Concerning reptiles and the Bible...

[Momo-P]

You always hear people coupling creatures with satan (black cats get killed a lot because of this type of junk), but reptiles probably take it the worst. From the serpent in the Garen of Eden to the dragon mentioned in Revelations...are reptiles really suppose to be hated like some Christian groups say?

As you can tell from my avatar, I am a huge fan of Dragon Ball, and of course, dragons play a huge part. Putting that aside though...sheesh. Just reptiles in general--they're my favorite animal! Reptiles and aquatic animals are so beautiful to me...they look so alien compared to everything else on this planet, sometimes I wish I could just go back in time for awhile. Just to really see a dinosaur.

However, I also worry sometimes. We've all met them or heard them, the Christians who will seriously treat you like the spawn of satan just for liking anything "dragon-like"...but is there truely any reason to hate them? I mean, God made reptiles and "dragons" (I have a feeling they were just dinosaurs), so it's not like they actually belong to the devil. It's really not their fault one of their own kind was a moron and followed God's enemy.

Basically I just wanted to hear what other people had to say. Course while I'm at it, weren't other creatures associated with the "dragon" in revelations? What I mean is, didn't the creature have the tail of another animal and all this stuff? In a way I suppose I also want to ask this to help back myself up when I DO run into those people who want to rip me down. It's good to be able to defend your beliefs. ^^;

[Fish and Chips]

You are probably thinking of the Beast from the Sea and the Beast from the Earth.

And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"

Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men

[Gabriel 9.0]

Well God created reptiles as well( dinosaurs, dragons etc. The beast and dragon scriptures in Revelation refer to the future counterfeit church that is going to rise up for the Anti Christ and his leader Satan in a attempt to destroy all who truly serve God. Of course this will indeed fail.
Some people are just mean and negative....And want the rest of us to be miserable. I myself plan to get a King Snake for my bro and perhaps a pet Turtle for me. I really see nothing wrong in liking lizards, reptiles. The Enemy just used the innocent Snake, just like he did with our ancestors Adam and EVE. However he'll soon be punished by our great God for all the wrongdoing he has caused on this planet.

[Tyrel]

Not to inspire debate, or seem overtly liberal, but I think the problem here, in principle, is that people misunderstand {in my opinion} Genesis, to be literal, and thus make faulty inferences doing themselves a great disfavor, and doing the Word of God a disfavor, as well intentioned as they are.

There is no problem with reptiles, and the Demonic may be alluded to with physical images {though I don't think Satan is seen as the serpent outside of Genesis, and within the Tenak, and I think the serpent played a very symbolic role in Genesis, which many simply don't see, and believe a snake actually spoke to Eve without her finding it strange}, just as the Angels and even God himself, have been alluded to using physical Images, such as in Ezekiel and Zechariah. However, nothing here is physical, or should be thought of in a physical sense. Lizards are as much God's creation as Pigs, wolves, you and I. Those who find a problem with dragons and other mythological creatures, generally find associations they seem to imply, and then extrapolate from that an argument whereby they simply demonize the image itself.

The same can be done, and I've seen it done, for Drums, arguing that Rock uses African American Drums, and of course they are all evil because of their Voodoo background, and as we all know, Voodoo is not a religion, but rather it's just a terrible satanic ritualized expression of evil. {*rolls eyes so far back into head he almost dies*}.

Point is, that sort of paradigm comes almost exclusively from legalistic literalists, and I think I Identify that as the source of the problem. Having said that, I do recognize more than readily that many literalists are not of any dissenting opinion concerning this issue, anymore than most of them are about the sky being water, but that point being conceded, I still argue that the legalistic and literalistic approach to the Word of God, in principle, is solely responsible for this opinion concerning reptiles. Wanting to be a Theologian myself, I know I would have a difficult time arguing from a literalists position, given the points some of the brilliant theologians who believe reptiles are in the image of Satan, that they are wrong. In fact, I don't know if I could do it at all. So no, in my very opinionated opinion, Reptiles are certainly not evil or filthy or anything of the sort. To recognize beauty in them is to recognize beauty in a painting; you are implicitly congratulating the painter. To enjoy beautiful artwork of Dragons and unicorns, is not harmful dangerous or anything of the sort. They carry with them no such symbolism as some would like to imagine, they are simply generally regarded as magnificent creatures of mythology.

[Kaligraphic]

Animals, being part of creation, are designed to declare the glory of God. Therefore, it is not evil to like any particular animal. Except maybe marmots, because they're creepy*.

* Note: marmots are not actually evil.

[ChristianKitsune]

XD what a wierd topic!

I have never ever met a Christian that hates reptiles or thought they were evil.. :/ The closest thing I have seen people hate dragons is only in the game, "dungeons and dragons."

O_o I do know people who are just scared of reptiles because they are creepy to them. AKA Snakes.

but like a few have said, God created reptiles so they aren't evil.

^^; Don't worry so much! XDDDDD

[Technomancer]

You always hear people coupling creatures with satan (black cats get killed a lot because of this type of junk), but reptiles probably take it the worst. From the serpent in the Garen of Eden to the dragon mentioned in Revelations...are reptiles really suppose to be hated like some Christian groups say?

Like Tyrel and others have said, reptiles are simply animals and are a part of creation. They cannot be evil, or "follow Satan", owing to the straightforward fact that they're incapable of any sort of higher reasoning. The imagery that exists in the Bible plays on well established (and pre-existing) human fears of snakes and other reptiles in order to communicate an idea.

On the subject of reptiles, some of you might also be interested in learning that Sir David Attenborough (he narrated 'Planet Earth') is preparing a new nature series, 'Life in Cold Blood' which will cover reptiles and amphibians.

[AsianBlossom]

People have already said what I was going to say, about the whole "they're God's creatures" thing and that people wrongfully attribute them to the devil. The same goes with other animals, like goats and horned owls. I'm not crazy about goats, but I think owls are cute and interesting animals. I also love little lizards like geckos and anoles (they're sooooo cute!!! Especially the tiny ones ^.^)

Since God made them, they all belong to Him. End of story.

I think the same goes for colors as well. God created all the colors, so declaring a certain color as "evil" isn't right either. Like, saying that red, green and purple (Disney villain colors), and black are all "evil" colors seems kind of pointless to me.

[termyt]

Have you all gone mad??

Clearly all reptiles are tools of the devil and should be killed on sight!

The Sixth chapter of Hezekiah clearly implies that reptiles are to be shunned as tools of the devil. I suggest you look it up immediately!

[ChristianKitsune]

Have you all gone mad??

Clearly all reptiles are tools of the devil and should be killed on sight!

The Sixth chapter of Hezekiah clearly implies that reptiles are to be shunned as tools of the devil. I suggest you look it up immediately!

LOL XDDDD
You're right! it DOES XD

there's your answer

[USSRGirl]

No, no, Termyt! That's a prophetic foreshadow that lead to the Barney-is-the-antichrist conspiracy site! XP

Don't have much to add to this topic that hasn't already been said, but as Tyrel stated, every single passage of the Bible is not meant to be taken dead literally (and even if you are a literalist, I don't really see where the problem would arise as you would only be reading it as Satan taking on the guise of a snake - not snakes themselves being evil, or all reptiles of that matter). Genesis is largely written in a Hebraic poetry format (do not confuse this with me saying it's fabricated or untrue), the serpent representing cunning/evil/ect. Coincidentally, I was doing some research on Genesis and found a site on ancient Hebrew with the original text, which translated back came more closely to implying 'a being of light'/an angel/fallen angel than a serpent (I'm no Hebrew expert, but if I find the site again I'll post it up) implying that the serpent might be more strongly metaphoric.

As for the leviathan symbolism and the beast of the sea/earth/red dragon stuff, if you took every prophetic passage that literally you'd have to be expecting Jesus to come back with a literal sword coming out of His mouth and a whole bunch of other oddities. I think the OT backs up the case of symbolic prophecy pretty strongly - just look at some of the prophets, like say Daniel interpretting Nebuchanazzer's (sp?!?!) dream about the statue to refer to kingdoms to come, and not "Uh... well, Neb, you're gonna be attacked by a giant man-eating... er... statue... thing... yeah."

Animals are not 'evil' in any way. They're God's creation, and I believe He uses them to teach us lessons about Himself, such as humility, dependence, ect. The whole black cat thing has nothing to do with Christianity, and comes from pagan roots. >.>;; Same with reptiles, although this is the first I really heard of reptile dislike having an religious connotations. Unfortunately, it's common in this lil' backwoods hick town that I begrudgingly call home for people to dump/abandon/kill black dogs and cats by the truckload, and there's no justifaction for that - definitely not any you'll find in the Bible.

[Danderson]

Not to inspire debate, or seem overtly liberal, but I think the problem here, in principle, is that people misunderstand {in my opinion} Genesis, to be literal, and thus make faulty inferences doing themselves a great disfavor, and doing the Word of God a disfavor, as well intentioned as they are.

Funny...I've always believed the six days of Creation are PURE fact....but never did I find reptiles evil just becuase that was what satan did to the First Born. Nor have I run into any Christians who think reptiles are evil (now I have run into Christians who think they're creepy....and not one of them is a guy...)...

Also, notice that the Bible has compared both God and Satan to certain characteristics of a Lion....God as being the "Lion of Judah" and Satan as "one who prowls around like a Lion."

I think it just makes it easier for us to envision certain things when they are compared to something that we can relate to....Like animals...

[mitsuki lover]

I would have to agree with Tyrel that some people simply take certain passages of the Bible way too literally.
It does take a bit of imagination to take a walking and talking serpent seriously.
It's probably because of the fact that reptiles were so rife in the Mideast that the prophets and other Bible writers used them so often in metaphorical
ways.
Though that doesn't explain Barney!:lol:

[bakura_fan]

Well, I hope not. I intend to get a ball python some day...

[Doubleshadow]

Genesis 3 in the Amplified Bible and the concordances I checked indicates that Satan is talking to Eve, not an actual serpent, by use of some form of disguise, illusion or shape-shifting. The serpent was just a convenient cover.
You can see later in verse 15 that although Eve was fooled, God wasn't. He told the serpent (Satan) what was going to happen to him, that the trouble he would cause would be no to God's people would be no more trouble than a bite to the heel, while his punishment would be to have his head smashed in; that is, be annihilated.

[silver_wolf454]

XD XD I have a boy in my class who hate snake and swears they are the spawn of the devil. (Of course this same boy hates emo kids and Johnny Dep and is clearly insane in my eyes...>..>)

I personaly love snakes ^-^ I want one because they are adorable, but...I also think spiders are cute XD XD

[USSRGirl]

I personaly love snakes ^-^ I want one because they are adorable, but...I also think spiders are cute XD XD

Same here. XD I love snakes, and I came very close to getting a pet tarantula once. But then I found out they squish easily, so I thought it best not to because I'm the kinda person that's tempted to cuddle them to death (literally!).

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Reptiles are awesome, God made them. Therefore they aren't by themselves evil. But because of sin they have evil qualities attached to them. I'm a mature Christian and I love reptiles. Christians who think they're of Satan are narrow-minded and need to get out more.
I reckon many Christians are the most paranoid, joyless people on earth.
Live is to be lived, not endured!

[Dante]

Same here. XD I love snakes, and I came very close to getting a pet tarantula once. But then I found out they squish easily, so I thought it best not to because I'm the kinda person that's tempted to cuddle them to death (literally!).

I had a pet tarantula... actually two, one I got from the wild when I was a little kid (it crawled into a cage when I asked it to much to my mothers displeasure) and the other from a pet store (a rose tarantula) which I ironically felt sad for because it came to dislike us and eventually ended up setting free in its more natural habitat. It RAN into that habitat, while the former kind of enjoyed being with us for its short life before it died of old age shortly after (it ate plenty crickets and food but just died like someone that was old).

Snakes weren't as cool as they tend to pee all over you when you hold them... and it smells. But I loved snakes too. Tarantulas are far cooler though, I was never bit and they caused my family to have a new respect for insects. My mother was going to have my sister be the first in our family to try and get the tarantula to crawl into her hand... she placed her hand over and moved very slowly (she was horribly afraid) closer talking nicely to the spider and then reached out and lightly touched the fur then pulled her hand back from the iby gibys.

But then she tried it again just holding her hand out... this time though, it was the tarantula that made the first move, moving out one of her legs to lightly touch my sister... but upon feeling the skin, the spider pulled its own leg back acting seemingly as repulsed by us as we were of it... well my sister at least. I loved the spider and enjoyed taking it out when it enjoyed coming out.

Sadly though, the spider didn't always want to come out and would jump in the air and pounce on your hand threatening a nasty sting every once in a while... that really scared us off. And as time went on, she did it more and more, just spending her time staring out sadly into space the rest of the time.

Because of this, I eventually felt so bad that I had to let her go. But spiders and snakes are all cool with me, and my experience with them is that they're no angels, but they're no demons either. In many ways, all animals and insects are closest to humans, far closer then we'll ever desire to want to admit in most cases.

-Pascal

[bakura_fan]

I read somewhere that tarantula hair is an ingrediant in itching powder and so you're not really supposed to touch em all that much because of that? I wanted to get one in the future, but after reading that I wasn't so sure anymore. =_=;

[Mave]

I'm with the group that generally sees Satan doing the snake/serpent a disfavor by using them as an illusion/misrepresentation.

I suppose, it's partially influenced by how your society views the creature. If your society views the creature as an idol (e.g. some Asian cultures revere snakes/dragons), don't be surprised if you have fellow Christians who are totally irked by snakes.

I have fellow brothers or sisters who cannot stand having images of snakes/serpents/dragons in their household. It just bothers them spiritually. It may have something to do with what their ancestors did - worshiping these creatures in the past? I dunno. I typically respect and acknowledge their eh....condition as long as they don't impose it unto me. Everyone has their own "something bothers me" and that's fine.

[beau99]

[quote="bakura_fan (post: 1192919)"]I read somewhere that tarantula hair is an ingrediant in itching powder and so you're not really supposed to touch em all that much because of that? I wanted to get one in the future, but after reading that I wasn't so sure anymore. =_=]

It's not true.

Some people are allergic to them (causing them to itch all over), but otherwise, they're harmless.

[Technomancer]

I reckon many Christians are the most paranoid, joyless people on earth.
Live is to be lived, not endured!

I'll go with this one personally,

For he created all things that they might be: and he made the nations of the earth for health: and there is no poison of destruction in them, nor kingdom of hell upon the earth.

Wisdom 1:14

[Tyrel]

[quote="Danderson (post: 1192735)"]Funny...I've always believed the six days of Creation are PURE fact....but never did I find reptiles evil just becuase that was what satan did to the First Born. Nor have I run into any Christians who think reptiles are evil (now I have run into Christians who think they're creepy....and not one of them is a guy...]

well, I suppose we might simply differ on the six day thing, and I invite you to PM me and we can chat about that if you wish. However, as far as the Snake thing; I feel I should point out that it was in this passage that serpents were first given any sort of connotation like this. Previous to the Genesis story, the surrounding religions and cultures seem to have had associated the snake with the feminine just as we associate felines with the feminine. The Goddess worship temples have snake emblems everywhere, and some of the Statues from the era depict stakes with Women, or even one where a woman's arms were snakes. This was a welcoming image, not a scary one. I think this is why the writers of the Genesis account had Eve speak to the Serpent specifically, and even though Adam was standing right there, he never once mentions or acknowledges the snake; Not once.

Just throwing it out there; I suggest it was Genesis and the understanding of it that gave an evil connotation to the snake, rather than the connotation existing previously.



[quote="USSRGirl (post: 1192718)"]No, no, Termyt! That's a prophetic foreshadow that lead to the Barney-is-the-antichrist conspiracy site! XP

Don't have much to add to this topic that hasn't already been said, but as Tyrel stated, every single passage of the Bible is not meant to be taken dead literally (and even if you are a literalist, I don't really see where the problem would arise as you would only be reading it as Satan taking on the guise of a snake - not snakes themselves being evil, or all reptiles of that matter). Genesis is largely written in a Hebraic poetry format (do not confuse this with me saying it's fabricated or untrue), the serpent representing cunning/evil/ect. Coincidentally, I was doing some research on Genesis and found a site on ancient Hebrew with the original text, which translated back came more closely to implying 'a being of light'/an angel/fallen angel than a serpent (I'm no Hebrew expert, but if I find the site again I'll post it up) implying that the serpent might be more strongly metaphoric.

As for the leviathan symbolism and the beast of the sea/earth/red dragon stuff, if you took every prophetic passage that literally you'd have to be expecting Jesus to come back with a literal sword coming out of His mouth and a whole bunch of other oddities. I think the OT backs up the case of symbolic prophecy pretty strongly - just look at some of the prophets, like say Daniel interpretting Nebuchanazzer's (sp?!?!) dream about the statue to refer to kingdoms to come, and not "Uh... well, Neb, you're gonna be attacked by a giant man-eating... er... statue... thing... yeah."

Animals are not 'evil' in any way. They're God's creation, and I believe He uses them to teach us lessons about Himself, such as humility, dependence, ect. The whole black cat thing has nothing to do with Christianity, and comes from pagan roots. >.>]

ok, maybe I'll come back to this post, as I think I might have more to say, But one thing struck me. First, I've been giving Genesis some study for a while, and I haven't found any signs of poetry within it. Please, could you point out what exactly you mean? other than it quoting and citing other creation myths left right and center throughout the first few chapters, I can't see any signs at all that it is poetic, or written in the Hebraic form such as Job, the Song of Songs, and Proverbs, all are.

Please enlighten me.


Oh, for everyone else, here's a little bit, just a little bit, about Reptiles being Evil; http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Fq-Lua9o0&feature=related

The rest is a really dull unintellectual argument.

[Technomancer]

Oh, for everyone else, here's a little bit, just a little bit, about Reptiles being Evil; http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Fq-Lua9o0&feature=related

The rest is a really dull unintellectual argument.

Oh man, that really is dumb. Belongs right up there with the "bananas" argument.

[Mithrandir]

First, I've been giving Genesis some study for a while, and I haven't found any signs of poetry within it. Please, could you point out what exactly you mean? other than it quoting and citing other creation myths left right and center throughout the first few chapters, I can't see any signs at all that it is poetic, or written in the Hebraic form such as Job, the Song of Songs, and Proverbs, all are.

In the original Hebrew, the first two chapters appear to be in a poetic, flowing format. Many scholars believe those chapters to predate much of the following content by many, many generations. It should also be noted that there are also scholars who do not believe those chapters to be poetic.

On a different note, it's probably a good idea to let this topic drift off into the wasteland, and/or to take controversial topics to PM.

[Nate]

Is that guy wearing a toilet seat around his neck?

[Tyrel]

Oh man, that really is dumb. Belongs right up there with the "bananas" argument.

LOL, oh, I totally agree

[USSRGirl]

Yeah, Mith pretty much covered my thoughts on the poetry thing (again, not to lead to the common misinterpretation about it being fabled simply because the first two chapters flow in a way that's comparable to a Pslam or Song of Solomon in my opinion). The reason I pointed that out was because I wanted to make a point of the imagery such as the snake being symbolic rather literal "snakes are ebil." I also don't see a problem in going with the idea that Satan fooled Eve by posing as a creature of the garden, yet of course God saw him for what he really was.

Anywho, PM me if ya wanna talk further, Ty.

[Tyrel]

Yeah, Mith pretty much covered my thoughts on the poetry thing (again, not to lead to the common misinterpretation about it being fabled simply because the first two chapters flow in a way that's comparable to a Pslam or Song of Solomon in my opinion). The reason I pointed that out was because I wanted to make a point of the imagery such as the snake being symbolic rather literal "snakes are ebil." I also don't see a problem in going with the idea that Satan fooled Eve by posing as a creature of the garden, yet of course God saw him for what he really was.

Anywho, PM me if ya wanna talk further, Ty.

Er, well, according to the research I've done in the past hour or so, the only poetic prose found within Genesis at all, in the first few chapters appear in 2:23 and 3:14-19. This is normal, for within the Torah, almost every instance where somebody is speaking, and the Torah is quoting or recounting, it is poetically written.

There is really no Poetic prose with the first few chapters which flows throughout, so far as I can find so far, within Genesis.. Funny because I reject that it's poetic, and accept that none of it is literal. I'm on the other side of the fence on both counts

But I'll finish the research this thread inspired me to do. I still have to check a few sources for more information. I'll be doing that now-ish. Feel free to PM me, but I just had to put that bit about Genesis only having poetic prose in sections of a few verses at a time in there, because I think it's important we recognize it, and not lead others to mistakenly say "well, I think I learnt somewhere that the first few chapters are poetic".