Religious question

[Aleolus]

OK, this is something I've been wondering about for a while now. I have, for some time now, been interested in hypnosis, and various ways it can be utilized. I have been wondering whether or not hypnosis could be considered 'sorcery' or the like, forbidden from Christians in the Bible.

Now, before people start responding, let me clarify that, when I have attempted to hypnotize someone, I have always stated clearly and honestly up front what hypnosis is, what it can and cannot do, and what I intend to do with it this time, and make sure they are OK with my doing that. I use no form of coercion, nor do I attempt to sway their decision. If they are not comfortable with my hypnotizing them, or if they simply don't want to, I do not push the issue.
Now, to make sure you all are on the same page as I am, hypnosis cannot make anyone do anything that they would no choose to do under normal circumstances. All it can do is alter the apparent circumstances, and give gentle suggestions to the person as to ways to behave and so forth, like giving up smoking, eating healthier food, et cetera.

Please, keep this a serious discussion, if you don't have anything significant to add to the discussion, then please don't post anything. Thank you.

[Fish and Chips]

I find hypnosis to be more psychological than sorcery. It's a state of mental suggestibility, possibly, but not mind control. It's all mental at best, and "Worst," I'd say it's stage magic or public performance, which is nothing to be worried about.

[Raiden no Kishi]

Well, my shooting-from-the-hip response would be no, but that's of little value given my ignorance concerning hypnosis. How would you explain it? I must admit that you've got me curious.

.rai//

[Technomancer]

Well, my shooting-from-the-hip response would be no, but that's of little value given my ignorance concerning hypnosis. How would you explain it? I must admit that you've got me curious.

.rai//

The short answer is that the phenomenon of hypnosis is not fully understood. Given the complexity of the problem, it is not entirely surprising. However, both EEG and newer brain imaging studies indicate that there are brain activity-level correlates of hypnosis. This may suggest that hypnosis may fall in with other altered states of consciousness. However, this remains controversial.

In any event, whatever the nature of hypnosis it is a purely material phenomenon.

[Raiden no Kishi]

The short answer is that the phenomenon of hypnosis is not fully understood. Given the complexity of the problem, it is not entirely surprising. However, both EEG and newer brain imaging studies indicate that there are brain activity-level correlates of hypnosis. This may suggest that hypnosis may fall in with other altered states of consciousness. However, this remains controversial.

In any event, whatever the nature of hypnosis it is a purely material phenomenon.

Thanks, that was helpful. However, I may have been insufficiently clear. I was hoping to understand the methodology as well. Perhaps I should Wikipedia it first . . .

.rai//

[Aleolus]

To put it simply, when you hypnotize someone, you place them into a state of intense concentration, by systematically relaxing their body, and giving their mind a strong focal point. This puts them into a state where 'mind over matter' is the most accurate description. I have heard of people using hypnosis to not feel pain in certain circumstances, to stop a bad habit, such as smoking, or even, with long-term use, alter their physical bodies in certain ways, though I'm somewhat dubious about how well that works. It's possible to hypnotize yourself, if you know how, but it's not something I have ever been able to manage. Also, some people simply cannot be hypnotized, for whatever reason, their minds refuse to accept it, or whatever.

[bakura_fan]

I know that with my fear of moving things (mostly water...such as waves, but also shades and chains) my parents said to look into this Christian guy in Seattle who hypnotizes people and try's to bring them back to that initial phobia beginning and change it or get the person to realize that it's nothing to be afraid of. Never tried it. So about it being sorcery, no. It's just a form of therapy in my opinion. ^^,

[Raiden no Kishi]

Well, from the information I have, it only interests me more. I'll have to look into it.

.rai//

[Souba]

[color="RoyalBlue"]I think this topic is a little too difficult to answer in this forum, so you might consider asking at http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/ where you may find people who will give you a more definitive answer. ^^
If it's an opinion you want. Personally believe it is a completely secular practice and one unnecessary for a Christian to engage in.
Still my opinion doesn't take precedent over what God tells you. I encourage to first pray about it ask God to reveal through his spirit whether this acceptable to engage in also discuss it with your pastor.
Beloved in Grace,
Souba [/color]

[K. Ayato]

As a psychology graduate, I can say yes, that hypnosis is one form of therapy. However, its benefits are hazy. There are some that say it works, and some that argue that the therapist is really feeding false information (or false memories) into the patients.

But as far as whether or not you would consider it sorcery, I don't believe it is. As you said, it's a form of concentration combined with relaxation of the body. One isn't putting another under a spell per se.

[EricTheFred]

I would personally be curious, if one were to place it in the category of sorcery due to the 'mind control' implication (correct or not), then where does one draw the line? Is the use of drugs to temper or treat the effects of, say, schizophrenia 'mind control'? Or perhaps to get a little lighter in dosages and effects, the drugs used to treat bipolar disorder, depression, social disorder, anxiety, OCD, etc. etc.

My only contact with hypnosis is that my stepmother successfully quit smoking roughly fifteen years ago, after many, many other approaches failed. Personally, I didn't understand why such a strong-willed woman was unable to make other approaches work (I kicked the habit after about fifteen years as a smoker through the use of willpower and nicotine gum) but where everything else failed, hypnosis succeeded. This is probably a good example of hypnosis working because the will of the patient was in line with the hypnotist's aims.

[Aleolus]

Which is the only way I ever use it, when the 'subject' and myself agree on what they will and will not allow me to do.

*Caution, somewhat mature post*
The main reason I bring this up for discussion is that the focal point of my interest lies in the potential erotic form for hypnosis. Causing the body to feel things that are not actually happening, intensify pleasurable sensations, and so forth. I'm wanting to make sure I'm not 'dabbling with the devil', in doing this. I keep my relations purely on a Christian level (though I have struggled with lust for many years), but it's a temptation that is there. This is why, whenever I put anyone under, the first thing I tell them is that no matter what suggestions I give them, or what I make them feel, they are still themselves, and they still have their likes and dislikes, and if I try to do something they are not comfortable with, or which they do not enjoy, to tell me that that is the case.

[Fish and Chips]

If that's your issue, then hypnosis is what you make of it. Just don't mess around with that side of it, and you should be in the clear.

[Gabriel 9.0]

Well the CIA experimented with it during the Cold War. But the whole thing seems kinda of creepy and unsound if you ask me. God will show you about making the right decision.

[Mave]

Disclaimer: I don't know much about this and don't plan to dabble too much into it.

But in general, I guess I'm ok with hynopsis depending on how it's used. It's not sorcery to me but it's an area of psychology that can be abused. If it helps someone to kick a bad habit without any negative side-effect, all the power to it.

If it helps ppl to be convinced that they were someone reincarnated from a previous life in year 1830, I can't help wondering what benefit there is to that except for further messing up this person's mind.

Perhaps the more important question is the intention of the therapy. Are you using it on yourself for your own selfish purposes (satisfy a certain desire/forcibly suppress a certain memory) or to steer someone to serve your own purposes (make them do what you want them to do) or are you using it to sincerely help someone to obey God (in this sense, maybe overcome a detrimental habit - I dunno something like that)?

With that said, I'm not quite sure if I necessarily support what you're doing, Aleolus, because it makes me wonder if it's a good idea to explore methods of experiencing the pleasures of sex, without committing the act of sex. Pls correct me, I didn't get that intepretation right but that's how I understand your post.

[Kat Walker]

Well, religious questions aside, this brings up sticky ethical issues. Although it is an imprecise "science", I think it's obvious that hypnotism gives you a certain amount of control over a person (or you're relinquishing a certain amount of control of your own will), and the repercussions of it are not well understood. Even if there was nothing esoteric about it (and I believe there is - more on that coming up), it's still risky.

It is possible with hypnosis to implant false memories in a person, erase real ones, re-live supposed "past lives" you've been reincarnated from, have "out-of-body" experiences, or even be possessed by other entities. That right there should be a red flag to any Christian. Many ministries that are run by ex-occultists have countless testimonies of bizarre phenomena associated with hypnotism. I believe that this is nothing short of mind control, and there is a reason why hypnotism is widely used by New Age practitioners.

Hypnotism, along with meditation, drug use, and other mind-altering practices, play a significant part in the occult. You should never submit mind to invasion, EVER.

The main reason I bring this up for discussion is that the focal point of my interest lies in the potential erotic form for hypnosis. Causing the body to feel things that are not actually happening, intensify pleasurable sensations, and so forth. I'm wanting to make sure I'm not 'dabbling with the devil', in doing this. I keep my relations purely on a Christian level (though I have struggled with lust for many years), but it's a temptation that is there.

This is a very discomforting thing to hear. You struggle with sexual lust, and your solution is not to rely on God. Only He is able to relieve the burden of sin. If anything, trying to use hypnotism to achieve sexual release is just another form of masturbation, don't you think? If you're turning to this in order to avoid it, what's the point? It's very commendable that you are fighting your problem with lust, but you're going about it in a very dangerous way. This could easily become a slippery slope of temptation for you in and of itself.

And as mentioned above, there is a significant risk that you're opening up avenues for demonic influence. Using hypnotism to enhance or gain power from sexual experiences is a VERY occult practice. Psychic Vampires, Satanists, Chaos magicians, Wiccans, and other types of Witches employ it all the time (I'd offer links to specific examples, but I'm sure they'd be erased by the mods... if you need proof, just go do a Google search, you'll get TONS of results).

I know, because there was a time I was very interested in new age religion. I've done my research. I was never directly involved myself, thankfully - but I know it's real.

Basically, if you think it's unwise to play with a Ouija board, then why dabble in hypnotism? It's even more dangerous because it makes you practically helpless to resist. I deeply recommend that you stop. I'll pray that God gives you strength.

[mitsuki lover]

Keep in mind that people have varying degrees of suggestability.So hypnosis only works on some people in some ways and not on others.
One of the most notorious uses of hypnosis though has been in the area of hypnotherapy,especially in the use of recovering 'lost memories'.

[uc pseudonym]

Most of what I would say has already been said, though I will note that I share the concern of many over the sexual aspect of this.

This puts them into a state where 'mind over matter' is the most accurate description. I have heard of people using hypnosis to not feel pain in certain circumstances, to stop a bad habit, such as smoking, or even, with long-term use, alter their physical bodies in certain ways, though I'm somewhat dubious about how well that works.

Note, however, that all these things can be done when not under hypnosis. A common trick of making individuals as stiff as a board can be done by anyone, but most people think they can't and subconsciously buckle.

[termyt]

Theologically speaking, I personally do not find anything in the scriptures that say hypnosis is heresy.

A generation or so ago, the mainstream Christian opinion was that hypnosis is sin, but I don’t think that is true anymore and I can not in my own conviction support such a claim.

The other side of the hypnosis argument, however, has grave considerations. When hypnotized, you may enter a highly suggestive state. While you will not likely be enslaved by the practitioner, instances have been documented where the person under hypnosis has suffered from false memories which can lead to subtle changes in personality. Repeated sessions, in theory, could alter your personality and even the way you see the world completely. Whether or not false memories in the magnitude required to change one wholly could ever be planted is unlikely, but I have enough trouble remembering what did happen, I don’t need to “remember” things that never actually did.

I certainly would not subject myself to hypnosis for recreational purposes. It’s rather like playing with a Ouija Board, in my mind. If I am going to mess with things I don’t have control over or do not understand, then it’s going to be for a really good reason and even then I will give it careful thought.

[Aleolus]

Note, however, that all these things can be done when not under hypnosis. A common trick of making individuals as stiff as a board can be done by anyone, but most people think they can't and subconsciously buckle.

True, however not many people have the strength of will to prevent themselves from subconciously buckling and so forth, and placing them in a trance removes that aspect for whatever it is you or they want to accomplish.

This is a very discomforting thing to hear. You struggle with sexual lust, and your solution is not to rely on God. Only He is able to relieve the burden of sin. *snip*

Who said I'm trying to use it in circumstances he would not approve of? I only use it in an attempt to improve sensational and emotional responses to circumstances that are appropriate, and while, yes, I struggle with lust, I have been doing my absolute best to avoid giving into that struggle, by being quite vigilant regarding how and when I utilize it.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

'I only use it in an attempt to improve sensational and emotional responses to circumstances that are appropriate...'

Mate, it just sounds to me like you're trying to play God, leave that up to him to work with.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

'I only use it in an attempt to improve sensational and emotional responses to circumstances that are appropriate...'

Mate, it just sounds to me like you're trying to play God, leave that up to him to work with.

Not really, seeing that a lot of things can alter "sensational and emotional responses". Therapy, conditioning, trauma, etc. Heck even video games could do such a thing.

[Azier the Swordsman]

I do not believe hypnosis is sorcery of any kind, in particular due to my studies as an actor. I've learned some very interesting techniques, if I wanted to, I could put myself in a state of drunkeness, high on (more than one type) of drug, fear, grief, ect. I can also take a substitute for alcohol, such as tea/soda ect. and make myself psychologically dependent/addicted to it, so that when I drink it onstage/set I can realistically act like an alcoholic getting his fix. (Cause I am.)

(Substitutes are used, of course, since it would be detrimental for an actor to be in a scene drinking alcohol for 30 takes. XDD)

All of the above techniques work so well, that you are warned explicitly NOT to drive or operate heavy machinery for 12 or 15 minutes after making yourself "high" because you really will be in such a state during that period of time. (Without taking the actual drugs.)

The above techniques are performed in the manner of thinking certain thoughts with your mind and initiating psychological reactions in yourself that mimic the actual psychological reactions that drunks/druggies experience when getting high/shooting up.

While the techniques themselves aren't technically hypnosis (debatable), they definately aren't "sorcery" of any kind.

Point is, the human mind IS a bit vulnerable, and you can quite willingly screw with it in a number of ways. Hypnosis, in my opinion, is just another such method of screwing with your head.

On a humorous note, when I first read the chapter in my book on "Substance Abuse", I made the mistake of reading it carefully oneshot. Including going through all the lists. Of course, I was THINKING every thought it said to think for every technique, even though I wasn't actually even trying to "test" them. Let me tell you, when I finished that chapter, my brain felt so freaking fried. I actually did feel quite strange for the next 12 minutes...