Homeschooling in California......

[Danderson]

Has anyone heard about this yet?.....They just ruled in the courts in California like at the end of Feburary, that for someone to homeschool their kids, they have to have the "right credientials" for teaching....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/07/MNJDVF0F1.DTL

Being homeschooled all my life, I can't see what I'd become had I been enrolled in public or even private school. Not that public and private school students are all evil......heck, a majority of my Christian friends go to either a public or private school and their still amazing Brothers and Sisters.....

It's just the whole thing of how our parents are slowly losing the rights given to them by God to choose what's best for their kids.....whether it be public schooling, private schooling, private tutoring, or homeschooling.......and I just think it's real creepy that things are starting to turn out like this.......

Note: PLEASE....let us not start a debate with this thread.....thank u.....

[beau99]

The judge made the ruling based on the fact that many homeschooled kids have abusive parents. Not all of them of course, but many do.

Not to mention that homeschooled kids don't get to have friends their age.

I wholeheartedly support the ruling, based on what I've said here.

[Shao Feng-Li]

What a ton of bull crap.

And who says home schooled kids don't get to have friends their age? Not to mention I didn't even have friends in public school. And what about the kids in public school with abusive parents? People consider spanking to be abusive, remember?

This is so not even the State's business- telling parents how to raise their own children... I wanna say so much, but the thread will just get locked...

Gah! *strangles someone*

[Cognitive Gear]

I think this is ridiculous. I was ina an Independant Study Program for my high School years, meaning that I had no teacher at all, just someone to grade the tests and papers. I graduated just fine.

Why is it that the government insists on restricting everyone to the lowest common factor?

[Raiden no Kishi]

The judge made the ruling based on the fact that many homeschooled kids have abusive parents.

: : holds up "[citation needed]" sign : :

Not to mention that homeschooled kids don't get to have friends their age.

Meanwhile, in the real world, there are PLENTY of homeschooled students (myself included) who have VERY loving parents, and nearly ALL of them "get to have friends their age," thank you. There are also plenty of public or private school students with abusive/apathetic parents, and plenty of them who have all the WRONG friends.

Maybe some more research would be in order before you support the condemnation of a group of people who are by and large made up of people who care, no? The more you know . . .

Plus, the whole idea of the government being in charge of what children are taught has a slightly Orwellian flavor. : : shrugs : :

.rai//

[AJV]

I've been home schooled all my life and I turned out just fine.
Though I've met a lot of people who were in public school (no offence to those of you who go to public school) who didn't.
Like my friend, who couldn't have more than one friend at a time and would totally ignore me when he was with someone else.
Or my little cousin, who can't even talk to me.

Most of them are clicky,rude, and have no social skills (especially when it comes to younger and older people).

Also, what is the big deal about having friends in high school.
It's good to have friends, but it can be hard to find friends who won't pull you down.
Being home schooled helps you be more creative when you're not wasting your time climbing the social ladder. Take me for example: I have many different avenues to choose from like filming,art,design,and etc...
While other people I know might not have even had the chance to really to find their talents and don't have the slightest idea of what they want to be.

So don't believe everything you hear.
Those rumors have been around for years.

And that's my two cents.

[ShiroiHikari]

Ah, California, what are we going to do with you?

[Technomancer]

The Second District Court of Appeal ruled that California law requires parents to send their children to full-time public or private schools or have them taught by credentialed tutors at home.

For the sake of curiosity (and calmness), what constitutes a "credentialed tutour"?. It ought to be clear that there should be some minimum standards both of instruction and for instructors when it comes to home schooling. Whatever the reason that parents make for taking such a step, their children also have the right to a good education. In order to ensure this, there should be some way of seeing to it that the instructors are able to provide it. That many parents might be qualified to teach is not guarantee that all are, nor without such a rule is there any way of determining who is.

Plus, the whole idea of the government being in charge of what children are taught has a slightly Orwellian flavor. : : shrugs : :

I don't see how. In order to function in society, you have to have a certain minimal set of skills. In order to function successfully, and to have a range of choices in both your career and your life as a citizen, you have to go beyond that. Every child should be able to receive a good education that encompasses a braod range of foundational subjects, and it is in every citizen's interest to see that he or she does get such an education.

[Shao Feng-Li]

Government giving education isn't the problem (doesn't have to be), it's that they won't allow the parents to give education and that's kinda where this seems to be going.

*needs to read 1984 before its banned*

[bakura_fan]

I had to be homeschooled because my parents had the house for sale and didn't want to have to uproot me if we had to move during the school year. Well, I homeschooled through 6-7th grade down in CA. And it was fine. I actually preferred it over the Christian school I had attended since Kindergarten (teachers and parents and kids were all cliqueish and horrible. My one day off from the torment was sat because the kids who teased me whent to the same church that I did...oh the fond memories..ugh). Then they were going to put me in highschool after moving, but were told not to because the HS had a really bad rep. So, when I began my eleventh year, one month afterward, I quit and instead took college courses full time because of the prgram running start. I graduated with my AA at the same time that my friends were graduating high school. To me, without homeschooling, I most likely would have been behind and never been ahead because I had such low self esteem being in school that it was easier for me to concentrate on my school work and learn my way, then be taught in a generic way. Not all kids benefit from the social factor. I hope that this plan doesn't go too far (I can understand maybe checking the parents basic knowledge, but not exactly sure how far they might go if it goes through.)

[goldenspines]

Taking my state for example (I do not know how other states deal with this issue, though), there's a yearly test that is given to all home schoolers depending on their registered grade level. It is much like a standard achievement test that is given to public school students. This way, the state government knows which child is being taught properly or not by how the students score on these tests. And if they suspect some parents are not teaching their child well, then they can investigate into it.
I will also add that the article only addresses the issue of one family, if I'm correct in reading it. So only one home schooling family represents all of the others in California? Seems a bit unjust, but yet, life can be unfair, I will admit.

Shao and Rai summed up anything else I was going to add.
And Beau, please don't throw such strong comments out unless you have proof backing them.

[/my two cents]

[mechana2015]

I agree with Technomancer on this. No matter how much one may like homeschooling... there needs to be a minimum set of requirements. The ruling itself does seem a little harsh, but there is a point to be had in that its a re-iteration of a law from 1958.

Some people just aren't cut out to teach, or prepared to do so, to be frank, and I can see where this might come into question if someone were to take a hard look at some of the programs students follow. I know people from both sides of the education spectrum who have received poor results, including homeschool students who haven't done school for weeks at a time (a basic ability for college is continuous workflow) or home schoolers who are considered home based daycare or maids by their parents (and aren't able to get appropriate workloads finished). I've also met public school students who refused to participate in classes or ditched a lot, mostly issues of a personal or parental nature though.

California is consistently ranked in the high 40s of the 50 states for quality of education (47, 46, 45 usually), and while many here may be the exception, education wise, its a serious concern regarding ALL students being taught at least to a minimum set of standards over the whole state.

With regards to the public school social ladder bit... its optional as far as I've seen, and I've seen just as much clique-iness among home schooled students as public school educated ones.

[Roy Mustang]

Taking my state for example (I do not know how other states deal with this issue, though), there's a yearly test that is given to all home schoolers depending on their registered grade level. It is much like a standard achievement test that is given to public school students. This way, the state government knows which child is being taught properly or not by how the students score on these tests. And if they suspect some parents are not teaching their child well, then they can investigate into it.

Georgia is the same way.

Not to mention that homeschooled kids don't get to have friends their age.

This is not true at all. I was home school and I knew a few others that were home school and they had friends their age. So, I echo what goldenspines said.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

Please don't

[Fish and Chips]

They just ruled in the courts in California like at the end of Feburary, that for someone to homeschool their kids, they have to have the "right credientials" for teaching....

I'm not sure I see the problem here.

[Solid Ronin]

I'm not sure I see the problem here.

I believe people are seeing it as a way to jack around with home schooling parents and trying to force their kids into public school.

[Roy Mustang]

I'm not sure I see the problem here.

Same here, really. Georgia and few other southern states have a law that one of the parent must have the right credientials, before teaching the child.

[color="Red"][font="Book Antiqua"]Col. Roy Mustang[/font][/color]

[Tsukuyomi]

I've seen this sort of argument before u_u Not just seen, but been in one. It's not fun. There's pro and cons to either side of the spectrum. Maybe yes, maybe no. We don't know unless we're in the actual situation will we? Why can't there ever be a compromise with these sorts of things u_u Home schoolers rag on public school goers and public school goers rag on home schoolers u_u

I'm not sure why, but I kinda think they are doing this so they can keep an eye on everyone. They can't do that with the students that are home schooled. You know how the government has to see everything ~(O__O)~

(Hope that came out right)

[Cognitive Gear]

I'm not sure I see the problem here.

The problem here is that for someone like myself who was self taught through High School would not be able to do such a thing. Also, while I think that a test to ensure that they at least know what they are teaching would certainly be a good thing, I don't think that requiring teaching credentials is the right road.

EDIT: To reiterate, I'm not against the concept itself, rather this implementation of it. I feel that the concept is important, as it will prevent the unfortunate production of ill-prepared Christian young men and women. I've seen many young adults who were too sheltered as home schoolers loose their faith almost the moment they set foot in a secular college.

[Tsukuyomi]

Compromise people.. COMP-PRO-MISE D:<

[beau99]

Wow, I didn't know my statement of facts would cause such a stir.

I've seen it myself, MANY times.

Just because you haven't DOESN'T mean I'm lying.

[Fish and Chips]

The problem here is that for someone like myself who was self taught through High School would not be able to do such a thing. Also, while I think that a test to ensure that they at least know what they are teaching would certainly be a good thing, I don't think that requiring teaching credentials is the right road.

EDIT: To reiterate, I'm not against the concept itself, rather this implementation of it. I feel that the concept is important, as it will prevent the unfortunate production of ill-prepared Christian young men and women. I've seen many young adults who were too sheltered as home schoolers loose their faith almost the moment they set foot in a secular college.

Now this I can side with.

[rii namuras]

[color="Red"](I heard about this right when it was ruled, mainly because I have a dozen or so [homeschooled] friends in California. I'm not entirely sure what to make of it. I can't speak for other states, but in Florida you have to either have teaching credentials, follow a public school's curriculum, or have a certified teacher test you every year. In New Jersey you had to take the test mentioned earlier. Both states were pretty educated about homeschoolers, and I rarely got the usual stupid questions, but was always viewed as super-smart.)

(And the "no friends their age" argument is bull, and anyone who dares to make that argument has not met the majority of homeschoolers. Especially not my siblings. I fall under that category, though, mainly because all my friends were either younger or [far more commonly] older than me.)[/color]

[Warrior4Christ]

I'm not against the idea at all. The parents demonstrate a reasonable level of teaching ability, get their qualification, then get back to teaching their kids. Easy.

I don't know that much about it, but the implementation of it may not be as nice...

[Shao Feng-Li]

People don't seem to get that it's really none of the government's business...

And Beau99

"Not to mention that home schooled kids don't get to have friends their age."

That wasn't a fact.

The State is wrong to simply assume that home schooled kids are abused and parents don't need to be all that skilled in teaching. Ever seen how self teaching these text books can be? The Saxon Math system was designed so that no teacher is needed.

Guilty until proven innocent is BACKWARDS.

(And for the record, I've got nothing against public schools either. Some are great and some are just awful. I even wanted to go to high school my last year but it didn't work out- kids can turn out bad if they were put in school or home schooled. After all, no one can make us or make us do anything...)

[Ashley]

Guys, let's make sure to keep this nice and friendly.

And while I'm here,

I don't see how. In order to function in society, you have to have a certain minimal set of skills. In order to function successfully, and to have a range of choices in both your career and your life as a citizen, you have to go beyond that. Every child should be able to receive a good education that encompasses a braod range of foundational subjects, and it is in every citizen's interest to see that he or she does get such an education.

I don't think that's the issue here. If parents didn't want their children to function as citizens, they wouldn't teach them at all. Or, look at the Amish--they are given a 6th or 8th grade education level [I can't remember which] because their parents have a different set of values and standards for them as citizens than the government does.

I think the real issue is one of ownership--who has the right to educate a child, a parent or a state? Even if a child is enrolled in public schooling, parents still have the responsibility to make sure that their child is succeeding, learning, and correct their education when it teaches them things contrary to the Word of God.

I agree that it would be best to make sure these children really are receiving an education--but this can be accomplished without taking away the right of parents to provide it. I disagree with the ruling not because it is based on faulty premises (such as the expectation of children to have a minimum skill set) but because it takes away parental rights and hands them over to the state.

[Fish and Chips]

People don't seem to get that it's really none of the government's business...

Then we should cut all government spending on education.

I'm not against homeschooling or self-taught environments, but I believe the government of any nation has the right to check that its citizens are receiving proper education. And please, no brainwashing jokes. They're not funny.

[Mithrandir]

Hmm...

I can think of many people who have graduated via the California public school system that are not able to read, write, or do even basic math.

I can not think of any home schooled kids that I would say this about - and I know quite a few.

Over 10,000 teachers in California just got a pink slip. The state is entering a pretty nasty budget year (and possible more to come). There will be a LOT of fall out from this, but it won't affect home schooled kids. That sounds like a pretty clear win to me.

Besides, it's not like the ENTIRE state believes this nonsense...

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=218436

[ShiroiHikari]

Sounds to me like California needs to re-prioritize. Instead of spending all this time, money, and effort trying to choke out homeschooling, maybe they should work on their public schools a little. It just sounds like a double standard to me.

Also, just because someone is "qualified" to teach doesn't mean they're any good at it. There are plenty of bad teachers in the system.

[AsianBlossom]

I was going to say...with the way that the school system is grossly underfunded (and with the lay-offs that Mithrandir noted) it seems kind of strange that they would want ALL of their children in the public school system at this time. It sems like it would be a greater concentration of students per teacher, and that's not how it should be. That's like big state colleges, and students shouldn't have to deal with that stuff until they graduate highschool...at least, that's just my opinion.

Frankly, I've been homeschooled for all of my years of tutelage, save kindergarten, five weeks of first grade, and the two semesters I've spent in college so far. I'm in a public, secular college right now, and I don't really think that I've lost my Faith. Granted, I was a little shy from the homeschooling, but my mom had me run a few errands when I was finishing 12th grade, and now I'm not really too shy anymore. And yes I had friends. Not many (some might think me weird, and "homeschooling" was sort of a stigma that made certain kids not want to talk with you), but I still had (and have) some friends. This includes all you nice people on here.

So I'm sort of mixed about this law. Yes, perhaps parents should be "prepared" to teach their children, but to stick ALL homeschoolers whose parents don't have "teaching" degrees back in school just because of that? Nonsense! My mom's not a teacher but she has two batchelor of science degrees and made a splendid teacher (not to mention we were using a curriculum from an accredited online school). But yeah, not everyone should suffer because of a few families, right?

[Shao Feng-Li]

Then we should cut all government spending on education.

I'm not against homeschooling or self-taught environments, but I believe the government of any nation has the right to check that its citizens are receiving proper education. And please, no brainwashing jokes. They're not funny.

That's not what I meant... *Train of thought derails...*