Marriage Talks and Races relations

[Ingemar]

My opinion?

Follow your parents' desires. Sure they may be listing of a bunch of cruel stereotypes but it is not like stereotypes arise from thin air. Probabilistically speaking, the chances of finding a white American girl who ISN'T shallow, self-centered, obsessed with shopping, and disrespectful of family are very, very, VERY, even quantum-ly low.

[Tsukuyomi]

That last part was a bit confusing, but then it could be this cold that still lingers around ^ ^; Yeah, I get what you're saying. Racism even exist within the same race even.

No no, I didn't mean that being compromised, Rai ^ ^; I meant, that if there is a cross cultural marriage. That , that is compromised (hopes that made sense) ^ ^ Like, having both cultures meet as one ^ ^ So both are integrated into one.. a Union ^ ^

I do agree that that "whit girl" judgment is is racist o.o Applying that kind of thinking to any kind of race is racist, and it should stop. There's good and bad in just about anything. That's why we have to try to get to know that one, not the whole (you know what I mean.. I think o.o).

We should really stop clumping everyone together just because of one thing. It's a bad habit u_u

[Mr. SmartyPants]

However, blanket judgments of "white" girls are racist. I won't compromise on that. Deeply-held, culturally-based, or whatever. Hey, racism was part of the culture in the States in the past, too. There were (and still are, I imagine) people who hold very strongly to such views. Change was and is required. That applies to all situations and all cultures where such unfair views exist. Do such matters need to be handled diplomatically? Absolutely. However, there are places to stand firm and unmoving. That's my point in its entirety.

Yes, I agree with you. Nonetheless, I feel that you cannot put total blame on his parents for the way they think. They don't have the time for you to sit there and show them exactly how they are wrong, they're busy people]Racism is racism is racism whatever the context. The context only determines how it should be addressed. The fact that it must be addressed is self-evident.[/QUOTE]
I tend to disagree with you here. Call an asian person a "chink" and you're bound to be labeled as a racist. Yet for whatever reason, it can be considered a "love-insult" between two Asians.

[Sammy Boy]

Yahshua - no offence, but I think your parents don't know "White" girls.

I recently got married, and it was before I was 29. I married someone of my own ethnic group (Hong Kong Chinese) but that's because we've known each other for a number of years through church, and not because of our same ethnicity or similar reasons.

I think it is a big mistake to generalise. I mean, I know a lot of Chinese parents push their kids real hard and make them do all sorts of extra curricular activities so they can show off to their friends. But does that mean all Chinese parents are like this? No, I don't think so.

I think it's wrong and quite irresponsible to only use negative examples to define how we ought to relate to someone.

I mean, I could say that I know of Taiwanese girls throwing objects at people when they get angry - but I wouldn't say that all Taiwanese girls are like this.

But I'm sure you know all this and are probably exasperated when your parents give you that lecture about "White" girls.

So a few tips I'd like to share, not because I'm an expert, but because I've kinda "been there":

[1]. Pray.

[2]. Show your parents you respect them by voicing that you know they want what's good for you.

[3]. Tell them that disagreement does not mean you have not considered their thoughts - you are a grown man now, you can make your own choices. This is especially difficult for Chinese kids in a sense - now I know not all Chinese parents are like this, but it's kinda dangerous to suggest that your parents might be wrong about stuff. Perhaps avoid using the word "wrong" and say it in another way.

[4]. Remember it is you who is the one getting married - not them. So make sure you find someone that you believe you can stick with for the rest of your life. Carefully consider the opinions and views of those close to you (for they have wisdom and may see some things you can't see after all) - but make the final decision yourself.

This isn't about the individual vs the family/community, but simply that it is both your right and responsibility to find a good girl for yourself.

[5]. Do your best to integrate with the girl's family, and get her to do her best to integrate with yours. Regardless of ethnicity and beliefs, there will always be some differences between two families. No two families ever live and grow up in exactly the same way.

It's good for you both if you try to know each other's families. It makes for a healthier relationship.

[6]. Don't forget to help out with the housework of your own home once you start going with your girl - until you're married, you're still part of the household your grew up in. By doing this, you will show your parents that you're mature and able to take of things around the house.

This in turn will cause them to have more confidence and trust in you (that's the idea, at least).

I pray that all will go well.

[Kaori]

My reaction to your parents’ arguments is mixed. Of course, it is offensive to say that white women are “impure in body and soul.â€

[Ashley]

Since I’m an American, I have a mindset that marriage should be a partnership, and I would expect to continue with my career even if I were to marry;

This makes it sound like all Americans are equal-rights-marriage-opportunists, and I would disagree with that. My school, which is a conservative Christian institute and I think representative of a wide swath of American Christians, is extremely conservative about marriage and purports strict differences in roles for husbands and wives. Some are more strict than others, but in all cases a wife is not free to make household decisions or enter certain vocations (i.e. the pastorate).

I guess what I'm tryinig to say is that a good majority of American Christians have more "set" definitions (and conservative ones at that) of what husbands and wives should be than what you are proposing.

[Mithrandir]

Rather than disagree with the stereotypes, I think I would disagree that some of these stereotypes even exist. I've never heard of white girls "looking down at" Asian men. In the U.S., Asian males make MORE MONEY for the SAME JOB as white males. As with most any stereotype, though, if you disagree, there's not really any point to trying to argue your point.

Case in point:

Some are more strict than others, but in all cases a wife is not free to make household decisions or enter certain vocations (i.e. the pastorate).

I guess what I'm tryinig to say is that a good majority of American Christians have more "set" definitions (and conservative ones at that) of what husbands and wives should be than what you are proposing.

I'm not sure I would say most, in this particular instance. I've lived in a lot of both conservative and non-conservative areas of the country, and I would classify them as simply different ways of looking at things, rather than as broad-ranging theological camps (not that I'm suggesting you are - but it's how many people view it). Kind of like geographical sub cultures, I guess. Another way to think of it might be as a self-fulfilling prophecy. A woman pastor won't really be effective in an area of the country where women pastors aren't accepted.

For those of you who don't understand the context this post comes out of, my adopted mother is a pastor; she's one of the better ones I know. I would go so far as to say she's better at being a pastor than many male pastors I could mention (the church that preaches hate at military funerals springs to mind rather fast). A female pastor is accepted in our geographical area.

Back to my point, did that change anyone's mind? I rather doubt it. That's what I was getting at. People have their own views on things, and it's very rare that any kind of conversation will result from said discussion.

Be who you are. If you find a white woman that you feel God tells you is the right woman for you, well... I'd have to think your parents will still love you if you go against their will in this way. If you don't think they would, then I wouldn't really recommend considering it, if you know what I mean.

[EricTheFred]

This makes it sound like all Americans are equal-rights-marriage-opportunists, and I would disagree with that. My school, which is a conservative Christian institute and I think representative of a wide swath of American Christians, is extremely conservative about marriage and purports strict differences in roles for husbands and wives. Some are more strict than others, but in all cases a wife is not free to make household decisions or enter certain vocations (i.e. the pastorate).

I guess what I'm tryinig to say is that a good majority of American Christians have more "set" definitions (and conservative ones at that) of what husbands and wives should be than what you are proposing.

I'd be careful with that word, 'majority'. I don't doubt that some parts of your statement independently do describe a majority, but I doubt the entire statement is true for a majority. At least, although specific organizations vary, the pastorate is open to most Methodist, Baptist, UCC, and Lutheran women. And because the 'household decisions' part runs contrary to a very specific description of a good wife found in Proverbs (chapter 31), many otherwise very conservative churches do not subscribe to this idea.

But, the general sense of what you are trying to say, that women from the church will often (usually, I hope) not fit the stereotype, rings true, and I hope Yahshua and his parents can realize that. What he needs to look for is not someone of his ethnic, but someone of his faith, regardless of what ethnic she is. My wife and I are of different races, but she grew up Methodist (and the granddaughter of the local UMC minister) and Methodists and Lutherans are very close cousins theologically.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Rather than disagree with the stereotypes, I think I would disagree that some of these stereotypes even exist. I've never heard of white girls "looking down at" Asian men.

I think what he means is that out of all asian/white couples, the man is usually white while the girl is generally asian. (Yellow fever, lulz) It's definitely a lot more rarer to see a couple that has an asian guy and a white girl.

This video: IT SPEAKS THE TRUTH! XD
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FOyRWuklsiQ (Mild Language)

[AsianBlossom]

But we still know couples like that (with an Asian guy and an American girl) exist. A while back, we received a wedding picture from some distant relatives of ours, and the girl had married an Asian guy. So while what you said is "usually" the case, you're also right in saying that couples the other way around exist...they're just not as common.

(My mom also told me the story of her sister's third grade teacher who left America to be the wife of a Japanese guy that she fell in love with when he came to the States, but I just remembered it now and don't want to go back and edit what I just typed above...unless it's GROSSLY inaccurate.)

[Yahshua]

Thank you all for the reply and it get me a lot to think about as of now I don't have a girl in mind that I am chasing after however that been say lately my parents are pushing the idea of that I should married someone of my own "race" which they think would be a good fit for me. But as for me I am open to whatever God has plan for me. Although it seen to many here that my parents seen to be "racists" but in their defendence that they are both pastor and minister they love all people and "races" equally it just with the issue of the marriage and the continue of the family they thought it would be best for me to be married to my own race.

[minakichan]

I am a super-idealist about love, disguised as a heartless cynic, so I'm going to go out and ask-- why do you even need to think about marriage? There is nothing wrong with staying single and focusing on career, ministry, yourself, etc. You're clearly causing yourself and your family a lot of grief talking about it. I know Asian parents can be really big on the traditional family-- which included getting married and having kids just as much as it does keeping everything in the race-- but it's no longer terrible social practice to go the bachelor route (so long as you aren't living in your parents' basement). I think marriage should be reserved to a very specific set of prerequisites, and there are plenty of couples who can't even fulfill those, which results in a lot of unhappy and broken relationships. It's not an issue of "not everyone HAS TO get married" as much as it is one of "not everyone SHOULD get married."

[Tsukuyomi]

I think what he means is that out of all asian/white couples, the man is usually white while the girl is generally asian. (Yellow fever, lulz) It's definitely a lot more rarer to see a couple that has an asian guy and a white girl.

This video: IT SPEAKS THE TRUTH! XD
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FOyRWuklsiQ (Mild Language)

Lol, that video... xDD; That song they played for the black guy.. brings back memories O__O Can't remember the name of it tho >_<

That is true, but there are some cases where a white girl marries an asain guy. Take my brother for instance. He married a Caucasian woman ^ ^ They have two beautiful children ^ ^

Dan, please don't marry just for social status o.o You should marry for love. I know I'm sounding like a mush head, but is there really another reason why two people get married o.o? I'm sure you're parents will except whomever you marry, and if not, then they are really putting the whole "Saving Face" bit before you're happiness :|

That seems to be another thing asian folks dwell on. With my sisters. They had to get married simply because others seen them go out together with this or that guy. Yes, things worked out with my oldest sister, because they knew one another for a while and they did do things the traditional way (him coming to ask my sister's hand in marriage in front of my parents), but not for my older sister. She had second doubts, but no, that didn't matter. Why, do you ask? Because, they were seen together. If they don't marry then that will make the parents look bad. How did things turn out you ask? They divorced u_u/

Ok, that was a bit off topic, but that is what is going to happen if you don't marry who you really want to marry and give in to others. Why they think you should get married and to whom (sorry if that didn't make sense. That video is still flashing in my mind lol).

[Yahshua]

Well for in Taiwanese culture it seen that everyone should get married some point in the life as I am about to be 29 soon so they as my parents think it is time to have the talks about it because of the fact that my father married my mother when he was at the end of 28 years old and entering into 29. And as for my parents has to say they can't always be there for me and what they would wish for is that someone will be there for me phsycially and emotionally.

[Maledicte]

Date a black girl. XD Just kidding.

Dan, your parents don't want you to marry a white girl because they think she'll be shallow and break your heart. You, on the other hand, want to marry a white girl because she'll get your foot in the door in social situations. So a Christian white girl in your opinion won't break your heart and will make your social life easier.

I see this going badly both ways. There's no God or love involved.

You seem set on white girls. But what if you fall in love with a girl who is Mexican, Italian, Indian, or Filipino? It doesn't sound like you have a specific girl in your life that would cause this discussion, only hypothetical dates.

I understand where you're coming from, though (gee thanks, requisite ethnicity college courses). This requires prayer, and lots of it.

[Yahshua]

I wouldn't say I have set my mind on just "White" Girl but I am just saying it would be useful in certain social situation where she would helps me to understand the other side. And I am open to all "races" but the thing is that with my parents they their feeling is that I should only choose someone whom is in my own "race". Again I know that in order to get married you have to love that person so I just don't want to be limited to just one "race" only.

[Ingemar]

Have you considered bachelorhood?

[ShiroiHikari]

[quote="Mr. SmartyPants (post: 1208228)"]They don't have the time for you to sit there and show them exactly how they are wrong, they're busy people]

How is being busy or supposedly not having enough time an excuse to unfairly generalize about a group of people? In my book, there is really no excuse to say and think such things. Furthermore, how do you know that his parents are "busy"? I'm sure they probably are from time to time, but what does that have to do with anything?

[Mr. SmartyPants]

My point is that they may not really care whether or not they are right or wrong. I don't think that convincing them that their generalizations are incorrect will really change their viewpoint on what is best for Dan, hence why it would still be a waste of time unless it is your goal to show them that their generalizations are wrong.

I have the feeling many of you see it like "Dan's parents find white girls to be bad, immoral, and self-centered and that is why they don't want him to marry a white girl."

I see it as "Dan's parents don't want him to marry a white girl because of their traditional beliefs, and they use their own biases/excuses (whether or not they believe the generalizations to be true) to further attempt to sway him from his own desires."

I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but that's my take on it.

[Kaori]

This makes it sound like all Americans are equal-rights-marriage-opportunists, and I would disagree with that.

It does, doesn’t it? That’s what I get for posting late at night; sorry. You’re right, of course; there are many Americans who are complimentarian. Let me clarify that statement a bit more: I find myself emotionally leaning towards egalitarianism more because I am an American (it is normal and acceptable for women to work, even after marrying) than because I am a Christian (at the Christian college where I went, there were many Christians on both sides of the egalitarian/complimentarian argument, and I’ve heard the arguments for both sides many times).

[Maledicte]

I am open to all "races" but the thing is that with my parents they their feeling is that I should only choose someone whom is in my own "race". Again I know that in order to get married you have to love that person so I just don't want to be limited to just one "race" only.

Ah, alright. Gotcha.

This sounds a lot like a Dat Phan comedy bit. "Why you date the white girl? Why don't you date the little Asian girls, small, compact...what's she trying to do, sell me a car?"

[Angel Tifa]

no offence, your parents seem to be the shallow ones, and quite racist as well.

I'm afraid I have to agree with what King Atlantis said. It does sound very racist of your parents. Besides all the thigs they described white women don't even come close to describing how I am as a caucassian woman myself.

Now I do consider myself quite the traditionalist, but I hardly see race and the color of ones skin any relevance to tradition and family values if you know what I mean XD.

Now what I think is that you do want a good Christian woman if you want to live a Christian life, but color of skin, nationality, or appearance do not equal personality. That's just beyond narrow minded of anybody to abide by that if you ask me .

[Tyrel]

Well, I might be coming in a little late here. I must say I agree most adamantly with most of what Mr.Smartypants has said. Culture shock is going to be a big deal. I would recommend playing it by ear. This may sound odd, but what I mean is, try not to aim for either goal {a white girl, or an asian} and simply try to aim for the girl who you think is best suited for you. Try not to think of marrying a white Girl as more practical. I don't think it is, even in the U.S. and I know it's not here in Canada.

Also, your parents are racist, but that's not strictly speaking a bad thing. I'm Canadian, so I know well the taboo here when speaking about this, but I think I admit and like that I am racist in one sense. I often recognize arabs and appreciate the culture very much. I try to respect them by following suit with their norms so as to make them feel appreciated and not disrespect them. I won't, for instance, greet the woman of the house as the French will typically here in Quebec, by kissing both cheeks, or even shaking her hand. This is because those things are, to them, considered extremely offensive things to do, and because of that, I will not do them at all. That is by definition discriminating based on ethnicity, and it's the right thing to do more often than not. Now, negative discrimination is not what I'm standing for at all, but a healthy recognition of ethnic differences between people and hopefully a true appreciation for them is not a bad thing; it's rightly in order.

I think you should appreciate what your parents are saying and of course try to understand where they are coming from. Just the same, Try to just keep an eye open for any girl.. who knows, you might even end up with a Jamaican for all you know. In any case, keep your values in mind.

The things you should keep in mind are probably the following;


[INDENT]Core Value Sets
Do you share the same morals and ideals, or are they at least compatible? Christianity is likely a good criterion for this, but cannot be the only one, as Christianity is very broad.

Cultural compatibility
Does her culture, or your culture, make your marriage and being together difficult for others and/or for yourselves? Can you effectively share each others cultures and appreciate them, along with passing each on to your children so as to enrich them with both?

practical compatibility
Is there some other element which makes the prospect impossible or terribly inconvenient in any variety of ways?[/INDENT]


Other than that, I wish you luck.

[EricTheFred]

Tyrel,
I think you need to understand the difference between 'Racist' and 'Culturally sensitive'. It is not 'Racism' to recognize that different people grew up with different sensibilities and codes of conduct. It is simply common courtesy, and a good way to promote harmony in a multi-cultural society.

This is not even remotely the same as what Yahshua's parents were doing. They were desparaging the morals and character of all women of a particular color. That cannot be called anything but Racism or Bigotry, which can only be fought when people are willing to stand up and name it so, without hesitation. That is what you have been seeing people do here.

I have a simple test to see if a particular thing in racist. Imagine the person who says the thing as Caucasian. If the statement was about a Caucasian imagine it was about some other ethnic. Then imagine whether or not the statement would elicit outrage.

If the answer is yes (and it certainly is. Imagine if Yahsua were white, and his parents were saying these things about Asian women? Or African? Hispanic?) then the statement is racist.

[starwarsboy90]

I'm coming way late into this conversation. As a Historian, I'm an Anthropologist; meaning I learn different cultures and their customs. To me, race doesn't matter; only values and soul matters. We are stereotypical as humans, mostly sinful in our desires and decisions. Anyways before I decide to lecture on that; just simply do what Tyrel stated; don't do either option. Just follow your heart. My parents for example will support me in any decision I make, even if they don't agree with it. I'm pretty close to my parents, so I'll listen to their advice, but it doesn't mean that I have to or should follow it.

[Nia-chan]

I'm sorry, but I'm just curious - are black girls included in the "white girl" category? I wasn't sure if "white girl" stood for Americans in general or specifically white.

[Yahshua]

Eh "White" girl as just specifically "White".

[mitsuki lover]

I think that in the end it is still a person's decision who they marry when they get above the age of majority.His parents may have stereotypical ideas about white women but still it is his decision on who he shall marry in the end.
Unless you are from a culture that still practices arranged marriages you really shouldn't allow your parents thinking to hinder you from having a relationship with someone outside of your race,if that is the direction you feel you are going.
You can respect them and still disagree with their opinion.
On the other hand you should also be aware of what you are getting into.
Be sure to check out her family to make sure that THEY don't have any problems with HER marrying you.After all it is not just Asians that object to their children marrying outside of their race.
As my mom always says:"You're not just marrying the person,you are also marrying their family."
btw:For years miscegnation was illegal in America,but especially in the south.
As far as it goes it wouldn't matter to me what the race of the woman I married was as long as she was the right woman.

[Mave]

27, Chinese, lived in the U.S. for 6 years, I think I can somewhat relate/understand the topic.

First, IMO, we need not get so upset with the racist comment. I am guilty of it and even more so my parents, with all due respect. Our perception is driven by our traditional beliefs. I`d loved to see if anyone here dares to proclaim that they`re completely NOT racist. I`m definitely racist to a certain degree but I`m also working on undoing it. It`s a work in progress for all of us so chill....XD

My Asian parents pride themselves based their children`s success. One form of measurement is their kids` education and career. A good marriage is another. I have friends who are presssured to find good husbands\wives by the age of 25 so I can understand how it feels to be in that awkward position.

I`ve had friendly debates with my parents on Caucasian, Japanese, British, Korean, Indian, African American, Malay, Chinese men etc.etc. Oh those are always fun because I spent so much time refuting heavy stereotyping. Do I blame my parents? Not really, they haven`t had the opportunity to meet many ppl from different races, wihch God has blessed me multiple times with. I mean, they never met a Japanese guy their whole life, for example. Their intentions for me as their daughter are good, it`s just that their source of references isn`t the greatest. One single case study from your parent`s friend\FOF doesn`t immediately extrapolate to the whole majority, you know.

So, I see it as my job to educate and raise awareness about other races in my parents/friends. My approach is very similar to Ultra Magnus, which has been successful in my case. There are nice ways to getting the message through to your parents without seeming disrespectful.

And really, there is a time for everything. Must you marry very soon? It can`t hurt to question your motivations. Do you think God wants you to do what you`re being pressured to do now? I`ve been asking the same question too but I`ve found my peace and strength going against the grain through God. He`ll take care of this issue for you as long as you surrender it to Him.

Cheers, brother~　

[Yahshua]

Eh I don't think I am ready for a marriage type of a relationship with anyone at the moment. As I say I am about to be 29 years old which in the eyes of my parents are that I am ready for marriage. As for my parents they are not ultra traditionalist type of parents that says that wife should have certain roles in her life. But for my parents point of view they always say that life should be about one faith one Lord one savior One husband One Wife and until death due each other apart. And that leads to my parents' worry about married to a "White" girl. That means that with my parents they seen to see that with a "White" Girl she would have an unrealistic ideal of what love should be. Which for them the love is an commitment and responsibility toward one another. And with the "White" Girl they think that the "White" Girl might not have a realistic idea about love. And they say that "White" Girl"s love is that romantic types of love. Which is unrealistic in nature for my parents. Also they also worry about the issues of her parents and family for them it might be a downgrade instead of upgrade for the family. So with that my parents think it might be safe for me to married within my "race".