, would he be doing this so flagrantly in full view of people? That'd be akin to me standing in front of a bank and shouting loudly "BOY THIS SURE IS A GREAT DAY TO ROB A BANK, I MEAN, I'M GLAD I HAVE MY GUN ON ME BECAUSE I'M CERTAINLY GOING TO NEED IT IF I ROB THIS BANK, YES SIR."

If this guy was truly a child molester, wouldn't he be doing this kind of stuff AWAY from the public? Sorry, but the fact that he was doing it in a public place indicates to me that it certainly couldn't have been that bad.

Ah, thank you for pointing this out. I realized this small error in my logic after I read your first post after my own.
It would make more sense for someone to report this man if he has been kissing an underage girl in a dark alleyway(for example), not at a resort in the daylight (which is what they did, I presume).

Maybe we're all too paranoid. O_O XDD;

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

It's going to be hard enough for me to be a male teacher in this world, let alone (eventually) a dad. I hate society sometimes.

[ShiroiHikari]

I could call the police on my neighbors every time I hear their kids screaming and crying, but I don't know why those kids are screaming and crying. It could mean that they're just spoiled brats. Sometimes it's better not to get involved in other people's business because you don't know all the details.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

If he was truly a pedophile or a child sex-trafficker, would he be doing this so flagrantly in full view of people? That'd be akin to me standing in front of a bank and shouting loudly "BOY THIS SURE IS A GREAT DAY TO ROB A BANK, I MEAN, I'M GLAD I HAVE MY GUN ON ME BECAUSE I'M CERTAINLY GOING TO NEED IT IF I ROB THIS BANK, YES SIR."

If this guy was truly a child molester, wouldn't he be doing this kind of stuff AWAY from the public? Sorry, but the fact that he was doing it in a public place indicates to me that it certainly couldn't have been that bad.

At the end of the day, I think you and I ultimately agree on most points. I've just taken the route I'm taking inthe discussion to point out a more measured approach to the instant revulsion against the man being expressed in this thread. If we sit down and look at the facts of the situation instead of jumping to conclusions, I don't know that we reasonably have enough to make a judgement one way or the other to be perfectly honest. And besides which, it's not for us to judge - it's for their judicial system and God.

And if we don't know the details of the article, then so what? Why is this even posted? There are only two possible scenarios here: one, this guy did nothing wrong, nobody should have reported it, and so this law is stupid and everyone shouldn't be so dang nosy. Two, this guy was molesting his own daughter, and deserves to be in jail, so he's a disgusting pervert who deserves to be imprisoned so why even bother talking about him?

Just emphasizing the area where we most definitely mesh. I get your logic, and I do absolutely agree with you, but I'm not sure we even know how public it was exactly. Yes, it was in a park, but assuming he was one of those guys (Can't spell Dynasty without Nasty) he might have thought he was secluded. On the other hand, it could have been way out in the public as you said, and he could have been doing nothing to cross any lines.

My cousin has an expression she's fond of. "When you hear hooves, don't look for zebras." In all likelyhood, this guy wasn't doing anything. It is, as you said, just as absurd to say that he was crossing boundaries because of the rates of that sort of thing in that geographical region, as it is to assume that a minority is commiting a crime because of trumped up statistics.

[Yamamaya]

Well it's a little different when its a passionate kiss since those tend to be reserved for love partners.

And yes I agree that we live in a time of paranoia, but with all of the stories regarding pedophiles, it's natural for people to become a little warry.
I also don't want kids btw.