Thoughts About Current Anime Culture in the United States

[Yuen Fei Lung]

Anyone else feel rather disenfranchised with the anime culture as of late? I wrote this blog back in March long before I had discovered CAA and I just wanted to see if any other fellow Christians who are also anime fans also happened to feel this way or if it was just me. I have edited this post a bit from its original format.

The current anime industry is something that has been up for online discussion for awhile now. Here in America, it’s no secret with the recent demise of Geneon Entertainment that the anime industry is in trouble—or at least in a downturn. I feel that like most things, the industry will rebound. The economy here in America is just in a bad state right now and the fact of the matter is the anime industry has seen an AMAZING growth these last eight years—so much so that I would like to see some of the current fanbase weeded out. Many of the current people who are into anime are simply just (in my personal opinion)… not the best of people. The moral values of the day’s current anime fans leaves a LOT to be desired with its array of yaoi worshiping fangirls, skimpy costumes and disturbing crossplayers. I don’t claim to be the most moral person in the world nor do I truly have the right to judge anyone but from my perspective, a long-time fan perspective it's rather disenfranchising. When I first got into anime I can tell you that I met some very special people who did in fact have moral values. Perhaps it’s just society in general that has caused this turn in the anime industry but something has got to give. Every year when I go to Anime Weekend Atlanta I see girls kissing girls, guys kissing guys, drugs and other unsavory activities. It’s no wonder that in an industry where piracy runs rampant that anime companies can’t find a way to make a dollar.

I don’t mean to paint all anime fans as bad people. I still in fact know some very awesome people who are into anime; friends I consider near and dear to my heart. I suppose more than anything I am rather saddened and frustrated not with the anime companies themselves but with the current anime con-scene. As I stated on this weeks Rare Drop Radio, I don’t feel much passion or fire for these conventions anymore… and maybe that’s because I’ve been to so many… but I really feel that more than anything, it’s just the current group of people who are into anime that have begun to turn me away from it.

As far as entertainment value goes, I still feel anime and animation in general is one of the finest forms of media to convey a story; many times even more so than live action.

Maybe I just miss the days when anime was more of a niche product… it used to be underground but something that was niche and underground that had a good, positive air about it. Now, the vibe I get from anime culture is a much more confused, darker one.

So, to sum it up, I feel the anime industry isn’t going anywhere as far as producing quality entertainment. Some titles will (as always) be hit and miss but then you’ll see great titles like Death Note, Bleach and Count of Monte Cristo (of course, much of what people like in anime is based on preference as with movies or video games). I do hope the culture of anime (and culture in general) will somehow turn itself around at some point.

[Cognitive Gear]

To be quite honest, the things found in anime culture are the same things you will find in any culture which attracts young adults and teenagers.

People which belong to these age groups like to experiment, and tend to lack common sense or wisdom, or both. Combine that with hormones, life stresses, and social pressures and the result is usually something very similar to what you describe.

Disclaimer: I don't agree that everything you listed is immoral, and I will leave it at that.

[rocklobster]

We also have to remember that the Japanese culture is only 1% Christian at best. This means that you will find very few anime titles with ideals that mesh with Christianity.

[Yuen Fei Lung]

We also have to remember that the Japanese culture is only 1%]

That's very true. Perhaps that carries over with a lot of the fanbase as well?

To be quite honest, the things found in anime culture are the same things you will find in any culture which attracts young adults and teenagers.

People which belong to these age groups like to experiment, and tend to lack common sense or wisdom, or both. Combine that with hormones, life stresses, and social pressures and the result is usually something very similar to what you describe.

That's true as well. Maybe I'm dating myself when I say this, but when I got into anime you didn't find near the amount of immorality that goes on at conventions now. There again, back then when I was 14 the conventions were much smaller and the industry has grown leaps and bounds since that time.

[Debitt]

Because piracy has everything to do with evil crossplayers and fangirls, and nothing to do with the way the anime industry is handling the way it distributes its product to its target demographic -- young people who may not have a great amount of disposable income and who are used to the convenience of the internet. No, the problem with the anime industry doesn't lie in its difficulty adapting to the wired culture in which we fans live today, it's got everything to do with those pesky crossplayers.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Keep in mind that Anime has always been a fringe culture, and fringe culture attracts fringe people. I can guarantee that most of us on this forum fit in to the fringe in some way or another, if just not in the ways you describe. Do I feel disenfranchised by anime culture? Yeah, sure, but it has nothing to do with morality, just with the fact that Anime culture stayed the same age and I didn't.

[Fish and Chips]

Do you feel rather disenfranchised with the society as a whole as of late?

Or is that a gradual type of thing?

[ChristianKitsune]

I myself am not a HUGE con-goer... I can really only stand to go if I get the chance to do an artist alley... ^^; I'm no good at cosplaying (although I respect ANYONE who can sew! Gosh I've seen so many amazing outfits!) I'm a bit bummed that gas is keeping me from doing more artist alleys though. Gosh, I can't wait till next year! My parents got me a Badge maker just for cons, and I haven't gotten to use it yet... :I

ANYWAYS... I'm kinda jaded with the entire Anime scene right now...(it's like an ebb and flow with fans I think...) Right now there are so many anime stories that are so similar that it's just a bit annoying. And of course some of the fans are driving me insane too. But I still appreciate that they love this genre.

Right now, Anime isn't really my priority. So...that also helps to add to my jadedness... I'm so behind in titles right now haha... ._. The only anime I'm probably going to purchase are the Ouran Boxsets, and the next Blood+ boxset but after that...hmm..


But I don't think it's ANIME Cons that are causing teens to act this way...they act that way anyways.. ._. that's how our world has been for years.

We just gotta love those kids...and show with our actions who We are, and that Jesus loves them...

MAAAN I wanna go to an artist alley noooowww >^<

[Yuen Fei Lung]

Thanks for giving me your opinions, everyone. I was just curious to know what others thought on this subject. I actually feel a lot better after hearing what people have to say. In psychology they say it helps to talk and in this case I suppose it's true. ^_^ I respect what you all have to say on this subject whether we agree or disagree.

I think maybe I am somewhat disenfranchised with society as a whole, Fish. But maybe the reason I relate the way things are to anime is just because I've been such a huge, huge fan of it for so many years and because (at least from my point of view) much of the fanbase has changed so much. I still love anime as entertainment but maybe I just need to take a long break from the con scene. Maybe I've just become too old for the con scene, I'm not sure.

I hear you on stories being similar in anime, Kitsune. I always look for the unique stuff but I have no doubt that anime High School love stories and samurai action anime will continue coming out forever and ever (as long as it sells that is). I respect good cosplay costumes and the effort that goes into it, no doubt about that. I've done my share of cosplaying and it can indeed be a lot of fun. Hehe, yeah if I stop going to cons for awhile I'm going to miss the Artists Ally as well. Maybe teens do just act that way in general... it's crazy to think how things have changed so much just from when I was a teenager... dude... I sound old. *_* That's depressing. But I like your take on it, we really should try to show today's anime fans that Jesus loves them.

[Shao Feng-Li]

...

I just like the 2% of anime that doesn't suck.

I've gotten out of liking anime as a genre... Never been in a con. The whole anime culture has it's good and bad fans though... I guess...

[CAAOutkast]

You got that Right,Shao Feng-Li. There is both good and bad in the Anime Culture. This can also be said about American Culture in general.

BTW,did you know that only 5% of Americans are Christians.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I will say this, based on the conventions I've been to, and the events I've attended. These guys may be steering on a different moral compass, but they're still nice people. Hardly anything to feel disenfranchised about. They might be hyper and glomp you without your permission (thus leading to a terrific crash and a huge fall which might wind you up in a hospital) but I've met very few anime fans who at the end of the day didn't mean well, you know?

If we're gonna talk the seedier stuff in anime culture, I'd like to point out that before that stuff started we had another stereotype which was the skeezy smelly older dude watching the shows with younger teenagers wearing skimpy clothes. How about the people who used to watch so much Harem anime that their perceptions of love and romantic expectations were altered by that? Something has always been fringe about anime culture. Nothing has really changed. The only thing that can be changed about it is your personal attitude towards it.

[Nate]

I've met very few anime fans who at the end of the day didn't mean well, you know?

^ This.

The people at cons may be a bit eccentric, but few of them are jerks. In fact most of them are very kind and polite. Even the crazy girls walking around with yaoi paddles will usually ask permission if they wanna smack you with it, and if you say no there's no hard feelings.

the anime industry has seen an AMAZING growth these last eight years—]
"You're not good enough to like a certain brand of entertainment! Never mind that entertainment is free for anyone to enjoy! I demand that everyone adhere to strict personality guidelines before liking someone else's art!"

I could Godwin the thread right here but I'm far too civil for that.

Every year when I go to Anime Weekend Atlanta I see girls kissing girls, guys kissing guys, drugs and other unsavory activities.

First, girl/girl or guy/guy kissing is only unsavory if you adhere to a certain type of morality, a morality a majority of anime fans don't have, whether you like it or not.

And what's with this "I have no place to judge people but I will still judge people!" Second, I really doubt there's that much drug use at an anime convention. Anime fans are already crazy enough as it is, and most of them can't AFFORD drugs. Nah I kid, but like I said, I really doubt that drugs are as big of a problem as you say it is.

Maybe I just miss the days when anime was more of a niche product…

I hate this line of thinking so much.

So wait, you miss the days where you would buy a VHS tape containing TWO anime episodes for 35 dollars? You miss the days when it took WEEKS to get fansubs of the latest anime, usually with poor video and sound quality? You miss the days where anime was stocked with the adult videos in the seedy corner of the video store? You miss the days when (even more so than now) "Japanimation" was stereotyped as ultra-violent porno cartoons?

Making anime more affordable and easier to purchase is NOT a bad thing.

it used to be underground but something that was niche and underground that had a good, positive air about it.

Yes, Urotsukidoji and Fist of the North Star were much more good and positive than Jagainu-kun. e.e

[ChristianKitsune]

I will say this, based on the conventions I've been to, and the events I've attended. These guys may be steering on a different moral compass, but they're still nice people. Hardly anything to feel disenfranchised about. They might be hyper and glomp you without your permission (thus leading to a terrific crash and a huge fall which might wind you up in a hospital) but I've met very few anime fans who at the end of the day didn't mean well, you know?

If we're gonna talk the seedier stuff in anime culture, I'd like to point out that before that stuff started we had another stereotype which was the skeezy smelly older dude watching the shows with younger teenagers wearing skimpy clothes. How about the people who used to watch so much Harem anime that their perceptions of love and romantic expectations were altered by that? Something has always been fringe about anime culture. Nothing has really changed. The only thing that can be changed about it is your personal attitude towards it.

>_< that last part of your comment made me cringe!

[ShiroiHikari]

When it comes to subcultures and whatnot, I feel like I'm on the fringes of the fringe. I like anime that other people think are lame. Other anime fans like stuff that I think is awful. I'm not into cons, I'm not into roleplaying, I'm not into fanservice or cosplay or boylove slashfests. So with a lot of anime fans, even though we both like anime, that's where the commonality ends.

I miss the days when finding another anime fan was something special. "You like anime?! AWESOME! Let's go watch some DBZ." Anime fans were anime fans, and there was some solidarity instead of all the divisions between genre fans like we have now.

I guess part of the problem is that most anime fans are like 14 years old now, and we all know how teenagers are. >_> It's like music. You can't talk to teenage music fans in a rational fashion. No, they get all "EWW [insert genre] SUCKS AND ANYONE WHO LIKES IT ALSO SUCKS." It's much the same with anime.

[Roy Mustang]

Every year when I go to Anime Weekend Atlanta I see girls kissing girls, guys kissing guys, drugs and other unsavory activities.

Wait, what! Are we going to the same con? I have been going to AWA since 2001 and been there from Thursday to the end of the con on Sunday.

I never seen girls kissing girls or guys kissing guys or the drug problems at all.

I have been a very fine supporter of AWA, because the con staff have some hard rules and make the con a family friendly con. I know some of the staff and they have really busted people and even thrown people out of the con for doing activities that they shouldn't. Now I can say that one year, someone bought a bag of weed, but they had it in their hotel room and they still got busted by the Cobb County police. Also, the only way for you to get any beer or wine is on the hotel grounds, but the con its self never sells any or will let one come into the con with such.

I always bring a cooler with me that I keep soda and water, so that I can take my meds. Even year, I had to show the hotel what I had in the cooler each time and even showed them my meds that I take. I have always been fine with it and know why they do this.

Heck, someone cosplay as Hard Gay one year at AWA and he got thrown out, for his little sexual like dances that he did.

[font="Book Antiqua"][color="Red"]Col. Roy Mustang[/color][/font]

[Debitt]

I will say this, based on the conventions I've been to, and the events I've attended. These guys may be steering on a different moral compass, but they're still nice people. Hardly anything to feel disenfranchised about. They might be hyper and glomp you without your permission (thus leading to a terrific crash and a huge fall which might wind you up in a hospital) but I've met very few anime fans who at the end of the day didn't mean well, you know?

Adding another "I agree entirely" to this.

I've been going to cons since 2001, and I have almost never run into a situation where people meant intentional harm, or were unwelcoming. The atmosphere at cons is generally friendly, and I actually find it pretty nice to be able to just connect with so many other people who share similar interests. I don't think it's particularly fair to be so harsh on people who are really there to just have fun and blow their allowance on trinkets and manga (they need to be "weeded out"? Really?). *shrugs* As a cosplayer, the stealth glomps and the sometimes strange picture requests are off-putting at first, but it's kinda cool to see people so consistently happy and excited for a change. :3

[PokettoKunoichi]

I'm glad that younger teens like it now... But that's because I am one. ^^'' I wish there were more hard core Christian fans though so we don't have to deal with some pressures it may put on us.

Anyway, children viewing yaoi, well, parents should know about it. I don't think most parents would let there kids watch those hard core things. Skimpy costumes are fine, to an extent. If they wear just straps around themselves and a panty then eh, the anime should be intented for adults.

For those who cosplay, I don't think you should walk around in public expecting people to admire you, or be a total jerk. I'm not saying people do that, there just seems to be a problem with it. Personally I cosplay in public, but you got to be aware of the dangers. Don't wear something so revealing. There have been numerous harassment cases for dressing like that.

[Yuen Fei Lung]

To those of you who are keeping the conversation civil, thank you. To those of you who feel the need to be snarky and rude, not cool.

[Shao Feng-Li]

There's nothing creepier than a 14 year old girl at DeviantART who likes Yaoi. What's a little girl doing watching/reading hardcore gay porn?

[Technomancer]

Also, the only way for you to get any beer or wine is on the hotel grounds, but the con its self never sells any or will let one come into the con with such.

Really? At the con that I used to go to, I usually brought a bottle of madeira. Nothing much about it, I just liked to have a drink while I was relaxing in the evening and trying to spend some time away from the con.

As far as the OP goes, I can't say that I find the "immorality" so bad, or at least not as bad as the sheer bloody annoyance that the fans could create. Anyways, I stopped going to that con in part because of the younger crowd, but also due to the increasingly poor organization and crappy location.

A word about piracy: there is an assumption in the industry that all piracy represents a lost sale. That simply isn't true; for much of what I watch I would never consider paying more than a rental fee for it. It's diverting but not more than that, certainly not something that I'd care to make a permanet collection out of. Is piracy a problem? Yes. Is it as much a problem as the fact that many fans don't feel the price is worth the product? Possibly not.

[Debitt]

There's nothing creepier than a 14 year old girl at DeviantART who likes Yaoi. What's a little girl doing watching/reading hardcore gay porn?

To be fair, while there are certainly some teenagers that age who get their hands on the more explicit stuff, I highly doubt everyone who professes to be a yaoi fan has partaken of actual porn. It's a term that gets bandied about far too much in fandom circles these days, and could very well apply to depictions of same-sex relations across the board.

But I digress.

[Roy Mustang]

Really? At the con that I used to go to, I usually brought a bottle of madeira. Nothing much about it, I just liked to have a drink while I was relaxing in the evening and trying to spend some time away from the con.

The reason for this is, because if you want to sell liquor in the state of Georgia, you must have a liquor license. It would be a pain for the con have to get on just for three days out of the year, and since the hotel has a liquor license, then they can sell it. But if you drink your own to the con or to the hotel, you will be ask to pour it out. The only way to get any liquor is to buy it from within the hotel restaurants and bar.

One of the AWA dances is in a room that has a bar, but since they would have to get a liquor license for it. They have drinks there to sell, but there is no liquor in them.

Now to the topic:

If you look at any culture within a hobby, it has both a good and bad side to it. There is nothing really going to change about it and if it bugs someone that much, then I think its time to move on to another hobby.

[font="Book Antiqua"][color="Red"]Col. Roy Mustang[/color][/font]

[Shao Feng-Li]

To be fair, while there are certainly some teenagers that age who get their hands on the more explicit stuff, I highly doubt everyone who professes to be a yaoi fan has partaken of actual porn. It's a term that gets bandied about far too much in fandom circles these days, and could very well apply to depictions of same-sex relations across the board.

But I digress.

I was referring mostly to the former...

[animewarrior]

kwah heavy topic I see.
Meh, as an anime fan who hasn't been truely "hooked" until the past two years and only having legal access to whatever they show on TV I ended up watching Naruto every Friday... however I thought the story was lacking...and as I've expanded what I watch (please don't get mad at me if you still think my choices are too "generic") I try to find the unique anime and manga, however I think watching a WAY out there rather stereotypical anime can be fun once in a while (aka Ouran High School Host Club) .
..
I've never been to a anime-con so I can't say much regarding that topic, however the yaoi is one of the disturbing side-effects of anime. Regarding the boys-kissing-boys and girls-kissing-girls I think that's just a downside of our morality in general slipping... I think that well you love the person not the action right? I have friends who have "lez" or "gay" friends and I've talked with a few of them and well they seem alright (as people)..

As to anime being "fringe" I generally agree with that statement, however in the last couple years anime has expanded and with it the "Main" animes (Naruto, Bleach etc) have become a bit... err... annoying... >,<

so well try not to get too discouraged with the anime scene.. there are always good manga and anime out there, just as there are good books and movies out there as well. You just have to look for them. ^^

[Haruhiko]

I guess part of the problem is that most anime fans are like 14 years old now, and we all know how teenagers are. >_> It's like music. You can't talk to teenage music fans in a rational fashion. No, they get all "EWW [insert genre] SUCKS AND ANYONE WHO LIKES IT ALSO SUCKS." It's much the same with anime.

Please do not stereotype teenagers. I'm 13 and I act nothing like that. >_>

[mechana2015]

I gotta say... in 4 years of convention attendance... unless you're going somewhere I don't at conventions... I have only seen 2 incidents of same sex kissing (ironically girls dressed as guys... both times), and never seen drug use or alcohol abuse on con grounds. And the cons I attend have 40,000 people... so you'd think stuff like that would be more prevalent if what you're implying is true.

There's also plenty of passion for the art and media at these conventions as well, and all you have to do is start a discussion about the right topic with... nearly anyone, to get a real intense discussion going about all kinds of aspects of the animation or story telling or art, and panels at conventions often even cover MORE in depth these sorts of things (Parliamentary Debates have become parts of many cons) than ever in the past. On top of that, cosplay, a sort of ultimate form of fandom, has blown up. I personally have seen cosplayers in the hundreds... for single series. If that isn't passion to go stand in 100 degree heat in a black outfit for pictures, I need a redefinition of the word passion.

I find your final paragraph especially troublesome. Its like complaining about someone giving you a soda bar instead of a water fountain at a restaurant. Sure there was 'more' quality anime in the past (water), but thats because thats ALL that had the ability to be released (or more commonly pirated onto VHS and hand subbed using equipment like reprogrammed ATARIs and passed around until the VHS tape burned out). There was plenty of lower quality anime around (soda, tea etc.), but it just wasn't making US shores until recently. Now we do have a larger quantity (a full soda bar) and easier access and we still complain? Thats insane! On top of it all we're a second distribution market! We still arn't actually getting access to a lot of the anime available in Japan since is not produced here... just because it isn't being imported, or even fan subbed! We get more anime now, including more of the better series along with the less preferred series (and hey... they have markets here too... no one person defines a market...) and occasionally we get a company that can take a risk on a great series and get it here... possibly despite lackluster initial interest in the states, due to the higher quantity of anime that is being imported. Its a shame that maybe series you don't personally like aren't hitting as often... but thats just the way media works sometimes.

[Maledicte]

I have never seen substance abuse or heavy drinking at cons, and I've gone for four years straight. And I agree with Nate--given the fact that most attendees have to scrounge together money for transportation, food, smashing themselves in with 7 other attendees in a one-bed hotel room, share tables with another artist, and hopefully have enough money to splurge in Artist Alley or the dealer room, you're looking at a very small subset-within-a-subset of people who would be doing drugs at a con of all places.

The only time I was treated rudely was when I tried to take a picture of a cosplayer (note to new con-goers: ASK FIRST). Oh, and another time was some weird guy who sat next to me at a panel and kept playing his music loud and text messaging, but he left. But by and large, attendees are excited, happy people who will readily jump into conversation with you even though you've never met them before. Heck, I've been more awkward with people I DO know than with people I'm randomly standing in line with.

Perhaps the cons you go to aren't as regulated as the one I attended? Hitting people with paddles is prohibited and even Man-Faye got kicked out of AX.

I don't think you should blame all the people for your lack of interest in congoing. Perhaps it's as you say, you're just burning out at the moment. I'm not into anime as much as I was either. This last con I went for mainly hanging out with my friends, selling stuff for the first time at Artist Alley and cosplaying.

(also I'm wondering about your first paragraph--what does piracy have to do with crossplayers?)

[Roy Mustang]

Perhaps the cons you go to aren't as regulated as the one I attended?

AWA is very regulated. See my other posts in this thread on that matter. Also they have cut back on what you can bring with your cosplay, as if you bring a sword, you can only show it at the time of the cosplay event. The dealer rooms that sell things like swords or paddles, you must take it straight to your car or hotel room, no questions ask.

[font="Book Antiqua"][color="Red"]Col. Roy Mustang [/color][/font]

[Maledicte]

AWA is very regulated. See my other posts in this thread on that matter. Also they have cut back on what you can bring with your cosplay, as if you bring a sword, you can only show it at the time of the cosplay event. The dealer rooms that sell things like swords or paddles, you must take it straight to your car or hotel room, no questions ask.

Wow, that's even more stringent than AX. My first two times at AX, things were pretty tame (with the exception of Man-Faye), the third time it was moved to another location and was poorly organized and I saw things getting racy (two guys in towels with a sign saying "will yaoi for $$"). This last con was much more organized, and you aren't even allowed to carry a sign.