Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince

[Cognitive Gear]

I can hardly believe that there wasn't already a thread for this. Anyways, I'm heading to a midnight showing of this tonight, and I know there are at least a few other CAA-ites out there who are as well.

The trailer looks really great, even if it is almost entirely footage from the last few chapters of the book.

[Kkun]

I'm going to the midnight showing here. I think it's going to be fantastic. The last couple of books make everything Rowling tried to accomplish in the first five feel more urgent. I think the film translation of this will do the same.

[Radical Dreamer]

Going to see it at midnight! I'm so stoked. I can't wait to see how they interpret some of the things in the book on screen. XD

[shade of dae]

Bought the tickets this afternoon, and Ich1990 and I are going to the midnight premier. I was kind of put off by the PG rating, but after seeing that trailer, I'm really excited.

[christianfriend]

I'm going too!! I got my tickets 2 weeks ago, and even then they were almost sold out o.o so there's going to be TONS of people there. But it's Harry Potter, so it's expected X3

[goldenspines]

Bought the tickets this afternoon, and Ich1990 and I are going to the midnight premier. I was kind of put off by the PG rating, but after seeing that trailer, I'm really excited.

Put off by the PG rating? Since most of the other HP movies were rated PG-13, I was happy to see the rating drop.

After seeing the trailer many times, I'm very excited for this. I'm not sure when I'll be able to go see it though. ^_^

[Radical Dreamer]

Put off by the PG rating? Since most of the other HP movies were rated PG-13, I was happy to see the rating drop.

After seeing the trailer many times, I'm very excited for this. I'm not sure when I'll be able to go see it though. ^_^

I think it's more based on the idea that, if it's not rated PG-13, there's speculation that some of the story has been compromised (because some pretty intense things happen in the book, since the plot darkens and matures with the audience). Though to be honest, there's not a lot of "bad" content in the other movies. Just intense scenes. XD I'm really just hoping they appealed for the PG rating or something, and it stays as true to the book as it can. XD

[shade of dae]

Exactly. The fourth and fifth books were much less intense/violent/dark than the sixth book. The fourth and fifth movies got a PG-13, so the sixth, if it follows the book fairly close, it should get a PG-13 as well. It didn't, so that means they probably cut one of the cooler parts of the book out of the movie.

Couple that with the director's statement (loosely paraphrased) that this sixth movie would be more lighthearted and focus on relationships and, well, I am sure you can understand my uneasiness.

[goldenspines]

Exactly. The fourth and fifth books were much less intense/violent/dark than the sixth book. The fourth and fifth movies got a PG-13, so the sixth, if it follows the book fairly close, it should get a PG-13 as well. It didn't, so that means they probably cut one of the cooler parts of the book out of the movie.

Couple that with the director's statement (loosely paraphrased) that this sixth movie would be more lighthearted and focus on relationships and, well, I am sure you can understand my uneasiness.

Ah, I see what you mean. Sorry I misunderstood. ^_^;
I did wonder about that myself actually, but so far they seem to be following the books rather closely; they should do so as well on this one, I would hope.

Hah, lighthearted. That's not what the trailer looked like. XD

[minakichan]

I haven't seen a Harry Potter movie in ages but I might be going with some friends <s>so we can see what the movie theater experience is like in Taipei!</s>

Someone tell me if it's good~ =w=

[ich1990]

Just got back. Let me see if I can coherently write this at 3:00 am.

Pros:
By far the darkest film. Any hope or "lightheartedness" is all but engulfed in the oppressive atmosphere. This seems to be another case of bribing the movie ratings board. I thought it more than earned a PG-13. Additionally, Snape got a fair amount of screen time, which is always good. The new pensieve was also a highlight. Music is, as usual, excellent. My favorite is the second credits' song. Finally, the lighting, color tone, editing, and other cinemagraphic details were superb. The movie looked just plain fantastic.

Cons:
One of the slowest movies in the entire series. If you watch the trailer in the OP you will have seen pretty much all of the action in the entire movie. The battle in the final portions of the book is gone, so no epic fight at the end. Outside of the few moments of urgency, the main focus of The Half-Blood Prince is setting up for the next two movies and getting the main characters paired up with their appropriate love interests. The latter is pretty painful to watch (although there are attempts to make it humorous which occasionally succeed [I.E. Hermione's birds]). Personally, I would have liked to have seen less "snogging" and relational troubles and more memories from the pensieve.

Overall it is still way better than the book.

[shade of dae]

Probably my favorite of the movies so far. The cinematography was awesome, and, with the music, effectively set the tone throughout the movie very well. The plot followed along with the book as far as I can remember, covering all the major areas. However, I wish they wouldn't put so many Hermoine vs. Lavender scenes, but they were handled better than the Harry and Ginny scenes, which were downright painful. However, the action scenes were intense, and the lake with the Inferi made me jump even though I was expecting it. With as dark as the movie was, though, it deserved a PG-13 rating, even though it had very little of what would usually classify as objectionable content.

Overall, quite an enjoyable movie.

[Radical Dreamer]

Just got back a few minutes ago. Absolutely fantastic movie. XD

[SPOILER]In spite of the differences from the book (as in, the removal of the Dursleys and also Rufus Scrimgeour, not to mention the lack of apparition lessons), I thought this was the best Harry Potter movie to date. The casting was really excellent and the acting was spectacular--it's clear that all of the actors involved have really (literally) grown into their parts over the years, and it shows. I especially loved the scenes in the Pensieve. They were nearly word-for-word as I remembered them in the book, and I thought that was fantastic. XD

As for the relationships in the movie, I actually wasn't bothered by them at all. The focus was not too strong, as I was afraid it would be; after all, much of the book takes place around these relationships, and everything that happened regarding said relationships does take place in the books. I actually found that the "relationship" scenes were some of the funniest parts, not including Harry's adventures with Felix. XD

That being said, I really loved how the whole "teenagery drama" bit was handled. At least twice during the movie, it's made pretty clear that, while his classmates are all enjoying "new love," Draco is in a far darker (and more plot-important) world: once while Ron and Lavender are "snogging" (lol) in a tower, and once while Draco is leaving to kill Dumbledore. I really thought the subtle way these scenes were played out via cameras panning or something similar was a very effective method of showing the contrast between the lives of average Hogwarts students (oxymoron? XD) and the task of Draco as a Death Eater.[/SPOILER]

One of the slowest movies in the entire series. If you watch the trailer in the OP you will have seen pretty much all of the action in the entire movie. The battle in the final portions of the book is gone, so no epic fight at the end. Outside of the few moments of urgency, the main focus of The Half-Blood Prince is setting up for the next two movies and getting the main characters paired up with their appropriate love interests. The latter is pretty painful to watch (although there are attempts to make it humorous which occasionally succeed [I.E. Hermione's birds]). Personally, I would have liked to have seen less "snogging" and relational troubles and more memories from the pensieve.

Overall it is still way better than the book.

[SPOILER]I have to disagree with almost all of this, actually (though yes, Hermione's birds WERE well done XD). I didn't find the movie slow at all--perhaps long, but only because there was so much to tell. It's true that they left out Lupin, Tonks, Ginny, etc. fighting the Death Eaters in the towers, but really, I thought that part of the book made Dumbledore's death a bit anti-climactic, especially for the film's purposes. I think that may be why they added in the scene at the Weasley's, with Bellatrix and Fenrir. Even so, I wasn't disappointed to see less action as long as it was replaced with more character development, which it absolutely was, and I think that's what the movies before this have lacked (sans the first two). Admittedly, I'd have liked to see Marvolo and his family, but in the interest of keeping the movie under four hours long, I'm not disappointed that they dropped it.

The only part I AM slightly disappointed about is how Harry comes to hide the Half-Blood Prince's potion book. I wish there had been a little more conflict with Harry and Snape, Snape using Legillimens, telling Harry to bring him his textbook, and Harry having to run off and find a place to hide it more urgently. But honestly, I think the movie did a fantastic job fitting in everything it could from the book in a reasonable time frame]

[Cognitive Gear]

This movie is so awesome. I loved it. That is all until the morning.

[Kkun]

It was definitely my favorite of the movies, but I'm too tired to write a coherent thought right now. I'll say more later tonight after I get back from work.

[ich1990]

Just got back a few minutes ago. Absolutely fantastic movie. XD

[SPOILER]I have to disagree with almost all of this, actually (though yes, Hermione's birds WERE well done XD). I didn't find the movie slow at all--perhaps long, but only because there was so much to tell. It's true that they left out Lupin, Tonks, Ginny, etc. fighting the Death Eaters in the towers, but really, I thought that part of the book made Dumbledore's death a bit anti-climactic, especially for the film's purposes. I think that may be why they added in the scene at the Weasley's, with Bellatrix and Fenrir. Even so, I wasn't disappointed to see less action as long as it was replaced with more character development, which it absolutely was, and I think that's what the movies before this have lacked (sans the first two). Admittedly, I'd have liked to see Marvolo and his family, but in the interest of keeping the movie under four hours long, I'm not disappointed that they dropped it.

The only part I AM slightly disappointed about is how Harry comes to hide the Half-Blood Prince's potion book. I wish there had been a little more conflict with Harry and Snape, Snape using Legillimens, telling Harry to bring him his textbook, and Harry having to run off and find a place to hide it more urgently. But honestly, I think the movie did a fantastic job fitting in everything it could from the book in a reasonable time frame]

[spoiler]Perhaps further elucidation is in order.

I admit that virtually all the teen romance portions were also in the book, but those were the portions that made me dislike the book in the first place. People are fighting Voldemort, dying, there are assassination plots, and yet what are the students concerned with? "Snogging".

The Ron and Lavender thing was ok, because it was supposed to be funny, but don't tell me I am the only one who was disturbed by Ginny and Harry. Between the let me feed you, tie your shoelaces for your, and attack you when your eyes are closed, I thought it was too much.

The reason the movie did this better than the book is because the film got a lot of mileage out of the romance scenes. Like you said, it was helped to contrast with Draco, and helped develop him into an actual character (instead of just 'that bully' who we are supposed to always hate by default). He didn't even have to "snog" anyone to get that character development, that is quality film making right there.

As far as slow is concerned, I guess that was just my faulty expectations. The book is really long, and it looked from the trailer that a lot of the relational issues are dropped for emphasis on the Horcrux in the cave, Dumbledore's death, etc. While those parts were done well, there were long spaces in between were not a lot happens. Of course, there were in the other movies as well... Maybe my sense of pacing is inaccurate at three in the morning. I will have to see it again.

I would actually have to read the sixth book again to decide if it is truly worse than the movie. I read the Harry Potter books years ago and have had too many other good books on my list to go back and reread. The third and sixth books are my favorite, so the sixth one just might be better than the movie, although as far as memory serves I don't think it is.

As a whole, however, I was unpleased with the 5th-7th books. They were way too bloated and focussed on development of side plots at the expense of the main. That is why she had to pack so much in the last book, thereby making last four (five?) horcruxes seem pathetically weak compared to the first few. Also, many important characters died so casually in the last book that I didn't even realize they were dead until my sister pointed them out. I am fine with understating character deaths, but this was done too casually for even my tastes.

As time has gone on and the movies have continued to be fantastic (and have continued to mostly avoid the horrible teen angst that is displayed by many characters in the books), I have eventually just started generallizing my statements as "the movies are better than the books". It is not something that I say lightly, but in the case of Harry Potter, I think it is generally justified.[/spoiler]

[sharien chan]

I absolutely loved it. Definitely the darkest one yet. But it was awesome...and a little slow but I liked how it was handled.

[Radical Dreamer]

[spoiler]I admit that virtually all the teen romance portions were also in the book, but those were the portions that made me dislike the book in the first place. People are fighting Voldemort, dying, there are assassination plots, and yet what are the students concerned with? "Snogging".[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]Yeah, I can understand it getting frustrating if that sort of thing isn't your cup of tea, and it isn't necessarily mine either. However, J.K. Rowling wrote the characters to be believable (not to mention highly relatable) teenagers who not only have to fight the most dangerous dark wizard in history, but also have to deal with hormones and girlfriends and boyfriends and jealousy. It really makes the characters that much more round and realistic than if they were to be stagnantly unaware of the fact that other genders do, indeed, exist at their age. XD[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]The reason the movie did this better than the book is because the film got a lot of mileage out of the romance scenes. Like you said, it was helped to contrast with Draco, and helped develop him into an actual character (instead of just 'that bully' who we are supposed to always hate by default). He didn't even have to "snog" anyone to get that character development, that is quality film making right there.[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]I do agree here that Draco was far more fleshed out in the movie, simply because we could watch him and understand his emotions more easily. In the book, due to the limited third-person narrative, we only see Draco through Harry's eyes (and occasionally through Narcissa's), which makes it more difficult for the reader to understand his inner conflicts until he actually voices them. Seeing Malfoy brood and wring his anxious hands on screen was definitely powerful, and it made him a much more complex character much earlier on in the movie than in the book.[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]I would actually have to read the sixth book again to decide if it is truly worse than the movie. I read the Harry Potter books years ago and have had too many other good books on my list to go back and reread. The third and sixth books are my favorite, so the sixth one just might be better than the movie, although as far as memory serves I don't think it is.[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]Perhaps it's just a personal rule of mine, but I rarely regard any movie as "better than the book" (exceptions to that rule being The Prestige and maybe a handful of others), especially when it comes to Harry Potter. The Potter books take us so much deeper inside Harry's head than the movies are often able, and given the length of the books, the movies have a reputation of leaving out important side-plots and other characters, not to mention the characters who do turn up often lose some of their development. The lack of Dobby in every film but the second is a prime example of this, not to mention the absence of Ludo Bagman, Winky, Mundungus Fletcher, and most recently, Rufus Scrimgeour.[/spoiler]

[SPOILER]As a whole, however, I was unpleased with the 5th-7th books. They were way too bloated and focussed on development of side plots at the expense of the main. That is why she had to pack so much in the last book, thereby making last four (five?) horcruxes seem pathetically weak compared to the first few. Also, many important characters died so casually in the last book that I didn't even realize they were dead until my sister pointed them out. I am fine with understating character deaths, but this was done too casually for even my tastes.[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]This is mostly a matter of opinion (especially since the fifth is my favorite book in the series XD), but I didn't find the side plots to be cumbersome at all, as they provided deeper insights into each of the characters. Then again, I prefer stories that have characters I feel like I really know, and J.K. Rowling accomplished that with the Harry Potter series. Also, I didn't find the last 4 horcruxes to be rushed at all--it only made sense that Harry and company gained momentum finding and destroying horcruxes, once they found a means to do it. Rowling's pacing on that facet of the seventh book seemed natural to me.[/SPOILER]

[ich1990]

Seventh book spoilers included.

[SPOILER]Yeah, I can understand it getting frustrating if that sort of thing isn't your cup of tea, and it isn't necessarily mine either. However, J.K. Rowling wrote the characters to be believable (not to mention highly relatable) teenagers who not only have to fight the most dangerous dark wizard in history, but also have to deal with hormones and girlfriends and boyfriends and jealousy. It really makes the characters that much more round and realistic than if they were to be stagnantly unaware of the fact that other genders do, indeed, exist at their age. XD[/SPOILER]

[spoiler]As far as making them relatable or easy to connect to the masses, then yes, Rowling succeeded with the angsty teen romance, just like "Twilight" is doing now. Teens love their angsty teen romance. I don't. Putting in the romance and high emotions does make them more realistic, but for me, at least, it makes them unlikable. Granted, that probably puts me outside of the target audience for this series, which is why I try to be lenient when it comes to criticizing it.

I don't mind romance, contrary to how it may sound, I just prefer a more honest, less flippant type. Something like Riza and Mustang in FMA. It also bothers me that not a single teen thought responsibly enough about the future to question whether such a pairing was a good idea. The main three have a rather high risk job going after Voldemort (he has been known to torture loved ones to weaken his enemies) plus both Harry and Ron want to be Aurors. Despite this, the thought that they may be setting up a friend to become a widow or worse doesn't even cross their minds. To me it is a much truer statement of friendship and compassion to deny themselves such dangerous relationships, at least until the big bad guy is dead, and to think about someone other than themselves.

They don't have to be ignorant of the other gender, they just need to be a little more reasonable about them.[/spoiler]

[SPOILER]Perhaps it's just a personal rule of mine, but I rarely regard any movie as "better than the book" (exceptions to that rule being The Prestige and maybe a handful of others), especially when it comes to Harry Potter. The Potter books take us so much deeper inside Harry's head than the movies are often able, and given the length of the books, the movies have a reputation of leaving out important side-plots and other characters, not to mention the characters who do turn up often lose some of their development. The lack of Dobby in every film but the second is a prime example of this, not to mention the absence of Ludo Bagman, Winky, Mundungus Fletcher, and most recently, Rufus Scrimgeour.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I have a similar rule and am loath to break it. However, in the case of Harry Potter I think it is justified. I would rather have a story that is lean on details (and characters if need be) and is executed well than a story that rambles. If, for instance, Rowling had added another book or split some of the big ones in two and made sure that each had a steady stream of both main plot and side plots, or maybe written a parallel book from another point of view and used that to introduce half of the side stories, or written a book of short stories to help flesh out the universe, or done something to keep things moving on all fronts, then I would have been happy. I am sure this is a matter of personal taste, so I will leave it at that. [/spoiler]

[SPOILER]Then again, I prefer stories that have characters I feel like I really know, and J.K. Rowling accomplished that with the Harry Potter series. Also, I didn't find the last 4 horcruxes to be rushed at all--it only made sense that Harry and company gained momentum finding and destroying horcruxes, once they found a means to do it. Rowling's pacing on that facet of the seventh book seemed natural to me.[/SPOILER]

[spoiler]I like to get to know the characters as well. In fact, I thought I did, then books 5 and 6 came along and they get stuck in grumpiness and puberty. Those characters that I liked so much became shallow, and selfish.

That is a good point about the destruction of the Horcruxes, and I am willing to concede. It stands to reason that they would get better at destroying them as they had more practice. [/spoiler]

I am basing all of my opinions on my somewhat hazy recollection of the books, so forgive me if I make a mistake. Maybe I should read those books again.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

I agree that book 5 rambled for 1 third of the book, and even that much of book 6 wasn't vital to the story but I still enjoyed them (book 5 less so). As for book 7 that didn't ramble much at all (maybe for 20 or so pages in the middle) but otherwise there's a huge amount of story and character development in the final book.

I haven't seen the HP 6 movie yet. It should be good. Here in Australia it's been rated M for Mature audiences - due to Fantasy violence.

I really don't think the angsty romance in HP and Twilight can be compared. HP is much more tolerable and a bit more realistic (though I do see the point you're trying to make).

[Bobtheduck]

I agree that book 5 rambled for 1 third of the book, and even that much of book 6 wasn't vital to the story but I still enjoyed them (book 5 less so). As for book 7 that didn't ramble much at all (maybe for 20 or so pages in the middle) but otherwise there's a huge amount of story and character development in the final book

I agree about 5. 5 was too long, and there was a bit that could have been cut out. 6, on the other hand, I loved essentially from beginning to end, and I didn't really see anything wrong with 7.

Now that there will be 2 movies for 7, I'm wondering what will still be left out... It would be hard to take anything out of it, but I'm sure they'll find a way. Since they've left Bill and Fleur out this whole time, I'm thinking that [spoiler] the wedding will turn into Lupin and Tonk's wedding. What I really hope they don't leave out is Dobby's death... That was just about the biggest moment in that book for me... I know the movie creators hate the elves, because they're expensive, but it's not like they'd need a new model for Dobby, just upgrade him a little, and they need Kreacher for the locket reveal, and anything they did to take him out would cheapen it.[/spoiler] That's exactly why I'm still scared of it, even though the 2 movies is a positive step. I wish there had been extended versions, so the impatient theater goers could get their version, and the hardcore fans could get the more accurate version on the more expensive DVD (or bluray) version.

I haven't seen the new movie yet, but I plan on doing so soon.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

No, I enjoyed book 6 a lot. What I mean is that not a whole lot of it actually is necessary. There are about 400 pages of teenage relationships, most of which doesn't drive the story forward. But what a laugh.
Book 7 is my absolute favourite of the series, it's great!

As for leaving 'him' out in the DH movies? I seriously doubt they will. They aren't that stupid. Are they?

[ich1990]

As for book 7 that didn't ramble much at all (maybe for 20 or so pages in the middle) but otherwise there's a huge amount of story and character development in the final book.

I didn't really see anything wrong with 7.

I went back and read the synopsis for book seven, and the only part that I remember being truly superfluous was [spoiler]when they were sitting around in a tent in the middle the forest arguing with each other. That part went on too long. Apparently, even Snape got tired of them doing nothing and bailed them out.

Other than that, the epilogue was pretty terrible. It pretty much focused on what the couples named their kids. I would rather have heard whether or not Harry and Ron became Aurors. Did Hogwarts reopen? Do the house elves gain civil liberties? Did George continue to run their shop without Fred? etc.[/spoiler]

[ChristianKitsune]

Sooo... I wasn't a Harry Potter Fan before the last three days when I let my friends make me watch the movies... so i could go with them to see this one.

But after watching this movie...I'm going to try the books again XD. It was REALLY good...

I have to know! What was that ABSOLUTELY ADORABLE CUTE THING ON Jinny's shoulder?!!! ... I want one...

[Radical Dreamer]

[spoiler]As far as making them relatable or easy to connect to the masses, then yes, Rowling succeeded with the angsty teen romance, just like "Twilight" is doing now. Teens love their angsty teen romance. I don't. Putting in the romance and high emotions does make them more realistic, but for me, at least, it makes them unlikable. Granted, that probably puts me outside of the target audience for this series, which is why I try to be lenient when it comes to criticizing it.[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]I hardly think it even begins to be fair to compare Harry Potter with Twilight--as W4J said, Harry Potter is far more realistic (and is, therefore, relatable--I don't think I know a single girl who can relate with the kind of nauseating romance the Twilol books have XD), not to mention well-written. And considering that the Harry Potter books are truly children's books (though they mature with the audience), I don't think it's out of place or even all that unlikable, as long as you appreciate characters who have faults.[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]I don't mind romance, contrary to how it may sound, I just prefer a more honest, less flippant type. Something like Riza and Mustang in FMA. It also bothers me that not a single teen thought responsibly enough about the future to question whether such a pairing was a good idea. The main three have a rather high risk job going after Voldemort (he has been known to torture loved ones to weaken his enemies) plus both Harry and Ron want to be Aurors. Despite this, the thought that they may be setting up a friend to become a widow or worse doesn't even cross their minds. To me it is a much truer statement of friendship and compassion to deny themselves such dangerous relationships, at least until the big bad guy is dead, and to think about someone other than themselves.[/SPOILER]

[SPOILER]Understandable though your opinions on fictional romance may be, you seem to misunderstand the teenage way of thinking. These characters are not responsible adults: they're teenagers who are struggling (just as Malfoy struggles in the movie) to come to terms with living out their teenage years to the fullest while also having to face a challenge far above most people their age. This conflict is far less of a mistake in the writing than it is a deliberate attempt to show the pains of growing up, especially when it's done faster than it should.

As far as denying themselves dangerous relationships is concerned, Harry actually does this at the end of book 6 (though it's left out in the movie), so he does take responsibility for that aspect of his life in the end (that may be one of the things you've forgotten in not having read the books for some time XD). Either way, there's definitely far more to the relationships in Harry Potter, at least from a literary perspective, than snogging and jealousy.[/SPOILER]

[spoiler]I like to get to know the characters as well. In fact, I thought I did, then books 5 and 6 came along and they get stuck in grumpiness and puberty. Those characters that I liked so much became shallow, and selfish.[/spoiler]

[SPOILER]In other words, they become flawed. And flawed characters, though they may frustrate the reader, are infinitely more interesting than flat characters who have no depth and simply do everything right all the time (or do everything wrong all the time, a la Draco). I think the way the characters act in the 5th and 6th books are completely natural and ought to be expected. In book 4, Harry undergoes a major trauma in losing a friend to the same villain who killed his parents and is betrayed by someone he thought to be his befriended teacher, not to mention the experience of being knifed open to help bring Voldemort back.

In book 5, he's 15, at the top of his hormonal changes, unable to release the stress of what's just happened, living with the people he hates the most, and isolated from everything he holds dear. I ask, what reason does Harry NOT have to act like an emotional wreck? XD "He should be more mature about it," but maturation is a process, and I think it's fascinating that the reader gets to see just how Harry matures over the course of the series, and especially books 5-7. Granted, I may be biased as book 5 was my favorite in the series for all of these reasons, but I think they're legitimate reasons. XD [/SPOILER]

[ich1990]

QUOTE=Radical Dreamer (post: 1329394)][SPOILER]I hardly think it even begins to be fair to compare Harry Potter with Twilight--as W4J said, Harry Potter is far more realistic (and is, therefore, relatable--I don't think I know a single girl who can relate with the kind of nauseating romance the Twilol books have XD), not to mention well-written. And considering that the Harry Potter books are truly children's books (though they mature with the audience), I don't think it's out of place or even all that unlikable, as long as you appreciate characters who have faults.[/SPOILER]

I am not comparing the quality of Twilight to Harry Potter. I don't hate HP that much. I am just pointing out the fact that both use teen angst, at varying levels, to try to relate to teenagers and it works.

[SPOILER]Understandable though your opinions on fictional romance may be, you seem to misunderstand the teenage way of thinking. These characters are not responsible adults: they're teenagers who are struggling (just as Malfoy struggles in the movie) to come to terms with living out their teenage years to the fullest while also having to face a challenge far above most people their age. This conflict is far less of a mistake in the writing than it is a deliberate attempt to show the pains of growing up, especially when it's done faster than it should. As far as denying themselves dangerous relationships is concerned, Harry actually does this at the end of book 6 (though it's left out in the movie), so he does take responsibility for that aspect of his life in the end (that may be one of the things you've forgotten in not having read the books for some time XD). Either way, there's definitely far more to the relationships in Harry Potter, at least from a literary perspective, than snogging and jealousy.[/SPOILER]

[spoiler]Perhaps my indictment of this part of Harry Potter is more an indictment of the entire U.S. teenage population than these characters in particular. “]

[SPOILER]In other words, they become flawed. And flawed characters, though they may frustrate the reader, are infinitely more interesting than flat characters who have no depth and simply do everything right all the time (or do everything wrong all the time, a la Draco). I think the way the characters act in the 5th and 6th books are completely natural and ought to be expected. In book 4, Harry undergoes a major trauma in losing a friend to the same villain who killed his parents and is betrayed by someone he thought to be his befriended teacher, not to mention the experience of being knifed open to help bring Voldemort back. In book 5, he's 15, at the top of his hormonal changes, unable to release the stress of what's just happened, living with the people he hates the most, and isolated from everything he holds dear. I ask, what reason does Harry NOT have to act like an emotional wreck? XD "He should be more mature about it," but maturation is a process, and I think it's fascinating that the reader gets to see just how Harry matures over the course of the series, and especially books 5-7. Granted, I may be biased as book 5 was my favorite in the series for all of these reasons, but I think they're legitimate reasons. XD [/SPOILER]

[spoiler]I like flawed characters, just not annoying ones. Draco was, as you say, flawed in the sixth movie, but he was not annoying in the least. Snape is arguably flawed, but I like him. I hesitate to mention other books as you may not have read them, but “]

At this point it seems silly to continue arguing for a point of view I developed years ago and haven't had a chance to reevaluate since (given your arguments I think a reevaluation is reasonable), so I won't. Perhaps I should reread the series. Maybe the latter three books will be better than I remember. Maybe the characters aren't quite so bad considering the society that they are trying to emulate. Either way, I think we can both agree that this latest movie is quite good. With the next one being split into two parts things are looking up for that one as well. If we keep getting good movies like the previous six, the books can be as disappointing as they want.

[~darkelfgirl~]

Saw it today. Being picky, I didn't really like some of the lines (like the whole Harry and Ginny conversations), but overall, it was good. I almost died from laughter when my friend jumped at the Inferi part. Wanted to bawl at the end--just brought back memories.

[christianfriend]

I have to know! What was that ABSOLUTELY ADORABLE CUTE THING ON Jinny's shoulder?!!! ... I want one...

They're called Pygmy Puffs! Ginny got it from Fred and George's shop :3

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

ich, yes, I'm talking about the part in the tent. Also the epilogue wasn't great but it was okay, the children's names were ridiculous though.


My thoughts on Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince:
[spoiler]Just returned from seeing it. I thought it was quite good but a little disappointing in some parts. We didn't learn anything about Voldermort's past (which I really enjoyed in the book). Also Dumbledore's death should have been a terrible moment but it was glossed over (the send off at the end was well done though and touching). Not sure the young Tom Riddle was the right actor for the job but the older version was better. Overall, I much prefer the book but the movie had gorgeous visuals, a good pace (even though there wasn't much action), lots of good laughs and some good to great acting. The Sectum Sempra scene with Malfoy and Potter was good but better in the book - I was impressed that Draco was all bloody, even though we saw no actual wounds (not sure how that received a PG rating in the US, along with the Inferi scene).
The Battle of Hogwarts should have been included as without it Dumbledore's death scene was very anti-climatic. As for the funeral, I think we'll see at the beginning of Deathly Hallows - Part 1.[/spoiler]

My favourites are as follows:

Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix - 8.5/10
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban - 8/10 (yes, it was very different to the book but it was a great movie).
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - 7.5/10

[uc pseudonym]

I am going to post here despite having not seen the film. It is unlikely that I will go, either, given that for some reason I have never been particularly invested in the film versions of Harry Potter. But glancing at the discussion in this thread I think I have something to add and at the very least I'll clarify my thoughts by typing them.

[spoiler]However, J.K. Rowling wrote the characters to be believable (not to mention highly relatable) teenagers who not only have to fight the most dangerous dark wizard in history, but also have to deal with hormones and girlfriends and boyfriends and jealousy. It really makes the characters that much more round and realistic than if they were to be stagnantly unaware of the fact that other genders do, indeed, exist at their age. XD[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I think this is the (hor)crux of the difference. Specifically, the part about readers relating to the characters. Some teenagers are hormone-ridden, yes, but not all of them. Some teenagers do act like responsible adults and I for one am tired of entertainment acting as though they don't exist (and especially of it insisting that these things are mandatory).

Just to clarify, I don't think I can speak for ich1990's position. But I can speak for my own, which I think is at least in the same general family. So full speed ahead.

While flawed characters are a cornerstone of literature, I do not think that all flaws add depth. For example, if characters are miserably shallow they are clearly flawed, but that does not make them interesting. I'm not pointing at HP characters there, so let me use a different example.

Consider Macbeth. The protagonist is flawed and makes many poor choices - the play is about his self-destruction, in a sense. But would the play be nearly as meaningful if he killed King Duncan and Banquo accidentally while swinging his sword for no reason? Naturally not: clumsiness is not a valid character flaw (coughTwilightcough). It adds no depth and, when the focus of a plot, drains interest from the story.

Likewise, stupidity is not really a useful flaw. Whether or not the actions of Harry and company count as stupidity is a question that involves a lot of different things. For the sake of this discussion, it is probably best to say that it is a matter of personal preference.

Speaking for myself, I enjoyed the series well enough, but my attitude toward Harry across all seven books was "Stop being an idiot." This is not limited to romantic subplots. Quite a few people championed Snape's innocence not because they liked the character, but on the tongue-in-cheek basis that Harry's judgment was so spectacularly awful that if he hated Snape then Snape must be good.

One last reason this element of Harry Potter annoys me: I feel it models a dysfunctional system. It is almost exactly the same as why endless portrayals of dysfunctional families bother me. There's nothing wrong with dysfunction in art (Death of a Salesman is brilliant) but when repeated relentlessly it gets dull. No family is perfect, but many of them are healthy and friendly. To suggest that these people would have more depth if they treated one another like idiots is misguided, I believe.[/spoiler]

To end this on a positive note, every single time someone puts "snogging" in quotes my mood lifts slightly.