Man Sues Bible Publishers over Verses on Homosexuality

[minakichan]

Can I sue biology textbook publishers for violating my constitutional freedom of religion?

Actually, I think I'll sue this guy. I'm starting a new religion where he doesn't exist, and his existence is threatening my beliefs.

WOT.

[ShiroiHikari]

I don't think we should worry about this too much because the courts will probably be like "lol wut" and throw it out.

[mechana2015]

Actually, I think I'll sue this guy. I'm starting a new religion where he doesn't exist, and his existence is threatening my beliefs.

WOT.

I like this method.

[bigsleepj]

Actually, I think the guy isn't entirely doing it for the money, but rather doing it to make a point on his own personal beliefs. The money will just be icing on the cake.

[bakura_fan]

Actually, I think the guy isn't entirely doing it for the money, but rather doing it to make a point on his own personal beliefs. The money will just be icing on the cake.

that's a lot of icing then...=_=

[Shao Feng-Li]

Next he's gonna sue Motel 6 and the Gideons.

[Bobtheduck]

It starts... Remember all those slippery slopes we conspiracy theorists were nutjobs to believe in? Seems people HAVE slipped down that far.

[Technomancer]

Isn't it safe to assume this case will be thrown out of court and is currently being blown out of proportion?


Are you sure? I'm fairly certain he refers to a few cases I recall about the definition of hate speech in Canada. In attempting to find a reputable source for these my searches are bogged down by various religious sites, but I would hope this is a legitimate copy of a ruling that people like Bruce Hausknecht would consider an attack on free speech:
http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/bible-ruled-hate-speech.htm

Except that two years ago, the opinion of the Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission was unanimously overturned by the Saskatchewan Court of Appeal. While there were I think serious problems with the process in the case, the precedent established will likely deter similar rulings (which seems to be the case given that latest events in the Maclean's-Steyn dust up). Ultimately, this leaves only the provisions in the Criminal Code of Canada, which are very stringent in terms of what is required for prosecution (i.e. "offense" doesn't factor into it). In any event, these provisions also have explicit loopholes regarding religious speech.

As far as this lawsuit goes, it is unlikely to go anywhere in the courts.

[uc pseudonym]

Except that two years ago, the opinion of the Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission was unanimously overturned by the Saskatchewan Court of Appeal. While there were I think serious problems with the process in the case, the precedent established will likely deter similar rulings (which seems to be the case given that latest events in the Maclean's-Steyn dust up). Ultimately, this leaves only the provisions in the Criminal Code of Canada, which are very stringent in terms of what is required for prosecution (i.e. "offense" doesn't factor into it). In any event, these provisions also have explicit loopholes regarding religious speech.

Thank you for properly informing me. While it isn't really an excuse, I think this goes to show part of what is wrong with mass media: news stories exist as isolated pieces of entertainment, rarely including any follow-up.

[Tundrawolf]

sighs...What next? Sue the Koran? I think homesexuality is denounced in the Muslim religion too, if I'm not mistaken.

Just a little. They sort of murder you for claiming to be a homosexual where Islam is the state religion.

[king atlantis]

this is wrong on so many levels....
it reminds me of the 'non-sequiter' comic in which the court trys to sue god, and when they ask for God's side/case, the answer is 'I AM THE LORD THY GOD'
and God wins the case.

on another note...so, hed have to sue not just Christians, but also...lets see...muslims...and uhh...i dont know, dont most major religions agree that homosexuality is wrong?
but beyond that...good grief. theirs so much to say i cant think straight, so ill leave it at what i wrote above.

[Nate]

dont most major religions agree that homosexuality is wrong?

Actually that view isn't as prevalent as you might think. For example, some branches of Judaism, while saying that the Law clearly forbids homosexual sex as sinful (even lesbian sex) say that the Bible actually does not say anything at all about homosexuality and therefore it cannot necessarily be classified as a sin.

There isn't really anything said about homosexuality in Hinduism, but still many people view it as wrong, though there are others who are more neutral about it.

The biggest major religion that does not condemn homosexuality is Buddhism, which has absolutely nothing to say about it. It just isn't considered a religious issue for them.

Paganism, which isn't as prevalent today as it was, but still exists, also does not condemn homosexuality. It kind of can't, given y'know, Roman and Greek culture.

Wiccan doesn't condemn it either given that the major charge is "An it harm none, do as thou wilt."

Also, there are a few (not many, but a few) Christian denominations that say that homosexuality is not sinful.

So as you can see it's really just many branches of Christianity, Islam, and most Jews that condemn homosexuality. There are a few others (Taoism comes to mind) that do condemn it, but ultimately most other major religions don't particularly care.

[king atlantis]

hmmmm....well, that was...intresting.
thanks for that.

[XxMelodyxX]

How stupid.

I'm gonna sue all the atheists for causing me emotional harm by constantly and forcefully telling me that God doesn't exist and that Christians are ignorant nut jobs.

This is why I hate double standards with a passion.

^ Man I can't stand non-believers going around sayin God isn't real,but as Christians we never tell them Bing Bang is a lie.

[Nate]

as Christians we never tell them Bing Bang is a lie.

Ha ha, you don't know many Christians... >.>

[Jingo Jaden]

Actually that view isn't as prevalent as you might think. For example, some branches of Judaism, while saying that the Law clearly forbids homosexual sex as sinful (even lesbian sex) say that the Bible actually does not say anything at all about homosexuality and therefore it cannot necessarily be classified as a sin.

Alright, I am no bible expert. Paticulary when it comes to earlier language versions of the NT and OT. So please explain to me some of the verses. I have looked up a few things and this quote I found inntresting.

The Greek word in the New Testament for homosexuality is literally "a sodomite". Jock is trying to redefine what the term "sodomite" means. (A term that has unchanged in 5000 years, even today- "sodomy")

Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."

1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"

1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

I am only seeking an answer. It is easy for me to confuse one thing with another and there is alot of history to all this.

[Tundrawolf]

Actually, I think the guy isn't entirely doing it for the money, but rather doing it to make a point on his own personal beliefs. The money will just be icing on the cake.

The problem with that is that his beliefs are contrary to what the Bible says (And thusly OUR beliefs). If he wins, well, then that means we aren't entitled to ours. Of course, that won't happen, and if it did, it'd be a while before the church was TRULY 'persecuted" here in the US.

[Nate]

Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions]
Remember though, I said Judaism. Jews don't really view the New Testament very favorably...something about not accepting Jesus as the Messiah. :p Thus, any New Testament verses are invalid. So all we have left is,

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

those two verses. Which, as you can tell from the reading, does NOT condemn homosexuality, only the sex. What I'm saying is that there are a portion of Jews who say, the Law DOES condemn homosexual/lesbian sex as sinful but that homosexuality ITSELF is not a sin.

This is actually a bit of my fault for using the term "Bible" in that statement I made that you quoted, as Judaism doesn't have "the Bible" as we know it. I should have said "the Law" or "the Torah."

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Nate, I think Jaden was asking that question in regards to you saying "that the Bible actually does not say anything at all about homosexuality and therefore it cannot necessarily be classified as a sin." rather than the bit about Judiasm.

[Nate]

You uh, obviously didn't read what I said. Jaden quoted this, from my previous post:

For example, some branches of Judaism, while saying that the Law clearly forbids homosexual sex as sinful (even lesbian sex) say that the Bible actually does not say anything at all about homosexuality and therefore it cannot necessarily be classified as a sin.

I then said,

This is actually a bit of my fault for using the term "Bible" in that statement I made that you quoted, as Judaism doesn't have "the Bible" as we know it. I should have said "the Law" or "the Torah."

What this means is what Jaden quoted SHOULD have said,

For example, some branches of Judaism, while saying that the Law clearly forbids homosexual sex as sinful (even lesbian sex) say that the Law actually does not say anything at all about homosexuality and therefore it cannot necessarily be classified as a sin.

I hope this has been enlightening for you. :p

[Jingo Jaden]

Yeah, I am guessing it would sort of go to that point. I just think it is worth includeing in such statements.

This is an inntresting point as well.

Jude calls the sin of Sodom simply "gross imorality" and going after "strange flesh." "Strange flesh" is the literal translation whereas some modern translations like the NIV insert the interpretation "sexual immorality." "Flesh" in the New Testament occasionally refers to sexuality but more often it does not.

[termyt]

this is wrong on so many levels....
it reminds me of the 'non-sequiter' comic in which the court trys to sue god, and when they ask for God's side/case, the answer is 'I AM THE LORD THY GOD'
and God wins the case.

on another note...so, hed have to sue not just Christians, but also...lets see...muslims...and uhh...i dont know, dont most major religions agree that homosexuality is wrong?
but beyond that...good grief. theirs so much to say i cant think straight, so ill leave it at what i wrote above.

To expand on this, there are a couple of sticking points that allow for the lawsuit to go through it's iterations without violating US freedom of religion rights.

First off, the lawsuit is not arguing against the existence of God or even the Christian interpretation of God. He is arguing that Biblical translators have erroneously included homosexuality in the list of sexual immoralities. In truth, as we know the term “homosexualâ€

[Prince Asbel]

Darn, somebody already said what I was. Maybe I should sue Christopher Hitchens for publishing a book called "God is not Great"? That makes me sad! It hurts my feelings... That's worth at least 80 million dollars right there. I tell you, if this is not dismissed immediately, the legal battles that will ensue over moral issues like this will never end.

P.S. Let's say I'm a child molester, and the Bible teaches against that. It hurts my feelings and makes me feel like an outcast. Should Bible publishers everywhere be forced to empty their accounts into mine for feeling like scum? Of course not! So I don't see why homosexuality is wrong. I mean, all my victims consented to it anyway, so I'm not hurting anybody. :shake::shake:

[termyt]

P.S. Let's say I'm a child molester, and the Bible teaches against that. It hurts my feelings and makes me feel like an outcast. Should Bible publishers everywhere be forced to empty their accounts into mine for feeling like scum? Of course not! So I don't see why homosexuality is wrong. I mean, all my victims consented to it anyway, so I'm not hurting anybody. :shake::shake:

That is not a good example. It equates homosexuality, which is a legal practice in the US, with child molestation, which is not. I only point it out because this actually does move into the realm of the nebulous "hate speech" since it implies that a legal relationship between consenting adults is the same as an abusive relationship forced on a child.

It serves more to strengthen the man’s claim than reveal its foolishness.

[Nate]

Termyt is right, the difference between sex with a child and sex with an adult of the same gender is that a child cannot legally give consent, whereas an adult of the same gender can. This is why it's not valid to compare homosexuality with child molestation or bestiality.

[Tundrawolf]

Remember though, I said Judaism. Jews don't really view the New Testament very favorably...something about not accepting Jesus as the Messiah. :p Thus, any New Testament verses are invalid. So all we have left is,

those two verses. Which, as you can tell from the reading, does NOT condemn homosexuality, only the sex. What I'm saying is that there are a portion of Jews who say, the Law DOES condemn homosexual/lesbian sex as sinful but that homosexuality ITSELF is not a sin.

This is actually a bit of my fault for using the term "Bible" in that statement I made that you quoted, as Judaism doesn't have "the Bible" as we know it. I should have said "the Law" or "the Torah."

OK I submit this to you: Yes, it's from Jesus.. Jesus said (As the Son of God) that if you have hate in your heart (No outward action) you are guilty of murder (To God). I stand by my belief that entertaining homosexuality with the thought process that as long as you don't do anything is totally wrong. It is a temptation of sin, so you are commanded to focus your mind on things that are good.

Not to start an argument here. Simply put I am saying it is wrong to call yourself a celibate homosexual. Abide in the Him, and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh-I find it difficult that someone can entertain thoughts of an abomination and abide in Him at the same time.

Know what I mean??

[AlyssHeart]

*sighs* It is times like these that I just want to smack the guy in the head...but it is also times like these that I have to realize that its not christians against homosexuals...it is not man against man...but a spiritual warfare....and I am sad to say that things like this will only occur more often in the future. But we have God! And...God owns!!! lol ^_^

[Nate]

OK I submit this to you: Yes, it's from Jesus.. Jesus said (As the Son of God)

...for the love of all that is good and holy does anybody freaking read my posts? Do I have to say it in giant bold letters?

[SIZE="6"]I WAS SPEAKING ABOUT JUDAISM. JEWS DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD. ANYTHING JESUS SAID, OR ANYTHING FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT, WOULD NOT MEAN ANYTHING TO A JEW.[/SIZE]

There, did THAT clear it up?

[Monkey J. Luffy]

OH BOY! More new age mombo jumbo about feelings! If we don't have good feelings god forbid that we remain unhappy, we should always be happy (according to many people in america.) This country is riding a downward spiral into a pit of destruction, we really need to wake up.

[uc pseudonym]

As much as I hate to do this, our rules require that this discussion concerning homosexuality end, as it is fairly obviously theological. Take it to PM or let it go entirely.