Make up and doing hair is a no-no?

[Momo-P]

I know this is a weird question, but the other day I was purchasing some foundation and suddenly remembered something...

Isn't there a passage where God tells the people "don't paint your faces like the egyptians"? Because I almost swear up and down there was one and now I'm kind of curious what that was refering to and whatnot. ^^;;

Also by extension, there's a passage in the New Testament I always meant to ask about, but never really did since it didn't apply to me. It's one that talks about how women shouldn't braid their hair and wear jewelry or something? Now personally I don't wear jewelry (cept my cross) and the last time I had my hair braided was...I have no clue, but I'd still like to know what this was all talking about. Because many Christian women (even ones who worry about all sorts of things being "evil") even wear make up and braid their hair so...what the heck?

Is this a cultural thing? I mean if you wanna get technical, most people considering braiding your hair nowadays as something for little girls and old-fashioned women (unless it's some fancy twisted special braid--like for a wedding or prom), so to even SAY that...it just sounds stupid nowadays. I know my mom also mentioned how she though the egyptian face painting had to deal with their gods and whatnot, but I have no clue and I definitely am not checking google. One of the last times I did that, I found pages telling me "birthdays are satantic because you're celebrating your age" and...ya. I don't want to take chances of what I could run into. .__.;

[Danderson]

I think I know the verses ur talkin about....don't know the refrences, but I know what ur talking about.

I think what it's saying is don't make what u wear define who u are. Or, better yet, if these things become more important in ur life then ur relationship with Jesus (meaning if they become a stumbling block) maybe u shouldn't wear them?....

I don't think we're commanded not to be "presentable", but what I think these passages are baisically saying, "think about what ur wearing? What is the motive? R U depending too much on these things to make u beautiful rather then depending on the inner beauty given to u from God's love?"

[Esoteric]

The verse is basically about vanity. Back in the day, fancy hair was normally done by servants and jewelry, perfume and makeup meant you were rich. Church was not the place to flaunt your wealth for others to see. It was a place to be humble and unified with your brethren, not to show off.
It's fine to wear makeup and nice clothes, as long as you aren't doing it out of pride or make others pay jealous attention to you.

[ShiroiHikari]

I think...that I don't know where these verses are. Hold on...

Okay, there are a few mentions by Paul in the New Testament about not braiding hair and all that. What Paul was saying is that true beauty comes from within. You have to remember that these were Paul's opinions and not mandate from God; note that he says "I want":

8I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing.

9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

2when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight.

As for the Egyptians, well, they were pagan, so why would a Christian want to paint themselves like an Egyptian? It has nothing to do with our modern makeup.

[LadyRushia]

Esoteric and everyone else here is right. Just in general, don't assume that the things you read in the Bible literally apply today. That can lead to you putting your own meaning into a passage which can be dangerous. Remember that Paul is writing to 1st century Christians, which means that we here in the 21st century do not understand what he means right away. This principle goes for the Bible as a whole as well. It's better that you're asking about things BEFORE you believe a certain way though.

Yeah, in this case the issue is vanity. Make-up and jewelry had a different meaning and purpose back then than they do now.

[ShiroiHikari]

Just in general, don't assume that the things you read in the Bible literally apply today.

True dat.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Ditto everyone for the most part- careful with that "don't apply today stuff" and "Paul's own opinion" since that's kind of a slippery slope to making the Bible an opinion...

Basically, we're told not to flaunt what we've got. Kinda like how most younger people look like they're always in costume... just no.

[Nate]

I think the thing that Nette pointed out is, whenever something in the Bible was Paul's opinion (and thus not binding) is that Paul would say "I think" or "I believe" or "I say this." Whenever Paul doesn't use those phrases, it can't be interpreted to be his opinion and thus he's laying down what God says.

[LadyRushia]

Ditto everyone for the most part- careful with that "don't apply today stuff" and "Paul's own opinion" since that's kind of a slippery slope to making the Bible an opinion...

I meant that there are cultural considerations that need to be taken into account that involve the way the Bible is put together and what it meant to the people who received the Word at the time. There are things in the Bible that we don't readily understand because we don't have the mindset or customs of someone living back in Biblical times. Without this understanding, we can easily misinterpret things.

[Shao Feng-Li]

True, true. And he did often address specific problems in various churches at times.

[minakichan]

BIBLE, YOU ARE CONFUSING D:

I don't know if I would say that people who interpret "make up and doing hair is a no-no" are necessarily wrong though... I mean, if the Bible is already up to a lot of interpretation, then interpretations can't really be deemed totally right or wrong, right?

Or iono.

CONFUSING AGAIN. D:

[chibiphonebooth]

i think a lot of times, the bible likes to over emphasize things to prove a point. For example, when it says if your left hand sins, cut it off. I think that its kinda an exaggeration to prove a point. so maybe here he might be saying don't feed into vanity through make up and stuff. a lot of it also has to do with the time period. as people have mentioned earlier, makeup and jewelry was a sign of wealth. now, you can buy makeup for a buck. but if you are putting on make up and doing your hair because its the only way you feel secure in yourself, then maybe you should put down that and examine your heart. "Do i only feel pretty when i wear makeup?"

know what i mean?

[sharien chan]

i think a lot of times, the bible likes to over emphasize things to prove a point. For example, when it says if your left hand sins, cut it off. I think that its kinda an exaggeration to prove a point.

Aww Savannah, you're quoting your dad's sermon on Sunday! ^______^ but wasn't it the right hand sins? XDDD you're totally a lefty.

But yes I think this passage was talking more about vanity than just wanting to look nice.

[Shao Feng-Li]

BIBLE, YOU ARE CONFUSING D:

I don't know if I would say that people who interpret "make up and doing hair is a no-no" are necessarily wrong though... I mean, if the Bible is already up to a lot of interpretation, then interpretations can't really be deemed totally right or wrong, right?

Or iono.

CONFUSING AGAIN. D:

There's a bit that we just don't understand. Like a lot of stuff in Revelation is a bit vague to us and there are different ideas about it.

For the most part, the Bible speaks clearly to us. As long as we take what it says in its context, it's not too confusing. Obviously, if someone read the Bible and concluded that Christ was an actual lamb (you know, animal), that's easily a wrong interpretation. Most problems come when man tries to use his puny brain (thinking he's so high and mighty) to interpret the Bible rather than using scripture to interpret scripture.

i think a lot of times, the bible likes to over emphasize things to prove a point. For example, when it says if your left hand sins, cut it off. I think that its kinda an exaggeration to prove a point. so maybe here he might be saying don't feed into vanity through make up and stuff. a lot of it also has to do with the time period. as people have mentioned earlier, makeup and jewelry was a sign of wealth. now, you can buy makeup for a buck. but if you are putting on make up and doing your hair because its the only way you feel secure in yourself, then maybe you should put down that and examine your heart. "Do i only feel pretty when i wear makeup?"

QFT

People ought to notice you first, not see your hair and make-up coming a mile away. Or think that you bought your personality at a fad store like Hot Topic, lol

[Momo-P]

As for the Egyptians, well, they were pagan, so why would a Christian want to paint themselves like an Egyptian? It has nothing to do with our modern makeup.

Well all and all I feel like wearing my make up would be ok, but I suppose the egyptian thing freaks me out because I don't think their "face painting" is much different from today.

Outlining eyes in black? Dark red lips? Coloring above the eye-lids? I mean, face paint or make up, it's all the same thing. Personally I only wear foundation really (and very rarely something on my lips), but because I keep feeling as if this passage exists, I really wish I could find where it was and exactly what it spoke of. Because otherwise I can't see how I would've just "made this up" in my mind. ^^;

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Here's a question for you: What defines something as "Egyptian"? Is it having x out of y criteria on your face?

If you have foundation on your face is okay, but then suddenly adding black eyeliner is bad? That's a very arbitrary distinction between the two and I don't think God plays that way.

[Momo-P]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. If you're saying "so you still wear foundation because that's different?" um...no. I actually WANT to wear it (because I have scars on my face that bother me), but so far I refuse to unless I know for certain...

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I'm asking what the difference is between a little bit of foundation (which in itself isn't very Egyptian-like) and painting a clown-face on your mask. If you answer "the quantity of makeup" then you're right. That's the problem. God doesn't judge things based off quantity of things. He doesn't tell someone with gluttony that "you ate three more tacos than the other glutton so you committed a greater sin".

Wearing foundation is not immoral. That being the case, drenching your face with cosmetics logically cannot be immoral either.

[chibiphonebooth]

I think though what you are doing, Momo, is getting yourself too wrapped up in if you are doing this or this right.

God isn't going, "oh tsk tsk, you are wearing eyeliner. you are no longer a christian." Being a christian is really what is in your heart, not how you look or how many rules you can possibly follow in the bible. If anything, i think one can get too caught up in only following rules that they completely miss the love, grace, and acceptance of God. (and i'm not saying you are, i'm just pointing this out.)

and again, i'm not saying to totally disregard everything in the bible. I'm not saying that at all. But your salvation doesn't depend on if you decide to wear mascara that day or not.

You have to take in account the historical background of verses, and a lot of times, people totally disregard that aspect. Back then, Egyptians were pagans. nobody but pagans/egyptians looked like egyptians. So Paul said, "i don't want you to look like egyptians cause then people will think you are pagans."

Think of it this way. and this might be getting a little on the controvertial side or whatever, sorry if it is. but the KKK wear white outfits with those pointy hat things, and holes cut out for eyes, right? You wouldn't walk around dressed in that outfit and not be part of the KKK, right? It would be weird if you dressed like that and then said you were a christian and condoned what the KKK did. people would be really confused.

So just like that, if christians back in the day dressed and looked the way pagans did, then it would be confusing.

Now a days, there's no real "distinguishing factor" between christians and non-christians. If there was, i'm sure that God would be going, "don't do that cause thats what everyone else does."

[Ashley]

I don't know if I would say that people who interpret "make up and doing hair is a no-no" are necessarily wrong though... I mean, if the Bible is already up to a lot of interpretation, then interpretations can't really be deemed totally right or wrong, right?

I disagree; some interpretations are better than others. For example, if someone were to look at Jesus' saying, "love your neighbor" and say, "that means Jesus is all for hippie-style free love," that is a totally wrong interpretation. It does not fit with the context (of the book or of the Bible as a whole) nor does it fit with the historical context, or the grammatical one.

This idea that interpretation = opinion = no wrong answers doesn't add up. There IS a science behind biblical criticism, which helps us determine which interpretations are better than others.

Now of course, there is some wiggle room; I'm not saying my particular views on say, Revelation or the Lord's Supper are all-exclusive. But not every interpretation is equally valid.

As for the ACTUAL QUESTION:
first off, I can't find this verse in any concordance or topical Bible, so it's hard to say this for sure, but it's entirely possible that this is actually a reference to make-up put on for pagan rituals. Just as the Corinthians struggled with eating meat sacrificed to idols, I think the issue here is not the item itself (in this case, make-up), but the attitude and purpose behind it.

As for braiding hair, Esoteric is right. It was a sign of vanity, and of oppression of the poor. I don't think God has anything against looking nice, but I do think He has a problem with exploiting others and showing off wealth--just read Amos sometime.

[Mithrandir]

I always just figured Paul was saying, "You guys really shouldn't paint your faces, because you'll draw attention to yourself and detract from your witness." Considering how far away Egypt was from there (remember, no cars, planes, etc), an Egyptian walking around their town would stand out prominently. I think this applies to "modest dress" as well - it's a two part point. First, don't cause your brothers to stumble by encouraging lustful thoughts. Second, don't draw attention to yourselves by wearing skimpy outfits.

On a side note, a very conservative pastor I knew a long time ago was once asked what he though about makeup. After a lot of thinking his reply was: "Even an old barn needs a new coat of paint every now and then."

[Reon]

BIBLE, YOU ARE CONFUSING D:

I don't know if I would say that people who interpret "make up and doing hair is a no-no" are necessarily wrong though... I mean, if the Bible is already up to a lot of interpretation, then interpretations can't really be deemed totally right or wrong, right?

Or iono.

CONFUSING AGAIN. D:

1 Corinthians 14:33 [a][color="DeepSkyBlue"] For God is not the author of confusion[/color]
Minakichan, I think what you said is a great example of why we need to rely on God. When you seek God, you'll find God (Jeremiah 29:11-13) - If you look at that verse in Jeremiah its talking about God's plans to prosper you. I tie that in with this -are you putting God first in all you do, is the make up and your possessions not being idols, making you who you are, are you not convicted by them?
Mark 12: 30 [color="DeepSkyBlue"]Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength[/color].
An awesome verse, if you think your truly doing Mark 12:30 I don't think make-up would be a problem. If make-up is stopping you from loving God with all your heart... thats a different story. The verse Matthew 19:24, clearly doesn't seem to mean if your rich you don't have God, I think its just saying its harder (but Matthew 19:26 "[color="DeepSkyBlue"]with God all things are possible[/color]."

One of my favorite things to pray is "God open my eyes." Since the day I actually gave my life to God, verses sometimes seem to surpass anything that I would have seen on my own, as if revelation given to me by God. Even when you think you've been given a revelation from God you have to be careful though, which is why this verse is one of my all time favorites and I'll pry be saying it multiple times in the forums as I do with myself and friends.

[font="Book Antiqua"]

1 Corinthians 8:2-3 [font="Arial Narrow"](NIV)[/font]
[SIZE="5"]The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know.[/SIZE]
[SIZE="6"]But the man who [B]loves God is known by God.[/SIZE][/font]

Aka: You can't be certain of anything, but if you love God - you'll be known by him. =)
God is love, abide in him! I love the feeling I get when I think of that.

Is makeup a problem in your life (as in, does it keep you from getting closer to God)?
I think thats a question you have to ask yourself which you've done and on top of that sought counsel =) Honor God in everything you do.


OTHER:
Here are two websites, one that says to me not all use of makeup is sinful (which from what I've personally read in the Bible seems to make sense) and one against. We're all different and are taught in different methods by God (whether it be Moses and the burning bush, to Jonah getting eaten by a whale, to God calling your name out to you in the middle of the night) - heres part of a quote form the first website "And when they have found Him, God will show them the things that need to be changed." As a personal example, I know I have to avoid certain things because of my past and when I do them I feel as though I'm sinning. Others would feel differently, but it convicts me and I don't want anything between God and I.
Seek God with everything and let him show you what needs to be changed. If you want me to find the verses I've read on conviction etc let me know.

First Website on Makeup
Second Website Against Makeup (which I personally disagree with - maybe God will change my heart. The things I think I know, I do not yet know as I ought to know. So I understand God is not the author of confusion according to the Bible and I'll do my best to love him.

God isn't going, "oh tsk tsk, you are wearing eyeliner. you are no longer a christian." Being a christian is really what is in your heart, not how you look or how many rules you can possibly follow in the bible. If anything, i think one can get too caught up in only following rules that they completely miss the love, grace, and acceptance of God. (and i'm not saying you are, i'm just pointing this out.)

Completely agree. When I first gave my life to God one of my friends told me this after telling me about the head of a household, what it means to be a man according to the Bible etc. "Relax." If you both TRULY fear & love God and seek his will in all you do I really do think God will put you on the straight and narrow.

[chibiphonebooth]

Second Website Against Makeup (which I personally disagree with - maybe God will change my heart. The things I think I know, I do not yet know as I ought to know. So I understand God is not the author of confusion according to the Bible and I'll do my best to love him.

agreed with this, disagree with the website. XD

i skimmed over it, cause they just went on and on and on lol.
I didn't like the article though. a lot of it was guilt tripping and implying that if you wore makeup, you were like a prostitute.

The first women to wear makeup were prostitutes! Changing one’s appearance by facial paint is a custom ancient prostitutes have dictated to the modern age. Cosmetics were nothing more than a device used by harlots to, in effect, teach men to break the Seventh Commandment. This is the message of history—yet the whole world lies in ignorance of these facts!

alright, so yah, maybe makeup and jewelry were worn by prostitutes and such. i still stand by what i said earlier. its because only that type of ideal was worn by a select amount of people.

I feel this gets way too caught up in the technicalities of right and wrong, yes and no. If you follow God with all your heart, he will point out things for you that he might want you to change.

The bible also says men should never cut their beards or trim their hair. yet I've yet to see any 4 page article on that. The problem with these verses is people can pick and choose which verses they like and which they don't like.
You can get so caught up in watching your every step and making sure every. single. movement. is correct- that you've become so overwhelmed and you shut yourself off to hearing what God is really saying or what he's speaking to you. Not intentionally, of course, but your mind can start whirling with omg am i doing this right am i doing that right AHH I DID THIS WRONG oh no i have to be extra careful!!! In the meantime, God might be whispering, "its okay, it's okay if you mess up. Just follow me, keep your eyes on me, not on your feet. if you watch Me, and Me only, I will lead you to where you are supposed to go."

This is an incredible series of verses. God directly likens Israel and Judah (seeking allies among the nations) to harlots who have sent for men after painting their faces—exactly like whores awaiting their next customers. This is a clear, unmistakable condemnation of the use of eye makeup. God next issues a sentence, just like a modern court, to all who have committed spiritual crimes (sins) in His sight.

thank you, article, for comparing me to a whore. XD

when it comes down to it, the reason behind all of it is vanity and purposeful seduction. I put on makeup not to seduce guys. I'm not going, "oh if i apply some eyeliner tonight, i'm totally going to get that hot guy at my job~"
God knows our hearts. God knows where we lie and sit on subjects like these. if anything, pray about it, and let God convict you. don't let articles or what a pastor says give you a firm answer. Because the truth is, they were written by men. and even the godliest of men can still slip up time to time. God is the one you want the real answers from.

[ShiroiHikari]

You have to take in account the historical background of verses, and a lot of times, people totally disregard that aspect. Back then, Egyptians were pagans. nobody but pagans/egyptians looked like egyptians. So Paul said, "i don't want you to look like egyptians cause then people will think you are pagans."

Think of it this way. and this might be getting a little on the controvertial side or whatever, sorry if it is. but the KKK wear white outfits with those pointy hat things, and holes cut out for eyes, right? You wouldn't walk around dressed in that outfit and not be part of the KKK, right? It would be weird if you dressed like that and then said you were a christian and condoned what the KKK did. people would be really confused.

QFT. This is what I was trying to say earlier, but you put it much better than I did XD

[LadyRushia]

You can get so caught up in watching your every step and making sure every. single. movement. is correct- that you've become so overwhelmed and you shut yourself off to hearing what God is really saying or what he's speaking to you. Not intentionally, of course, but your mind can start whirling with omg am i doing this right am i doing that right AHH I DID THIS WRONG oh no i have to be extra careful!!!

And this is essentially what the Pharisees did. This kind of thinking eventually leads to legalism and those who fall under this miss the point of why the rules even exist. Jesus tells us that the whole essence of the Law and the Prophets is to 1) Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself. Like Savannah said, keep your eyes fixed on God and He will then convict you as He sees fit. God knows what's best for you.

More specifically, just because the original use of make-up may have been bad that doesn't mean that everyone still uses it with the same purposes in mind today. Culture changes over time, and so do things that are used in culture. Personally, I believe that you shouldn't wear make-up if you don't feel good about yourself without it. Otherwise, you might end up relying on it to make you beautiful and you'll miss the inner and natural beauty that God has already given you. Material things, and the use of material things, can't be good or bad for the most part; it's the intent behind the use of those things.

[Reon]

[quote="LadyRushia (post: 1295506)"]And this is essentially what the Pharisees did. This kind of thinking eventually leads to legalism and those who fall under this miss the point of why the rules even exist. Jesus tells us that the whole essence of the Law and the Prophets is to 1) Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself. Like Savannah said, keep your eyes fixed on God and He will then convict you as He sees fit. God knows what's best for you.

More specifically, just because the original use of make-up may have been bad that doesn't mean that everyone still uses it with the same purposes in mind today. Culture changes over time, and so do things that are used in culture. Personally, I believe that you shouldn't wear make-up if you don't feel good about yourself without it. Otherwise, you might end up relying on it to make you beautiful and you'll miss the inner and natural beauty that God has already given you. Material things, and the use of material things, can't be good or bad for the most part]

Kinda reminds me of That Dude's signature =) Love it.
Yeah Chibi the second article was just pages of stuff . . .



[SIZE="3"]EIGHTEEN OR OLDER ONLY[/SIZE]
(unless a moderator on this forum says otherwise)
by Revealing the text/spoiler you are agreeing that your eighteen or older.
[SPOILER]I was doing research on the topic of masturbation and ran into a website called "sexinchrist.com" that misused verses and ended up saying ANAL SEX was ok... Thats the same kind of thing it seems like the second article I posted only in the exact opposite fashion still misusing God's word. LadyRushia the 1-2 you posted was dead on in my book. On top of loving God I think its vital (as the Bible says as well) to fear him. Love your guys thoughts oh so much. As for the topic of masturbation I found this website the most fitting acts17-11.com/dialogs_masturbation.html I'd love your responses. I'm not going to post it elsewhere unless I end up talking with a moderator on it. The topic is talked about in youth groups etc so I think its something that needs to be talked about but whether or not its ok with the forum I'm unsure.

Also if you strongly feel this should be removed immediately send me a private message or call/text 925 413 0844 (California AT&T #) [/SPOILER]

[Mr. SmartyPants]

That website you mentioned is one of the most retarded and asinine websites ever... At first I thought it was a joke... but I'm beginning to doubt that now.

Skimming that website, I can tell that the author(s) look too highly on the human condition. Somewhat of a humanist, if you will. He assumes that men will somehow have the ability to properly have threesomes and watch certain pornographic mediums with a healthy spiritual mindset. Tch, yeah right. It makes more sense to be a full-blown cynic towards the human condition than an idealist.

Further proof that the authors are horrendously stupid and their website is full of crap.

[Reon]

That website you mentioned is one of the most retarded and asinine websites ever... At first I thought it was a joke... but I'm beginning to doubt that now.

Skimming that website, I can tell that the author(s) look too highly on the human condition. Somewhat of a humanist, if you will. He assumes that men will somehow have the ability to properly have threesomes and watch certain pornographic mediums with a healthy spiritual mindset. Tch, yeah right. It makes more sense to be a full-blown cynic towards the human condition than an idealist.

Further proof that the authors are horrendously stupid and their website is full of crap.

Just to clarify your talking about the S.I.C. one correct? & not the acts 17-11. If your talking about the latter (acts 17-11) can you clarify a little bit more.

[Momo-P]

Jesus tells us that the whole essence of the Law and the Prophets is to 1) Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself. Like Savannah said, keep your eyes fixed on God and He will then convict you as He sees fit. God knows what's best for you.

Yanno, it's weird, but I almost totally forgot about that. I mean...I knew God only put the laws out there to make sure we didn't screw up or to remind us "hey, this type of stuff is wrong because...", but I guess I just totally got side tracked on worrying that I spaced it off. ._. Kind of irritating when that happens.

But all and all, I think many of these posts definitely helped guys...I'm still going to pray about it, but seeing how I made it for days without make up, I'm pretty sure I can live without it. It was just more of a "dang, everyone else is covering themselves nicely, I wish I could ._." deal when it was happening. XD Otherwise to get guys? Eh...I actually prayed to God so guys would leave me alone. No human wants to look ugly (seriously, who dresses up with that intention?), but just because I want people to think "wow, she looks nice/pretty" it doesn't mean I'm trying to get into a guy's pants or make some girl hate my guts and feel bad. If anything I'd want to help that girl feel better about herself if I could (since I use to feel that way when I was younger).

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Just to clarify your talking about the S.I.C. one correct? & not the acts 17-11. If your talking about the latter (acts 17-11) can you clarify a little bit more.

The SIC one.