Vatican Says...

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Postby QtheQreater » Fri May 16, 2008 11:57 am

Nate (post: 1226704) wrote:Without stating whether or not I believe extraterrestrials exist, I will say this:

And just because it is extremely large does not mean that there has to be life out there somewhere. God may have created so many galaxies in order to show us His awesome and magnificent power, and for no other reason.

I'm not saying there definitely is not life on other planets. Merely that you cannot simply say just because there are so many, that there is definitely life on one of them.


In other words, He may have been amusing Himself by creating a gigantic rock garden. I like the thought of that myself. ;)
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Postby Gabriel 9.0 » Fri May 16, 2008 12:00 pm

I posted three scriptures.
Its mentioned in Ezekiel as well and other areas in the Bible.
This shows that it is possible.
given that the bible is literal, prophetic, among many other awesome things.
Ezekiel 1:5-19
And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.

Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.

And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.

And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.

And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.

Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.

As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle
Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.

And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.

As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.

And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.

Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.

The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.

When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.

As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.

And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.
Some of my favorite scriptures.

Psalm91
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Hebrews 4-4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.



James 4
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.



Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
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Postby Etoh*the*Greato » Fri May 16, 2008 12:04 pm

Ok, so we have angels.
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Postby Gabriel 9.0 » Fri May 16, 2008 12:04 pm

Yeah, we do, but they are not of this Earth.
Some of my favorite scriptures.

Psalm91
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Hebrews 4-4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.



James 4
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.



Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
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Postby Nate » Fri May 16, 2008 12:07 pm

*facepalm*
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Postby Shao Feng-Li » Fri May 16, 2008 12:08 pm

They are of Heaven. Which I don't think is a planet.
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Postby Gabriel 9.0 » Fri May 16, 2008 12:09 pm

Lol, all I'm saying its possible God created other life.

[/QUOTE]They are of Heaven. Which I don't think is a planet.[/QUOTE]
Yes, however Heaven is the capital of the universe.
Some of my favorite scriptures.

Psalm91
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Hebrews 4-4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.



James 4
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.



Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
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Postby Nate » Fri May 16, 2008 12:12 pm

Gabriel 9.0 wrote:Yes, however Heaven is the capital of the universe.

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Postby Etoh*the*Greato » Fri May 16, 2008 12:13 pm

I think we all know who the real aliens are.
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Postby Gabriel 9.0 » Fri May 16, 2008 12:15 pm

Nate (post: 1226722) wrote:Image


Well its where God reigns over everything, think about it.

Etoh*the*Greato (post: 1226723) wrote:I think we all know who the real aliens are.


Well Christians are aliens to people that don't believe in God, if that's what you mean.
Some of my favorite scriptures.

Psalm91
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Hebrews 4-4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.



James 4
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.



Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
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Postby Etoh*the*Greato » Fri May 16, 2008 12:16 pm

Nono. Aliens are technically foreigners. Alien was originally coined to refer to anyone who wasn't from a particular land. It was a pun. I was just being stupid.
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Postby Nate » Fri May 16, 2008 12:19 pm

Gabriel 9.0 wrote:Well its where God reigns over everything, think about it.

That implies that Heaven exists in this universe. If it existed in this universe we would be able to visit it. But we CAN'T. Why? Because Heaven does not exist in this universe, it exists in another plane of reality.
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Postby Gabriel 9.0 » Fri May 16, 2008 12:19 pm

Etoh*the*Greato (post: 1226728) wrote:Nono. Aliens are technically foreigners. Alien was originally coined to refer to anyone who wasn't from a particular land. It was a pun. I was just being stupid.


Yeah, I was mentioning what it is used for in the Bible. Lol, it was funny how you said it.

That implies that Heaven exists in this universe. If it existed in this universe we would be able to visit it. But we CAN'T. Why? Because Heaven does not exist in this universe, it exists in another plane of reality


Not necessarily, it might be deep within the universe or might not be. I mean, hey we can't even visit Ursae Major b1, 2 , 51 Pegasi or other planets discovered. We do know it will reside on Earth for sure after the Second Coming And Armageddon.
Some of my favorite scriptures.

Psalm91
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Hebrews 4-4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.



James 4
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.



Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
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Postby minakichan » Fri May 16, 2008 12:20 pm

I find no Biblical evidence for life on other worlds either. I don't really think it's wrong to think that their might be though. I'm 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% certain there isn't.


I think absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. At the same time, I haven't seen any proof or credible suggestions of ETs, so I think scientists who insist that there must be aliens out there are full of hogwash.

I think I'll just stick with alien-agnosticism-- could be out there, have no reason to believe with conviction that it's true, don't really care. I would say that the environment that fosters life seems, at least from looking at Earth, to be very, very specific, but I certainly don't know enough about planetary composition and crud to judge whether it's a viable possibility, even withing trillions of galaxies. And I don't think scientists can currently know either, so laymen can judge even less.

At any rate, whether ETs exist billions of lightyears away has no impact on my tax rate or standard of living =P UNLESS THEY'RE CONTROLLING OUR MINDS AND PLANNING TO TAKE OVER THE PLANET. Then my taxes will probably rise.
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Postby Etoh*the*Greato » Fri May 16, 2008 12:22 pm

Tax hike tax hike! Woohoo!
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Postby QtheQreater » Fri May 16, 2008 12:25 pm

Gabriel 9.0 (post: 1226726) wrote:Well its where God reigns over everything, think about it.


Right past Walmart, second star to the left. ]We do know it will reside on Earth for sure after the Second Coming And Armageddon.[/QUOTE]

We don't know. That's the thing about revelatory prophecy: it doesn't always mean exactly what it literally seems to. You can't take prophecy as history. That's an essential rule of Biblical interpretation.
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Postby Roy Mustang » Fri May 16, 2008 12:26 pm

This is good for me, I don't have to hide it anymore that I believe in aliens, the green kind and the ones with a green card.

Also, when I first saw the title for the thread, I thought that it was some kind of new Italian game show.


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Postby Shao Feng-Li » Fri May 16, 2008 12:26 pm

Isn't Heaven being in the presence of God? (Don't have a Bible handy...) I think Heaven is sorta like... right here. We're just unable to see it. (SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I can't remember the details...)

I don't think Heaven is out their in space at all... What if someday we could reach deep space...? Fly a shuttle right into heaven? XD
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Postby Etoh*the*Greato » Fri May 16, 2008 12:29 pm

Shao Feng-Li (post: 1226737) wrote:Isn't Heaven being in the presence of God? (Don't have a Bible handy...) I think Heaven is sorta like... right here. We're just unable to see it. (SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I can't remember the details...)

I don't think Heaven is out their in space at all... What if someday we could reach deep space...? Fly a shuttle right into heaven? XD


qft.

Also, Roy, I too believe in mexicans!
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Postby Gabriel 9.0 » Fri May 16, 2008 12:33 pm

Right past Walmart, second star to the left.

Nate's right. You can't get to Heaven via physical means, yah? I dunno about other universes but I do know that there is a spiritual realm as well as our physical one. Don't think Heaven is in the physical one, really.


There is really no need for that.
I wasn't saying it was in a physical sense.

We don't know. That's the thing about revelatory prophecy: it doesn't always mean exactly what it literally seems to. You can't take prophecy as history. That's an essential rule of Biblical interpretation.


I wasn't taking it as history, I do look at history to see the prophecis of God that have been full-filled like Babylon never becoming inhabited again.
But it does mention of a new Heaven and New Earth and how its described as New Jerusalem

Isn't Heaven being in the presence of God? (Don't have a Bible handy...) I think Heaven is sorta like... right here. We're just unable to see it. (SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I can't remember the details...)

I don't think Heaven is out their in space at all... What if someday we could reach deep space...? Fly a shuttle right into heaven? XD


Well its decribed as a place in eternal happiness and peace. And as a city. As said in revelation.
Some of my favorite scriptures.

Psalm91
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Hebrews 4-4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.



James 4
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.



Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
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Postby Roy Mustang » Fri May 16, 2008 12:34 pm

Etoh*the*Greato wrote:Also, Roy, I too believe in mexicans!


Well, you should. You have been talking to a half Mexican in the chat for the last 20 mins, ME!


As for the topic, I don't have a problem with this. Its just I wish they would look into other things as well first before this one.

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Postby Shao Feng-Li » Fri May 16, 2008 12:37 pm

I don't think you can take too much of Revelation literally.
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Postby QtheQreater » Fri May 16, 2008 12:38 pm

Gabriel 9.0 (post: 1226742) wrote:There is really no need for that.
I wasn't saying it was in a physical sense.


Sorry, wasn't trying to be rude or anything. You weren't making a distinction, and I think that's how most people are interpreting your comments.

Gabriel 9.0 wrote:I wasn't taking it as history, I do look at history to see the prophecis of God that have been full-filled like Babylon never becoming inhabited again.
But it does mention of a new Heaven and New Earth and how its described as New Jerusalem


Okay. My only concern is for the rest of the scriptures you were posting. Like I said, a literal interpretation is not always the correct one, especially when we're talking as-of-yet unfulfilled prophecies. That's all I mean.
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Postby Etoh*the*Greato » Fri May 16, 2008 12:38 pm

I'm not sure you can take anything in Revelation literally outside of John's claim that he had a dream.
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Postby Gabriel 9.0 » Fri May 16, 2008 12:45 pm

QtheQreater (post: 1226745) wrote:Sorry, wasn't trying to be rude or anything. You weren't making a distinction, and I think that's how most people are interpreting your comments.

Its alright, and sorry myself.
Well to make this clear to everybody else. I'm just saying its highly possible God did create other life and planets.


[/QUOTE]
Okay. My only concern is for the rest of the scriptures you were posting. Like I said, a literal interpretation is not always the correct one, especially when we're talking as-of-yet unfulfilled prophecies. That's all I mean.[/QUOTE]

I was just saying they could perhaps give a hint to us that God could have created other planets and life.
Some of my favorite scriptures.

Psalm91
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Hebrews 4-4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.



James 4
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.



Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
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Postby Tyrel » Fri May 16, 2008 12:45 pm

It's really funny for me to sit here and watch the conversation develop. Shao Feng-Li being 99.99% sure that there is no extraterrestrial life, and PM'ing me on issues of creation doctrines. And then, at the other corner, Gabriel 9.0 who is 99.99% sure extraterrestrials exist, MSN'ing it up with me discussing heaven and metaphysics.

Honestly, This is entertaining.

Shao Feng-Li (post: 1226737) wrote:Isn't Heaven being in the presence of God? (Don't have a Bible handy...) I think Heaven is sorta like... right here. We're just unable to see it. (SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I can't remember the details...)

I don't think Heaven is out their in space at all... What if someday we could reach deep space...? Fly a shuttle right into heaven? XD


I think I agree with you 100% on this one. Heaven, it seems to me, is not miles away, either Geographically or Metaphysically. In fact, heaven often overlaps with the physical World. Such examples exist in scripture such as the Ark of the Covenant, The Temple where the Jewish people met with God, and even our Lord Jesus Christ himself.


It also seems to me that the Biblical books do not speak to the issue of extraterrestrial life anymore than they speak of life on some areas of the planet where human presence was not. My opinion.
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Postby Tyrel » Fri May 16, 2008 12:52 pm

double post.. ehehe... :sweat:
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Postby Gabriel 9.0 » Fri May 16, 2008 12:58 pm

Shao Feng-Li (post: 1226744) wrote:I don't think you can take too much of Revelation literally.


What?
Revelation is regarding on what it to happen in the future. The Second Coming,Armageddon, the end of sin, hope for everybody that wishes to serve the Lord the right way. Not being rude, just pointing out that Revelation is very important to every follower of Jesus along with the rest of the Bible.
Some of my favorite scriptures.

Psalm91
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

Hebrews 4-4
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.



James 4
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.



Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
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Postby Tyrel » Fri May 16, 2008 1:07 pm

Gabriel 9.0 (post: 1226750) wrote:What?
Revelation is regarding on what it to happen in the future. The Second Coming,Armageddon, the end of sin, hope for everybody that wishes to serve the Lord the right way. Not being rude, just pointing out that Revelation is very important to every follower of Jesus along with the rest of the Bible.


Yeah, I don't think she was disagreeing.. I think she was just saying it's not quite such a simple matter to interpret the book. She's saying it's not literal, not that it's not greatly true and significant for us.
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Postby Etoh*the*Greato » Fri May 16, 2008 1:09 pm

Gabriel 9.0 (post: 1226750) wrote:What?
Revelation is regarding on what it to happen in the future. The Second Coming,Armageddon, the end of sin, hope for everybody that wishes to serve the Lord the right way. Not being rude, just pointing out that Revelation is very important to every follower of Jesus along with the rest of the Bible.

No one disagrees with you there. What they're saying is that you should not take it too literally. There may not literally be a giant dragon coming out of the sea, there may not be literally four horesmen riding around trashing everything, and there might not be a literal lake of fire that everyone is literally being thrown in to. It's poetry and symbolism that God speaks to us most with. God does not often give us the straight message.

No one should approach Revelation lightly. It is a heavy book that takes even the most learned Biblical Scholars years to go through. No one has really interpreted it to the fullest extent by which it can truly be understood. Honestly the whole of biblical interpretation takes training. You can't just cherry pick out verses and expect to understand them for all their worth.

If Revelation were so easily understood there would not be the huge debates in the Christian community that exist today. There are to date four major views of how to interpret the book and all of those have varying degrees of variation. Be careful with it.
"I do not feel obliged to believe that that same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei
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