Vatican Says...

[Gabriel 9.0]

No one disagrees with you there. What they're saying is that you should not take it too literally. There may not literally be a giant dragon coming out of the sea, there may not be literally four horesmen riding around trashing everything, and there might not be a literal lake of fire that everyone is literally being thrown in to. It's poetry and symbolism that God speaks to us most with. God does not often give us the straight message.

No one should approach Revelation lightly. It is a heavy book that takes even the most learned Biblical Scholars years to go through. No one has really interpreted it to the fullest extent by which it can truly be understood. Honestly the whole of biblical interpretation takes training. You can't just cherry pick out verses and expect to understand them for all their worth.

If Revelation were so easily understood there would not be the huge debates in the Christian community that exist today. There are to date four major views of how to interpret the book and all of those have varying degrees of variation. Be careful with it.

Yeah, I misread her post. Its just people have said that before as a way of dismissing the Book of revelation or the bible as a whole. Not saying Shao was.
Its also prophetic though. I do agree, you have to approach the whole bible with God's guidance.
Especially how there are prophecies mentioned elsewhere in the Bible( yeah I know I'm going off topic). Just thought I mentioned it.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Even the simple and light things with Christians debate over though XD

[Gabriel 9.0]

When did I ever say it wasn't?

I misread your post, you have to excuse me, I've been up all morning doing college studies and writing.

[Nate]

No one disagrees with you there.

I do. I'm the resident hater of Revelation. I think it should never have been included in the Bible and see no reason for it to be there aside from just to give the Bible an "ending."

I do look at history to see the prophecis of God that have been full-filled like Babylon never becoming inhabited again.

I'm going to find an uninhabited island and name it "Babylon." Just to mess with people.

[Gabriel 9.0]

I'm going to find an uninhabited island and name it "Babylon." Just to mess with people.

Why do you do that?
Its true, God did say this would happen in Daniel.

[Shao Feng-Li]

I misread your post, you have to excuse me, I've been up all morning doing college studies and writing.

We posted at the same time, so I didn't see your reply until after the page refreshed XD

[USSRGirl]

But seriously, the Catholic Church is right. Anyone here read C.S.Lewis' The Silent Planet Trilogy?

Seems rather ethnocentric to me.. or maybe Geocentric

Right on - though I believe Lewis got some of his material for the space trilogy from the Mormons (whoa - where do lunar quakers fall in terms of life on other planets?).

I'll just add that I'm a self-proclaimed bigfoot, UFO, and chupacabra fan (although I try to keep the chupacabra thing to myself... because lately people have been saying my dog looks like a chupacabra/orc/warg/ect... >.>;; ) Right on with the paranormal, Dib.

[Gabriel 9.0]

We posted at the same time, so I didn't see your reply until after the page refreshed XD

Don't sweat it . Its all good.

[Nate]

Why do you do that?

For the lulz, obviously.

Actually I should just name my room "Kingdom of Babylon." Then it would be inhabited again, because I live in it.

[QtheQreater]

The Czech Republic has beaten you to it, Nate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_(Doma%C5%BElice_District)

[Gabriel 9.0]

For the lulz, obviously.

Actually I should just name my room "Kingdom of Babylon." Then it would be inhabited again, because I live in it.

I see, well as Christians we should not make fun of one another. Not saying you are.

Here is a scripture showing Babylon will never be inhabited again.
To anybody that's interested:

Isaiah 13:20
It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

Jeremiah 51:37
Babylon will become a heap of ruins, a haunt of jackals, An object of horror and hissing, without inhabitants.

[Nate]

The Czech Republic has beaten you to it, Nate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_(Doma%C5%BElice_District)

Darn. XD It was a good idea though!

Oh yeah by the way:

An article published in April 2006 states that UN officials and Iraqi leaders have big plans for restoring Babylon, making it a gem of a new Iraq as a cultural center complete with shopping malls, hotels, and perhaps a theme park: "One day millions of people will visit Babylon."

[Doubleshadow]

Actually I should just name my room "Kingdom of Babylon." Then it would be inhabited again, because I live in it.

I hereby declare my apartment: The Kingdom of Atlantis!

I'll also add this for peer analysis. This is an actual transcript excerpt from a discussion in the British House of Lords about UFO's. I can't believe they still sit around in wigs and robes and discuss talk like this.

Viscount Long: My Lords, if the Noble Earl is suspicious that the Ministry of Defence is covering up in any way, I can assure him … the sole interest of the MoD in UFO reports is to establish whether they reveal anything of defence interest.
Lord Wynne-Jones: My Lords, does the Answer given mean that since there has been a Conservative Government the UFOs have done a U-turn and departed?
The Earl of Kimberley: My Lords, as my noble friend said that 600 UFOs had been officially reported or acknowledged by the MoD in 1984, may I ask him how many of those sightings still remain unidentified?
Viscount Long: My Lords, we do not have the figures. They disappeared into the unknown before we got them.
Lord Hill-Norton: My Lords, may I ask the noble Viscount whether or not it is true that all of the sighting reports received by the MoD before 1962 were destroyed because they were deemed “to be of no interest”? And if it is true, who was it who decided that they were of no interest?”
Viscount Long: My Lords, my reply to the noble and gallant Lord — I was wondering whether he was going to say the the Royal Navy had many times seen the Loch Ness monster — is that since 1967 all UFO reports have been preserved.

[Gabriel 9.0]

Darn. XD It was a good idea though!

Oh yeah by the way:

An article published in April 2006 states that UN officials and Iraqi leaders have big plans for restoring Babylon, making it a gem of a new Iraq as a cultural center complete with shopping malls, hotels, and perhaps a theme park: "One day millions of people will visit Babylon."

It refers to ancient Babylon.

[Sheenar]

But doesn't it say that in the end times, they will rebuild Babylon? Then in Armageddon God will destroy it. I would bring up more of what I've learned from studying Revelation and the related concordances, but I don't want to bring in theological debate.

On topic: I'm not convinced that there are extraterrestrials. It makes it seem that we aren't special in God's creation (we are special because we are the only ones out of God's creation to receive His breath in us). If there are others out there like us, then it makes it seem not as special.
Plus, wouldn't those others also have a sin nature? Wouldn't Christ have had to die on their planet as well? That doesn't make sense. The idea of aliens on another planet just doesn't sit right.

I'm just a skeptic. I guess it's all the alien "hoaxes" that are out there and the stories of people and cows being abducted...just makes me question the credibility of the whole idea.

[Gabriel 9.0]

But doesn't it say that in the end times, they will rebuild Babylon? Then in Armageddon God will destroy it. I would bring up more of what I've learned from studying Revelation and the related concordances, but I don't want to bring in theological debate.

Yeah that's right, those earlier scriptures referred to ancient Babylon, I have to read again to be sure.

[uc pseudonym]

Guys, I'm going to have to ask that discussion of the interpretation of Revelation stop. I don't see how the conversation can proceed in a meaningful way without opposite opinions clashing and resulting in a theological debate. Case in point:

But doesn't it say that in the end times, they will rebuild Babylon?

Yes or no, depending upon your perspective. There are at least two answers to your question that are mutually exclusive.

[Tyrel]

But doesn't it say that in the end times, they will rebuild Babylon? Then in Armageddon God will destroy it. I would bring up more of what I've learned from studying Revelation and the related concordances, but I don't want to bring in theological debate.

On topic: I'm not convinced that there are extraterrestrials. It makes it seem that we aren't special in God's creation (we are special because we are the only ones out of God's creation to receive His breath in us). If there are others out there like us, then it makes it seem not as special.
Plus, wouldn't those others also have a sin nature? Wouldn't Christ have had to die on their planet as well? That doesn't make sense. The idea of aliens on another planet just doesn't sit right.

I'm just a skeptic. I guess it's all the alien "hoaxes" that are out there and the stories of people and cows being abducted...just makes me question the credibility of the whole idea.

hehe, funny, that's exactly the same argument they pulled on Galileo. If the Earth isn't the Center, it makes it seem arbitrary.

I think I can sort of understand why you think like this... I guess I just recommend not doing it. However, to be frank, it sits just fine with me that there could be others, as it has with the greatest Christian thinkers of the past.. oh, say.. 2000 years or so?



I suppose part of it depends on how you understand God Creating us. The way I understand it, I would not be at all surprised if extraterrestrials existed. of course, I'm just trying to offer you feedback.. I'm rather restricted in what I can say that won't start a debate... PM me if you wish. But yeah, anyways, that comes back to my etho/geo centric point I made previously.

[Nate]

Wait why are we even talking about Revelation anyway? This thread is about aliens! ALIENS!

Talk about getting sidetracked.

[Gabriel 9.0]

LOL it is easy to get sidetracked about the bible though:p.

[Technomancer]

I'm just a skeptic. I guess it's all the alien "hoaxes" that are out there and the stories of people and cows being abducted...just makes me question the credibility of the whole idea.

I think that we should separate the idea of the existence of extraterrestrial life from the idea of their having visited us and done questionable things to livestock. While there is no observational evidence at this point to suggest that ET life exists, it is a reasonable inference based on what we know of astronomy and chemistry. The question of their visiting us though involves a whole a lot of anecdotes from unreliable sources, physical hurdles as well as what must be a set of fairly obscure motivations.

[ashfire]

I have read some of the answers and have one that might be interesting with everything said.
Now I have a fire chief of my fire company who lives in a area that is rural and is between military bases.
He has told different people he has seen near his house a UFO and a red headed angel who came close to him and winked at him and flew away. I think he said it was a male angel.
I have heard people ask him how much he drank before he got home.
I know he is Catholic, Italian/Irish so I don't try to get the man mad. A lot of people call him the Godfather.

[Warrior4Christ]

Well Christians are aliens to people that don't believe in God, if that's what you mean.

(CD cover)
http://www.goldusa.com/Interest/YouthAlive/YASAafpw.jpg

[Raiden no Kishi]

All I can say is that if I were a member of an extraterrestrial civilization that had progressed enough to develop interstellar travel, I wouldn't bother with this place. XD

.rai//

[Danderson]

On topic: I'm not convinced that there are extraterrestrials. It makes it seem that we aren't special in God's creation (we are special because we are the only ones out of God's creation to receive His breath in us). If there are others out there like us, then it makes it seem not as special.
Plus, wouldn't those others also have a sin nature? Wouldn't Christ have had to die on their planet as well? That doesn't make sense. The idea of aliens on another planet just doesn't sit right.
.

Big Ditto on this.....

Though, if u want my real opinion, I honestly believe these lights in the sky and "odd things" ppl claim to see are real....But I don't think they're aliens.....I honestly think it's something much worse.......

Remember how through the Bible it says that Satan is the great deceiver? I honestly think he is using these glimpses to turn ppl away from God. Though part of me wants to think that whenever ppl see these lights that they might be glimpses of the spiritual warfare that goes on unseen...

Again, this is my opinion.....and I desire that this not spark debate.....Please?

[Syreth]

I think that we should separate the idea of the existence of extraterrestrial life from the idea of their having visited us and done questionable things to livestock. While there is no observational evidence at this point to suggest that ET life exists, it is a reasonable inference based on what we know of astronomy and chemistry. The question of their visiting us though involves a whole a lot of anecdotes from unreliable sources, physical hurdles as well as what must be a set of fairly obscure motivations.

Very well said. But, by your own admission, one of the things that we know from astronomy and chemistry is that we don't have any observational evidence. What are some things that we know in particular that make that a reasonable theory? I don't mean to be abrasive, I'm just trying to dig a little deeper into what you are saying.

[Technomancer]

Very well said. But, by your own admission, one of the things that we know from astronomy and chemistry is that we don't have any observational evidence. What are some things that we know in particular that make that a reasonable theory? I don't mean to be abrasive, I'm just trying to dig a little deeper into what you are saying.

When I was referring to observational evidence, I was referring to direct observations of ET life. However, what we know of the science leads us to suspect that life is likely to exist elsewhere in the galaxy. We know, for example, of the existence of extrasolar planets, and our technology is advancing such that we should soon be able to detect more earth-sized planets as well. Astronomical observation has also informed us as to the prevalence of organic molecules in space, as well as that of water. These form the basic requirements for life as we know it.

We also have numerous experiments that have demonstrated important concepts relating to the chemical origins of life. These include the synthesis of amino acids, of RNA and other more, complicated molecules under plausible prebiotic conditions. One should also consider how soon life arose on Earth after the end of the Hadean period]could[/i] exist on Earth, it did.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

Probability leads us to suspect that life might be somewhere out there in the universe. There is a lot of doubt these days if it is human-like and that we'll ever contact it, though.

[Gabriel 9.0]

(CD cover)
http://www.goldusa.com/Interest/YouthAlive/YASAafpw.jpg

Haha:lol:.

[Syreth]

When I was referring to observational evidence, I was referring to direct observations of ET life. However, what we know of the science leads us to suspect that life is likely to exist elsewhere in the galaxy. We know, for example, of the existence of extrasolar planets, and our technology is advancing such that we should soon be able to detect more earth-sized planets as well. Astronomical observation has also informed us as to the prevalence of organic molecules in space, as well as that of water. These form the basic requirements for life as we know it.

We also have numerous experiments that have demonstrated important concepts relating to the chemical origins of life. These include the synthesis of amino acids, of RNA and other more, complicated molecules under plausible prebiotic conditions. One should also consider how soon life arose on Earth after the end of the Hadean period]could[/i] exist on Earth, it did.

Thank you for gratifying my curiosity. But yes, I did actually know that you were referring to direct observations of ET life. I'm not as dumb as I post sometimes.