Genesis question...

[Momo-P]

Just a quick question concerning genesis...obviously satan can't do anything, but lie, but I can't help but be a tiny bit confused on one part.

The whole explanation of how sin entered the world was a weird mix of truth and lies.

What I mean is...satan told Eve she would not die. This was obviously a lie. Not only did humans die physically afterwards, but sin meant they were going to hell as well. However...it's confusing. While what he said was a total lie, technically Adam and Eve didn't fall down on the spot, so to a dumb person, it may seem like he told the truth at first (something I think we all remember having to learn early on in our Bible studies).

So knowing this, I need to ask...can someone explain the rest of his words to me?

The devil tells Eve that eating the fruit will make her like God--understanding good and evil. I believe this passage is just like the above one--comes off true, but isn't...but I'm failing to see the lie in his wording here.

I mean, Adam and Eve had their eyes opened and finally understood things better, so what part am I missing and misunderstanding? Sorry for the weird question, but it's been in my head for awhile and I've yet to totally understand it.

Also, if it's ok to request...I know not everyone believes in Genesis, but I do, so if you don't...just don't bother posting. I don't want this to lead to some weird argument or whatever and there's too much reason for me to believe in the rest of Genesis anyways, so I'm not gonna change my mind.

[Cognitive Gear]

You know, I don't recall anything that specifically says that a lie cannot contain truth, nor that "the devil" cannot tell the truth. It's much easier to deceive someone when your words ring of truth.. In fact, it could be said that the best lies contain truth.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Satan lies and twists the truth, or misleads by telling partial truths.

Don't listen to the guy above about God being a liar though. He seems to be a troll.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Of course, as proof of the man's faith. And then God provided a replacement for Abraham's son.

[Chrysolite]

Ignoring the brewing argument in favor of answering the topic at hand. No offence Shao Feng-Li, but seriously, anyone on a Christian site that calls God a liar is not worth the time of arguing with. Just pray for the poor misguided nutball and let it end there. *rolls eyes*

Anyway, it seems to me that Satan didn't lie to Eve about the fruit, because he didn't have to. He only wanted to get Adam and Eve to disobey God and he did so by appealing to their curiosity, not by lying. Of course, he conveniently omitted the consequences of disobeying God and directly denied God's words that they would die, but what he said about the fruit 'opening their eyes' to good and evil was true. It says so in Genesis 3:7. You have to remember that Adam and Eve were like children: ignorant and innocent, and eating the fruit from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (notice how the fruit's ability is right in its name) took away both their ignorance and their innocence, making them accountable for their sin and allowing sin and death to enter the world. I think that's why God forbade that tree in the first place. This isn't to say that I completely understand the reasoning of God and the Devil or all the hairy theological hows and whys, and I know there's a lot of different opinions out there, but this is the simple, sensible explanation that I have learned and come to accept, minus tons of details that I don't think are worth fighting over. The bottom line is, not every word that comes out of Satan's mouth is a lie. Deceitul, maybe, but deceit isn't synonymous with lies. He's not stupid; he knows the best ways to deceive people and it's not always with flat-out lies. I agree with Gognitive Gear's comment that: "It's much easier to deceive someone when your words ring of truth.. In fact, it could be said that the best lies contain truth."

[Shao Feng-Li]

Ignoring the brewing argument in favor of answering the topic at hand. No offence, Shao Feng-Li, but seriously, anyone on a Christian site that calls God a liar is not worth the time of arguing with. Just pray for the poor misguided nutball and let it end there. *rolls eyes*

You're right. I just can't help myself sometimes... XD

[Chrysolite]

You're right. I just can't help myself sometimes... XD

It's good to be passionate about the truth, but I think the Mods appreciate when we don't force them to intervene. ^-^

[Shao Feng-Li]

I know... ^_^;

[Shao Feng-Li]

I think the mods would have my back though...

[Chrysolite]

That's very true.

Still, it doesn't mean they won't close the thread if a fight breaks out.

[Peanut]

*Realizes he shouldn't bother with this but...bad Theology is one of my pet peeves...*

Actually, the devil's the one who tells the truth all the time. God tells lies... such as him lying to Abraham about the sacrifice. I'm not saying you should like the devil but just gotta understand that the devil doesn't lie in the Bible. I don't think there's one instance of the Devil ever lying in the whole Bible. He tempted Adam and Eve, but he only told them the truth.

I offer you this:

Genesis 3:4- "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God Knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

The first part is a lie, in fact Momo-P pointed this out in the beginning of this thread when she said this:

What I mean is...satan told Eve she would not die. This was obviously a lie. Not only did humans die physically afterwards, but sin meant they were going to hell as well. However...it's confusing. While what he said was a total lie, technically Adam and Eve didn't fall down on the spot, so to a dumb person, it may seem like he told the truth at first (something I think we all remember having to learn early on in our Bible studies).

I'd suggest that if you want to argue with people for no reason you A) go to some other site (lest you wish to be banned...), B) pay attention to what other people say before you, and C) actually do some research before you randomly start spitting stuff out...any further arguments you make shall be completely ignored by me...that is all.

Now onto your question Momo...the lie in the second part of the passage I posted (the part your having trouble with) is the becoming like God part. Man was already made in the image of God and was therefore already like God to begin with, there was nothing more for man to gain (it's important to remember, also, that there is a difference between being God and being like God. Being like something can suggest that you are similar to it but not the same, for instance I am like my father but I am not my father). Satan was basically saying that unless you know of both good and evil you aren't really like God (or at least that's what I got from this...). I hope that helped answer your question.

[K. Ayato]

Satan likes to use partial truths a lot. Hope that clears things for you, Momo.

[uc pseudonym]

Good afternoon,




l. If that is your real name.

CAA doesn't have a problem with atheists or anyone of another position coming on and offering contrary positions. However, at the moment you just seem like a troll and I'll assume that you aren't interested in dialogue. If you want to come back, choose your posts more carefully.

Everyone else, please don't respond to anything this user posted. For one, it probably won't matter, and for another there's no sense in everyone piling arguments onto a banned person who can't answer.

[Gabriel 9.0]

As others said Momo, ignore the guy that posted right after you. On topic, Satan always tries to twist everything the Lord says, however he'll never succeed in defeating God or deceiving god's people.

[GeneD]

I don't know if Satan is able to lie or not, but I do think he can use truth or maybe something very much resembling the truth to deceive people.

The devil tells Eve that eating the fruit will make her like God--understanding good and evil. I believe this passage is just like the above one--comes off true, but isn't...but I'm failing to see the lie in his wording here.

I mean, Adam and Eve had their eyes opened and finally understood things better, so what part am I missing and misunderstanding?

The snake saying that Adam and Eve's eyes would be opened did happen, but they definitely didn't become like God, in fact they fell as far away from the nature of God as they could. So this part was obviously a lie. At least that's how I understand it.

Also, if UC came into a thread saying:

Good afternoon, [username here]. If that is your real name.

I'd run for the hills if he was taking to me.