How can you watch/read anything with witchcraft and still be a christian?

[Etoh*the*Greato]

My brother-in-law (a born again Christian and founder of an outreach ministry program) read the Satanist bible after he got saved, just to see what it teaches. His verdict was that it's poorly written and basically just an essay on anarchy.

And he wasn't really wrong.

[Gelka]

If this is a boundary you're not comfortable crossing, then that's fine. For others, it may not be such an issue. For others still that I have known they would take it a step further and say that it must be in no way connected.

But why tempt yourself? Seriously. You may not mean to but, sometimes things that you think you'd never get into start to seem like not such a bad thing after all. I'm not saying that everything that has witchcraft in it is bad, it's just how they view it.

[Htom Sirveaux]

I've always kinda thought... if the witches in real life could actually do what the fictional ones do, we'd be in a heap of trouble...

If they did, I might have been one myself. Sounds like fun.

That being said, that doesn't mean one ought to be constantly reading fantastic, fictional stories.

Why not? I read a little nonfiction occasionally, but the vast majority of it bores the crap out of me. In fact, running parallel to anything else I'm reading (which is usually fiction), I read Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels back-to-back.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

But why tempt yourself? Seriously. You may not mean to but, sometimes things that you think you'd never get into start to seem like not such a bad thing after all. I'm not saying that everything that has witchcraft in it is bad, it's just how they view it.

Because it's genuinely not a temptation to me. I can separate what I read in a work of fiction from the way that reality works. I know that if I point a stick at my room mate and spout broken latin, he's not going to sudden levitate.

These things simply don't affect my relationship with God, and additionally these works of fiction can provide excellent allegory providing you with stories of figures who are exemplars of Christ-like qualities of love, joy, compassion, etc. They're fables, and nothing more.

Like I said, if you personally feel you shouldn't cross the boundary, then please. Don't. Paul urges us to only tkae what we can handle and run from all else, and likewise not to cast judgment on those who are able to handle or unable to handle different things than us. Barring actual trafficking with the Devil, though, God said "let no one call unclean what I have made clean."

[chibiphonebooth]

Because it's genuinely not a temptation to me. I can separate what I read in a work of fiction from the way that reality works. I know that if I point a stick at my room mate and spout broken latin, he's not going to sudden levitate.

These things simply don't affect my relationship with God, and additionally these works of fiction can provide excellent allegory providing you with stories of figures who are exemplars of Christ-like qualities of love, joy, compassion, etc. They're fables, and nothing more.

Like I said, if you personally feel you shouldn't cross the boundary, then please. Don't. Paul urges us to only tkae what we can handle and run from all else, and likewise not to cast judgment on those who are able to handle or unable to handle different things than us. Barring actual trafficking with the Devil, though, God said "let no one call unclean what I have made clean."

agreed. also, if you take the mindset of "but what if it tempts you," you can do that with everything. then you can just end up in a christian bubble, afraid of everything. Your christianity can become so weak that once something comes to tempt you, you fall for it right away. i've seen that happen to people. :[

but also, i'm not saying that we should throw ourselves at everything and not be mindful of what we take in. i think when it comes down to it, it falls along your personal walk with G-d. If you feel that it is something that might really shake your relationship with Him, then it should be something that is avoided.

[Gelka]

Because it's genuinely not a temptation to me. I can separate what I read in a work of fiction from the way that reality works. I know that if I point a stick at my room mate and spout broken latin, he's not going to sudden levitate.

These things simply don't affect my relationship with God, and additionally these works of fiction can provide excellent allegory providing you with stories of figures who are exemplars of Christ-like qualities of love, joy, compassion, etc. They're fables, and nothing more.

Like I said, if you personally feel you shouldn't cross the boundary, then please. Don't. Paul urges us to only tkae what we can handle and run from all else, and likewise not to cast judgment on those who are able to handle or unable to handle different things than us. Barring actual trafficking with the Devil, though, God said "let no one call unclean what I have made clean."

^^

[ShiroiHikari]

He didn't say everyone was like him. Did you read the second part of his post?

[Gelka]

Correct and, I apologize for doing so. What they said was totally true. Dropping it here. ^^

[Lilac#18]

Lilac#18:

Do you personally feel that any little girl who hears the story of Cinderella or Snow White becomes a practicing witch, or that kids who watch Christmastime cartoons about Santa Claus get cursed, or at the very least, exposed to bad influences to the point that they become failures of humanity?

I can understand this opinion and if your sister feels like fairy tales are not appropriate for kids (which I kind of agree with, because they give little girls expectations that romantic love is something they should all strive for, which I think is a bad thing, but let's not go into that), then she's the mom, she can do what she feels is right. But if it's not going to affect you, don't stress out too much over it.

I personally don't think any kid (or anyone) will get that influence by cartoons/movies/tv shows that has evil in it unless evil is the only thing in it and if it endorses evil. I don't think we'll get cursed or go to hell if we watch/read anything with witchcraft/magic either. I don't have a problem with my sister preventing her kids from watching/reading anything with witchcraft or magic, but my problem is she trys to tell me not to watch/read anything with witchcraft/magic. I can get away with reading anything with witchcraft, but I can't watch anything without her saying "You shouldn't be watching that, it represents the devil." She gets on my nerves with that. I'm old enough to make my on decisions.

[Shao Feng-Li]

If they did, I might have been one myself. Sounds like fun.




Why not? I read a little nonfiction occasionally, but the vast majority of it bores the crap out of me. In fact, running parallel to anything else I'm reading (which is usually fiction), I read Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels back-to-back.

I mean, make sure you get a reality check from time to time and read a Bible XD

[Htom Sirveaux]

I mean, make sure you get a reality check from time to time and read a Bible XD

Oh of course. I've only started about half a year or so ago for the first time, like, ever. And I certainly agree, the Bible is extremely fulfilling, especially if you really sink your teeth into it, like taking notes for later consideration and looking up paticularly interesting bits. You know, really seek to understand the word of God rather than just reading for the sake of reading it. That makes the reading process a little slower, but I've gotten more out of it that way.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Sweet, heh. I really need to do that too...

[KumaruRockz]

Okay, well that's like saying we can read books and watch movies where the Devil is the good guy as long as it's fiction.

[Htom Sirveaux]

Okay, well that's like saying we can read books and watch movies where the Devil is the good guy as long as it's fiction.

In most cases I don't see why any Christian would want to, at least for pleasure.
However, John Milton's Paradise Lost portrays Satan as the protagonist or sympathetic character, and yet it's a great work of literature.

Wow. You know, I sincerely hope we can keep this civilized (I didn't jinx it there, did I?), because this is a very interesting conversation.

[Shao Feng-Li]

I don't think anyone's said that anyway.

I think the Screwtape Letters might be like that, the whole thing be an exchange of letters between devils and all. But there's a bigger point to it all.

[EricTheFred]

I think the Screwtape Letters might be like that, the whole thing be an exchange of letters between devils and all. But there's a bigger point to it all.

Yeah, ultimately the message of the Screwtape Letters is, it sucks to be on the losing team. You kinda feel sorry for the poor things in the end.

[Kaligraphic]

Watching Harry Potter no more makes me a witch than watching a McDonalds commercial makes me a hamburger.



That said, I think we've already covered differing strengths and reality versus fantasy. I think that leaves one more point - our witness.

While sometimes our witness will require us to give something up, it may also require us to engage in activities outside of our norm. Some people will only listen to someone who abstains from all the "naughty" things in the world, but not everybody is like that. Most of the world has heard the message of sin and how their behavior separates them from God so much that they give up on God entirely. After all, the point of the law is to show that it's impossible to merit salvation. It's even harder when we add in more recently-invented vices like smoking and using plastic grocery bags. What's a poor sinner to do but accept that they are going to hell?

But what happens if some poor guy who thinks he's going to hell for watching Harry Potter happens to meet a minister of God while in line to see the latest Potter movie? Suddenly that barrier between God and man is broken, that curtain is ripped, and he can begin to believe that God can love him regardless of his taste in movies. I happen to know believers who are passionate christians today because ministers of God met them evenly - smoking a cigarette or listening to hip-hop music or just being normal human beings instead of some untouchable celestial entities. It's important, before condemning someone for doing something that we ourselves do not do, to consider that that person may have a different ministry. God may want to save the Naruto fan just as strongly as he wants to save the Gundam fan.

I'm not saying that you should go run out and start smoking, drinking, and watching/reading any form of entertainment you can find that seems "unchristian" just to do so. Use wisdom. If an action would build one bridge and burn another, you do need to double-check that you've got the correct plan of action - there may be a better way to build that bridge.

Still, even if God never has you watch any show or movie or anime featuring witchcraft or anything else remotely objectionable (working with the Amish, maybe), that doesn't mean that it can't be another Christian's witness to be a smoking, drinking, Harry-Potter-watching biker. Maybe they're called to turn the Hell's Angels to the cause of heaven, and they'd never be received in a priest's collar. You don't know what God has called everyone to do, and judging them out of your own ignorance will leave you cutting yourself off needlessly from a part of the body of Christ. Love God, love your fellow believers, and trust the Lord to keep His people in line with His will.

[ShiroiHikari]

Watching Harry Potter no more makes me a witch than watching a McDonalds commercial makes me a hamburger.



That said, I think we've already covered differing strengths and reality versus fantasy. I think that leaves one more point - our witness.

While sometimes our witness will require us to give something up, it may also require us to engage in activities outside of our norm. Some people will only listen to someone who abstains from all the "naughty" things in the world, but not everybody is like that. Most of the world has heard the message of sin and how their behavior separates them from God so much that they give up on God entirely. After all, the point of the law is to show that it's impossible to merit salvation. It's even harder when we add in more recently-invented vices like smoking and using plastic grocery bags. What's a poor sinner to do but accept that they are going to hell?

But what happens if some poor guy who thinks he's going to hell for watching Harry Potter happens to meet a minister of God while in line to see the latest Potter movie? Suddenly that barrier between God and man is broken, that curtain is ripped, and he can begin to believe that God can love him regardless of his taste in movies. I happen to know believers who are passionate christians today because ministers of God met them evenly - smoking a cigarette or listening to hip-hop music or just being normal human beings instead of some untouchable celestial entities. It's important, before condemning someone for doing something that we ourselves do not do, to consider that that person may have a different ministry. God may want to save the Naruto fan just as strongly as he wants to save the Gundam fan.

I'm not saying that you should go run out and start smoking, drinking, and watching/reading any form of entertainment you can find that seems "unchristian" just to do so. Use wisdom. If an action would build one bridge and burn another, you do need to double-check that you've got the correct plan of action - there may be a better way to build that bridge.

Still, even if God never has you watch any show or movie or anime featuring witchcraft or anything else remotely objectionable (working with the Amish, maybe), that doesn't mean that it can't be another Christian's witness to be a smoking, drinking, Harry-Potter-watching biker. Maybe they're called to turn the Hell's Angels to the cause of heaven, and they'd never be received in a priest's collar. You don't know what God has called everyone to do, and judging them out of your own ignorance will leave you cutting yourself off needlessly from a part of the body of Christ. Love God, love your fellow believers, and trust the Lord to keep His people in line with His will.

This!

[minakichan]

Watching Harry Potter no more makes me a witch than watching a McDonalds commercial makes me a hamburger.

Can I quote you on that FOREVER?

[Radical Dreamer]

Watching Harry Potter no more makes me a witch than watching a McDonalds commercial makes me a hamburger.



That said, I think we've already covered differing strengths and reality versus fantasy. I think that leaves one more point - our witness.

While sometimes our witness will require us to give something up, it may also require us to engage in activities outside of our norm. Some people will only listen to someone who abstains from all the "naughty" things in the world, but not everybody is like that. Most of the world has heard the message of sin and how their behavior separates them from God so much that they give up on God entirely. After all, the point of the law is to show that it's impossible to merit salvation. It's even harder when we add in more recently-invented vices like smoking and using plastic grocery bags. What's a poor sinner to do but accept that they are going to hell?

But what happens if some poor guy who thinks he's going to hell for watching Harry Potter happens to meet a minister of God while in line to see the latest Potter movie? Suddenly that barrier between God and man is broken, that curtain is ripped, and he can begin to believe that God can love him regardless of his taste in movies. I happen to know believers who are passionate christians today because ministers of God met them evenly - smoking a cigarette or listening to hip-hop music or just being normal human beings instead of some untouchable celestial entities. It's important, before condemning someone for doing something that we ourselves do not do, to consider that that person may have a different ministry. God may want to save the Naruto fan just as strongly as he wants to save the Gundam fan.

I'm not saying that you should go run out and start smoking, drinking, and watching/reading any form of entertainment you can find that seems "unchristian" just to do so. Use wisdom. If an action would build one bridge and burn another, you do need to double-check that you've got the correct plan of action - there may be a better way to build that bridge.

Still, even if God never has you watch any show or movie or anime featuring witchcraft or anything else remotely objectionable (working with the Amish, maybe), that doesn't mean that it can't be another Christian's witness to be a smoking, drinking, Harry-Potter-watching biker. Maybe they're called to turn the Hell's Angels to the cause of heaven, and they'd never be received in a priest's collar. You don't know what God has called everyone to do, and judging them out of your own ignorance will leave you cutting yourself off needlessly from a part of the body of Christ. Love God, love your fellow believers, and trust the Lord to keep His people in line with His will.

I'm pretty sure this entire post is the best thing to be said in this thread so far, and I agree 110%. Very well said.

[Paul]

I have to agree that Anime-4-life has it nailed down.

Everything has to be put in perspective, I think. The way I always see it is like this: If it is a sin to watch a movie with witchcraft (we'll use Harry Potter as an example)-then so also it is a sin to watch C.S. Lewis's "The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe.", because it also uses magic and witchcraft through out the movie. Then perhaps we should just not watch anything in the media at all that portrays sex, violence, murder, lying, cheating, stealing, and the list goes on, and on, and with that in mind lets just sell our televisions. Because if watching a movie with witchcraft is a sin, so is everything else. Right?

Sounds overbearing and rediculous huh?

Well, I am also an AD&D gamer and I love roleplaying games. But I haven't ran a character since I got saved. Not because I felt it was a sin, but because it has an appearance of sin in the Christian community. I played with people who played a game. It's your turn, make your move, role the dice if you have to, either you win the roll or you don't. It wasn't the game but people who made it bad.

It's the same way with Anime and Manga. Anime has a bad rap. We all know it. There are some people I have to spend 20 minutes to get them to understand it's not the art form but the artist who draws it. Then they can grasp the idea the administrators of our church allow me to bring Anime into the church world to teach kids the bible. That's part of the reason why we are here at CAA. A private community of Christians that love this art form, banded together for encouragement and support, and why I love coming here.

I know I said alot, now let me close it up. Harry Potter is a movie. So is The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe. AD&D is nothing more than a roleplaying game for grown ups who could never get over the adventures of knights in shining armor they had as children in sandboxes in kindegarten school. Christian Anime and Manga is nothing more than an artstyle originating in Japan, except Christians are working hard to create good clean art, expressing themselves with art which has taken the world by storm.

Now, in the New Testament, let me propose this. Paul talked about being a stumbling block. In other words, if you are going to eat something (we'll use a piece of cake), and you know someone else who believes that what you are eating is a sin(a person who can't because they are trying to diet to lose weight), then you should not eat it in front of them because it is a potential stumbling block for them. But wait until they have gone home or are not around, then eat the cake.

I do not think that God, is going to judge us because we watch something with witchcraft in it. Unless we use it to cause someone to fall.

Now: How can you be a Christian and like Anime art? It's easy, it's art, nothing more or nothing less. How can you watch a movie or read a book with witchcraft and still be a Christian? It's easy, it's only a book a movie. Nothing more, nothing less. It's what we do with it as Christians that determine if it becomes sin to us and in God's eyes.

I'm going to shut up.

Paul

[Lilac#18]

Watching Harry Potter no more makes me a witch than watching a McDonalds commercial makes me a hamburger.



That said, I think we've already covered differing strengths and reality versus fantasy. I think that leaves one more point - our witness.

While sometimes our witness will require us to give something up, it may also require us to engage in activities outside of our norm. Some people will only listen to someone who abstains from all the "naughty" things in the world, but not everybody is like that. Most of the world has heard the message of sin and how their behavior separates them from God so much that they give up on God entirely. After all, the point of the law is to show that it's impossible to merit salvation. It's even harder when we add in more recently-invented vices like smoking and using plastic grocery bags. What's a poor sinner to do but accept that they are going to hell?

But what happens if some poor guy who thinks he's going to hell for watching Harry Potter happens to meet a minister of God while in line to see the latest Potter movie? Suddenly that barrier between God and man is broken, that curtain is ripped, and he can begin to believe that God can love him regardless of his taste in movies. I happen to know believers who are passionate christians today because ministers of God met them evenly - smoking a cigarette or listening to hip-hop music or just being normal human beings instead of some untouchable celestial entities. It's important, before condemning someone for doing something that we ourselves do not do, to consider that that person may have a different ministry. God may want to save the Naruto fan just as strongly as he wants to save the Gundam fan.

I'm not saying that you should go run out and start smoking, drinking, and watching/reading any form of entertainment you can find that seems "unchristian" just to do so. Use wisdom. If an action would build one bridge and burn another, you do need to double-check that you've got the correct plan of action - there may be a better way to build that bridge.

Still, even if God never has you watch any show or movie or anime featuring witchcraft or anything else remotely objectionable (working with the Amish, maybe), that doesn't mean that it can't be another Christian's witness to be a smoking, drinking, Harry-Potter-watching biker. Maybe they're called to turn the Hell's Angels to the cause of heaven, and they'd never be received in a priest's collar. You don't know what God has called everyone to do, and judging them out of your own ignorance will leave you cutting yourself off needlessly from a part of the body of Christ. Love God, love your fellow believers, and trust the Lord to keep His people in line with His will.

I have to agree that Anime-4-life has it nailed down.

Everything has to be put in perspective, I think. The way I always see it is like this: If it is a sin to watch a movie with witchcraft (we'll use Harry Potter as an example)-then so also it is a sin to watch C.S. Lewis's "The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe.", because it also uses magic and witchcraft through out the movie. Then perhaps we should just not watch anything in the media at all that portrays sex, violence, murder, lying, cheating, stealing, and the list goes on, and on, and with that in mind lets just sell our televisions. Because if watching a movie with witchcraft is a sin, so is everything else. Right?

Sounds overbearing and rediculous huh?

Well, I am also an AD&D gamer and I love roleplaying games. But I haven't ran a character since I got saved. Not because I felt it was a sin, but because it has an appearance of sin in the Christian community. I played with people who played a game. It's your turn, make your move, role the dice if you have to, either you win the roll or you don't. It wasn't the game but people who made it bad.

It's the same way with Anime and Manga. Anime has a bad rap. We all know it. There are some people I have to spend 20 minutes to get them to understand it's not the art form but the artist who draws it. Then they can grasp the idea the administrators of our church allow me to bring Anime into the church world to teach kids the bible. That's part of the reason why we are here at CAA. A private community of Christians that love this art form, banded together for encouragement and support, and why I love coming here.

I know I said alot, now let me close it up. Harry Potter is a movie. So is The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe. AD&D is nothing more than a roleplaying game for grown ups who could never get over the adventures of knights in shining armor they had as children in sandboxes in kindegarten school. Christian Anime and Manga is nothing more than an artstyle originating in Japan, except Christians are working hard to create good clean art, expressing themselves with art which has taken the world by storm.

Now, in the New Testament, let me propose this. Paul talked about being a stumbling block. In other words, if you are going to eat something (we'll use a piece of cake), and you know someone else who believes that what you are eating is a sin(a person who can't because they are trying to diet to lose weight), then you should not eat it in front of them because it is a potential stumbling block for them. But wait until they have gone home or are not around, then eat the cake.

I do not think that God, is going to judge us because we watch something with witchcraft in it. Unless we use it to cause someone to fall.

Now: How can you be a Christian and like Anime art? It's easy, it's art, nothing more or nothing less. How can you watch a movie or read a book with witchcraft and still be a Christian? It's easy, it's only a book a movie. Nothing more, nothing less. It's what we do with it as Christians that determine if it becomes sin to us and in God's eyes.

I'm going to shut up.

Paul

I agree 100% with these posts.

[Nate]

Paul talked about being a stumbling block. In other words, if you are going to eat something (we'll use a piece of cake), and you know someone else who believes that what you are eating is a sin(a person who can't because they are trying to diet to lose weight), then you should not eat it in front of them because it is a potential stumbling block for them. But wait until they have gone home or are not around, then eat the cake.

I want to clarify this a bit. When Paul says a stumbling block, he's not saying "If the person will get mad at you, don't do it." That's not what he's saying at all.

In your example, let's say, if someone believes eating that cake is a sin, I'd eat it in front of them and not care. Why? Making them mad doesn't count as a stumbling block.

What Paul means by stumbling block is this. Say the person believes eating the cake is a sin. I eat the cake in front of them. Now, they still think it's a sin, but they say "Man, he's eating that cake...maybe I can sneak a little bit..."

THAT is a stumbling block. Stumbling block means tempting the person to do something they think is a sin. Not making them upset. This is why I'll happily play D&D and if a Christian sits there and goes "That's a sin, you're a horrible person!" I will tell them to cram it and keep playing. However, if a Christian goes "That's a sin, but it looks kind of fun..." then I wouldn't play it around them. I wouldn't want to be responsible for them doing something they think is sinful.

I just wanted to explain in a bit more detail about what stumbling block really means. Because a lot of Christians abuse that verse so they can sit there and say "I think it's a sin, so you can't do it around me because it offends me!" which isn't the case. The verse is there so a person can go "I think that's a sin and I might want to do it if you do it around me, so please don't."

[Mave]

I just wanted to explain in a bit more detail about what stumbling block really means. Because a lot of Christians abuse that verse so they can sit there and say "I think it's a sin, so you can't do it around me because it offends me!" which isn't the case. The verse is there so a person can go "I think that's a sin and I might want to do it if you do it around me, so please don't."

I think I agree to a certain degree. On one hand, you have self-righteous folks who pridefully go around making you feel bad for offending them. On the other hand, you have sincere folks who really just feel uncomfortable and are humbly requesting you not to do it.

Nonetheless, after reading this thread, I was reminded of what CAA is all about - A safe place to discuss things like movies, anime, music and other things I wouldn't typically share openly whether in an extremely conservative or secular community.

Whether one ultimately choose to watch or not watch, I still feel blessed that we have the opportunity to discuss it with fellow Christians and have the chance to think through our choices.

....that, as opposed to closetting up and cutting off from the fellowship, believing that entertainment and Christian faith are 100% incompatible. Know what I mean?

[Reon]

Thanks for your advices. My sister just thinks that christians shouldn't watch/read anything with witchcraft. My guess is that she thinks the act of all forms of witchcraft will influence, harm and/or bring curses on people. She doesn't want her kids or any christian to watch/read any book/movie/show with that.

Let them have the knowledge of witchcraft, not the influence.

All I know is that I want to build up my mind soul & body in the way of the Lord as with my children. I'm VERY careful with what I watch because anything I see, hear etc influences me. You can't say "It doesn't influence me" when the environment were in shapes us. Just continuously pray that God opens your eyes to what you need to see on a day to day basis. If it convicts you, it pry has good reason to. Be careful =) Keep your eyes fixed on him. Does Christ not deserve those for whom he suffered and died? Give him all the glory, worship him, adore, love him with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. A person on this forum linked this video, found it on an old thread in their sig pry from about 2 years ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itSAQvy4x6o

Found a ton of verses about "Flee From Works of Darkness"
[quote]

[SIZE="4"][font="Century Gothic"]FLEE FROM THE WORKS OF DARKNESS[/font][/SIZE]

"But thou, O man of God, flee these things]

[SIZE="7"][color="Cyan"]@[/color][/SIZE] [font="Comic Sans MS"][color="Lime"][SIZE="3"]LILAC[/SIZE] [/color][/font]- [font="Comic Sans MS"]Why aren't you a practicing Christian? If you believe in the Bible and everything in it, understand the wages of sin is death... That light has no fellowship with darkness and that "No branch can bear fruit by itself, it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me" John 15:4. I hated Christianity, I hated the Church growing up... believed in all of it. It took me falling flat face on the ground literally crying out to God in my hour of need that he heard me and came to me. Hes opened my eyes to things I never imagined and little by little I'm understanding why he deserves all the glory.[/font]

(Sin always has consequences. Period. I wish I would have further grasped that sooner. This verse describes where I feel like my life is finally going now that God became a part of it - I was pulled out of deep waters (dark, unknowing the own dangers I was in, waters).)PROVERBS 20:5 The purposes [SIZE="1"](counsel/motive/plan)[/SIZE] of a man's heart are deep waters, but a man of understanding draws them out.

[color="Gray"][font="Courier New"][SIZE="1"]THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH[/SIZE][/font][/color]

[ShiroiHikari]

I just wanted to explain in a bit more detail about what stumbling block really means. Because a lot of Christians abuse that verse so they can sit there and say "I think it's a sin, so you can't do it around me because it offends me!" which isn't the case. The verse is there so a person can go "I think that's a sin and I might want to do it if you do it around me, so please don't."

This is a really good point! Never thought of it that way before, myself. Making someone angry or offended isn't making them sin, because anger itself is not a sin. If making people angry or offended is being a stumbling block, then there's no hope for any of us because you can't please everybody all the time.

I guess indirectly you could cause someone to sin by making them angry, but what they do with their anger is not your responsibility, but their own. It's not the same as causing someone to "stumble".

Also, I think if someone has a weakness, then they should be able to politely tell people about it and not just get all mad when we do something to cause them to stumble. How are we to keep from being a stumbling block if we don't know what that person's convictions and weaknesses are?

[Lilac#18]

[SIZE="7"][color="Cyan"]@[/color][/SIZE][color="Lime"][SIZE="3"]LILAC[/SIZE] [/color]Why aren't you a practicing Christian? If you believe in the Bible and everything in it.

I will answer your question in another thread. Not in the general section, but in the prayer room some other time, O.k?:)

[Momo-P]

For the most part I agreed with what everyone said, but thanks to that comment about satan (how watching a fictional story with him winning is ok because it's fiction), I have to say this.

Although you easily could watch a story where evil wins and not be affected by it (though like someone else said, why would you even WANT to watch it?), I think it's the source of the magic that causes it to be good or evil. For example, why did the men and women back then rely on witchcraft?

- To obtain information regarding the future
- To communicate with the dead
- To gain power
- To earn money (while some witches probably contacted actual demons, most of them were probably phonies who only did it to earn money)

Now is any of this evil? Of course not! Even money and power isn't evil if it isn't abused! So why would God hate witchcraft? Well why does God hate us worshipping false gods? Because they aren't real--they didn't make us, they don't love us, they aren't even alive! They've done nothing to deserve attention! The same can be said for witchcraft. God gave many prophets the ability to foretell future events, He also gave many of His followers insanely great power and wealth. The main issue (from what I can tell) is not that wanting these thing was wrong, it's just that God didn't like them relying on something other than Him. And really, doesn't that make sense?

Not only does He love us (and therefore will totally listen to our requests and help us in some way), but He has total authority do ANYTHING you ask. Even things our minds can't think up! Plus it's not like you're actually going to get any REAL help from a witch. She has no actual power, so anything she says and does will be of no use. Going by this, I don't know if watching a movie where satan wins could be comparable. The whole point of the story is that evil succeeds--that's not good. On the other hand however, you could have a story where someone has magical powers, but they come from a good place. Most anime says the character is either naturally born with their weird powers or they receive them from some creature who was naturally born with them. In either case, wouldn't GOD have given them? That's like saying Joseph's ability to understand dreams was evil because it was unnatural. Since God allowed it however, we know it was cool. To me, the reason witchcraft is wrong is because we're ignoring God when we should go to Him. In a story however...eh. If the character is just born with them, that's like our ability to walk. You can use it for good or evil. ^^; You also have your fake worlds with their fake gods. How can if be wrong to not rely on Jesus when Jesus never existed to them?

I know some people may not agree with all that I said, but this is just another way I suppose you can look at things. ._. Also it's always important to note: God's not a moron. He KNOWS why you watch stuff and why you enjoy it. If you watch Bewitched, I'm pretty sure He understands it's because it's funny and also because you like the idea of being able to do things you normally can't. Not because you wanna ignore Him.

[yexy]

Wow...I've had these questions myself for some time...reading this thread has helped me out a -lot-. I'm really glad I joined here. ^_^

[~darkelfgirl~]

[quote="Momo-P (post: 1313632)"]For the most part I agreed with what everyone said, but thanks to that comment about satan (how watching a fictional story with him winning is ok because it's fiction), I have to say this.

Although you easily could watch a story where evil wins and not be affected by it (though like someone else said, why would you even WANT to watch it?), I think it's the source of the magic that causes it to be good or evil. For example, why did the men and women back then rely on witchcraft?

- To obtain information regarding the future
- To communicate with the dead
- To gain power
- To earn money (while some witches probably contacted actual demons, most of them were probably phonies who only did it to earn money)

Now is any of this evil? Of course not! Even money and power isn't evil if it isn't abused! So why would God hate witchcraft? Well why does God hate us worshipping false gods? Because they aren't real--they didn't make us, they don't love us, they aren't even alive! They've done nothing to deserve attention! The same can be said for witchcraft. God gave many prophets the ability to foretell future events, He also gave many of His followers insanely great power and wealth. The main issue (from what I can tell) is not that wanting these thing was wrong, it's just that God didn't like them relying on something other than Him. And really, doesn't that make sense?

Not only does He love us (and therefore will totally listen to our requests and help us in some way), but He has total authority do ANYTHING you ask. Even things our minds can't think up! Plus it's not like you're actually going to get any REAL help from a witch. She has no actual power, so anything she says and does will be of no use. Going by this, I don't know if watching a movie where satan wins could be comparable. The whole point of the story is that evil succeeds--that's not good. On the other hand however, you could have a story where someone has magical powers, but they come from a good place. Most anime says the character is either naturally born with their weird powers or they receive them from some creature who was naturally born with them. In either case, wouldn't GOD have given them? That's like saying Joseph's ability to understand dreams was evil because it was unnatural. Since God allowed it however, we know it was cool. To me, the reason witchcraft is wrong is because we're ignoring God when we should go to Him. In a story however...eh. If the character is just born with them, that's like our ability to walk. You can use it for good or evil. ^^]



I agree. Yes, it doesn't help you, but it sure has the potential to hurt you. I grew up in a country where certain people practice a certain type of witchcraft and use that in order to hurt others. Not cool.

I believe true witchcraft involves the invocation and action (to carry out 'spells') of spirits aka demons, not 'wave the wand and insert Latin here' hocus-pocus.