Want to learn Japanese

[KBMaster]

To be blunt, I need a hobby(that isn't video games or computer-related). I can't learn it on my own, so I need a site that will teach me and challenge me. I've been wanting to learn for a while, but I haven't had any site that would teach me. If anyone knows a site where I could learn Japanese, please tell me.

[samuraidragon]

Here is a really good one, but be warned: It's hard-core.

http://www.nihongoresources.com/language/lessons.html

[KBMaster]

It looks like you need a basic understanding of Kanji...

Am I going to have to install a Japanese LAnguage pack(like my computer suggests everytime I go to a Japanese site)? The hiragana and katakana come up as little boxes.

[samuraidragon]

Yes, you are. If you can't see any characters, you aren't going to get very far online. And no, you don't need any understaning of kanji, the lesson 0 is about reading hiragana, which is vital to the lesson structure. Kanji doesn't play a role for a while.

[Azier the Swordsman]

http://www.yesjapan.com

60+ lessons.

Forums.

Chat.

200+ downloadable shows on various subjects on Japanese/Japan.

1000+ downloadable music from many Japanese bands from every genre you can think of.

Teacher assistance.

Live lessons.

Certified tests.

$20 a month.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Try Rosetta Stone.
http://www.rosettastone.com/en/

[RedMage]

Try Rosetta Stone.
http://www.rosettastone.com/en/

Have you tried it? (See my other thread.)

[Raiden no Kishi]

I would strongly advise AGAINST using Rosetta Stone for Japanese.

Why? I tried it. It's all trial and error. You have to figure it out by yourself, which irritated the heck out of me.

I found an awesome resource. Look up Project LRNJ: Slime Forest. It's a silly little old-school RPG with wy outdated graphics, no sound, simple gameplay, and a laughable story.

BUT.

It is an invaluable resource for learning hiragana and katakana, the two main Japanese writing systems [you can also learn kanji, but I believe that's extra]. Hiragana is used for Japanese words, while katakana is used for words "borrowed" from other languages [i.e. you use it to write non-Japanese words in Japanese]. Yes, you do need to learn two alphabets. Breathe, allow your heart rate to return to some semblance of normalcy, and hop to it. Now, Slime Forest is trial-and-error like Rosetta Stone, but it does tell you what the correct answer is when you get it wrong [until you venture forth into the slime caves to rescue a princess or something . . . armed with a gardening hoe. Yeah. Final Fantasy this ain't.] "But Raiden," you say, "I thought you hated Rosetta Stone because it was trial-and-error!" And I do ~ very much. HOWEVAR. The reason trial-and-error doesn't work in Rosetta Stone is that it is teaching you vocabulary and grammar [which can be confusing, as Japanese has funky syntax or word order], which is too complicated for trial-and-error. Slime Forest is just teaching you to associate a syllable with a symbol [actually two ~ remember those two alphabets?]. A note: It helps immensely to associate each symbol with something in your head that reminds you of the symbol's meaning. For example, every time I saw the symbol for "ne", I thought of the character Nenene from Read or Die, for "ri" I thought of my dear friend whose user name on CAA is rii namuras. Yes, I know they're obscure. They work for me, and that's the point. As long as they help you to remember the meanings of the symbols, they're good.

It works on Windows and OS X [I use a Mac, so this made me immensely happy] and may support Linux [I don't remember if it does or doesn't]. Download it. It's cool. I like to put on music [or the latest CAA gamecast or podcast ~ I'm listening to Gamecast 21 right now] in order to make up for the lack of sound. It is essential that you learn your kana ASAP, because it will be harder to learn everything in romaji [English letters] and THEN switch, which was what I tried to do. Now, I'm not so good with the grammar and vocabulary yet, but I'm picking up katakana [which it teaches you first ~ these are the blue slimes] and some hiragana [which the game is starting to introduce ~ these are the orange slimes] with a speed that is startling. Drill this game every day, and you'll be able to read hiragana and katakana in no time.

For vocabulary and grammar, I suggest looking for some online resources and/or books. Here's some links that I thought useful enough to save:

http://www.animeinfo.org/animeu/ling101.html ~ basics of Japanese

http://www.thejapanesepage.com/news.php ~ all sorts of stuff from basic to advanced Japanese

http://www.japanese-online.com/ ~ Japanese lessons, the basic ones are available to all, more available to members

http://www.languageguide.org/im/alpha/jp/hiragana.jsp ~ hiragana and katakana, with some sample words using them. Very cool.

http://lrnj.com/ ~ home of Slime Forest. It's the last link, but make it your first stop.

Rock rock on!

.rai//

[Aruiko]

There is also program called Yokuso. It is for learning kanji ect.
But it´s only trial version. 30 days. But its good. It teaches how to draw kanji sings in right order. (like first upper line, then down, two verticals...ect..)

[Mr. Rogers]

www.yesjapan.com

60+ lessons.

Forums.

Chat.

200+ downloadable shows on various subjects on Japanese/Japan.

1000+ downloadable music from many Japanese bands from every genre you can think of.

Teacher assistance.

Live lessons.

Certified tests.

$20 a month.

I agree. I have been using YesJapan for two years now and it is the best way to learn Japanese. The other stuff out there is crap - to be quite honest. At best, it will only teach you a few things - you won't become fluent. Get YesJapan.

[LittleTokyo91]

Yeah I have Rosetta Stone also. I still use it, but its not all that great.

[Bobtheduck]

For spoken Japanese, I use Pimsleur... It's the best method I know of short of living in Japan.

The best way to learn any writing, including how to read it, I believe is to just write it a lot. You'll pick up Hiragana and Katakana in no time, and Kanji? Well, with Kanji you need to find a resource that teaches you stroke order, too... You need to understand how to pronounce it in several ways, and why you change the pronunciation... Kanji is much much much harder in every respect. A good set of beginner kanji to learn are the numbers. 　

I just now found a website that shows you strokes as long as you have the kanji to begin with... http://www.yamasa.cc/members/ocjs/kanjidic.nsf/SearchKanji3%21OpenForm

一.........just one stroke, left to right.


二 ......... Two strokes, top to bottom. All horizontal strokes go left to right.


http://infohost.nmt.edu/~armiller/japanese/strokeorder.htm


三......... Three strokes, top to bottom.


四.......... Ｔｈｉｓ　ｉｓ where strokes get more complex.　Pay close attention to the animation... The first stroke is one direction, the second stroke goes right, then down. That is very important.

五..........http://www.yamasa.cc/members%5Cocjs%5Ckanjidic.nsf/SortedByKanji2/%E4%BA%94?OpenDocument


六..........http://www.yamasa.cc/members%5Cocjs%5Ckanjidic.nsf/SortedByKanji2/%E5%85%AD?OpenDocument


七..........http://www.yamasa.cc/members%5Cocjs%5Ckanjidic.nsf/SortedByKanji2/%E4%B8%83?OpenDocument


八..........http://www.yamasa.cc/members%5Cocjs%5Ckanjidic.nsf/SortedByKanji2/%E5%85%AB?OpenDocument


九..........http://www.yamasa.cc/members%5Cocjs%5Ckanjidic.nsf/SortedByKanji2/%E4%B9%9D?OpenDocument


十..........http://www.yamasa.cc/members%5Cocjs%5Ckanjidic.nsf/SortedByKanji2/%E5%8D%81?OpenDocument

There are kanji 1 - 10. All the rest of the kanji are on that site, too, but for meanings and readings, you'll want more than that... It won't help you much if you don't know the meaning of on and kun readings... There are rules to which pronunciations you use that I still haven't quite figured out yet... I think someone explained it to me once or twice, but I don't remember...

for hiragana, http://www.nihongoweb.com/Hiraganapro/index.html

The issue with learning a language is keep using it... I have forgotten so much Japanese because I stopped using and learning more...

[Mitsukai]

YesJapan.com is ftw for those who can afford it. *cough*
But, not everyone can shell out the money for it.

With that said, learning the kana is essential!
Most people suggest learning it first and foremost.

To study it for free lookie here: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Japanese/Kana_Lessons

I know, I know...it's Wikipedia...but it's working so well for me! (nearly done learning hiragana already, with little study time put in!)

How did I do it so fast?
One word, mnemonics.

As you go through the wikibook lessons, first you will be introduced to the kana, then you will be given a picture showing proper stroke order, then the sound and mnemonic.

For example, あ looks like an apple.
First you draw the leaves on the stem, then you draw the stem down into the apple, and then you draw the round fruit.

This type of imagery might seem pointless and stupid at first, but take it from me, it'll make kana quick and painless!

My method is simple.

First I go over the Wikibook kana lesson, and visualize the mnemonic given for each kana.
Then, I take the time to write the kana out by hand using proper stoke order, keeping the mnemonic and sound of the kana in mind the whole time.

Then I go here: http://www.realkana.com/ and drill the set of kana I just learned, adding old sets once I have proven mastery of the new set.

It worked for me, and I have ADD.

So, it has a good shot at working for anyone.

What site should you go to once you learn hiragana and katakana?

I don't know yet, but I'll let ya know when I find out, lol!

The site samuraidragon posted looks promising, lol...can't wait to check it out.

At any rate, good luck learning Japanese, you can do it!

[Bobtheduck]

An important part of learning Japanese pronunciation is deleting english phonics from your brain... English phonics of any variety will get in the way of reading Japanese... Realize, with japanese symbols, you are always talking about sounds... To call them letters is wrong, too...

What may seem like the easiest one to learn, O, may be difficult unless you turn off your "english" brain.The Japanese O is like "oh" but oo isn't like "ooh" it's still "oh" just longer... Actually, even "oh" isn't right for that, because that is a combination of two vowel sounds when we say "oh" in english... We are saying o and u.

Here's a good exercise. Pay attention to your mouth when you say the word "Oh" Notice how your lips close a little. Don't do that. Try to keep your mouth in one position when you say "oh." Just make the first part of the sound. That is the Japanese O. When you see oo in Japanese, it just means you extend the sound longer. Japanese is a rythmic language, so the length of time you say the vowels can change the meaning of the word... The idea when you learn Japanese is to learn to speak at a uniform speed, to an extent anyhow... Another thing with the Japanese O お　is that, while in English it is spoken with the sound focusing on the front of the mouth, in Japanese, it's pronounced with the sound toward the back of your mouth... That's where the "asian" sound comes from in Japanese, because otherwise, it would have nearly the same pronunciations as spanish.

The sound you make when you say "oh" in english is two sounds. O and U. That's called a diphthong. There are no diphthongs in Japanese... Or triphthongs. Except for, maybe, the Y and W lines... ya is like a shortened version of ia. Yo is a shortened version of io. Yu is a shortened version of iu, Wa is like a shortened ua, and very rarely (when it's pronounced) wo is like a shortened uo, but those are the only exceptions to that rule...

あ　(a) is pronounced like ah. Like the o in bob in American English. I'm not sure what would be a better comparison in British or Aussie or Kiwi English, but bob would NOT be a good comparison. Unlike a few Aussie people I spoke with who were learning Japanese, it isn't any more acceptable to speak with an Aussie accent than it is to speak with an American one... Japan is a homogeneous society. You have to focus a lot on your "accent" in order for them to understand you. It's not like in the US where people are used to non-native accents.

い　(i) is pronounced like ee. Like beets.

う　(u) is pronounced like ooh. I think it may be in the middle of the mouth instead of the front, though. So even though it's essentially the same sound, it still has that asian sound to it.

え　(e) is pronounced like the e in bet. Once again, this comparison would likely only work with American english (and, I'd guess, Tokyo Japanese)

お　（o) I went over this earlier...

The vowells are the most important thing to learn... Pronunciation is pretty easy from there... Just remember this:

k and g are the same sound, one voiced (you use your voice to say it) the other devoiced (you use breath to say it, not voice) K is devoiced. G is voiced.

かきくけこ　that's the k line... The k line and the G line are identical, except the g line has voice marks (two little lines)
がぎぐげご　That's the G line... See?

It works the same way with S and Z, T and D... Those are all logical. What ISN'T logical, however, is h and b... In reality, P is the devoiced variation on B, but in the line, it's H, then B if you add voice marks. To make p, you take the same line and add a maru (circle.)

はひふへほ　the h line
ばびぶべぼ　the b line
ぱぴぷぺぽ。 the P line

The g line, ga gi gu ge go, tends to be a bit nasaly, so with gi, it can be (but isn't always) pronounced more like ngi (like the ng at the end of song)

The T's in Japanese are pronounced a bit more loosely than in english, but unlike in english, they are never voiced... Say the word "batter" in english. If it sounds anything like "badder" you are like most Americans (I don't know about Brittish, or anywhere else) and you need to train that out of your thoughts... The t must never have a D sound in Japanese, but at the same time, you need to not pronounce it as hard as an english T...

You'll sometimes see the T line like this: Ta Chi Tsu Te To... The reason for the Chi and the Tsu is because the Ts are pronounced more softly... It isn't really a chi sound and there isn't really an s in the Tsu sound, it's just what it sounds like to an English speaker's ear due to the softer way the Ts are pronounced.

Then there's the S line... All you need to know is that si is pronounced softly so it sort of sounds like shi... Not completely, about halfway.

With the Z line, Zi is pronounced softly too... It is pronounced like the s in Hoosiers... Or the g in a lot of french words like fromage. You'll see it as Ji, but it isn't pronounced quite like that... When combined with the small ya, yu, or yo, however, the j sound is stronger (ja, ju, jo)

The D line isn't complete. Da ji dzu de do. Dzu and and a second ji... I know ぢand づ are used, but じ is much more common, and　づ is very rare. I believe my teacher said づ is basically only used when the word has something to do with blood.

Another difficult line for english speakers is the R line... Rs in Japanese are not like Rs in English. It is closer to a Spanish R than the english R, but at the same time, it seems to be (this is my own observation, nothing official that I've learned) interchangable with an L sound... For those of you that have a hard time pronouncing the spanish type r, it may be easier just to make it an l sound... It will be understood either way.

Then there's Fu... There isn't actually an English F sound in Japanese... Instead, on the h line, hu is spoken with the lips very close together and the teeth almost closed. It sounds halfway between hu and fu.

There is an N line, na ni nu ne no, but there is also an n that is isolated... Really, they aren't the same sound... N tends to be a little nasally. It seems (once again, simply observation, not something I learned officially) to be interchangeable with m, depending on what sounds it is after or before. The actual n line, however, is NOT nasaly.

Then there's the w line. Wa is pronounced how it looks, but wo is used as a grammatical function, and when used that way it's simply pronounced as "o". Along those lines, he as a grammatical function is pronounced "e" and ha as a grammatical function is pronounced "wa" So わたしはにほんごをべんきょうします。。　is pronounced "Watashi wa nihongo o benkyo shimasu." and 日本へいきたいです。 is pronounced "Nihon e ikitai desu." (those first two symbols are kanji... The symbol for sun, and the symbol for book... That's what makes the word "nihon" which means Japan.)

The issue with devoiced syllables, such as s and k, is that when a word ends in su or ku, the vowell is often devoiced. Try saying the word "clock" If you pay close attention, you'll notice a bit of a sound after the "k" in clock. You can't end a word in a k sound. What you end up doing is making a devoiced vowell at the end of the word... That's all it is in Japanese... A big difference, however, is you CAN make an s sound at the end of a word, but in Japanese, they still add a devoiced vowell. While you can get away with saying "des" instead of "desu" you may want to learn to say it with the u at the end, but not voicing it... That may be advanced, though, and not a concept I can really relay over text.

The t line can also devoice a vowel, but in to rather than tu. This is particularly useful in figuring out how to say english words in Japanese.

I think that's it for pronunciation.

[Syreth]

There is also program called Yokuso. It is for learning kanji ect.
But it´s only trial version. 30 days. But its good. It teaches how to draw kanji sings in right order. (like first upper line, then down, two verticals...ect..)

I also recommend Yookoso. I've used it for almost a full school year so far. The set of books, plus the CD is a bit pricey, but it teaches you want you need to know. If you're motivated, you can do the lessons yourself without the help of a teacher, although if you can take a Japanese class with a native speaker, that would help tremendously.

[Fiore teh Duck]

http://www.yesjapan.com

60+ lessons.

Forums.

Chat.

200+ downloadable shows on various subjects on Japanese/Japan.

1000+ downloadable music from many Japanese bands from every genre you can think of.

Teacher assistance.

Live lessons.

Certified tests.

$20 a month.

^_________^ I was about to reccomend the YesJapan book series.
as even if it isn't a website, it's a remarkable rescourse :3

[ishy]

I also recommend YesJapan, and think that it is worth the cost. I wish I had the time to go back and keep studying through it.

I also used Rosetta Stone, and I didn't like it at all. YJ was 1000 times better.

[Tsuki]

note cards. It works for me. And always study them. all the time.

[Raiden no Kishi]

May I also add that a healthy sense of masochism is a must for studying Japanese? [said only partially joking] It is a ton of hard work [shoot, I'm still working on actually being able to read kana and say basic things], and you're going to have to learn to accept that to succeed. Don't let it get you down, though ~ Japanese is a great language, despite all of its perceived oddities.

.rai//

[Dante]

There is also program called Yokuso. It is for learning kanji ect.
But it´s only trial version. 30 days. But its good. It teaches how to draw kanji sings in right order. (like first upper line, then down, two verticals...ect..)

It's likely from the textbook of the same name. I would second Raidens concept, it a rather difficult language to learn. The only good part is that so few people really understand more than a few basic things so you can easily impress them with a little knowledge. Yes hirigana and katakana are necessary to learn the written language... but sadly no, learning them will help you nill in being able to READ actual Japanese... mainly because they keep using Kanji instead... why? To drive kids like us nuts that's why! But if you want to learn Japanese, my suggestion would be to drop the vocab and symbols on flash cards and just start flipping through them on spare time when you're not doing anything.

the basic setup of the language is that each vowel is precluded by a consanent (save NN which somehow manages to avoid this special rule) oh, and y is treated as a consanent in all cases. The vowels however, only make one sound (easy eh) a as in aha i as in eek u as in puke (bad choice of words I know ) e as in epitah and o as in oh my!

Once you learn the symbols in hirigana and katakana things are great, because each letter only makes one sound (whereas english has several sounds oft connected to a single letter). Thus, other than double vowels, this makes spelling in Japanese UBER easy. Bad news is, they also have a katakana alphabet and a kanji alphabet... and because they don't have nasty spelling problems your teachers will be a real pain over something called stroke order... what this means is that they can somehow (through psychic means) tell which order you drew your strokes on the page (they somehow look at the layering of ink). If (for the 45 stroke kanji) it doesn't match the stroke order they memorized (God only knows how they did this to begin with, but it must have involved pain in some physical manner) they will be very very displeased... you will lose points and they'll make a face at you... I don't know which is worse really cause it's quite addling to have someone pick on your stroke order after you've spent several hours attempting to memorize a complex picture for who knows what .

My advice is that the Japanese should simplify their language, cut the kanji, kill katakana, vaporize keigo... then it's a great language and quite possibly easier to learn then English! In the meantime, it's rather difficult to attempt such a thing.

-Pascal

(Good luck!)

[Mr. Rogers]

YesJapan.com now has a free 10 day trial. Do it now.

[Mave]

Hello all:

Where can I learn Christian terms in Japanese? For example:

Jesus Christ
Salvation
Forgiveness
Holy Spirit
Peace (in your heart)
Grace
Mercy
Redemption
Etc.etc.etc

I need to write my testimony in Japanese and will begin participating in missions to Japan (like...next month? Ack!) so I eventually need to learn all these terms. Can anyone help me in regards to this, pls? Thanks in advance! ^^;;