Baptism! What do you think?

[kat-su-chan]

So...I haven't been baptised yet. Though I am definately doing my best to follow God's will in my life. I'm not sure really...what I should do about it. Should I get baptised before I go to bible college?
I switched churches, and my new church just began a multi-site focus. Right now we have a few different campuses and because we left the presbretry (because it was slowing us down on our vision of reaching other communities, which we felt was urgent) we no longer have our church and have been holding our services in theatres. So I am not entirely sure how that would work out...
But...What does everyone think about Baptism? What does it really say, or really do. I mean technically it's only a declaration of faith to the public; isn't it?
I'd love to hear what everyone thinks. ^^

[CephasWhite]

Baptism is the rebirth of your soul, in my opinion. If you believe that God has been born for you, lived for you, died for you to save you and you believe that He is your Father with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, your body will be dipped in water.

The Baptism is when you die and are born again: the dipping into the water.

I was Baptized when I was 13. I basically stated that I had lived with my family that long and I felt that I needed to be closer to God. I had to better understand what the meaning was that He came on this earth, the reason that He died, the reason that He loves me so much, and what He does to help me get through life.

Read this article, it will help you better understand what I'm saying:

http://www.biblebelievers.com/DeMichele1.html

[ClosetOtaku]

Baptism is one of the two sacraments (the other being the Eucharist) that were clearly established by Christ in the Gospels.

I would suggest that, rather than a public declaration for others, it is an indication of your submission and obedience to the commandment of Jesus Christ. It was practiced widely by his closest disciples and has the full support of the early church. That this joyful act has been turned into a circus side show by some denominations is to their shame. That defect should not enter into your calculus.

In short, if you think Jesus meant baptism to be optional according to the conscience of each believer, I suggest a thorough review of the scripture. You will not find a shred of evidence to support this notion.

[Nate]

In short, if you think Jesus meant baptism to be optional according to the conscience of each believer, I suggest a thorough review of the scripture. You will not find a shred of evidence to support this notion.

I disagree completely, though I won't go into detail to avoid theological debate. However, you're wrong, I can find one shred of evidence to support the truth that baptism is not required for salvation.

39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." - from Luke 23

Unless you are suggesting Jesus pulled himself and the other criminal off of the cross, went and baptized him, and then re-hung themselves...it's pretty clear baptism is not a necessity.

[Htom Sirveaux]

Eh... this thread could get hairy. Ask a large group of Christians from a million different denominations and you'll get a million different answers. Bottom line: the primary issue is that Jesus Christ is indeed your Savior to begin with. This much you obviously know. As far as baptism, do some research into the different schools of thought and decide for yourself which one makes the most sense to you.

[LadyRushia]

Well, I see baptism as a marking point that signifies a great change in your relationship with God and as a dedication to grow closer to Him. People can get baptized more than once, too. I think declaring your faith to a group of believers is part of baptism, but that isn't the only meaning. I suggest doing a lot of research and even taking some classes before getting baptized.

Yes, different people have different views about baptism. Some people think that getting baptized as a baby doesn't count while others, like my mother, say that it does because it's dedicating the child to seek God (and for me, this has turned out to be true). Whatever the case, I don't think baptism is a one-time deal.

One thing that I do know for sure is, like Nate said, that baptism does not equal salvation. Again, like the others said, study carefully what the Scripture says about baptism.

[Nate]

Eh... this thread could get hairy. Ask a large group of Christians from a million different denominations and you'll get a million different answers. Bottom line: the primary issue is that Jesus Christ is indeed your Savior to begin with. This much you obviously know. As far as baptism, do some research into the different schools of thought and decide for yourself which one makes the most sense to you.

Quoted for truth.

Also, despite my other post, I want to say this. Don't say "It's not required for salvation so I won't do it." A Christian, a real Christian, who wants to do what God commands and wants to love Christ as best as he or she can, should get baptized, and should want to get baptized as soon as possible.

Simply because it is optional in no way excuses us from doing it. Every Christian should get baptized.

[jon_jinn]

if you believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose 3 days later, if you've confess your sins to God and acknowledged yourself as a sinner, and are confident that you are a Christian and are willing to follow God all of your life, then i encourage you to be baptized.

[Blitzkrieg1701]

I didn't get baptized until several years after I was born again, mainly because I was too shy as a kid to do it. We were in a BIIIIIG church at that time, you see, and my social anxiety made deal with all that very unpleasant to think about. Thankfully, I eventually got over it enough to be obedient.

As for the debate threatening to erupt, let me meekly make my attempt to wrap things up quickly: Regardless of how you think baptism relates to salvation or which denomination understands it best or what understanding your searching the scripture will bring you or even your original question relating going to bible college, should you be baptized? Yes. Absolutely

[CAAOutkast]

Baptism is only an option. You don't really need it to go to heaven.

[ClosetOtaku]

I disagree completely, though I won't go into detail to avoid theological debate. However, you're wrong, I can find one shred of evidence to support the truth that baptism is not required for salvation.

Nowhere did I say it was required for salvation. Nor do I believe it is required for salvation. But when confronted with the question of whether it is an option -- which is the "question behind the question" from the original post -- there is absolutely nothing in scripture to support a Christian congregation saying, "We do not practice baptism" or "We believe baptism to be an option according to the conscience of the believer".

I am attempting to answer the question asked, not engage in a sidebar theological debate.

[Kaligraphic]

The word baptism, in the Bible, refers to their method of bathing back in the day. As you are a human, and likely subject to the same scents and dirt that we all are, I would say yes, you should definitely bathe before going off to college, Bible or otherwise. You don't want to be the smelly one, do you?

[Fish and Chips]

Baptism is an exterior sign of an interior change, an open commitment to Christ. Not a requirement for salvation, but a declaration of that salvation.

[AsianBlossom]

I think you should get baptized. It's very important, especially if you've decided to become a Christian.

Now, she wanted to hear opinions. Here's my opinion:
Recently, the belief of a "limbo," or "not heaven but a certain amount of happiness" for unbaptized babies who died before baptism or were aborted was...how should I say it? The Pope said we didn't have to believe in that anymore, as those babies who never received baptism through no fault of their own should have every right to enter heaven, as they were completely pure and sinless, aside from original sin, which is not their fault anyways. So I think unbaptized people can get into heaven, it's just a lot harder. That's why if you've decided to become a Christian, it's best to get baptized, because it erases original sin and leaves an indelible mark on your soul saying you're a child of God and an heir to the kingdom of heaven (I like to think that it sort of makes us princes and princesses, since God is the King ^_^ ).

Like I said, this is just my opinion, and someone wanted to hear it. Don't start attacking it, because I'm not attacking your opinions. *covers this post in anti-attack netting*

[Desu]

I think it's optional for Christians. It's an outward sign of an inward change, that's all it is. The water doesn't give you anything you didn't receive when you asked Jesus to become your Savior. If God's fair then I can't see Him turning someone away from the pearly gates because someone didn't get baptized.

[Fish and Chips]

So I think unbaptized people can get into heaven, it's just a lot harder.

Except that salvation is not earned, nor could it be, nor should it be.

[AsianBlossom]

Hey, I said no attacking...

Well, now that you mention it, the reason people go to hell (as far as I know) is because they purposefully turn away from God and don't want to follow Him... *puts up more anti-attack netting*

[kat-su-chan]

I appreciate all the comments I've gotten on here!
I do agree with desu and fish and chips.
Being Baptist, I am against child baptism because I don't believe it holds any significance. I don't believe baptism determines whether you get into heaven or not, or your chances of getting into heaven. For me, baptism is a public declaration of your faith and your choice to follow God's path for your life.
I know that Jesus baptized, and biblically baptism was pretty significant. It still is, and I don't deny the significance of it. However, hypothetically speaking I could go through my whole Christian life not being baptised and I am pretty sure it wouldnt affect things much. Not to say that's what I am going to do...
I am going to get baptised. But. It's just a matter of when and I am not entirely sure...when it's going to happen.

[Desu]

Hey, I said no attacking...

Well, now that you mention it, the reason people go to hell (as far as I know) is because they purposefully turn away from God and don't want to follow Him... *puts up more anti-attack netting*

This is annoying. We should be able to challenge one another's opinions or at least offer up our own. It really irks me that people are so defensive about not hurting anyone's feelings. I think that if you can't take criticism for your beliefs then you really need to think about why you believe them. Plus, if this is a forum in which the users aren't allowed to debate in then I don't think it's a forum. It's a Q&A. Yes, I know, this probably appears angry but its not. I'm at my computer calmly typing this. I think there are some questions within it some mods need to answer though.

[mitsuki lover]

Baptism is one of those issues that we could wind up getting hanged over about because of differences in denominational beliefs.Myself,being raised Presbyterian I do believe in infant baptism as children of Believers are part of the Covenant and Kingdom.
I also believe that the FORM of baptism should be optional;it does not matter wheter it is sprinkling,immersion or any other method,what matters is that it is a sign of internal Grace.
I would also agree with Christisright that it is optional.There are plenty of times when a new convert cannot be baptized for one reason or another,but this does not mean they are less a Christian than one who has been baptized.

[ClosetOtaku]

I can imagine a number of reasons why one cannot get baptized "right now". Hanging on a cross, in the middle of a desert, going down in a burning aircraft...

Note the enthusiasm of the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8). A new convert -- barely minutes old -- "Look, here is some water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?" What did Philip say? "No, better that you get a more thorough understanding of the Scripture. Wouldn't want you to go off half-cocked on some tired old ritual."? No, he baptized him.

Note the directness of Peter. When Cornelius and his relatives and friends were filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues, what was Peter's response? "Gee, these uncircumcised folks are really in the Spirit! They're more spiritually mature than others, we can dispense with that baptism stuff!" No, he said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water?"

Note the example of Christ (whose example, by the way, we are supposed to follow). John offers him a way out: "I need to be baptized by you!" Jesus responds: "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." No student is above the master; how can any disciple say, "Baptism was OK for Jesus, but not for me"?

Since I doubt many reading this are hanging on a cross, in the middle of a desert, or going down in a burning plane, the option for them exists. Executing this option is a question of submission and obedience. "Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them..." Whoops! Lemme see... exegesis is so important here... preaching to them? Nope. Theophilosophizing with them? Nope. Baptizing. That's the word...

With few exceptions, I can see no legitimate excuse not to be baptized. Beware of people who think they Know Better than Jesus. If you the type of Christian who just wants to "check the block" then, yes, I suppose you don't have to bother with it -- it won't change your salvation status in the Book of Life, as far as I know. I'm just disappointed that so many posters here casually dispense with something that was so vital to the Early Church, Apostles, Disciples, and Jesus Himself.

[kat-su-chan]

Baptism is one of those issues that we could wind up getting hanged over about because of differences in denominational beliefs.Myself,being raised Presbyterian I do believe in infant baptism as children of Believers are part of the Covenant and Kingdom.
I also believe that the FORM of baptism should be optional;it does not matter wheter it is sprinkling,immersion or any other method,what matters is that it is a sign of internal Grace.
I would also agree with Christisright that it is optional.There are plenty of times when a new convert cannot be baptized for one reason or another,but this does not mean they are less a Christian than one who has been baptized.

I just want to know, what do you believe that baptising an infant does?
Because I am not sure what people think it does...From what I understand usually people don't believe in child baptism for salvation right? I don't think child baptism is wrong - if it's baptism for dedication. But...I don't believe you can baptize your child for salvation. And...I mean it's a declaration of the parents beliefs, not the childs. Isn't it? :S
And you're very right closetotaku...

[AsianBlossom]

I'm glad my parents got me baptized as a baby...they brought me to God right from the beginning...you suppose that could also be part of why people should baptize their children?

[kat-su-chan]

Hmm. but since you're a child you're faultless anyways, until you sin. I don't know about that...You're with God anyways... There is really no benefit to baptizing your child. All you are doing is saying I intend to raise my kids with God. But its' not as though people who don't baptise their kids aren't raising them God's way or with God...
desu ne?

[LadyRushia]

My mother baptized me when I was a baby her reason for doing so was to dedicate me to God so I would seek Him and find Him. Like I said before, this turned out to be true for me, but I'm not going to speak for every baptized baby out there. I think some parents want to baptize their children for that reason.

Now, I also think it's good to get baptized more than once. I, personally, have been wanting to since I got back from China, but I haven't yet gotten the chance, unfortunately.

I don't think anybody here is saying that baptism brings salvation, but it shouldn't be treated as optional. I feel guilty for waiting so long; it's really best to do it as soon as possible.

[Tyrel]

This is a topic which unfortunately people are more confused about then I think we should be within the Church. I used to have huge arguments with my Church trying to show them how Baptism was absolutely necessary for salvation. It was one of the issues which kept me from being baptized by them, and I had never been baptized. However, I was brought to see eventually that such a position is ultimately philosophically indefensible. My exegesis got a little better as I grew older.

My conclusion is that Baptism is and isn't necessary. It isn't necessary for Salvation any more or less than anything else you might imagine is or isn't necessary for salvation. Perhaps, to keep it simple, and not get too deep into trouble, I'll use a simple analogy; Prayer. Do we need prayer to live as a Christian, equipping ourselves with, and aligning ourselves to, the Gospel? On the one hand, you can't say prayers are necessary without putting yourself under the law at least in some way. If I say "praying the Lord's Prayer" or "A personal prayer of acceptance" or some such prayer, is necessary to receive salvation, then what becomes of the thief on the cross? What becomes of one who, while praying this prayer, gets shot in the head? You cannot defend such a position without becoming legalistic, and making far too many assumptions about the Judgment, or implying strange things of the inner workings of the mind of God.

On the other hand, you can't discard prayer as an essential part of living as a devout Christian anymore than you can separate meditation from the life of any devoutly religious person.

So, perhaps it is best to say that, while we can't consider 'x' or 'y' necessary, they go hand in hand with the Christian walk. Let's observe an interesting passage which is sometimes cited to attempt to show that Baptism is essential for God to consider us saved on the day of judgment.

"He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." ~ Mark 16:15-16

Notice that those who do not believe are condemned. However, this passage make no separation at all for those who believe and those who are baptized. This is not to imply that you can't come to believe until baptism. The way this passage is structured shows that there is no separation of Baptism and Belief. They go hand in hand, so to speak. Kind of like how we understand a marriage. There are those who are married, and got married, and then there are those who aren't married {notice how I structured that}. What is a marriage? Is it a ring, or a cloth? Is it a particular ceremony, such as a Roman Catholic one, or a Hindu one? Does it require a number of people as witnesses, or particular people as witnesses, or does it require any witnesses at all?

In the end, a marriage is a covenant between two people. Everyone decides to get married before the ceremony takes place, just as everyone believes before they are baptized. However, it is that resolve which pushes people to do this particular "ceremony" or "ritual" which reflects this. Is it an outward declaration of entering into this covenant? Yes, sure, but that's not all it is. Does it transform your person from one state to another mystically? No, though you're life will be different from that point on, nothing about the ceremony transforms your being.


Does immersing yourself in water {Baptizo} actually cleanse you of iniquity, or of the stain of original sin {so that you will no longer tend towards sin as a creature any longer}, or does it have any mystical power in and of itself? I don't think it does. I think Baptism is as much a symbol of the Gospel, and is indeed a part of living the Gospel, as washing your hands and feet with water before prayer is essential for Muslim prayer. We all know water doesn't cleanse the spirit, but the body.

The symbol of baptism, at least in the early Church is that we are fully immersed in water {as the Greek word literally implies}, and then in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, we resurrect as a new person.

"don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."
~ Romans 6:3-4

"For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"
~ 1 Peter 3:18-21

Baptism goes hand in hand with a Christian walk, just as a wedding goes hand in hand with a life of marriage. If you were in a plane on your way to some exotic place to perform the marriage ceremony, and the plane crashed, leaving you stranded on an island for the rest of your life, can you not live as a married unit? If on your way to Church one glorious Sunday morning, nervously looking forward to your Baptism into Christ's death, and you crash and die a terrible death, are you not able to be saved by the same sanctifying Grace of Christ?

That's the conclusion I've come to after years of study and a whole lot of thought on the issue.

[Tyrel]

Hmm. but since you're a child you're faultless anyways, until you sin. I don't know about that...You're with God anyways... There is really no benefit to baptizing your child. All you are doing is saying I intend to raise my kids with God. But its' not as though people who don't baptise their kids aren't raising them God's way or with God...
desu ne?

I think most people who raise their children in the faith and Baptize them, have them do confirmation. This proceeding is a ritual which doesn't really find it's root in the Early Church, but evolved later due to some misunderstandings about Baptism. However, as far as the whole thing goes, the Symbolism is generally at least basically met with the water at the beginning of life, and the confirmation is the pledge of a clear conscience towards God. That pledge doesn't necessarily require full immersion into water, or pouring water over the body, or sprinkling the water as Moses Sprinkled Israel with the Blood. In fact, I don't think any one of those things are necessary.

If we ask ourselves why they would be, and we say something like "well, it's because we need to have an inner recognition of the things which these exterior things symbolize", then we can see that, for such examples as those who are blind and deaf, these things won't easily be recognized as meaningful at all.

Baptism is the Church's ritual manner of expressing the acceptance of the Gospel. If Baptism is done in the name of "Jesus" or in the name of "The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit", it is still a baptism into the same Gospel. If the confession of a clear conscience is accompanied by the ritual of Baptism being done by Full immersion, or by pouring water, or by sprinkling, then it's still a Christian declaration.

When I was baptized, I had to give my testimony in front of the Church congregation and then go through the laying on of hands and prayers, and then I was fully immersed in water, and Baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It was done on Halloween day when I was probably 18.

For me, if the ceremony is structured to have a half hour break, or perhaps a few years in between one part of it, and another, it doesn't matter. So long as the Baptism process, whether it takes 30 seconds, 3 hours, or 13 years, means the same thing, it is valid. If it is still understood as a statement of faith, first symbolic, and then the pledge of the conscience towards God, then the person has entered into the covenant, and has expressed it outwardly and recognized it inwardly {which is the point}.


That is my understanding.

[Dante]

Why the big debate? Baptism is something very special to me, and I am happy that I was baptised. Don't worry too much about the water dunking thing, the most that'll happen is a little water up nose, but most of the time they have you pinch your nostrils so that doesn't happen. But overall it can be a very special experience.

I was baptised when I was part of the Vineyard Youth Group at Vineyard of North Phoenix, a really special place for me as a person because it was there that I felt the Holy Spirit. This was really important for me, because the Holy Ghost confirmed in me that I not only was God real, but more importantly he loved and cared about me. It was a feeling that surpassed a feeling and more like a physical sense that felt his love for me. This was the place I felt the closest to God in my entire life. I knew all the youth pastors (we had several and they would alternate to give each other breaks) and the messages given often would lead and direct me personally, it felt as though God were using them to speak to me direct. It was a really great place to be and I cared a lot about everyone there.

*sigh, I miss that place, too bad we grow up right?*

Anyways, when I was baptised we actually had to attend a small one day course explaining what it was and why we needed it. It also explained what we needed to have done before we were baptised and gave the history of it. This helped dissapate a lot of my fears and you may ask if your church does something similiar.

Finally, the baptism itself was wonderful and fun, there were LOADS of people there, but because I was part of the youth group they individualized our baptisms. I had the honor of being baptised by my lead youth pastor, a truly incredible man that I loved to hear give sermons... they were, absolutely incredible and straight from the heart, they weren't made up or written down, they were... real. Furthermore, I had family and friends there to see me get baptised with a live band and... well it was just truly incredible.

After being baptised, I Immediatly went out and got a cross necklass, you see them alot (its harder to find them for guys then girls, not saying this is necessary just saying its part of the story ;P). Its the same one I have to this day, and that's how I wanted it to be, because in it is stored the memory of that day, and every chink or tarnish or change in chain it gets simply symbolizes that despite it all that in the end I will still have God and no power can take that away in this whole stupid world. It gives me strength on days or times I am in pain and in private I would hold it close and remember that day, or the reasons that led up to that day. It has seen me do what few others have, cry. So, if something like baptism can serve as a foundation for such a tiny item capable of holding such an incredible source of memories and strength, Baptism definitely has my OK! No, even more I truly hope you too can have such an incredible spiritual experience leading from it, and I am blessed to have had it all that grew from it. But it should be something treasured and not worried about!

Oh... and I'm a guy, so IF ANYONE EVER SPEAKS OF ME CRYING AGAIN, I'LL TEAR OUT YER SPLEEN AND POUND YOU GOOD! Hmphf there... (grumbles something about the fact that this is bound to go down as something one shouldn't post on the internet...O_o)

[Mave]

Is there a reason why you think God's Will doesn't include baptism?

So...I haven't been baptised yet. Though I am definately doing my best to follow God's will in my life. I'm not sure really...what I should do about it. Should I get baptised before I go to bible college?

You may say it's silly but I've always view baptism as a wedding with Christ. It's less meaningful unless it's declared openly with a group of ppl and it signifies a major change in your life where you acknowledge a partner in life whom you're committing yourself to.

I'll just say you should get baptized when you're ready for it. To me, it sounds like you are. I mean, if all this thinking about getting baptized is holding you back from moving forward with God.......

Oh yeah one last thing, I got baptized twice. The first, I did it because everyone else was doing it. Second round, I was serious about it and wanted God to be part of my life. Both were different types of baptism (water immersiaon vs sprinkling) but I think all that matters is my heart then.

[Okami]

I am actually ashamed of my baptism, as when I did it, four other people (two being friends and another my stepbrother) also got baptized. I wasn't fully serious about the commitment I was making, and I did it purely because I didn't want my stepbrother 'taking the glory'. And looking upon it, that's why I struggle sometimes with doubt over whether or not I have the Spirit living within me.
And it wasn't a week later I was back into lustful sin, because I had never even thought to confess of it. It was just one dirty secret in this new life after another.

But I always look back and remember that yes, I have been baptized. Fully immersed in the cleansing waters. And when I'm struggling one way or another, sometimes I'll close my eyes and remember what it felt like to be "dunked" by Richard (My former youth pastor...boy, he was a big man) and the situation will eventually turn out better

Not really sure what I'm tying to add here, but I certainly agree with others...study the Scriptures. That's my biggest regret before being baptized; I'd hardly even touched the New Testament, so my picture of Jesus revolved around what I was being told by others. I didn't search and dig into it for myself, as I ought to have done.