Quick verse request!

[Momo-P]

Not really getting into a conversation of sorts, just requesting a specific verse.

I know the Bible says not to practice witchcraft, but to my knowledge that's all the verses say about it. Are there any verses that say you shouldn't have anything to do with it? I was going to check google myself, but...eh. I decided better not to. Sometimes you'll search for verses and only find stuff that makes you worry and think. Especially with one like this...

I love Harry Potter, but I rather not get a lecture about not watching it. I'm not actually practicing witchcraft, I'm not mingling with people who are interested in it, and Harry Potter...that's not even real witchcraft, real witches are evil and can't fly on brooms.

Just asking about the verse, that's all. Like I said, rather not search because we all know the type of junk that might crop up. ._.

[ChristianKitsune]

Here are some verses that might help you:
Phillipians 4:8

8Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

Leviticus 19:31

31 " 'Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 18:9-14 Detestable Practices
9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. 13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God.
The Prophet
14 The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the LORD your God has not permitted you to do so.

Remember READ THESE VERSES IN CONTEXT!

BibleGateway.com is a great resource!

[Momo-P]

Thanks for the verses Kitsune, for the most part it was what I thought! ^^; Course the "Let no one be found among you who do these things" part makes me wonder, since watching a movie about it would be found among you, but...eh.

._. blah.

[ChristianKitsune]

Thanks for the verses Kitsune, for the most part it was what I thought! ^^; Course the "Let no one be found among you who do these things" part makes me wonder, since watching a movie about it would be found among you, but...eh.

._. blah.

Well, it's also important to remember that when Leviticus was written is was before Christ died for us...I mean Jesus didn't come to replace the law, but he did come to make it better.

You seem to be terrified for messing up Momo....this is just from observation... but do you really think God will hate you from reading/watching Harry Potter? O_o

God just isn't that kind of God. I am not sure if HP is really all that bad or not, I haven't read the books...

I am not saying that witch craft is okay, or anyting and I know you just want to do what is right...but goodness, don't worry so much! ^_^; ENJOY your life as a Christian...There are better books out there to read, but yeah...whatever...

When in doubt. Pray honestly!

[Shao Feng-Li]

From what I can tell, the only thing making it witchcraft in Harry Potter is that they call it witchcraft. In name only sort of thing.

[Momo-P]

Well ya, I'm a worrier. It drives my parents nuts to be honest. XD

And HP may have witchcraft, but it's like the Wizard of Oz. You have good witches and bad witches, Harry is a "good" wizard. Heck, the first freaking book goes on about how the love of his mother protected him from dying. I mean...I just don't see how that's evil. Also Shao made one of my points...it's not even REAL witchcraft.

Real witches call upon satan for power. They also can't turn rats into drinking cups or take items that will allow them to breathe underwater. They just can't. ._.;

[Shao Feng-Li]

They can't even help that they have the power. In the first book/movie, when Harry's at the zoo, it just happens.

[ChristianKitsune]

Well ya, I'm a worrier. It drives my parents nuts to be honest. XD

And HP may have witchcraft, but it's like the Wizard of Oz. You have good witches and bad witches, Harry is a "good" wizard. Heck, the first freaking book goes on about how the love of his mother protected him from dying. I mean...I just don't see how that's evil. Also Shao made one of my points...it's not even REAL witchcraft.

Real witches call upon satan for power. They also can't turn rats into drinking cups or take items that will allow them to breathe underwater. They just can't. ._.;

Check out Matthew 25-34:

25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[b]?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Worry isn't something that God has given us...

and trust me, I am a pretty awesome worrier myself. But it was more for dying and sickness and stuff. ^^; I dont worry as much anymore..

[Momo-P]

Well ok, but thanks for the verses and words! Cuz otherwise it just ain't Harry Potter, I do love my FF/KH and such. I also love YGO even though it has the silly nonsense about Egyptian gods and summoning the monsters, but it's like "A-it's not real", "B-I don't agree with it" and "C-Good messages do exist within it". ^^; I mean, if people around me feel differently I will not shove it in their face or tell them they're crazy, but as long as I don't support those beliefs myself and do like the stories and games for the other reasons, I don't see why it'd be evil.

[CephasWhite]

Don't forget that God is not the author of confusion. What I'm saying here is that even though something like Harry Potter has some good messages to it, it's still portraying the fact that casting spells, and saying words that you don't even know what they mean are okay to do.

[Momo-P]

Don't forget that God is not the author of confusion. What I'm saying here is that even though something like Harry Potter has some good messages to it, it's still portraying the fact that casting spells, and saying words that you don't even know what they mean are okay to do.

True, but I guess that's where a person's brain comes into use. If you know the difference between real magic and fake magic, are you confused? Sure if you didn't know any better you may say "But this doesn't make sense! How can it be ok if magic is evil?!" but if you know the magic in these shows isn't even the same?

Real magic always comes from satan, therefore it's always evil. Magic in fiction doesn't always have to come from the devil though, sometimes it can come from really good and holy things. Knowing the difference means the whole situation is no longer confusing...or at least I'd think so. ^^;

[CephasWhite]

True, but remember that the magic that is being portrayed in the books and films has to be told where it's coming from, or else the audience is left questioning things like this.

The Lord of the Rings - Gandalf said that he was a servent of the Secret Fire. Tolkien stated the Secret Fire was God. Gandalf also didn't mumble spells from his staff. His magic was given by God, supposedly.

Chronicles of Narnia - The concept of the "Deep Magic". C.S. Lewis made sure that Aslan explained the Deep Magic was something older then Aslan himself, explaining about the sacrifice being made will crack the stone table (a reference to Christ on the cross). The Deep Magic was basically sacrificing yourself for others, which is what Aslan did for Edmund, and what Christ did for us.

Also, I think you have to think about what you're reading and if it applies to your standards of beliefs and if this book is what God says it's okay for me to read. If not then...there you go.

[Momo-P]

Well I suppose the audience is left guessing, but at the same time, is that entirely evil? If you're allowed to guess, you're allowed to choose, are you not? One could believe the wizards get their power from God, but once they turn to using evil methods, it's derived from the devil.

I mean, you have Raven in your profile, ne? Well last I was aware, she definitely isn't getting her power from God...^^; She uses magic for good, but you know that's ok because "I don't practice real magic and real magic is nothing like her powers".

[CephasWhite]

Really? I haven't looked at my profile for ages...I was meaning to change that...but the reason for white raven is because in the original Teen Titans, Raven basically becomes Holy Raven, where her father Trigon is cleared from her mind and spirit.

I don't watch Teen Titans anymore just so you know.

It's a hard question really, because in LOTR, we have Gandalf, the heartwarming, moral, guardian angel, and on the other side we have Saruman, the complete opposite, due to power hunger.

What is about these two is that they are clearly portrayed as who they are and what they stand for. These are my ideas of a good novel is to have all the characters clearly portrayed and the person reading it has a clear idea of who to root for; they aren't left wondering if what they're doing is okay and once they find out, they're either happy or depressed because what they thought about that character at first is really not who they are.

[Momo-P]

Well see, I guess that's where, as you said, it comes down to personal beliefs.

It might not outright say Harry's power comes from God or Voldemort comes from the devil, but it's pretty easy to see who's in the right and who's in the wrong. If anyone's power comes from God it'd definitely be Harry's and Voldemort...well...I think it's painfully obvious he's getting his powers from the devil. I mean, the story makes such a strong point to relate the snake to those who practice the dark arts.

Could things change later? Could Harry's powers come from the devil?...Possibly, but it's very unlikely. Not only are the books finished, but I don't see Rowling doing that. She was a Christian the last I heard, so it wouldn't even make sense.

I suppose I could go on worrying if the characters I like are in the wrong, but why bother? I don't know, so there's no reason to assume the worst. Sure you may again say "but what if? Won't that hurt?" True it may, but then again...what if it's never revealed? Why waste the enjoyment God has put before me? ^^;

Though all this aside, I do want to say thank you for speaking your piece. While we may not agree, you did bring many questions to my mind and overall it did help me in ultimately making my decision. ^^

[CephasWhite]

Well, you're welcome Momo Thanks for the conversation. As for me...I gotta get to bed...Good night!

[AsianBlossom]

Sorry to jump in, but I remember hearing that in the last episode of "The End" series, Raven renounced her father and said she wanted nothing to do with him...but I haven't even seen that episode, I've just read quotes. There's a reason I avoid some of the episodes. Don't get me wrong, as she's an interesting character and all, but I'm kind of keeping a little bit of distance instead of running in and saying she's my "favorite character" despite the fact that she and I have a few things in common (not involving psychokinesis, of course!).

[K. Ayato]

Here's a couple for you, Momo: II Timothy 1:7 and Psalm 56:3, respectively.

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee.

[ChristianKitsune]

*reads rest of thread*

Hmmm it seems to me that a lot of times, we try to rationalize what's good for US...but is the Bible really like that?

Does the bible say, "steer clear of this unless you are this person who says she is strong enough to handle it?" OR does it just say "Stay away from this because I am the Lord your God and I say so?"

It's something that I even struggle with sometimes ^^;

[K. Ayato]

There's no denying the tendency to rationalize and interpret things subjectively. One way to combat that is to ask yourself "Does my adherence to this reflect the image of God or not?". With the subject of fantasy novels involving magic, my personal view is to be able to understand that it's just a book. If, however, you decide to delve in witchcraft after reading Harry Potter, that's another subject entirely.

I understand your concerns, Momo, but for some of these concerns, I think you're reading way too much into it. If God, as Kitchan alluded to, poured out His wrath on everyone who enjoyed reading/watching Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of the Rings, or Harry Potter, well, a huge percentage of us would be in hot water right now. The way I see it (and you can disagree with me), reading or watching and accepting it as fantasy is pretty much a safe zone. It's when you start applying it and letting it control your life is when it's a problem.