Corrupt Christian music

Postby **Pantakrator** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:20 pm

Hmm... Does anybody find it interesting that the website links you to Band/store/reviews of these bands?

BTW, please be careful with what you listen to. While I listen to Disciple, Theocracy, Bride, Tourniquet... There are valid points to be made against each of those bands, but you have to relize we all fall because we're human. Always let God guide your purchases. (Spelt wrong?)

Postby **Zarn Ishtare** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:29 pm

Ahh, wisdom out of the mouth of babes and younglings...and out of old folks too! tis a joy to the heart...

Postby **Knives** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:57 pm

Mave wrote:WOW....I just found this page. It's pretty interesting and .....well, I'll let you guys take a look first.

http://www.corruptchristianmusic.com/home/index.html

I haven't looked through it all but somehow the arguments against some Christian artists aren't very strong. Seriously, is this a joke?

I read on Jars of Clay since I'm a big fan. And they're telling me not to listen to JoC because of what the members listen to??? And just because one of the members has beer, ever now and then? Gosh.....I'm at lost for words. Opinions, anyone?

Note: If you are offended by Catholic Church bashing, you may not wanna go there.

I AM SO MAD AT THOSE_____.

Postby **Knives** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:58 pm

Knives wrote:I AM SO MAD AT THOSE_____.

Sorry about that i just got really really mad. I know it wasnt the christian way to act. ( just to tell you they ripped up my alltime favorite band POD sooooo bad)

Postby **skynes** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:52 pm

Umm...Actually, no. Your very wrong there skynes. Let me trace this: In Ancient Scotland, and in other places in Europe, there was Celtic music...And it stayed with the people of those countrys even after they came to the new world, and made music after that fashion. Now, for those who settled in the hills and mountains, this evolved into Bluegrass. Bluegrass evantually became country music. Now, country music is what Rock evolved out of, after combining with the sounds of blues, jazz, and other things that have their roots in bluegrass. And that is why Celtic music is the best, becuase without it, we wouldn't have half the types of music we do now....

Ok I stand corrected.

Doesn't really matter to me what the origins are.

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On the tatooing and piercings. Yes the Bible does say not to do them (is it Leviticus) but correct me if I'm wrong are those not part of the ceremonial law?

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They did bash Tolkien. Calling him an occultist like CS Lewis.

Postby **Hitokiri** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:17 pm

Kireihana wrote:By the way, J.R.R. Tolkien was Roman Catholic as well, and a close friend of C.S. Lewis. I wonder why they didn't take any time to bash him as well. (if they did, I didn't see it)

me earlier in this thread wrote:oh yeah by the way, they called C.S. Lewis an Occultist ::rollseyes::

He lumped Tolkien and Lewis in the same group. That made me laugh. I told some of my church friends bout the site and showed my parents. Everyone laughed and had a joyous time. This group seem almost amish to me.

One thing they said, All christian music shouldn't be listened to cause they are not a clear intepretation of what a Christian should be. God said go out and make disciples. They flip that idea and encourage us to keep in our little tiny bubble. So according to them, since I'm friends with druggies, then I'm a druggie too :eyebrow:

::shakes head in disgust::

I would love to see what think of anime. Devil incarnat in the form of Cartoons!! :lol:

Postby **churchgirl111** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:53 pm

LOL culture shock!!
IT is silly...
you have to be "wise as serpents yet gentle as doves" and go out of the bubble!!
GO against the flow..not stay within a certain Christian culture (different from beliefs ) meaning different music, dressing, etc God didn't say we have to liimit our individuality and become drones...in my opinion he uses our individuality for a purpose and I think that if you dress in jeans and not a dress in a church service it is ok...but of course sticking with the Bible and faith is essential just not the "culture so to speak of many churches I see today have." POP THE BUBBLE!!!

Postby **Hitokiri** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:00 pm

::pops bubble::

Postby **Solid Ronin** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:03 pm

lets sacrafice him to our God

Postby **churchgirl111** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:18 pm

huh??????????????????????? @ Ronin Karai????????????????

Postby **churchgirl111** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:20 pm

hehehe thankyou Hitokiri *bows

Postby **Locke** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:51 pm

lol i cant belive this :lol:

whoa too many smilys :sweat:

did anyone see the article on Michael W. Smith ??? :lol:

Postby **Debitt** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:09 pm

...I had a long post all typed out...but I lost it. So I'm just going to say, this site makes me very very sad.

Postby **Pantakrator** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:17 pm

Hehehe... I wonder if they like any BGCM? Oh yeah, It just came to me; I have a felling Mortification would send them into a fit of uncontrollable seizures. :evil:

Postby **Zilch** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:24 pm

By the way, C.S Lewis was the guy who witnessed to JRR Tolkien...or vice versa...but they were both Christians.

Postby **Da Rabid Duckie** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:02 pm

Zilch wrote:By the way, C.S Lewis was the guy who witnessed to JRR Tolkien...or vice versa...but they were both Christians.

Definitely vice versa, bud. It was Tolkien who witnesses to Lewis, and through Lewis' own studies (and while writing Mere Christianity, in an attempt to disprove it) found Christ and became one of our greatest theologians.

And I still think that site stinks. (had to keep it on topic. ^_^)

Postby **ice122985** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:03 pm

Alright, here's what i have to say...

Yes, this site has extremely bad logic and weak arguments. And that there are some artists that i find it hard to see why they bash them.

But...

I agree with them on thier stand against Christian rock. In fact, i believe it is wrong for Christian music to be similar to secular music(rock, rap, coutnry, etc.). My reasons for this is because God calls us to be separate. Therfore, songs that given to Christ in worship must be different and distinct in form and style. Another reason for this is that these type of songs tend to get the audience paying more attention to the musc, the beat, the rythym, and so on, rather than focusing on the words of praise, grattitude that we are offering to our Lord. This is why I pay more attention to indivudual songs- while Stacie Orrico is no longer just a Christian artist, there are a few of her past songs that are still worth listening to. I've learned to pick and choose what i am going to listen to.

As for the Catholic Church...there are a few doctrinal problems I have with them concerning the Bible. Enough said on that subject.

To finish this, all I know is that my God called me to be seperate...in all that i do. God bless, people.

Postby **Da Rabid Duckie** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:25 pm

ice122985 wrote:In fact, i believe it is wrong for Christian music to be similar to secular music(rock, rap, coutnry, etc.). My reasons for this is because God calls us to be separate. Therfore, songs that given to Christ in worship must be different and distinct in form and style. Another reason for this is that these type of songs tend to get the audience paying more attention to the musc, the beat, the rythym, and so on, rather than focusing on the words of praise, grattitude that we are offering to our Lord. This is why I pay more attention to indivudual songs- while Stacie Orrico is no longer just a Christian artist, there are a few of her past songs that are still worth listening to. I've learned to pick and choose what i am going to listen to.

You know, that was a very intelligent and well-put statement. Kudos to you.

I'm basically the same way myself, if it helps me get into his presence I listen to it. If it doesn't, I'm not as apt to listen to it. But I didn't need that site to point that out to me, they just went about doing it in all the wrong ways.

Postby **MasterDias** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:01 pm

ice122985 wrote:I agree with them on thier stand against Christian rock. In fact, i believe it is wrong for Christian music to be similar to secular music(rock, rap, coutnry, etc.). My reasons for this is because God calls us to be separate. Therfore, songs that given to Christ in worship must be different and distinct in form and style. Another reason for this is that these type of songs tend to get the audience paying more attention to the musc, the beat, the rythym, and so on, rather than focusing on the words of praise, grattitude that we are offering to our Lord. This is why I pay more attention to indivudual songs- while Stacie Orrico is no longer just a Christian artist, there are a few of her past songs that are still worth listening to. I've learned to pick and choose what i am going to listen to.

That is a well-thought post... however I don't agree with your first couple of statements.
If you wanted Christian music to be "seperate" from secular music in terms of types of music(rock, rap, country, classical, blues, jazz or whatever), you aren't going to find anything aside from the gregorian chant and possibly some church hymns that don't have any secular roots.

Postby **Da Rabid Duckie** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:19 pm

MasterDias wrote:That is a well-thought post... however I don't agree with your first couple of statements.
If you wanted Christian music to be "seperate" from secular music in terms of types of music(rock, rap, country, classical, blues, jazz or whatever), you aren't going to find anything aside from the gregorian chant and possibly some church hymns that don't have any secular roots.

I disagree with that, but I'm holding back as to why because:
1) It'd be opening up a theological discussion, a no no here
2) I'd carry this thread even more away from it's original purpose

Thinking about it now, you know what the thing that I hate most about that site is? It's that they bother to tear a lot of the Christian music scene down, but then never recommend what would actually be good and acceptable (by their standards). It just grates my nerves when people issue a correction or tell you that you should not do something without telling you what you should do instead. I mean, I'm not going to drop all Christian music and just sit there and listen to the Gaithers, but I'd really like to know what they would say was "acceptable" Christian music. You know, I think I'll ask them that and they state what they reply.

Postby **Technomancer** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:39 pm

What does it matter if Christian musicians are not necessarily writing "Christian music" in the sense of it being made for any sort of formal (or at all specific) worship? That a band sings about matters that are wholly, or in part, secular, why should that make them less Christian than any other?

Postby **Lochaber Axe** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:13 pm

Kireihana wrote:(and woe to the thought of actually drinking alcoholic beverages! I'm sure Jesus actually drank Juicy Juice at the Last Supper.)

A 2000 year-old company, that would be something. Anyways, you are missing a very important fact about those days. The water could kill you faster than a whole kilo of wine could. I also believe that there were no cases of drunk-driving. The only way that could have happened is if both man and horse were drunk. Of course the question would be of why the horse was drinking, but that is unimportant. Anywho, yes I can imagine an instance in the scroll reports:

Horse is witnessed weaving errantically along the road, rider barely able to stay on the saddle. Legionnaire rides up and pulls them over to the side of the street, lowers from saddle and tells the drunken man to do likewise. While the drunk takes a sobriety test, the tipsy horse relieves itself on the Legionnaires sandles (ewww...). Both drunks are booked for RUI, Riding Under the Influence.

Today, however, the cons of alcohol far outweigh the pros. Drunk-driving kills and permanently injures thousands each year, alcohol has led to break up of marriages and loss of work, and also to other crimes such as robbery, rape, and murder. As modern-day Christians, we should try to decrease the use of it. Not Prohibition (it was so under-budgeted that it was pathetic) of course, but we should endorse gradual cultural sobriety.

Now for the topic of course,

That site has no knowledge of the true nature of the Word. The website endores a head in the sand doctrine. IN HISTORY, HAS ANYTHING BEEN DONE WHEN THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT CARES NOT TO DO ANYTHING TO CORRECT THE WRONG!!! REMEMBER WHAT CAUSED WORLD WAR II!!! Battlefields have never been taken by lobbing shells from the sides and never sending your infantry in. To clean up a mess, you must first get amongst the dirt and guck. You don't become filth yourself but you start stripping away the unclean and make clean.

Postby **Icarus** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:00 pm

The site is laughable, so I'll reply to Ice, who makes so much more sense than she does.

ice122985 wrote:I agree with them on thier stand against Christian rock. In fact, i believe it is wrong for Christian music to be similar to secular music(rock, rap, coutnry, etc.). My reasons for this is because God calls us to be separate. Therfore, songs that given to Christ in worship must be different and distinct in form and style.

What of songs that glorify God, but whose targeted audience are not christian? The artists behind them aim to provide an alternative to those who would not otherwise hear of the Gospel. I am not referring to "crossover" artists, who water down the message that they might expand their base]he's[/i] like."

ice122985 wrote:Another reason for this is that these type of songs tend to get the audience paying more attention to the musc, the beat, the rythym, and so on, rather than focusing on the words of praise, grattitude that we are offering to our Lord.

And then there's this. If you don't like the music, you won't give yourself the chance to listen to the words.

I haven't seen you in a while. Good post.

Postby **Zilch** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:55 am

We can debate until our bums fall off, but it all comes down to: If you don't like it, LEAVE IT ALONE! It always comes down to that. It comes down to what your conviction is. If you have a different conviction than your Christian brother or sister, than who are you to judge?

Postby **skynes** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:58 am

The problem I have with the Christian music must be different to secular is that this belief could carry onto everything.

We shouldn't read books, including the Bible, because satanists use books.

We shouldn't pray to God because pagans pray to false gods.

See what I mean?

I'm not getting at you with this Ice. If most Christian music doesn't help your walk or hinders it then don't listen to it. For me Christian rock and metal is a HUGE blessing. It has really helped me in my walk with God. Ultimately I see music genres as a personal conviction not a blanket of 'All this music is evil cause it doesn't help me'

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Anyway from my experience with these sites the music they recommend is country and western + classical + hymns with no music.

They seem to forget the C%W has more depressing lyrics than ANY other form of music (correct me if i'm wrong on that) and some classical composers were homosexual and racist!

I would rather listen to the heaviest, screamiest metal there is, done by a Christian artist with Christian lyrics glorifying God than listen to a racist classical composer... or depressing country.

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Postby **Solid Ronin** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:55 am

churchgirl111 wrote:huh??????????????????????? @ Ronin Karai????????????????

What we did it all the time in the thirthies....am im speaking about the guy making the stupid statements about christian music..but really im just joking I dont even like christian music

Postby **Pantakrator** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:41 am

Skynes and Zilch are right on track! Just because I can't listen to Demon Hunter, there are other very strong Christians that can, and vice-versa with rappers like MVP and Fiti Futuristic. It's all about your personal relationship with Christ, and what he has told you. Be spiritually aware, and let God take control. That's the key.

Postby **Mave** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:49 am

There's not a single Christian music type that's gonna be best for EVERY CHRISTIAN. I think God intended it that way and that's why we have The Holy Spirit to help us decide which music is best for the individual. *celebrates diversity and variety*

Postby **Debitt** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:54 am

skynes wrote:They seem to forget the C%W has more depressing lyrics than ANY other form of music (correct me if i'm wrong on that)

Q: What do you get when you play country music backwards?
A: You get your wife back, you get your job back, you get your dog back, you get your truck back....

Couldn't help myself. Sorry for going OT.

Postby **Haibane Shadsie** » Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:34 pm

*Just went and skimmed* People like this need to read up on the subject of Judgement, and about how it's God's thing to judge, and not man's.

They bashed poor Rich Mullins (God rest his soul), for Catholocism and Celtic influence in his music? I'm not a Catholic, myself, but I greatly respect Catholics, and just see them as another branch of Christianity... really... unity, people... we need to focus on the key stuff that all true Christians believe in and not pick and snip at one another for some petty church diffrences.

And the Celtic stuff... bah... Christianity's been assimiliating things from other cultures for centuries. It's one of the strengths of our faith... we can meet peopel where they are and have the freedom to take what is good in other cultures and use it for our own purposes. So what if some symbol *used* to be pagan? If it's not being used in a pagan way, why gripe about it?

Oh, I just looked in on their page about my favorite band, U2. Hey, part of the reason why I LIKE U2 is because they AREN'T OVERTLY Christian... they don't preach at you. And they're rebels against the establishment....

The site webmasters think they're evil because they support Greenpeace and AIDs organizations? Give me a break! The websmasters sound stuck up... people who think "Oh, if it helps the environment, it must be evil!" or "If it's helping people with *that disease* it's evil!" Bah.

Oh, I'm going to quote from their site. They listed a bunch of quote by Bono that supposedly mark him as Un-Christian. I found these quotes to be some of THE MOST Christian things I have EVER READ!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"People expect that because I am a believer that I somehow have all the answers. And I
was saying that really I have more questions, as a result of being a believer, and the
road I am going down is a road with many side roads, and you get lost along the way
and I don't feel that I'm a very good ad for God, y'know. If ever there was a sinner there
is one here. " -Bono

(Hey, I'm in the same boat, and, well, wasn't the apostle Paul?)

"I think people understand that I'm not religious. When I talk of religion I'm talking
about the force which has cut this country (Ireland) in two. I'm not religious at all, but I
do believe in God very strongly, and I don't believe that we just kind of exploded out of
thin air, I can't believe it." -Bono

(Wonderful! He's talking against religious dogma, per se, and speaking about true faith here. I've heard many preachers speak in the same terms: that Christianity is not a "religion"- ie. set of rules that get you to God, but instead, is where God comes to us, and a matter of true faith).

Yet... the prisses who run the website think these quotes are anti-Christian? Baaaaaah!

Corrupt Christian music

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