The Scriptures and Suicide

[Haibane Shadsie]

It's something I'm curious about. I tried looking it up in my Bible's concordance and topic guide last night, but it wasn't there... I was trying to look for some specific scriptures.

I know it's not a good thing.. it's something God frowns upon. I believe it was one of the things that King Saul was considered bad for... falling on his sword in battle. (If I'm remembering the story right, I haven't read the books of Samuel, Kings, or Chronicles in quite a while).

I've heard two diffrent views on suicide for Christians. I've heard the idea that suicide, for anyone, whether or not they are a believer, is an automatic ticket to Hell. I believe that this thinking is based upon a scripture of "whoever destroys God's temple, God will destroy"... not sure of exact verse. I'm also not sure it applies to suicide, either... The other view I've heard, based more on the scriptures that assure salvation, is that, though a Christian committing suicide is a very rare thing, that God will forgive that person and they will go to Heaven.

I remember watching the 700 Club one time, though it's a show I rarely watch anymore, when Pat Roberston addressed this with his view. It was his personal view that a Chrsitian that commits suicide does go to Heaven, because of assurances of salvation, and because a suicide victim is not in their right mind when they commit the act.

I, personally like to think this. However, I'd really like to find scripture to back up this view.

You see... I'm really worried that I might comitt suicide one of these days. It's something I'm trying not to do now. I want to escape my situations, but I don't really want to die. I just know.. how I get, when things set me off. I think... very frightening things. Right now, I've been sitting here, destroying the skin on my left wrist with an xacto blade and a steak knife because my brother yelled at me and set me off... when I was already feeling bad today and I was overwhelmed with unexplained sadness and anxiety yesterday.

I just finally got my perscription in. Started taking yesterday... I'm hoping that will make me better, but I heard on CNN that there is a suicide risk for people starting anti-depressant treatment. The news people said something about the drugs giving people the energy to go ahead and do stuff when they didn't have the energy before. I don't think I'm really any more at risk in starting my medication than I have been, as I have had the energy to do stuff - job hunt, clean the kitchen, grocery shop with my food stamps... visit my friend when she's not busy and can have me over.

But, you know... it's something I worry about with the way I get, that I might go too far. I really would like to think that God would take care of me, even if I do that. If I can find some scripture that would assure me that I'd go to Heaven, even after doing that, it would give me peace of mind.

You see.. with the way I am.. and the way life is going for me... I sincerely worry that it's somehow my destiny. I really don't want to, but I'm scared. And... I'm even more scared of going to Hell.

(and.. I hope this thread isn't locked. I'm so sorry).

[Shao Feng-Li]

scuicide is murder. murder of your self. its not a ticket to hell. its jsut a sin. it doesnt help anything
oh dear. the bible says that you cannot lose your salvation. no matter what. what you need to do is pray more then anything. God will see you through it all. there have been times when i thought suicide would solve eveything, but its jsut selfish and causes pain to everyone else. i also woulnt recoomend destroying youself with knives. ill pray for you. ill ptay that God heals your mind, and that you'll get over yourself and look to God for help.

[Gypsy]

I honestly don't know what to tell you about Christians committing suicide. It's a very wide debate. I wonder though ... since there's a chance that people that commit suicide go to Hell, isn't a lifetime of pain worth going through rather than an eternity of one?

I do know this, though. God loves you right now. He knows how much you're hurting, He knows what you're thinking and what you're doing right now.

I know that you're scared about this, but hurting yourself isn't the answer. It may be temporary relief, but I'm sure you've seen in the past, that relief slowly turns into something that adds to the pain later.

And as for killing yourself being your destiny, as a Christian, you should know that there is no invisible pattern that we're all following. Our life is made up of free choice - it's what makes us humans with souls. And I can guarentee you that God's plan for your life does not include suicide, so please stop believing that lie. Look:

Jeremiah 29:11
"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD , "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

I'm not saying that I understand you pain, or that I "know what you're going through" but I do understand that you can make it through this. Please be brave enough to keep living, and please keep taking your new medicine. You've had to wait to get it for a while, right?

[Straylight]

Suicide is a sin, and if you're a Christian, all your sins are forgiven by Jesus. You'll get to Heaven, but you will have to get past judgement day first. God has plans for you, and by commiting suicide, you are cutting any hope of those plans unfolding. It isn't worth it!

[Shao Feng-Li]

all i know that our days are numbered by GOd and okny he knows them. whether its by sinfull suicide or old age. live life to the fullest and thank the FAther that your alive. live to glorify him. THe chief and of man is to glorify god and enjoy him forever. thts kinds hard if you always depressed in a dark stae of mind. Cheer up.

[TwilightApostle]

The way I see it, you've already taken a stept toward freeing yourself from this hurt by telling people about it. Of course, it's easier to talk to people from a computer than in person, but you've still taken that step. You obviously know what you want, and you're saved...so instead of dwelling on the negative, think about what you've accomplished in your life. You've come farther at 24 then some people do in their entire lives (I'm being serious; self-realization is nigh impossible for some people). I obviously don't know you very well, but I'm sure that there are plenty of people who love you and would miss you. That says two things: that it would be unfair to them for you to take your life, and that you are a person who people think highly enough of to care about. As tempting as it is, don't let yourself dwell on those things that hurt. You're above that.

[Link Antilles]

God created us to serve and praise him, not to serve ourselves. Suicide is a cheap escape from life, and only self-serving. And as said before, it don’t help in the long run. It hurts others, we all of course would miss you! All this is Satan's attempt to make you give up. He enjoys nothing more then to watch us fail and give in. That is a sick thing.

Remember you matter! God has a plan for! And if someone told you otherwise, they lied!

I have a simple tip: Go to your Church or find one.... and get involve.... trust me, you can make a different for good. Now, what I'm saying will probably not at all change your mind... but, consider it. It helps. I have some friends who are suicidal... what them needed was a purpose.

I will sincerely pray for you, God Bless!
Grace and Peace

[Ashley]

Hmm, while none of the concordances I hve here specifically say anything about suicide proper, I think I may still have some points to think on.
* In a way, suicide falls under self-control, I think. And the bible has PLENTY to say on that.

* Judas hung himself. (see Matt 27:5) Perhaps someone can locate some good references on Judas for you--I may go back and edit this later if I find any.

* Though this is taken out of context, I think 1 Corinthians 6:12 is also worth considering. "You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body." As I said, in the original context it's speaking of sexual immortality, but I still believe it's clear the Lord values you and your body.

* On a final note, one of the authors I read from while trying to do some research for this answer put it rather well:
"Jesus is my sovereign. He has bought me with His blood. I have been called into a fellowship of suffering with Him. I cannot claim to understand this fully, either intellectually or experimentally...the Holy Spirit wil be my comforter and Jesus my comfort. To take my life--or ask another to--in order to escape the final act of my personal drama He has written and is directing would be worse than rebellion. It would be for me a failure of love and a breach of trust"

[ShiroiHikari]

I'm gonna be honest with you guys-- the only reason I never attempted suicide was because I was too afraid of what might happen to me in the next life. I know you're not supposed to live in fear, but I don't think suicide is worth risking.

Anyway, here's something I'm doing now, and it might help. This is the way my friend put it:

I use something like a "reminder". The reminder is an item that you select, buy, or make, with the sole intention of being close at hand or where you can see it when you think about suicide. In your mind you should strongly define the item you've selected as being an "I want to live" item. If it's bright and colorful, okay. If it's something cute, okay. If not, that's fine too. It's something you select yourself, so let it be something that makes you happy or has meaning to you.

For [name omitted], she was having suicidal impulses while driving, so she got one of those dashboard bobbleheads. Whenever she'd think about swerving into traffic, she'd look over at the bobblehead, and be reminded that she wants to live, and that the impulse is silly. The reason for this is that your suicidal impulses are a sort of complex built into your psychology, and this item is meant to build another complex into the current one, that counteracts it.

My reminder is a cross necklace my boyfriend gave me. It makes me think of him, and it makes me think of how Christ died on the cross to save me. Keep in mind I just started doing this like, 3 days ago, so ^_^;

Anyway, it's just a suggestion ^^

[CDLviking]

Please, please, please do not give up hope. I really hope that you are getting some kind of help for this. Since you're on medication I assume you are seeing someone about depression. Do they know that you are suicidal as well?

If there's any doubt about suicide, as there is plenty of, then you should stay away. You don't even want to think about risking your soul in any way. Know that I am praying for you and I love you. Turn to God and he will be your comfort through these hard times.

[The Grammarian]

I'm gonna be honest with you guys-- the only reason I never attempted suicide was because I was too afraid of what might happen to me in the next life. I know you're not supposed to live in fear, but I don't think suicide is worth risking.

I've had a fairly similar experience. When I think about suicide, that is the second and final thing that stops me from thinking about it any more (the first being that I'm somewhat afraid of the Great Unknown that death represents).

As far as the original point, Shadsie: the view that suicide is "just another sin" takes for granted that "once saved, always saved/perseverance of the saints" is true (a highly debatable point). It assumes that God will forgive people who commit a sin that quite literally "leadeth unto death" (1 Jn. 5:16, 17). It also assumes that taking one's own life is not, in a sense, "denying the Lord who bought us," since we are saying that life has gotten too hard for us to get through, even with God's help.

From a pastoral viewpoint (and I have had this viewpoint espoused by a believer in "once saved, always saved," my former pastor), it is stupid to focus too much on the OSAS doctrine, because it can give too much encouragement to sinful living and wrong choices if espoused as a blanket statement.

That said, my personal belief is that, ultimately, the fates of those who commit suicide are firmly beyond the view of the Bible, and are in God's hands alone. I just wouldn't want to be in their shoes; after all, as Hebrews says, "It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (10:31).

[Azier the Swordsman]

It's too big a risk. Don't do it.

[Haibane Shadsie]

Actually, I'm not seeing a therapist. I've been playing phone tag with one trying to get ahold of him to set up an appointment.

[Mangafanatic]

Sin is sin. Suicide is a sin. God, obviously, doesn't like sin, but, if you're a believer in Jesus, all your sins are forgiven. Therefore, suicide is not a ticket to hell.

But I must add to that a concept from Romans; we are not to use our forgiveness as an excuse to sin. As a Christian, we look forward to living a life that is pleasing to God. God can work out any situation. Committing suicide is not the answer. If we truly believe God is who he says he is, he is our counselor. He loves us, and we can't even comprehend how he is going to use our curcuimstances.

There's my two bits.

[Vyse]

Guys... saying suidcide will be forgiven really isn't going to help this situation... I know you want to give her the answer she asked for but please consider the possible repercussions.

[Ashley]

Guys... saying suidcide will be forgiven really isn't going to help this situation... I know you want to give her the answer she asked for but please consider the possible repercussions.

But that is what she asked about. Is misrepresenting the truth in order to make sure someone doesn't get the wrong idea worth it? I'm not trying to antagonize here, but I don't think it's right to give a false answer just because you're afraid of how it might be taken.

[Vyse]

But that is what she asked about. Is misrepresenting the truth in order to make sure someone doesn't get the wrong idea worth it? I'm not trying to antagonize here, but I don't think it's right to give a false answer just because you're afraid of how it might be taken.

I never said to give a false answer, I said to try to help her choose not to kill herself, I never said anything about lying. And yes, I am afraid of someone dying.

[Mangafanatic]

You see.. with the way I am.. and the way life is going for me... I sincerely worry that it's somehow my destiny. I really don't want to, but I'm scared. And... I'm even more scared of going to Hell.

Girl, God is the master of your destiny. It is never God's will to sin. I guarantee you of that.

If you're scared about going to Hell, maybe you should go back and consider your salvation and what your trusting in. Let me tell you from example that for a while I was scared about going to Hell. Then I figured out why.

I was trusting in me-- actually in doing my devotions-- to earn my salvation. I would literally get out of bed after I'd been asleep just so I could read a chapter of the Bible because I was scared of what would happen to me if I died in my sleep and I hadn't done it. I, subconscienceously, thought I had to put in so many hours for my salvation to be valid. I was petrified of dying.

Now I realize that I must actively believe in Jesus for salvation. If I trust in Jesus, I am going to heaven. If you're struggling with this like I was, you might want to consider how well you know Jesus. That was part of my problem, and I personally never felt more terrible that when I wasn't believing in Jesus-- the only true object of assurance.

[Vyse]

Now I realize that I must actively believe in Jesus for salvation. If I trust in Jesus, I am going to heaven. If you're struggling with this like I was, you might want to consider how well you know Jesus. That was part of my problem, and I personally never felt more terrible that when I wasn't believing in Jesus-- the only true object of assurance.

"...for He hath said, I will never leave thee,
nor forsake thee. Hebrews 13:5"

To me "will never" isn't conditional...

[Haibane Shadsie]

My faith is in Jesus. I know I can't save myself.

Don't worry about anything you saying making me want to die... I have reasons to hold onto this life besides a fear of Hell/natural fear of death. I do have friends... my brother whom I have to live with may not give a rip about me, but my parents love me. (Though they are far away at their retirement house. I think they love me more when they're not around me...). I have my sister... my nieces and nephews adore me...

I have a novel which.. I would like to see published some day. My characters tell me that they and their world will die if I die.

It's just that... gah.. just pray for my depression. I just want my sorrow and anxiety to go away. Also... finances/job situation are very troubling to me right now... and are part of my set-off. I know that the bad money issues I'm in now aren't the root of my emotinal problems, but it is pressure. I'm not really.. working... I feel like I'm not being productive to society and might never be, so, what worth am I? If I keep being unproductive to society, shouldn't I just die?

And, it's like.. I'm never happy anymore. It seems like whenver I start to feel happy about anything, something gnaws at my gut, telling me to "not get my hopes up." "You'll mess this up, too." "This won't last." "Expect to be dissapointed."

I know that I've probably messed up my own brain.. I probably have messed up brain chemistry.. I started on pills again, but... I'm worried that that might not work well because... after this first perscription, I'm wondering if I'm going to be able to get refilled/perscriptions again, beause I'm on state insurance... like pulling teeth to even get started, and I'm going to need to refile for my insurance next month - worried something will get slipped up in the paperwork and I'll get dropped or something - and it happens because the way state insurance works is idiotic... and medication kept me stable before, but stopped working.. and I don't know when/if I'm going to get the talk therapy I probably really need.

I need...something.. been asking God to help me for a long time, but it seems like my life gets worse and worse... I think, if I knew where I was now when I was in high school, or even three years ago, I might have killed myself already rather than be the looser that I am now.

[CDLviking]

Given the point of this thread I really think philosophical musings on when and how much to divulge truth and theological arguments on "assurance of salvation" are not the most important thing to be discussing. The most important thing right now is that Haibane Shadsie seek a way to get through this difficult time. Whether or not suicide is a "ticket to Hell" it still is a sin and displeasing to God. Jesus tells those he forgives to, ''Go forth and sin no more," not, "Come back again when you sin next." It is obvious that this is not his will for you, and Gods will always has at its heart our eternal happiness with him.

If you are still waiting to see a therapist talk to someone else while you're waiting. Talk to a pastor or another spiritual leader, someone you trust. If you don't want to because you are worried or embarassed about others finding out, even if you aren't Catholic, a priest is bound never to tell anyone anything you tell him in confidence. Please talk to someone.

[CDLviking]

I need...something.. been asking God to help me for a long time, but it seems like my life gets worse and worse... I think, if I knew where I was now when I was in high school, or even three years ago, I might have killed myself already rather than be the looser that I am now.

Please don't ever say anything like that about yourself again. I know that I don't know who you are in the outside world, and I don't care if you don't believe me when I say it, but I love you. More importantly Christ loves you. That alone means that your life is worth living, you can not be a loser. Who cares how "society" or the world values your accomplishments. Look how many people here are concerned for you. Look at what Christ did for you. Do you think he cares how you look in the worlds eyes. Gods opinion is the only one that matters, and he does not think you are a loser.

[Mangafanatic]

My faith is in Jesus. I know I can't save myself.

Oh, please don't think I was saying you weren't. I just thought I'd throw that out there to make sure everything's right with you and Jesus, and I'm so glad to hear you're trusting Jesus entirely for you salvation.

I have a novel which.. I would like to see published some day.

Oh, we have common grounds here. I'm a writer whose works will hopefully be published one day. Maybe we'll run into eachother at a book signing one day!

[Haibane Shadsie]

I felt a little better today. Went job hunting. Just letting people know I'm alive and alright. Don't stop praying, though. I mean... things like this don't just "go away". I still have the gnawing sadness, but it was a wee bit less today. Maybe my pills are kicking in? I did pray hard last night, so maybe that's it? I don't know.

[Vyse]

I felt a little better today. Went job hunting. Just letting people know I'm alive and alright. Don't stop praying, though. I mean... things like this don't just "go away". I still have the gnawing sadness, but it was a wee bit less today. Maybe my pills are kicking in? I did pray hard last night, so maybe that's it? I don't know.

Of course I'll still pray ^_^

And rember what I told you over IM, I'm sure lots of people care about ya, just look at how many people replied ^_^

[Link Antilles]

Good to hear a small improvement. ^^ As long as your name's written down on my prayer list, I'll still be praying. ^^ You can make it through this, but it's your choice. I will conintue to pray you make the right one and God gives you the strength.

[inkhana]

I felt a little better today. Went job hunting. Just letting people know I'm alive and alright. Don't stop praying, though. I mean... things like this don't just "go away". I still have the gnawing sadness, but it was a wee bit less today. Maybe my pills are kicking in? I did pray hard last night, so maybe that's it? I don't know.

*hug* You're still on my prayer list...

[cbwing0]

I will pray for you.

Here are a few more verses that might help you:

"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death" (Romans 8:1-2).

"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?" (Romans 6:1-2).

You will not be condemned for committing suicide, or any other sin; but that is not a reason to do it. I realize that that is just reiterating what everyone else said, but it bears repeating.

I look at it this way: if you commit suicide now, then your only accomplishments will be those that you have made up until this point. Since you seem to be unhappy with them, it would be better to live with the chance of improving rather than giving up so early in life (you are only 24, after all).

[plutogrl03]

This is just my two cents, but have you considered doing some volunteer work while you're looking for a job? It's a good resume builder and it gives you references perspective employers can contact. You will feel productive and be helping others in the process. You may even get some leads for a job. Hope that helps. I'll be praying for you!

[JediSonic]

You are at the top of my prayer list. I'm praying for you right now, I'm going to pray for you later tonight, and I'm going to pray for you every time I can possibly remember to do so in the future. You are very important to me, shadsie. It brings me to the verge of tears just reading this thread, in fact... and I don't even know you!

Just never give up. To give up is to give in to sin and evil and the will of Satan. So don't ever, EVER give up. God has told us that he will never put us through any trial that we cannot overcome with His help, and I for one beleive Him. God loves you, and while you might think viking and I are completely nuts for saying this, I love you too! A lot!

And dont you ever ever think that you are worthless. In the words of my TaiKwonDo instructor, "god made you.. and god doesn't make trash."