Was I wrong? I need advice...

[ChristianKitsune]

Thank you all for your well-thought out advice... I think now that everything's calmed down I got my answer...

Sorry for wasting anyone's time, please allow this thread to die now.. ^^;

[animechica]

Ehh.. I probably would've reacted the same way you would have... but I think to make more of an impact, I would write my dad a well-thought-out note that explains exactly what you feel is wrong with things, because chances are he's not going to sit and hear you out. A note he can read by himself might be more effective... if he'll read it.

I'm really sorry to hear about the atrophy in church attendance, though... I used to think going to church was just a good thing to do, but I realize more and more that its purpose is to strengthen me in my Christian walk, and that's really valuable... I think some people just view it as a "good, religious thing to do" and that's why it doesn't hit home that going to church is good for you...

[ChristianKitsune]

Ehh.. I probably would've reacted the same way you would have... but I think to make more of an impact, I would write my dad a well-thought-out note that explains exactly what you feel is wrong with things, because chances are he's not going to sit and hear you out. A note he can read by himself might be more effective... if he'll read it.

I'm really sorry to hear about the atrophy in church attendance, though... I used to think going to church was just a good thing to do, but I realize more and more that its purpose is to strengthen me in my Christian walk, and that's really valuable... I think some people just view it as a "good, religious thing to do" and that's why it doesn't hit home that going to church is good for you...

My mom did this...not even two weeks ago, apparently... ._. (she told me this after my dad walked out...)

and so far, there hasn't been an apparent change in his behavior.

[Momo-P]

Doesn't the Bible say that Father is the Spiritual leader?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a passage in the new testament where someone says (something to the effect of) "Wives, do not fear if you're husband does not obey the laws perfectly. Because you obey them, your influence will lead them to do what's right."

Again, I have no idea how the actual wording goes, but the main message is the same. For whatever reason, I've noticed most families tend to have problems with the men. Like even though they ARE the spiritual leaders, the women are the ones who have to lead them in the right direction. ^^; Guess that's why Adam needed a helper? XD

But that said...is your dad still getting fellowship? I'm not saying you were completely wrong, but if your dad is still getting the spiritual food he needs, then maybe you're just over worrying? After all, different people use different methods. Just because someone doesn't rely on church as much as you (or heck, maybe even hates it), it doesn't mean they're not close to God and Jesus. My dad and I are more "read Bible at home and talk amongst the family" people personally. ^^;

However...if you're dad isn't really involved with God much? Then you probably did the right thing. Of course he's going to be angry, but sadly that's what happens when God starts working on people. Their gut reaction is to resist and with resistence comes irritation.

The only thing I warn against is harping. When humans worry (especially about people we love) we tend to bring issues up over and over again. That can make matters worse than better in the long run...

[ChristianKitsune]

[quote="Momo-P (post: 1252217)"]Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a passage in the new testament where someone says (something to the effect of) "Wives, do not fear if you're husband does not obey the laws perfectly. Because you obey them, your influence will lead them to do what's right."

Again, I have no idea how the actual wording goes, but the main message is the same. For whatever reason, I've noticed most families tend to have problems with the men. Like even though they ARE the spiritual leaders, the women are the ones who have to lead them in the right direction. ^^]
My dad doesn't show that he is or isn't being spirtually fed, in fact, God isn't even talked about much in our family... ._. Not like He used to be...

I'm not harping. This is the first time I've ever brought it up...and I told my mom, "We aren't bringing this up again... " and I'm going to stick to that...

I agree with you, that not everyone NEEDS to go to Church... that they find stimulus on their own... but this is REALLY unlike my dad.. ._. we grew up always going to Church...and sometimes if we didn't go, we'd get in trouble for not going...

Like I said, my dad was worried at one point that I wasn't going...

[Momo-P]

Ya, that is extremely weird. Maybe he recently heard something that's bothering his faith? Usually when people have those problems, they like to clam up rather than tell others.

Regardless of the problem Kitsune, I'm totally keeping your dad and sister in my heart.

[termyt]

Anyways, I said something...that I almost regret, but not really... I'm the 20 year old middle child. WHY should I have to be the one who has to say something about why I think my family should go? Isn't that my DAD'S job? Doesn't the Bible say that Father is the Spiritual leader?

You don't have to be. If you are called to be, then face it with the joy of knowing Gad has called you to it.

Traditional roles are not so important as to over-ride common sense. What about the Christian wife of a non-Christian husband? Is he the spiritual leader of that family? Are women only saved through their fathers and husbands?

Men are called to leadership, but where women are more eager and more qualified, they lead. Men ignore that out of some weird and foolish fear they will lose power - power which they never had or refused to use in a Godly manner in the first place. Some women refuse to lead because they feel it is not their place. That's all rubbish. Tradition is important and has its place, but we are not all called to lead traditional lives. God's plan takes precedence.

That’s enough of me ranting on gender roles.

It sounds to me like your father is the spiritual leader of your family, but he’s having a tough time of it lately. You know it's hard to be the leader all the time. It’s very demanding and draining. Sometimes, you need to step back and follow for a bit – recharge yourself, perhaps get a new idea or two. Good leaders are the best followers.

Your father’s behavior has changed recently. Why? Something caused it. If the change is not for the better (as in this case it seems not to be) then the cause of the change is what needs to be addressed, not the symptom. Is your father struggling with something? (If he is, he’d probably not want to burden you with it, so you may not know.) Perhaps he is having difficulty at work. Maybe it’s a “mid-life crisis” or some such. Maybe he just needs to be reminded that you all support him and love him no matter what. Maybe he just needs a hug. Maybe you will not be able to discern or address what ever it is that he is dealing with. It seems to me, though, that your father probably has not withdrawn from church because he no longer believes in God or doesn’t care about the spiritual well being of his family. If that’s the case, there must be another reason.

[Midori]

Did you say another deacon is also doing this? Do you think something happened at church that really shook him and your father? But whatever the cause, it looks like something that God can fix best with his mighty hand. I'll pray for your family too.

[ChristianKitsune]

[quote="termyt (post: 1252261)"]You don't have to be. If you are called to be, then face it with the joy of knowing Gad has called you to it.

Traditional roles are not so important as to over-ride common sense. What about the Christian wife of a non-Christian husband? Is he the spiritual leader of that family? Are women only saved through their fathers and husbands?

Men are called to leadership, but where women are more eager and more qualified, they lead. Men ignore that out of some weird and foolish fear they will lose power - power which they never had or refused to use in a Godly manner in the first place. Some women refuse to lead because they feel it is not their place. That's all rubbish. Tradition is important and has its place, but we are not all called to lead traditional lives. God's plan takes precedence.

That’]

Thank you for this insightful post... ._. It's just SO STRANGE... I guess... and my mom and sisters are really hurting...

I LOVE MY DAD DEARLY. Really, I do...and I didn't say what I said to HURT him or anything... but he WAS called to be the leader in our house, and the Bible says that men should be... women are to be the supporters right? ._. We are ALL worried about him...and concerned, and he's not letting us help. I understand he probably doesn't want to burden us with anything...but gosh, I sure wish he'd tell us whats wrong.

Thanks for your insight, I have apologized to my father for saying what I did. I'm worried I hurt his feelings... which wasn't my intent... -_-

Again, I'm not a man. I'm not a father... I don't think like you guys do... and I feel that I said what I felt led to say... and I will not bring up this subject to him again... Whatever is going on, God will take care of it...

Midori, I am not sure what happened at our church... I don't get it...

But what happened happened... and I just need to move on. New day and all. Thanks for everyone's advice...

Please allow this thread to die now ^^;

[Nate]

the Bible says that men should be... women are to be the supporters right? ._.

Not really. The Bible also says women shouldn't talk in church. What termyt was saying is that the Bible says things about gender roles but they were written in a specific time period by humans in a specific culture, and may not apply to us.

That's why he said, what about a marriage in which the woman is a Christian and the man is atheist? Well, obviously, the man should not under any circumstances be the spiritual leader in that household. It's up to the woman to be the leader in that situation.

Problems arise when tradition trumps common sense, I think is the lesson here. I'm not saying this is the situation with your dad, and please don't think this is about him or directed at you in any way. But when a father in a family is being lazy, neglecting his duties, or being a general jerk and refuses to act like a man, then he should not be the leader in that household, the woman should be. And that's just how it is. :\

[Kuro-Mizu]

Did you say another deacon is also doing this? Do you think something happened at church that really shook him and your father? But whatever the cause, it looks like something that God can fix best with his mighty hand. I'll pray for your family too.

I know you said to let this thread die but I wanted to adress this comment.


considering the fact that he is a deacon and another deacon also stopped going maybe they found about something another deacon or maybe even the pastor was doing and didn't want to go to church until it was cleared up.

about 5 years ago my church got a new pastor. After 5 months though he "left to pursue other interests" No one really understood it.

About 6 months later the truth surfaced even though the deacons tried to keep the congregation from knowing. The new pastor had been using church computers to access porn and as such they had to dismiss him.

The point I am making is you don't really know what may have happened. Although I wouldn't suspect any other pastors or deacons or anything I am just saying you have no idea what may be going on that has caused this change.

that is all lol