Fundamentalism strikes again!

[Shao Feng-Li]

Read the latest Christian fiction, get the bumper stickers, say "Jesus" a few times a day, don't cause and don't drink. Heaven here I come.

Oh, and a few nights ago I overheard them talking about how interracial marriage is a sin too....I would seriously have to question someone's character if they believe that, especially because we have an interracial couple in our church. How would they feel if they knew what my mom and step-dad said about that?

According to them [my mom and step-dad], it's also a sin to read or know anything about other religious beliefs, because to them, reading it means that you believe in it, and that there couldn't possibly be any benefit gained from increasing your knowledge of them.

So my pastor, because he has read the Book of Mormon and the Q'uran for study is now a Mormon and an Muslim at the same time.

Though, what makes me worry most of all is what they're saying about interracial relationships. This is America. You can't really help race, unless you count skin color as race.

I'd be so out of there.

And Nate makes a very good point. If my Mom obeyed her mother, she'd have a Harley, a husband and 4 other boy friends.

[ShiroiHikari]

Thank you for pointing that out, Nate.

Anyway...not trying to judge or attack you or anything, but why do you listen to Satanic music? What exactly is "Satanic" about it?

[CAAOutkast]

Satanic music is retarted.Oh,and just for the record,Not all Metal music is satanic..when are people gonna realize that?

Remember that Jesus cares for us,nomater what we do. Satan,on the other hand,doesn't give a crap about us,although he really enjoys it when we ruin our lives.

Anyway,my friend,we'll pray for you.

[Eric]

Thank you for pointing that out, Nate.

Anyway...not trying to judge or attack you or anything, but why do you listen to Satanic music? What exactly is "Satanic" about it?

I listen to it because I enjoy the art they create. Obviously, the Satanic label is not cut and dry like so many people make it out to be. Yes, there are some musicians who are geniunely serious about what they're doing (like such bands as Deathspell Omega, Antaeus, Glorior Belli, other bands on Norma Evangelium Diaboli, and as far as scenes go, much of the black metal from France and other eastern European countries), but they don't exactly fit the stereotype of merely bashing Christianity since their lyrics are very well-written and can be quite intelligent, and oftentimes make little to no mention of Christianity at all. Deathspell Omega is probably the most recognized example of this (particularly their releases from Si Monumentum, Requires, Circumspice onwards, since that is when their current vocalist joined). You can read the lyrics of their releases here if you would like. This interview with them from a few years ago provides some good insight into their mindset.


Also, you have to keep in mind that you can't always know if the band is serious is or not, especially if they make no mention of anything in interviews/on their site/etc. Many times they use lyrics like that as a kind of commentary on the state of Christianity, to express their frustrations with it, and even as satire. There is also the case that they are just doing it for the imagery and aesthetics, or just to be "metal," which in spite of others claiming that this is just immature nonsense, is actually very legimate reasoning since metal--especially the more underground scene (this is also the case with old school hardcore)--has always been very much an anti-establishmental way of creating art, whether it be directly or indirectly. Behemoth would be a good example of this.

[Ingemar]

My two cents is simply this, and I'll step out.

The verse says "Honor your father and mother."

It seems to me that some people think "honor" and "obey" are synonyms.

They are not.

They are not antonyms, either.

And verses on honoring (or obeying, yes they do exist) parents are not confined to the book of Exodus.

Children, obey your parents in all things, for this is well pleasing to the Lord.

[Fish and Chips]

And if our parents are behaving decidedly un-biblical?

[Mr. SmartyPants]

And if our parents are behaving decidedly un-biblical?

We love and honor them anyway. If they demand that we sin, then we should not because we are under the authority of God before we are under the authority of our parents.

[Mave]

I mean well by this: Eh, may I ask if you think listening to that type of music does you any good? I read through some of the lyrics - guess I wouldn't be surprised if it amplifies any sadness or depression. It has nothing to do with "OMGOSH seculaz music IZZZ SO EVILZ" but it's just that music has such an impact on me, I can't help wondering. Don't get me wrong - just looking out for ya, brother.

But ok, I don't want to go further off-track. I hope you've already found a place to stay at by now and are praying for God's Wisdom in this. It isn't easy to honor my parents when they're far less than perfect. But it helps to place the perspective right when I remember that I haven't exactly been the perfect daughter either. Interesting discussion so far....

[Danderson]

Just wanted to give some two cents here on the situation:
No matter what music u listen to, u still need to be careful. Not saying that metal's evil (While I'm not big on the genre, I like Demon Hunter and a few songs from groups like As I Lay Dying and Living Sacrifice)...just saying make sure it's not distracting u from ur relationship with God.....

And, u know what, this goes for any genre of music, even if it's disney pop or a movie score.
For example: Me, being an emotion seeking type person, I have to keep myself in check when listening to any music (even Christian groups) that I'm not letting it dictate my attitude or decisions and therefore controlling me (a good reason I don't listen to anything that's hard rock or metal when I'm mad)....

[ShiroiHikari]

The Bible says to obey, yes, but it also says "children". Not "adults". It also says that it is natural for a man to grow up and leave his parents, not that he is to be subservient to them forever.

[EricTheFred]

The Bible says to obey, yes, but it also says "children". Not "adults". It also says that it is natural for a man to grow up and leave his parents, not that he is to be subservient to them forever.

I would have thought this was obvious, but reading over the past many responses on this thread, I see that it isn't.

Parents who cannot let go of their adult children, cannot see that they are no longer in authority over them, are commonplace and very pathetic. There is a point where you have done your job, and it is time for you to step aside and let them go.

Harking back to the original post, though, I would like to point out that the mother did indeed let the child go. She said "get out of my house." Not exactly polite, but some birds are known to give their chicks a shove out of the nest.

Whatever the strange motivations, the confused emotions, or the negative vibes involved, the ultimate result was correct. If the child no longer wishes to obey the parent, and the child is old enough to make that decision (and I am sorry, but 21 is easily old enough) then it is time for the child to leave.

I left home at seventeen, under highly strained circumstances involving myself and my stepmother. For a couple years after that, things remained strained, but today we get along well, my children call her 'Grandma' and love her dearly, and the past is where it belongs, in the past. I hope and pray that for the original poster things work out as well.

[Tsukuyomi]

My two cents is simply this, and I'll step out.

The verse says "Honor your father and mother."

It seems to me that some people think "honor" and "obey" are synonyms.

They are not.

I can honor someone without obeying them. I can obey someone without honoring them.

That is all.

Delayed response: I agree with this.

I had more to say, but.. meh u_u

Why is anime so evil? I honestly do not know? I guess everything has the potential to be evil huh? It depends on one's mindset I suppose, but what kinda of mindset would think such a thing?

[Eric]

Delayed response: I agree with this.

I had more to say, but.. meh u_u

Why is anime so evil? I honestly do not know? I guess everything has the potential to be evil huh? It depends on one's mindset I suppose, but what kinda of mindset would think such a thing?

The kind that condemns everything that you don't understand.


I'm going to check this out tomorrow. I should hopefully be able to move in on Friday or so. I haven't found anything remotely as good in the area, and the others are all like $500/month or more.

http://madison.craigslist.org/roo/646813780.html


I can move in next week since she'll be out of town this weekend.

[Bobtheduck]

Being another Adult living with my parents, I have at least a vague understanding of this situation. My parents are not quite as extreme as all of this, but they do have their moments of irrationality (is that the correct word?)

I will not offer my "help" or anything on honoring your parents, since I've, shall we say, got a board in my eye. I'll simply tell you what I have, and that is I still have an ok relationship with my parents.

My biggest point of contention with my parents is my personal style. I've never bought my own clothing, even when I lived in Northern California for over a year away from them. The only clothing I've ever bought are some shoes, underwear, a couple T-shirts, and one pair of pants. I didn't go through the phase in high school of trying to dress like some group that they didn't like because I didn't have the means to.

Now, in Adulthood, I have done several things that my parents do not agree with in regards to my style. I grew my hair to nearly a foot, with much guilt tripping and whining and moaning and begging from my Mother. I have wanted to bleach and dye my hair green, but I was outright forbidden to do so ("Not as long as you're under this roof, you won't")

Another thing is being able to go where I want. Whenever they see me with shoes on in the appartment, I'm pestered with questions... Where am I going, how long will I be there, who will I be with, make sure I take a jacket, remember I have school in the morning, did I do such-and-such. It's gotten to the point I usually sneak out of the appartment if I have a chance, but that's really difficult since we only have one door into the appartment.

My entertainment choices don't come up too much, but they get upset with me when I watch the HDTV ("Why are you watching TV in here?"), look at me suspiciously whenever I've been watching a premium channel, and they definitely have an issue with Harry Potter (of which I'm an incredible fan)

They have gone through not liking the things I watch every since I was young. I remember being forbidden to watch Captain N after my Dad saw Mother Brain, and my parents not letting me watch Ninja Turtles or Ren and Stimpy or Simpsons (though the last two I understand a bit more now that I'm an adult... I wouldn't let my kids watch Ren and Stimpy, and the Simpsons can be quite iffy for a kid to be watching) I went through a period of trying desperately to defend Pokemon (hahah, I was probably one of the oldest fans at the time) and getting to bring my first War movie home (black hawk down) was the cause of a lot of discussion. The thing is, this is still the case, even though they watch some of the most violent and even sexual things on Network TV (well, my Mom more than my Dad, as he sort of got enlightened during a fast and avoids TV except for the news and Extreme Home Makeover)

The thing with Harry Potter, of course, comes from those watchdog shows on TBN and they have no experience with the books or the movies. I grew up with Bedknobs and Broomsticks and Sleeping Beauty and Bewitched and Aladdin and I dream of Jeanie, but when she started getting the "official" word about how bad and, somehow, legitimate Harry Potter was, she (my Mom, my Dad just backs her up, I don't even think he's watched those specials) wouldn't even hear a word of argument, and actually went back on what she though about those old movies and TV shows, too. That she'd somehow been letting witchcraft into our house by allowing me to watch those when I was younger.

They know I am a fan of the books and movies (less the movies, of course) and they probably spend the entire time I'm at a movie in Prayer, but I felt like things cooled off a little on that front when they heard me talking on a radio show about the books. The thing is, they see them as Children's books, which maybe the first 3 were, and when I explained that I didn't think they have been appropriate for kids or made for kids since the third book, and heard me discuss them rationally over the radio, they loosened a little. They said I had some good points.

I'm writing this to say that I've put up with far less than you, and I've still had problems honoring my parents' wishes, so I understand how much more the desire would be to lash out when they're being as unrational as your parents and church appear to be. I still think it is best to honor and obey your parents, of course, and obey their house rules for you as long as you're in their house. Once you leave, simply never bring up those subjects with them again. Don't put your anime and games and music on display for them to see when you've moved into your new place, for instance, and try your hardest to reconcile with your mother. As for the church, well, they're completely in the wrong, and you should just find a church that doesn't put man-made laws above what God said.

I, on the other hand, will be buying the complete collection of books and movies and put them proudly on display, along with a number of other movies my parents wouldn't agree with, because my Parents accept that once I'm out of the house I can make my own choices about entertainment, but that's the difference between my parents and yours. I hope that your choices of entertainment don't cost you your relationship with your parents for the rest of their lives... That would honestly be a poor trade.

[mechana2015]

I'm going to check this out tomorrow. I should hopefully be able to move in on Friday or so. I haven't found anything remotely as good in the area, and the others are all like $500/month or more.

http://madison.craigslist.org/roo/646813780.html

I can move in next week since she'll be out of town this weekend.

Consider yourself lucky to be in Madison. 500 a month is a steal in socal.

[Sparrowhawk]

Just to let you know...this is not normal fundamentalism - I went to an elementary school that was very fundamentalistic (which I had deep disagreements), but they did not see "vibes" or anything like that - this sounds like a combo of fundamentalism and paranoia.

I do feel sorry for you and think your parents were wrong for kicking you out (I'm trying to think of where and if the Bible talks about hypocrisy of those who neglect the basic immediate needs of others supposedly to please God).

Not that you have to do this, but if you ever want to go back home you may should agree not to listen to the music/follow hobbies they disapprove of at their place. My parents used to always tell me - "my house, my rules" - and though they were not umm (trying to think of a nice way to decribe your parents harsh measures...) as your parents, I did see the reasoning of this and chose not to pursue certain interest while I stay with them - my parents dont like how much I play video games so I dont play as much when I am at their place.

Now I know my situation really isnt even comparable to yours, its just a thought =) Just to avoid problems with ur parents u may want to not do the things they can't stand - even if the problem rests with them and not you.

Good luck to you!

[firestorm]

I listen to it because I enjoy the art they create. Obviously, the Satanic label is not cut and dry like so many people make it out to be. Yes, there are some musicians who are geniunely serious about what they're doing (like such bands as Deathspell Omega, Antaeus, Glorior Belli, other bands on Norma Evangelium Diaboli, and as far as scenes go, much of the black metal from France and other eastern European countries), but they don't exactly fit the stereotype of merely bashing Christianity since their lyrics are very well-written and can be quite intelligent, and oftentimes make little to no mention of Christianity at all. Deathspell Omega is probably the most recognized example of this (particularly their releases from Si Monumentum, Requires, Circumspice onwards, since that is when their current vocalist joined). You can read the lyrics of their releases here if you would like. This interview with them from a few years ago provides some good insight into their mindset.


Also, you have to keep in mind that you can't always know if the band is serious is or not, especially if they make no mention of anything in interviews/on their site/etc. Many times they use lyrics like that as a kind of commentary on the state of Christianity, to express their frustrations with it, and even as satire. There is also the case that they are just doing it for the imagery and aesthetics, or just to be "metal," which in spite of others claiming that this is just immature nonsense, is actually very legimate reasoning since metal--especially the more underground scene (this is also the case with old school hardcore)--has always been very much an anti-establishmental way of creating art, whether it be directly or indirectly. Behemoth would be a good example of this.

While I'm not defending your mother I'm actually more concerned about your well being in this argruement and I agree with what Mave said and I would like to ask have you considered that ,though the art might be good, the music still subconciously might be affecting you someway? Many things, whether it be music or food, can affect us in ways we don't notice.

"Well how does food affect us?"

Well, believe it or not food can affect us in many ways (and here's some obvious examples); For example, chocolate as an aphrodesiac or coffee in perking us up. If you want another example watch "Supersize Me". By the middle of the main character's 30-day junk food diet he had changed from this happy jokey dude to a slowed down and sometimes even depressed state (at which at that point of time he didn't even have anything to be depressed about)

My point is that what we take in can affect us in negotive or positive ways. Another example was a video I was watching on the power of music. There was one scene (now I'm not saying your going to be like this and yes this is extreme but it still happened) that it was talking about the Columbine incident. Aparently the 2 boys who were the kiillers listened to alot of Marilyn Manson and Satanic music.the video then proceded to show clips of the massacre alongside a clip of one of the songs they listended to and it almost mirrored what they were doing. it was talking about shooting people down in hallways, dragging people in the bathroom and killing them, and all sorts of things and these kids did it. (I'm looking for the video right now to show you.)

Also, back in the sixties or seventies (some of you guys might know this song) there was a song that sounded like it was worshipping God but the songwriter did something very wrong and sneaky. He snuck the name krishna in there and in a very covert way, turned the song into a song of worship toward the hindu god krishna (which sounds very much like crishna which people probably thought was worshiping Jesus in some way). My dad didn't even know that this wasn't a christian song until about 30 years later when I told him. But you know what people still sang that song and probably some still do. That songwriter caused people, at least verbally, to worship a hindu god without them eventhinking about it. I bet that messed with alot of poeple's heads when they found out.Some probably even had a phase of hardship and doubt because of it, or maybe even going away from God because of guilt. That song just like other songs messed with people's heads.

Lastly, and I won't be long with this one, but the people doing the documentary even had a interview with one of COUNTRY'S BIGGEST STARS!!! (I think it was Garth Brooks ^-^; ) and he was saying how in his early years that people got so into his songs, that if he told them to put their hands on the big stage lights (you know how some stages have lights on the floor of the stage as well as top) that they would inadvertantly do it.

I know that you like listening to metal. But you've also got to know that as far as music and entertainment goes they do affect us in serious ways, whether know it or not. Now my question to you is, have you ever asked God if anything that you here has been hindering your relationship with him because you know that as a christian anything that hinders your relationship with God you should put away because if don't you might end up going through some hurt or trouble cause of it later, be it spiritually or any other way. If this is hindering you in someway with God please get it out because I'm sure you don't want to be hurting spiritually later brother.

Take this how you want I'm just trying to help you bother. We care about you man and I think that, just like the rest our christian family here online, we don't don't want you to hurt man and we'll be praying for ya, and that you and your family both grow in the Lord in wisdom and knowledge every single day. God bless man!

[mitsuki lover]

That would be George Harrison formerly of the Beatles as in the late
George Harrison.He was a devout Hare Krishna.

Any ways it does sound like the church in this case is a bit cultic in its teachings.When you have a church that tells people that certain things that are otherwise innocent are really 'Satanic' it's a sign that there's a major problem with the church's overall teachings.

Disclaimer,when we were living in western Washington the church we went to was part of what was then called the IFCA,Independent Fundementalist
Churches of America.They were called so because they took the traditional
Fundementalist view of the Bible and Christianity but they were not like this church mentioned in this thread.

[beau99]

That would be George Harrison formerly of the Beatles as in the late
George Harrison.He was a devout Hare Krishna.

Not true. He experimented with it, but turned away from it after the Beatles broke up.

[Nate]

though the art might be good, the music still subconciously might be affecting you someway?

If this is true, then the charge that Christian rock music is satanic is also true.

sometimes even depressed state (at which at that point of time he didn't even have anything to be depressed about)

That's bull. Depression is a clinical condition that has nothing to do with how you eat, it is rather a world view, how you view your own life. Speaking as someone who has mild depression, I can say that with complete certainty. Depression is saying, "Nothing that I do matters." Food cannot give you that kind of thought.

Columbine incident.

I stopped reading here. Anything anyone says about Columbine is total bunk. I've seen the Columbine shootings blamed on: American gun laws, bad parenting, rock music, the video game Doom, goths, anti-depressants, the internet, the movie Natural Born Killers, the movie The Basketball Diaries, etc.

Gee, it'd be nice if we lived in a world where it was clear and obvious why people do things, wouldn't it? Unfortunately we DON'T, and there is no one thing you can point a finger at in Columbine and say "This made them shoot a bunch of people." Maybe they were mentally ill. Maybe they weren't. Maybe they were raised poorly. Maybe they weren't. There are about a thousand different factors that went into what they did, it wasn't just "They listened to music and so they shot people." That's total crap.

That songwriter caused people, at least verbally, to worship a hindu god without them eventhinking about it.

I'm pretty sure if they thought they were worshiping God then God would not hold it against them and say "You THOUGHT you were worshiping me but because of your lack of knowledge of Hindu gods you weren't, SO TO HELL YOU GO!"

Somehow that doesn't sound like God.

he was saying how in his early years that people got so into his songs, that if he told them to put their hands on the big stage lights (you know how some stages have lights on the floor of the stage as well as top) that they would inadvertantly do it.

Wanna bet this would happen with Christian bands? Should we stop listening to Christian music too, then?

as far as music and entertainment goes they do affect us in serious ways, whether know it or not.

Only if you let them, says the guy who's played most of the Grand Theft Auto games and has yet to commit a single crime or even be tempted to commit one.

[Maledicte]

Not true. He experimented with it, but turned away from it after the Beatles broke up.

Also, if what I hear is true, he became a Christian shortly before he died.

[ShiroiHikari]

Actually, Nate, if you don't eat nutritiously and drink enough water, it can exacerbate the symptoms of depression. But this is totally the wrong thread for that discussion.

[Nate]

I am aware that it can exacerbate it but it cannot CAUSE it. That's what I was getting at. XD;;

[Mr. SmartyPants]

That's bull. Depression is a clinical condition that has nothing to do with how you eat, it is rather a world view, how you view your own life.

There is a distinct correlation between carbohydrate-consumption and an increase of Serotonin production in your brain. =p Of course, tons of other psychological and environmental factors can play into it.

...Which has nothing to do with this topic at hand. XD

[Gabriel 9.0]

My mom decided to kick me out of the house for good because she doesn't approve of me listening to Satanic music or anything else that I like (books, movies, anime, video games, whatever....). She claims that it's all bringing evil spirits into the house (including my old Pokemon cards:lol:) and that my 3 year old sister has been seeing "demons" when all they really are are the shadows created by furniture and doors (I've seen her look directly at them when she starts freaking out by them]own pastor[/i] came over as well to try to convince me that I'm wrong. They claim that it's somehow "changed" me and that it's what's been causing my depression (even though that has been going on for even longer than I've been listening to music to begin with; it's most likely chemical imbalances or something of the sort, though I haven't gotten it checked out yet), even though they know and understand me far less than anyone outside of my family does, including my online friends, and they even DARE to say that not only I cannot possibly be a Christian, but EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD who believes the same as me isn't and that we are all damned to hell. My pastor said that he saw "bad vibes" around me or some crap like that, and that it was the same as when he was around "possessed" people. I kept trying to tell them how utterly ridiculous this all was, but they wouldn't listen to a word I said. Mom kept going on about how she "has no choice" and "Oh, I really hate to do this, it hurts me...." blah blah blah, and how I will never have God's blessings in my life unless I bend to their will. I just love how her idea of showing "love" to me is by alienating me from the rest of my family. I wasn't angry when this was going on, but I sure as hell was extremely disappointed that they'd do this to me, although I wasn't at all surprised since I already knew what mom's mindset is, and that it is utterly incompatible with and on a completely different level than my own.

Needless to say, I will no longer have anything to do with that church any more.


I don't know where exactly I'll be staying at now....I'll talk to some people at work and see if we can figure something out. I'm sure they will understand me far better than they ever will.

Wow...........Sometimes the evil one will attack us through family to try to discourage us from following the lord Jesus.
My advice to you is that you pray for that pastor and your mother.
And forgive them and move on with your life.
I'll be praying the situation for you works out.

[firestorm]

If this is true, then the charge that Christian rock music is satanic is also true.

That's bull. Depression is a clinical condition that has nothing to do with how you eat, it is rather a world view, how you view your own life. Speaking as someone who has mild depression, I can say that with complete certainty. Depression is saying, "Nothing that I do matters." Food cannot give you that kind of thought.

I stopped reading here. Anything anyone says about Columbine is total bunk. I've seen the Columbine shootings blamed on: American gun laws, bad parenting, rock music, the video game Doom, goths, anti-depressants, the internet, the movie Natural Born Killers, the movie The Basketball Diaries, etc.

Gee, it'd be nice if we lived in a world where it was clear and obvious why people do things, wouldn't it? Unfortunately we DON'T, and there is no one thing you can point a finger at in Columbine and say "This made them shoot a bunch of people." Maybe they were mentally ill. Maybe they weren't. Maybe they were raised poorly. Maybe they weren't. There are about a thousand different factors that went into what they did, it wasn't just "They listened to music and so they shot people." That's total crap.

I'm pretty sure if they thought they were worshiping God then God would not hold it against them and say "You THOUGHT you were worshiping me but because of your lack of knowledge of Hindu gods you weren't, SO TO HELL YOU GO!"

Somehow that doesn't sound like God.

Wanna bet this would happen with Christian bands? Should we stop listening to Christian music too, then?

Only if you let them, says the guy who's played most of the Grand Theft Auto games and has yet to commit a single crime or even be tempted to commit one.

why are you nitpicking with me, I didn't want to start an argument with you. Let us keep to what this thread was meant for which is helping our brother Eric. I do not want to argue or fight over things like this. I'm just concerned with his situation and state of being (or well being). I don't know about him so I can't speak for him but some people in some areas can't help but be affected this way in things.

I.E. me

I had one of my rough times of doubting God when I read a fantasy book. now there are some people that can handle it and some that can't. I can't handle some fantasy books because of what I went through however I can handle most music (except for secular metal and some rock). i'm just trying to help my brother because I have concern for him so please don't be like that when someone needs our help. Leave that for the threads that are appropriate for that like anything of extended discussion where we can discuss what we all believe. I believe we should be right now helping and praying for Eric right now however we can no matter what our views are. So please let us not start arguements.

[Mave]

Nate, while I get your points, I won't completely overrule the possibilities either. You're right to point out that succumbing to temptation/certain sinful acts isn't an overnight process. As far as I understand, ppl just snap/break down after cumulative influences/pressures [some which could be over many years].

I agree, music is not the ONLY influence in our actions/behavior. However, it remains an influence worth contending for spiritual checks. For some (such as I....hehehe), music has bigger influence on me. In fact, I'm one of those you say who get so caught up in the music technicalities, I have to wonder if I'm really worshipping God through Christian music or just enjoying the music. So, I won't say that in my case, Christian music is Satanic in nature but neither is it, wholly pleasing to God after in-depth investigation of my heart. Good point there.

Now, on the flipside, I don't know if you can confidently claim that "I please God through listening to Satanic music." I can't.

Dear sweet chocolate [thanks RaiRai XD], I'm not going to even comment on Columbine or depression. God knows what exactly happened in those folks and all the more reason, we should pray for Eric and give him encouragement. I doubt music choices are the only factors that is causing this strain in the relationship. I'd rather encourage him to restore the relationship the best he can and to honor his parents within his human capacity. Exactly *how*, I'm in no position for that and I apologize for not being able to comment on that specifically.

I mean, Eric, we're really not expecting you to restore anything overnight and be dancing on the flower fields, hand in hand with your mum/pastor singing, "I love you, you love me. We are happy family lalalala" We just hope that you won't completely give up on the relationships, just because of entertainment choices.

[Tsukuyomi]

The kind that condemns everything that you don't understand.


I'm going to check this out tomorrow. I should hopefully be able to move in on Friday or so. I haven't found anything remotely as good in the area, and the others are all like $500/month or more.

http://madison.craigslist.org/roo/646813780.html


I can move in next week since she'll be out of town this weekend.

I'm sorry, but that link didn't work o.o I wish you the best ^__^

[firestorm]

Nate, while I get your points, I won't completely overrule the possibilities either. You're right to point out that succumbing to temptation/certain sinful acts isn't an overnight process. As far as I understand, ppl just snap/break down after cumulative influences/pressures [some which could be over many years].

I agree, music is not the ONLY influence in our actions/behavior. However, it remains an influence worth contending for spiritual checks. For some (such as I....hehehe), music has bigger influence on me. In fact, I'm one of those you say who get so caught up in the music technicalities, I have to wonder if I'm really worshipping God through Christian music or just enjoying the music. So, I won't say that in my case, Christian music is Satanic in nature but neither is it, wholly pleasing to God after in-depth investigation of my heart. Good point there.

Now, on the flipside, I don't know if you can confidently claim that "I please God through listening to Satanic music." I can't.

Dear sweet chocolate [thanks RaiRai XD], I'm not going to even comment on Columbine or depression. God knows what exactly happened in those folks and all the more reason, we should pray for Eric and give him encouragement. I doubt music choices are the only factors that is causing this strain in the relationship. I'd rather encourage him to restore the relationship the best he can and to honor his parents within his human capacity. Exactly *how*, I'm in no position for that and I apologize for not being able to comment on that specifically.

I mean, Eric, we're really not expecting you to restore anything overnight and be dancing on the flower fields, hand in hand with your mum/pastor singing, "I love you, you love me. We are happy family lalalala" We just hope that you won't completely give up on the relationships, just because of entertainment choices.

I Agree.

[ich1990]

This is a little off topic, but, seeing as how others have covered the majority of OP, I would like to point out my views on this.

as far as music and entertainment goes they do affect us in serious ways, whether know it or not.

Only if you let them, says the guy who's played most of the Grand Theft Auto games and has yet to commit a single crime or even be tempted to commit one.

First, I would like to point out a few verses:

But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him]

You have heard that it was said, 'you shall not commit adultery']

These verses make it pretty clear that God is concerned, not only with what you actually do, but what your motives and internal desires are. Just because you are not knocking off old ladies and stealing their Caddilacs in real life, does not mean that you aren't sinning. Becuase I am not God, I do not know what your motives are, so I will not condemn you for playing GTA4 (in fact, I have heard that is a pretty fun game). I would encourage you, however, to ask yourself why you are playing that game (or, relating to the OP, why you are listening to that cd).

Also, I would like to point out the last part of the above quoted verse. If your right hand makes you stumble, it is better to cut it off! By this standard, giving up a video game or a cd seems pretty tame.

Also, even if the cd/game isn't making you sin, you need to ask yourself, is it really worth my time?

Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

Does music with bad lyrics or GTA fit the bill?

If you can play this game without sinning in your mind or real life, if you have discovered deep spiritual truths in the game (hey, it could happen) thereby considering it worth dwelling on, and you can honor God while playing it, there is still one more thing to consider.

Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.

Whether you like it or not, Nate, you are in a position of responsibility on these boards. As you are easily the most outspoken person here, you undoubtably have an effect on the younger people on these boards (some of whom do not have other positive role models). Please ask yourself, "Do I really want to be endorseing zero media restraint among these people?". It may not be a stumbling block for you, but it could very easily be one for someone else. You need to be mindful of that when you promote something that is of dubious or perhaps even negative spiritual value.

Finally, I do not want to get into an argument with you, I would merely like you to consider and think about what I have said. The same goes for Eric, please think about your media choices.