Will the world's near toxic level obsession with perverseness never cease?

[Alexander]

I wasn't sure where to put this topic, so I thought the general discussion might be the best place.

Also, if the topic's level of forum appropriateness goes beyond the rules, I apologize in advance and will allow any edits or closures that might follow.

And now for the topic at hand.

I'm getting really, really tired of the level of obsession and commonality that people put with sex.

Today was one of those, "last straw" moments. I had a few letters to send off, so I walked the short distance from my house to mail them off. Upon reaching my destination, there were a group of teenagers discussing something that I wasn't listening to. I put the letters in the mail box and turned around to go home, when one of the boys called out a question to me asking what my name was.

I became a little nervous because I had seen him before and didn't trust him, but I felt just walking away without a word would be rude so I replied, "Alexander".

He then asked me how old I was, I replied, "18". Feeling a little more uncomfortable at that point, I started walking away without a second thought.

Then came the third question, "Are you still a virgin? I'm not!"

I didn't reply to his question. I felt so scared he would even think of asking such a dreadful question that I suddenly started walking faster and then ran as fast as I could back home, locked the door, and took a few minutes to calm down.

After that, I felt a little flustered as I couldn't even think of why someone would ask a very personal and private question. I soon came to realize, again, that in this world it's become so common that people think nothing of it anymore, at least most.

And I'm tired of it. That was just one moment in many I've experienced. In my own family, we only have one married couple. 8 other couples have all had children out of wedlock. But the point is, it's reaching a point where it feels like it's just daily talk.

And I can't help but wonder if by the time I'm 50 marriage will only be kept among religious people, or the situation of having children out of wedlock will be so common that even children shows will make nothing of it, if they haven't already.

The other problem also just comes from the obsession. I can keep myself away from it, but if I personally wanted too, I could turn a corner and find mountains worth of everything from articles to magazines that have nothing to do with the actual subject.

Sex should be a very private and closely held practice among only the couple. But in this world, it feels so cluttered that eventually I fear the day when I can't walk outside without breathing it in.

I know there are people who still take it very seriously, but the people who treat it like the wind feel like the overwhelming majority, and I've had quite enough with it. Can't most people think about, no. Most people should keep it off of their minds so much, let alone discuss it so openly.

It needs to stop, and it needs to stop soon. Does anyone else feel like this?

[minutz3]

Ah.
Don't forget the "LGBT/GLBT"-people.
They'll be "married" as well, I guess, since they're so keen on getting through and having the word "married" all over them, they won't stop "marrying" each other until, well, Jesus comes back and flames them to bits or something.

Maybe people will end "marrying" several people also.

I remember asking my Priest if, since that's what Catholicism teaches us, the Church is going to die and then live again like Jesus?
He simply answered me with a "Yes".

I think this is a step in this process.
Maybe The Church will "die", as an organisation, while still "living" in people's hearts, and then come to rescue of this people when Jesus comes back.

Well, I don't know, and I guess I got carried away a tad bit...

[Sammy Boy]

Though I know this is taken out of context, perhaps this passage will encourage you:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then a voice said to him, "What are you doing here, Elijah?"

He replied, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, broken down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too."

The LORD said to him, "Go back the way you came, and go to the Desert of Damascus. When you get there, anoint Hazael king over Aram. Also, anoint Jehu son of Nimshi king over Israel, and anoint Elisha son of Shaphat from Abel Meholah to succeed you as prophet. Jehu will put to death any who escape the sword of Hazael, and Elisha will put to death any who escape the sword of Jehu. Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel-all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and all whose mouths have not kissed him."

(1 Kings 19:13-18 - emphasis added)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe even when you feel like you're the only one holding onto the faith - God always preserves a remnant.

[AsianBlossom]

Yeah, I've felt that way too many are preoccupied with it. Of course, though, I think what those guys did might have been termed as sexual harassment; you didn't want to hear about it or talk about it, and they just kind of unpleasantly sprung it on you. Besides, they were totally out of line, considering that they didn't even know you. That's not how it should be.

It sad and really sickening that people would be so open about this kind of thing. I saw in this one manga something that made me a little happy, but raise an eyebrow at the same time. I think it was in Gals! or something like that. This one girl was asking these guys if they thought all girls from one area of Tokyo (I think) were sluts, and she shouted out something like, "Well, guess what? I'm still a virgin!" and then the other girls nearby started laughing. She was all, "What? It's all a matter of finding the right guy." I applaud her standing up for virtue, but she did kind of shout it out to anyone within earshot. O.o

So yeah, you're not alone, Alec-kun. And I'm sorry you had to go through that.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I don't think that's obsessiveness over sex that's the problem, rather just downright immaturity.

Clearly you're more mature than them. Sometimes you can't do much besides pray and hope that their lives don't spiral downward.

Edit: I meant in your recent experience. I still agree with your assessment. That and marketing is what makes sex something over-glorified and obsessed about. In reality, any two monkeys can mate.

[AsianBlossom]

Amen to that.

[termyt]

You let him get to you. The world is full of cruel and insensitive people - try not to let them dictate to you your mood or how your feel. Unfortunately, letting someone sees that something bothers you is only going to encourage a lot of them to bother you more.

[Danderson]

You let him get to you. The world is full of cruel and insensitive people - try not to let them dictate to you your mood or how your feel. Unfortunately, letting someone sees that something bothers you is only going to encourage a lot of them to bother you more.

Know exactly what you mean with that.....

Going back to the first post though, I agree heartily with your statement Alex....Though, unfortunetly I do not believe it will stop anytime soon.....

[Sheol777]

Alexander I totally agree with your assessment of society as a whole.

Do you really think that this issue with sex is not a problem people? Just watch tv, open a magazine, listen to the radio. Sex sells...and why does it sell? Because first of all it is a natural instinct that causes pleasure. However it is an instinct that has been exploited and perverted by the prince and power of the air. Not that we can blame him for all this, we have a free will to choose what we do with our sexuality and what we tap into.

Sex is the easy sell that appeals to people on a primal level. Without the temperance of self control our lusts can run wild. People in the general public (as you have encountered Alexander) are totally buying into this....and why shouldn't they? Heck even parents are teaching their kids 'safe sex' instead of abstinance. Where else would they hear the radical idea of 'no sex before marrage' from anyone else? Only a radical thinker would preasent a crazy idea like that. May I present to you my favorite radical thinker: Jesus Christ.

You see people reject a proper sexual view because they reject Christ and his teachings...Alexander next time something like this happens just remember that it is not you that they are rejecting, it is Christ in you.

[Nate]

You see people reject a proper sexual view because they reject Christ and his teachings...

Then how do you explain Buddhists, atheists, Mormons, and Hindus who believe sex before marriage is wrong? I'm not picking on you, Sheol, but you've raised a point that grates on me. It's irritating how arrogant some Christians are that they believe they are the only people in the world capable of being moral. As I have said, a thousand times before, morality ≠]Heck even parents are teaching their kids 'safe sex' instead of abstinance.[/QUOTE]
Heh, my feelings on that would start a total flame war that would get this thread locked...so I'll just say I agree with you but probably not in the way you expect me to.

To get back to Alexander...

I can't help but wonder if by the time I'm 50 marriage will only be kept among religious people

I doubt that. If nothing else, marriage is a useful societal function. Joint filing of income taxes, and speaking from a person in the working world, health insurance benefits extend only to spouses and children...not girlfriends/boyfriends. Thus any man and woman who lived together and didn't get married, well, it would be absurd strictly from a monetary viewpoint, since she wouldn't be covered under his insurance. Marriage won't die, so you don't have to worry about that one.

Most people should keep it off of their minds so much, let alone discuss it so openly.

Er, speaking from personal experience, that one's easier said than done. <.<;;

As far as the guy you mentioned, I'd say it has more to do with the fact that he's a jerk than his views on sex. I've known people that thought sex before marriage was okay, but they didn't ever say things like that guy said, and they never gave me a hard time about my beliefs. They looked at porn, they treated sex as "just something else I want," but never pressured me to feel the same way.

So I have a feeling it's his personality, not his view on sex, that makes him an unpleasant person. You could even replace "Are you a virgin" with something else and it would have had the same result. "Hey, have you ever climbed Mount Everest? I HAVE!" "Hey, have you ever beaten down an alligator with your bare hands? I HAVE!" Just an attempt to make himself look better than you by comparison, probably to impress his friends.

So yep. My thoughts. For what they're worth.

[ShiroiHikari]

Next time some immature jerk asks you that question, say something like, "Yeah, I am a virgin. Is there a problem with that?"

Anyway, I've gotten a little more...er, how do I say this? Well, I've become a little more open about sex as I've gotten older. I won't talk about it to just anybody, but sometimes it's helpful to talk about it with someone I really trust. (And there's a problem if you can't have a mature discussion about sex with someone whom you're engaged to marry. ) I mean, it's a natural function that's vital to the survival of the human race, and it's unhealthy to treat it like it's an unforgivable sin, because it's not. So I don't see any problem with discussing it-- within reason.

[Kat Walker]

I feel your disappointment often, sometimes I fear people don't understand real love and commitment anymore. Outside of the Bible, there is not much of a reason to strive for purity and loyalty in our relationships. I sadly, am not a virgin, and I really wish I still was. So before you feel pressured by the crowd to have a flippant attitude about sex, remember that there are many of us who learned the hard way that God's commandments are truly in our best interests. If you're a virgin, be proud, and please don't let anyone make you think otherwise.

Unfortunately, society's affair with the perverse will not die down any time soon (But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. ~ 2 Timothy 3:13). That is why it is vital that you pray for strength and trust God in these trying times. I know that being young in this generation is a terrible challenge, but through Jesus you can overcome anything. (I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me. ~ Philippians 4:13).

As I have said, a thousand times before, morality ≠ Christianity. People who are not Christians at all are perfectly capable of being moral, and I have known atheists who believe sex before marriage is wrong. Obviously not for the same reasons we believe it to be, but that doesn't change the fact.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing about you that other religions can have good morals. The problem is, the good in their message is mixed with many dangerous falsehoods. But we are all in the same boat, Christians and non-Christians alike - without God, none of us would have any hope of ever being truly "good".

[Tenshi no Ai]

I won't get too much into it, but one thing I've found out is that people sure don't treat marriage like it used to be. Marriage, being the tightly bound commitment, well, people just divorce as if it were nothing! Just as simple as breaking up, nowadays. My dad is already on his 3rd marriage :/ Like, I don't understand... I don't know if it's that image that's ruining it all or what. I've even contemplated on what the definition of 'marriage' is, with one definition being " a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each other in the manner of a husband and wife, without legal sanction" which is interesting. What I even thought was even more interesting, is in OT when all 2 people had to do to get 'married' was go into a consummation tent, have sex, and they were bound. I've even thought about it sometimes: is that all you truly need to be married, rather than need a ceremony and write on papers for insurance benefits etc? Heck, some people just use marriage commissioners rather than someone from a church to do their wedding, which makes them officially married, even with no religious faction involved (if, that is to say, a marriage needs a priest/pastor/etc to truly be married). Just a thought...

But beside from that, about people who prance around saying they had sex or whatever, I HATE that. It's like 'you're not a man until you've had sex or else you're an outcast' or whatever. Like 'ooooo BIG FREAKIN DEAL! You've had sex? Well so have the other few billion people in the world!" Maybe it's some masculine ego thing, making them think they're big and all, or something. For girls, it's different from what I've noticed their attitude is, being more a quiet thing that you only discuss with your closest girlfriends (being the type of friends you share EVERY little thing about you with). Heck, bad enough in society that if a guy has sex, he's a hero (especially if he bags a few different ones) but if a girl is known for that, she's known as a few derogatory phrases. And that's just... ug :/

[Nate]

I don't think anyone is disagreeing about you that other religions can have good morals. The problem is, the good in their message is mixed with many dangerous falsehoods.

Oh, I don't deny that. What I'm saying is, Sheol was implying that non-Christians would find sex before marriage acceptable because they reject Christ. This is not true, as I have had atheist friends who reject Christ but still believe sex before marriage is wrong.

[mitsuki lover]

I think Nate is right on this point.Just because a person is a non-Christian or even a non-Theist doesn't mean they don't have morals or a moral code by which they live by.

It all comes down to a person's inner moral compass.Some people no matter what their beliefs or sexuality will simply have poor moral compasses.

[rocklobster]

Just remember, Alex, the world is ALWAYS worth saving.

[Sheol777]

Then how do you explain Buddhists, atheists, Mormons, and Hindus who believe sex before marriage is wrong? I'm not picking on you, Sheol, but you've raised a point that grates on me. It's irritating how arrogant some Christians are that they believe they are the only people in the world capable of being moral. As I have said, a thousand times before, morality ≠ Christianity. People who are not Christians at all are perfectly capable of being moral, and I have known atheists who believe sex before marriage is wrong. Obviously not for the same reasons we believe it to be, but that doesn't change the fact.

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.
People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self‑control, brutal, not lovers of the good,
treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God–
having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. 2 Timothy 3:1-5

Do other religions and moral people have some of 'christian morality'? Certainly, they do not however honor God in their 'morality'. A conscience is something we have in us all. Some can ignore it, some will hear it. God created us with one to draw us to Him and his will, in other words godliness. Can a non-believer be moral? Yes.
However by rejecting the tugging of their God-given conscience...or perhaps even the leading of the Holy Spirit, they are rejecting Jesus and his word.

Heh, my feelings on that would start a total flame war that would get this thread locked...so I'll just say I agree with you but probably not in the way you expect me to.

Nate you seem to be a critical thinker, and I like my christianity with a healthy dose of intelligence. We may differ on this I am sure, but I am open to hear what you have to say....in a PM of course.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing about you that other religions can have good morals. The problem is, the good in their message is mixed with many dangerous falsehoods. But we are all in the same boat, Christians and non-Christians alike - without God, none of us would have any hope of ever being truly "good".

Thank You for your understanding Kat.

[Raiden no Kishi]

I wouldn't chalk it up to any "near-toxic level obsession with perverseness", myself. Rather, I'd way it's a completely toxic obsession with oneself that has society in general in its grasp. It's a condition inherent to the species Homo sapiens. Do people have their own moral codes? Certainly. But the evidence shows that it is the default.

.rai//

[AsianBlossom]

Gah...can't even escape it at my school. But that's a given. If I can get through this class...it'll be through God's grace.

Please pray for me; my next class also involves sex...and it usually doesn't.

*falls over*

BTW, it's this kind of stuff that makes you wish you didn't learn so much "new" slang in one sitting. Ugh. Help.

EDIT: *can't get up* Help. Me. Gross. Ew.

[Mave]

I don't expect this to go away anytime soon. I think ppl were obsessed with sex in the past, still are, and will be in the future. The Bible mentions sexual immoralities quite a bit (OT included) so I presume that it was an issue before then. Maybe in these days, it looks like "toxic level" because we have the technology to share things across the Internet and every electronic gadget is all about visuals.

As for the person who asked whether you're a virgin, I think it's an ego issue. In this case, he was just using his ahem...experience with sex to equal with how great he is. Like someone mentioned earlier, it could have been used in the same context. "I got a 100% in my English test!" In such a case, you could be firm that you don't share his self-worth measurement. "Yes, I'm a virgin." If he gives you crap about it, you can just walk away. You can't force ppl to change their views but you can certainly let them know what yours are.

I see nothing wrong with talking about sex and being open about it as long as you keep it within God's Law. If ppl want to teach safe sex, I'm fine with it but I would hope Christian parents integrate abstinence whenever they talk to their kids. I'm not saying that kids should be forced to practice abstinence but they should be aware of their options and be informed of the consequences of their decisions.

It would be good to focus on an important point: By right, we're obeying God's law not because our good actions will earn us points in Heaven (come on, we cannot earn our way into Heaven by our good works so we should be careful not to be self-righteous) but more out of love and gratitude for what Jesus Christ has done for us.

Perhaps that makes the moral concept for Christians different from other religions? By personal observation, most of my atheist/agnostic friends have no qualms about pre-marital sex. Other non-believer friends who actually practice abstinence, do it mostly for personal pragmatic reasons (e.g. "I don't want to get preggie while in college!") or to save themselves (my religion tells me that I'll go to Heaven if I do good stuff/God will fry me if I had sex at all) or they just feel good about themselves when they avoid sex. Of course, if I missed out some other reason, let me know. The reasons behind one's choice of certain moral actions interests me.

I hope I don't come off sounding arrogant when discussing the moral concept for Christianity because there's nothing to boast about when it all boils down to Christ's Salvation. Neither do I expect everyone to agree with me. Nonetheless, I do want to point out that morality is not limited to Christianity but morality is certainly expected in Christianity. If there is no sense of morality in a self-professed Christian, well.....he/she is only a Christian by name, not by action.

[RobinSena]

Ah.
Don't forget the "LGBT/GLBT"-people.
They'll be "married" as well, I guess, since they're so keen on getting through and having the word "married" all over them, they won't stop "marrying" each other until, well, Jesus comes back and flames them to bits or something.

Is this where I say that they should be allowed to marry?
Oh, and the last part of sentence sounds amazingly freaking loving.

[Sheol777]

Is this where I say that they should be allowed to marry?
Oh, and the last part of sentence sounds amazingly freaking loving.

Wait....what?

[Raiden no Kishi]

Is this where I say that they should be allowed to marry?

If it is, then it's also the part where I remind you that this isn't the place for a theological/ethical argument. ^_^

[Quote=ChurchPunk]Oh, and the last part of sentence sounds amazingly freaking loving.[/quote]

While I'm going to give some benefit of the doubt and assume that it was less than 100% serious, you indeed have a point.

.rai//

[RobinSena]

Wait....what?

What what?

If it is, then it's also the part where I remind you that this isn't the place for a theological/ethical argument. ^_^

I know. That's why I didn't say anything else about it.

While I'm going to give some benefit of the doubt and assume that it was less than 100% serious, you indeed have a point.

Even if it wasn't 100% serious, how would it look to someone who's gay who could be reading it? It would just continue to make Christians look horrible.

[AsianBlossom]

While it may not look good, truth is truth.

[RobinSena]

While it may not look good, truth is truth.

Tell me, did Jesus speak more of love, or of fire and brimstone?

This will be my last post in this thread, because if I continue, this will simply degrade into a debate where no one will give ground.

[Puguni]

You know what I would have done?

"Eeeeewwwwww."

XD

[Nate]

I'm on your side, ChurchPunk. So don't worry. But to keep this thread from derailing and to avoid flames, I shall return to the topic at hand.

I hope this doesn't bug anyone (especially Alexander), but I had to get some stuff off my chest, because I was thinking about it at work tonight.

I feel really terrible about being a virgin. Now, that sounds bad, like I'm obsessed with sex or something, but that isn't exactly the case. I shall explain.

I suffer from mild depression, and a terrible self-image. If it was possible to have negative self-esteem, I would be in that category. Now again, what that guy yelled about not being a virgin, was based less on sex and more on a feeling of wanting to be superior to someone else. Even so, if someone said that to me, it would hurt, terribly much. Because I don't like being a virgin, and for someone to rub it in my face would be very painful.

The reason is simple, and doesn't have a whole lot to do with sex. Only a bit. It means that person was found attractive enough by a woman that she wanted to have sex with him...something that has never (and will never) happen to me. And that really hurts.

It's not about sex. It's about being desirable. When I was in Malta, my liberty buddies wanted to go to a house of ill repute, if you catch my drift. I didn't, but they outvoted me, and liberty buddies have to stick together in ports. So I went with them and sat out in the lobby. I got teased for it, but I didn't care. I could have lost my virginity right then and there, if I'd wanted. But I didn't. Because I didn't want the sex.

If I'd done anything that night, it would have destroyed me, COMPLETELY destroyed me emotionally. That woman wouldn't have cared anything for me. She only would have done it because it's her job. Because she wanted the money. I'd just be another one of her many customers. I didn't want that.

I really wish I could find a woman I could be with. Not only for sex, but also to hang out with, and watch TV with, and eat dinner with, and grow old together with.

So that's why I feel horrible about being a virgin still. Not because sex is so important to me, but because I just want a woman I can be with for the rest of my life, and well, the whole low self-esteem bit. So yeah. There you go.

[Alexander]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I also wanted to say I'm not looking for advice in this thread, but just to simply let out a little frustration and to express my concern with just how the world is acting with this subject.

Tenshi: On the subject of marriage, the ceremony, papers, and traditional ways don't make a marriage. What defines it and makes it important? The pure answer is, God and the couple. Nothing else. It's the couple that makes the commitment and promise to stay together which is, like everything else, a gift from God. The ceremony itself is just a way to say to everyone else that the couple is making that promise.

As for the importance of marriage, I don't even need to be explained why. The amount of broken and damaged families formed out of wed-lock are proof enough. I'm not saying anyone who performs out of wed-lock should be heavily condemned, and right can be made. But I know for a fact that marriage between both the couple and God is the only way to make a truly stable family.

[Tenshi no Ai]

Tenshi: On the subject of marriage, the ceremony, papers, and traditional ways don't make a marriage. What defines it and makes it important? The pure answer is, God and the couple. Nothing else. It's the couple that makes the commitment and promise to stay together which is, like everything else, a gift from God. The ceremony itself is just a way to say to everyone else that the couple is making that promise.

Nice feedback.

And yeah it's sure something else when people go and elope in Vegas or those drive-thru 'weddings' to pick up papers, or even moreso, Christians who go and get married SO quickly just so they can have sex... I know of a number of friends who had a similar look at it. Like, pick up the papers JUST so you can do stuff (tying it into eloping a bit). It's just... well, I can't think I'm tired and rambling on^^ It's just... not good to have that quick-fix of a 'wedding' just so they can still be righteous about it.

The amount of broken and damaged families formed out of wed-lock are proof enough.

Nowadays, it's either or. I see broken families who are married and fall apart, and broken relationships with bfs/gfs having issues and fall apart over and over. Think I see about 50-50 from it. Not to say one's more 'successful' than the other, but just... there needs to be more love in the world