Salvation Survey: Saved or Self-Deceived?

[TheMelodyMaker]

[quote]You prayed to accept Jesus, you serve in a Bible-believing church, you tell others about your faith — yet one day you stand before God and He says, “I never knew you.â€

[Tsukuyomi]

Thank you for sharing this with us Melmak ^___^ We have a full house right now, so I'm afraid I'll have to check it out later 8(

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

I've had a bit of a read and maybe I'm not getting it but I used to feel secure in my salvation because I believe on Christ and tried to trust him in all areas of my life. I struggle greatly with that and don't see the Christian life as a cakewalk. This has given me reasons to doubt (not convict me). It almost places too much emphasis on the straight and narrow and being difficult (it sure is) and not enough on the saving grace of Christ.
Maybe I'm just reading it incorrectly.

Could you please clarify the main points of the talk because I may have missed something and I'm not exactly feeling all that secure at the moment.
Thanks.

I know it's good to feel conviction but having doubts about salvation is no small matter. I don't want to go OCD on anyone.

[Momo-P]

I've had a bit of a read and maybe I'm not getting it but I used to feel secure in my salvation because I believe on Christ and tried to trust him in all areas of my life. I struggle greatly with that and don't see the Christian life as a cakewalk. This has given me reasons to doubt (not convict me). It almost places too much emphasis on the straight and narrow and being difficult (it sure is) and not enough on the saving grace of Christ.
Maybe I'm just reading it incorrectly.

Could you please clarify the main points of the talk because I may have missed something and I'm not exactly feeling all that secure at the moment.
Thanks.

I second this request 100%]really[/I] seems to neglect the saving grace of God. Maybe it was just me, but it almost felt like he was saying "You have to be perfect. No exceptions". Sure he points out the impossibility of that, but then he seems to go right back to pointing out all these "signs" to show that you may not be a real Christian. One of which even says (in short), if you don't feel guilty about your sins (because you're so into the saving grace of God), then you aren't really saved.

...what? Don't most pastors and Christians in general actually stress that part? Sure we remind ourselves not to sin in the first place, but when we do? Most people I know have told me not to cry and beat myself up. You've already been forgiven, so just put it behind you and don't dwell on it. You know it's wrong, you say you're sorry, you go on with life.

I dunno, like Warrior said, this one really left me feeling a bit uneasy. It's one thing to say that you're not really a Christian if you don't try or really acknowledge God, but it's another to say "You love God? You accepted Jesus? You really do wanna do what's right?...too bad, you're going to hell." I mean, going by that, then this statement:

"I tell you, all those who stand before others and say they believe in me, I, the Son of Man, will say before the angels of God that they belong to me."
-Luke 12:8

would be a lie, wouldn't it? I mean, if standing before people and saying this (and truely believeing it) really wouldn't save you, then Jesus just lied, didn't He? Mind you, I know Jesus didn't lie, but that's my point. It just doesn't totally feel quite right to me...plus he seems to stress that "only very few will make it through" issue. Yes very few will make it, but that's also taking into account all the people who have lived in the past, present and future. Even if all of the current USA was saved, that still wouldn't be a lot when you line up all the humans of the earth.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Hi Momo, good to hear from you mate. I'm not saying I doubt fully, it's just that little bit of doubt that's worming it's way into my consciousness. I just need the point of the talk to be clarified.
Good post by the way.

[Momo-P]

Hi Momo, good to hear from you mate. I'm not saying I doubt fully, it's just that little bit of doubt that's worming it's way into my consciousness. I just need the point of the talk to be clarified.
Good post by the way.

Well if it helps anything, I'd reread Matt 7:15-24 on your own. I'm not saying this guy's words don't matter, but lets face it. Christians are going to interpret things differently. All and all, I do think he has the right idea, but maybe he just says it wrongly. Instead of just focusing on 21-23, start with 15. When you read the WHOLE passage, it does come off a bit differently (or at least to me).

The first thing Jesus says is to be careful of false prophets. I think this is very important because it seems to highlight specifically which people He's talking about in the next passage. After all, how many "prophets" have we seen in recent years that go on tv, online, go to small towns, etc. and "heal people", "cast out demons", and "tell of the future from God"? It happens all the time! And many of them are total fakers! They just do it to get money and are usually exposed by their fruits. People see them going to questionable places, saying or doing strange things, teaching stuff that has errors, etc. But when they die, will they probably try and bribe God with what they did? Well of course they will. They honestly did teach people and do things in His name, that ain't no lie, but the fact their heart wasn't into it means it doesn't count.

Then you also have the idiots who say they're Christians just because they were raised that way (which are the ones this guy seems to heavily be referencing). They're those Christian kids who are only called that because they go to a special school, know some stuff about the Bible, etc. When it comes to their behavior though, they totally neglect God and don't even TRY to be good. It's kind of strange this whole ordeal got brought up actually. Just the other day I watched a show where a girl claimed to have met a guy at a Bible study, but acted like a total witch. She actually forbid her bride's maids from weighing more than 200 lb because she didn't want them looking better than her. She also constantly yelled at her to-be husband and told him this wasn't a time for having fun or being in love, that would have to wait until after their wedding was over. In short...it's hard to tell if she really is a Christian or just somebody who thinks they are because "I care about God! I go to church man!"

Personally, I really believe that's what this man was trying to say, but I think maybe his words just came off weird. I tried to reread his sermon myself today and I gotta admit, after the intial worry was gone, I did see more what he was possibly saying. I think it just depends on the mood you're in when you read it, yanno? If this post doesn't help, I'm sorry, but I was praying God would give me some possible explanation on this. ^^; XD

[shooraijin]

Melmak, I think it *would* be a good idea to clarify the key points you believe the speaker is emphasizing.

[Reon]

Romans 10:9-10 in the Bible says, "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

The Bible says, "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." (James 2:26 NIV)
http://www.wikihow.com/Know-That-You-Are-Going-to-Heaven-As-a-Christian

This website summed up my thoughts quite nicely, especially point two. To be honest though, in my life - I hardly ever think about that stuff unless it comes across me. If I keep my eyes fixed on Jesus, continue to keep him the number one priority in my life and put trust in him, as well as continue to STRIVE for Mark 12:30 "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength" - I think God will take me to wherever he wants me to go. One thing that really scared me is when I listened to that "The Revival Hymn" and realized a lot of my Christian walk was more for me than it was for God. If you truly want to consider others better than yourself, who do you think you start with?

I like this song =)
You might need an account on Imeem (free music streaming site like pandora)

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Yes, I agree with you Reon, but it sounds to me more like he's saying something else.

[TheMelodyMaker]

I want to apologize for creating any confusion; that wasn't what I intended to do at all when I started this thread. I just wanted anyone looking here to carefully examine themselves to make sure their standing before the Lord is truly good, and nothing more than that. The last thing I want is for this thread to become a theological debate; I hadn't even thought of that when I started it. -_-

But, it seems some clarification is needed. I'm not very good at explaining things, but I'll do the best I can to summarize what I believe John is saying in his sermons -- because it's what I've also come to believe myself over the past few years.

Yes, salvation is by grace through the work of Christ Jesus on the cross -- a generous, undeserved gift to all who are willing to humble themselves in obedience to the Word of God. It all starts with humility -- admitting that you fall short of God's holy standard and cannot save yourself, and that you've done nothing to deserve His favor. It is the soul crying out for deliverance from sin and death. It then progresses to repentance, with the desire to turn away from sin in obedience to God's Word.

That's the mark of someone who is truly saved. Those who claim to be Christian but don't have the heart attitude of wanting to become more like Christ by obeying His commands (John 14:15) are those for whom I intended this thread. They're the ones who need to carefully examine themselves to make sure that they're truly ready to enter Heaven and enjoy eternal life.

I hope that helped to clear up any misunderstanding that I caused by starting up this thread, and that I didn't create any more misunderstanding by making this post. ^_^;

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Thanks mate, I agree with what you've written.

[danceljoy]

Thanks for posting, but honestly there are some things that bugs me:

"All feminists (listen to this line, all feminists) are making the world less and less like the one described in the Bible, and are thus helping to lessen the influence of Christ and God on humanity."

That line hurt me a lot. I have always considered feminism a wonderful philosophy and have even read that Jesus is the best feminist ever because not even once in his walk in this earth had he ridiculed or belittled women.

Of course I have the conviction that because feminism is a gift from God, it should be under God's laws; meaning, it should not support abortion, same-sex marriages, and personally, divorce. I also firmly believe in the authority of a husband over his wife and the importance of motherhood; gender roles inside the family. Radical feminism (the drive to be equal to men in all fields) is contradicting itself for viewing the status of mothers and housewives as low.

But saying that all feminists are bad really made me troubled. I know the devil may be putting wrong things on my head. Maybe the meaning of feminism differs from one country to another. Recently, God said to me "Just trust Me and my Word."

Should this be in a separate thread?