How can you watch/read anything with witchcraft and still be a christian?

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Postby EricTheFred » Thu May 21, 2009 11:57 am

~darkelfgirl~ (post: 1313677) wrote: believe true witchcraft involves the invocation and action (to carry out 'spells') of spirits aka demons, not 'wave the wand and insert Latin here' hocus-pocus.


This is the very crux of the problem, I would say. To many people, 'Witchcraft' simply means achieving supernatural (in its literal meaning, 'beyond nature') results by means other than requesting them of the Lord. In other words, if it isn't natural, it can only be a miracle or witchcraft.

I think this is the definition that was operating from Hellenic-age Judaism up through most of the Christian era. The problem is, by this definition, you, I and most of the other people in the world are witches in the eyes of any early Christian who saw our daily lives; we invoke strange powers far beyond their ken, creating light by a mere gesture against the wall, speaking with people far beyond hearing distance, and traveling at unnatural speeds in wagons not drawn by any beast of burden.

If the source is not considered, then anything from Harry Potter to Terry Brooks can be labeled 'Witchcraft'. It will make no more sense than what I just stated, but it fits the definition the detractors choose to use.

I'm starting to push the CAA theology rules, so I will leave it with this: if in your heart you feel confident it isn't contrary to God's will that you read and enjoy these things, then don't worry about it. There are many, many other issues in life far more important for you to concern yourself over.
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Postby Momo-P » Thu May 21, 2009 2:23 pm

I think this is the definition that was operating from Hellenic-age Judaism up through most of the Christian era. The problem is, by this definition, you, I and most of the other people in the world are witches in the eyes of any early Christian who saw our daily lives; we invoke strange powers far beyond their ken, creating light by a mere gesture against the wall, speaking with people far beyond hearing distance, and traveling at unnatural speeds in wagons not drawn by any beast of burden.

I'm no expert when it comes to magic in fiction (though I know there are people who actually are), but isn't most fictional magic usually regarded as a higher form of science? Fullmetal Alchemist regards its alchemy as a science and I believe Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha gets her power (although refered to as magic) from a program that changes her energy into magical attacks. Mind you this doesn't apply to all stories, but in most of the ones where pretty much anyone can learn magic, it does seem that the characters have to rely heavily on books and potions and all sorts of items into order to learn the spells properly.
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Postby EricTheFred » Thu May 21, 2009 2:57 pm

Momo-P (post: 1313750) wrote:I'm no expert when it comes to magic in fiction (though I know there are people who actually are), but isn't most fictional magic usually regarded as a higher form of science? Fullmetal Alchemist regards its alchemy as a science and I believe Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha gets her power (although refered to as magic) from a program that changes her energy into magical attacks. Mind you this doesn't apply to all stories, but in most of the ones where pretty much anyone can learn magic, it does seem that the characters have to rely heavily on books and potions and all sorts of items into order to learn the spells properly.


That's pretty much what I'm noting. As I said in an earlier post, the 'magic' in most cases is in effect a technology, and the issues the characters have dealing with it are often just analogs to the issues we have dealing with real-world technology and how to use it correctly.

I can think of only a few cases where the magic does appear to be the powers of Hell being called upon. However, it is the Bad Guys doing the calling, and they are defeated by someone in opposition to Hell. I'm trying to think of cases where the Protagonists are actually aligned with the Devil. I can think of a few titles I've never bothered with, which might be like this (Hell Girl is the first one that comes to mind.) but none of the titles I've actually read.
May the Lord bless you and keep you.
May He cause His face to shine upon you.
May He lift up His countenance and grant you peace.

Maokun: Ninjas or Pirates? (Vikings are not a valid answer, sorry)

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Postby Fish and Chips » Thu May 21, 2009 4:12 pm

Hell Girl is one of the few cases I've heard of where allying yourself with Hell yeilds exactly what you'd expect, actually. Sure, you can cut a deal with the devil for your revenge, but the price is hardly what I'd consider worth it.
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Postby Nate » Fri May 22, 2009 5:17 am

If waving around a stick and chanting Latin words qualified as witchcraft then I'd be the mightiest sorceror in the land.
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Postby EricTheFred » Fri May 22, 2009 8:08 am

Nate (post: 1313897) wrote:If waving around a stick and chanting Latin words qualified as witchcraft then I'd be the mightiest sorceror in the land.


Somewhere out there in the Internets (it's been years since I found it) is a 'debunking' website devoted to the claim that Harry Potter is an attempt to teach kids about witchcraft. The guy seriously goes through all kinds of different 'spells', taken directly from the book, attempting each one (complete with props such as a wand and a wizard's cloak) and of course, failing miserably. It was a fun way to kill a slow Friday at work.
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Postby Tsukuyomi » Fri May 22, 2009 12:20 pm

EricTheFred (post: 1313922) wrote:Somewhere out there in the Internets (it's been years since I found it) is a 'debunking' website devoted to the claim that Harry Potter is an attempt to teach kids about witchcraft. The guy seriously goes through all kinds of different 'spells', taken directly from the book, attempting each one (complete with props such as a wand and a wizard's cloak) and of course, failing miserably. It was a fun way to kill a slow Friday at work.


This post made me lol xDD I guess you're never to old to play pretend xDD
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Postby Etoh*the*Greato » Fri May 22, 2009 12:33 pm

EricTheFred (post: 1313922) wrote:Somewhere out there in the Internets (it's been years since I found it) is a 'debunking' website devoted to the claim that Harry Potter is an attempt to teach kids about witchcraft. The guy seriously goes through all kinds of different 'spells', taken directly from the book, attempting each one (complete with props such as a wand and a wizard's cloak) and of course, failing miserably. It was a fun way to kill a slow Friday at work.


Clearly his wand wasn't made with REAL magical materials or else it would have worked. lol
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Postby Nate » Fri May 22, 2009 3:57 pm

EricTheFred wrote:Somewhere out there in the Internets (it's been years since I found it) is a 'debunking' website devoted to the claim that Harry Potter is an attempt to teach kids about witchcraft. The guy seriously goes through all kinds of different 'spells', taken directly from the book, attempting each one (complete with props such as a wand and a wizard's cloak) and of course, failing miserably. It was a fun way to kill a slow Friday at work.

I read that one, the guy was I believe a youth pastor. He tried some D&D spells including Feather Fall (which left him sprawling on the driveway) and Polymorph Self (in which he tried to turn himself into the unbelievably handsome Bruce Campbell). Then he tried some Harry Potter spells but he said he couldn't find Phoenix feathers or unicorn hair, so he used pillow down and dog hair I think it was.

It was a great article which proves beyond any doubt that people who say "You can do Harry Potter/D&D spells in real life!" are completely insane and to be laughed at.
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Postby Radical Dreamer » Fri May 22, 2009 4:14 pm

EricTheFred (post: 1313922) wrote:Somewhere out there in the Internets (it's been years since I found it) is a 'debunking' website devoted to the claim that Harry Potter is an attempt to teach kids about witchcraft. The guy seriously goes through all kinds of different 'spells', taken directly from the book, attempting each one (complete with props such as a wand and a wizard's cloak) and of course, failing miserably. It was a fun way to kill a slow Friday at work.


This sounds incredible. XD I may go on an internet adventure to find this website someday. XDD
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Postby Nate » Fri May 22, 2009 4:21 pm

I found the article by the way.

http://www.theescapist.com/spells/
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Postby Radical Dreamer » Fri May 22, 2009 4:46 pm

Nate (post: 1314036) wrote:I found the article by the way.

http://www.theescapist.com/spells/


Oh gosh, that's hilarious! XDDD I love his "wand" and his conclusion that he must be a Muggle after all. XD Incredible. XDD
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Postby Robin Firedrake » Fri May 22, 2009 6:05 pm

That's freakin' hilarious! I showed my mom, hoping she would let me play d&d or somethin' like that. She is the absolute most stubborn person there ever will be...
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Postby EricTheFred » Fri May 22, 2009 6:51 pm

Nate (post: 1314036) wrote:I found the article by the way.

http://www.theescapist.com/spells/


This is it! Nate rules the universe (as we all knew anyhow)!
May the Lord bless you and keep you.
May He cause His face to shine upon you.
May He lift up His countenance and grant you peace.

Maokun: Ninjas or Pirates? (Vikings are not a valid answer, sorry)

EricTheFred: Vikings are always a valid answer.

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Postby KumaruRockz » Fri May 22, 2009 8:51 pm

Robin Firedrake (post: 1314047) wrote:That's freakin' hilarious! I showed my mom, hoping she would let me play d&d or somethin' like that. She is the absolute most stubborn person there ever will be...


I love your mom :D
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Postby Nate » Fri May 22, 2009 9:11 pm

KumaruRockz wrote:I love your mom :D

Wow. I didn't know we were allowed to say stuff like this on CAA. And I thought I was a pervert.

EDIT: Actually, you know what? I know what you meant by this statement, and I'm not going to just leave it at a response like this. I've seen you do this in too many threads too many times, and I'm going to stop it right here right now.

It's obvious you don't like anything with magic in it, fictional or otherwise. That's fine. Nobody here is going to condemn you for being cautious. But I am absolutely sick and tired of you acting like a pompous jerk just because of it. The Bible condemns practicing witchcraft, that's indisputible. Watching an anime where the main character shoots a fireball out of their fingertips is NOT witchcraft, despite what you think. Playing D&D and Dragon Quest and games with fictional magic, as opposed to the REAL magic that the Bible warns against, is not a sin.

I repeat, it is NOT a sin, and quit trying to push your beliefs on everyone. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.

Know what that is? That's me using Scripture, God's Word, to put you in your place. It's called Romans 14, and as we know from 2 Timothy, ALL Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

You don't want to watch anime or play games with magic. Know what? That's great! Seriously, it's good of you to want to hold yourself to high standards. It is a good thing to always be trying to be righteous. The problem comes in when you want to hold everyone else to YOUR standards. Going back to Romans 14, one guy thinks it's a sin to eat meat, because maybe he thinks killing animals even for food is wrong when you can survive on veggies alone. HOWEVER, that does NOT give the vegetarian guy the right to go up to someone eating a steak and say "How can you stand to sin like this? That's so terrible that you're eating meat, that's so wrong." The vegetarian guy must be respectful of the other guy's different beliefs.

LIKEWISE, the guy eating steak can't go to the vegetarian and say "It's stupid that you don't eat meat, eating meat is perfectly fine! Don't you remember the verse where God told Peter to kill and eat? It's so dumb that you think eating meat is wrong!" He has to respect the vegetarian too. It's a two-way street.

And you, brother, have failed in respecting the beliefs of others. You don't want to partake of fictional magic in your entertainment? Awesome! But quit going around posting crap like "You guys play games with magic? That's terrible!" and sitting there saying you love some guy's mom because she prevents him from doing something he thinks is fun. That's not respectful at all, it's being rude and conceited.

Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

That's Romans 14 again. The verse that tells you not to judge others for what they think is acceptable or not. Written by Paul. Smart man.

This thread will probably now be, and should be, locked. The question has been answered, multiple times, and now will more than likely turn into a giant "NO U"-fest.

And I apologize for coming off as a bit harsh, but seriously Kumaru. Did you read any of the posts in this thread? Where people said it's up to the individual to pray about it? And maybe God gives some people a different answer than others, and that's fine. But to constantly berate others for having different opinions than you, well, that's just not cool.
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Postby LadyRushia » Sat May 23, 2009 7:19 am

Yes, this discussion is over now for the sake of preventing it from degenerating into a flame war. If anyone wants to respond to anything that was said, take it to PM.
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