Anime shows offensive to Chritianity?

[Aleolus]

I would have to say Ninja Scroll. I haven't even seen enough of it to try describing it, but everything I've seen has seemed like someone trying to counterfeit Christianity.

[Tommy]

The only ones I've seen or read that would follow under this category would be the following:

-Berserk
-GantZ

[Dyne]

I'm 99.9% sure that Kaligraph is being facetious in regards to his comments on Ruroken and Azumanga. XD What I think he's basically saying is that almost every anime (or medium of entertainment in general), in one way or another, goes against what Christianity as a whole teaches, whether it's disrespect to a parent, murder, lying, homosexuality, etc. Of course, this is really no different than what any other form of media, be it American or Japanese, has the capacity to portray.

'Course, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Kaligraphic. XD

I kind of figured that after his comments on Azumanga But it was interesting because he reminded me of RK and its Christian characters (I guess he never saw the show all the way through)

Course he, and it seems you, have gotten the whole point of the thread confused. What I have been asking is about anime that ATTACKS CHRISTIANITY. I don't know how I can stress that enough. Kaligraphic can be sarcastic and talk about Buddhism, but that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. But, feel free to think what you want

To me, that is the key question: did they mean to mock it, or is it stemming from a miscommunication/misunderstanding of the truth of God?

Indeed, Ashley, indeed. That is the key question to be asked. But I have seen anti Christian ideology from the Japanese culture many times, so I tend to think its mocking. I see the anti Christian sentiments all the time (usually here in the States), and its always in the back of my mind. I can "give the benefit of the doubt", but...well, maybe.

[CAAOutkast]

I'm 99.9% sure that Kaligraph is being facetious in regards to his comments on Ruroken and Azumanga. XD What I think he's basically saying is that almost every anime (or medium of entertainment in general), in one way or another, goes against what Christianity as a whole teaches, whether it's disrespect to a parent, murder, lying, homosexuality, etc. Of course, this is really no different than what any other form of media, be it American or Japanese, has the capacity to portray.

Sadly,your right. Even American Animated Shows{mostly the ones shown on adult swim} have a some,if not alot,of Anti-Christian Values. In Fact Some Even Mock Christianity.

[JasonPratt]

Sadly,your right. Even American Animated Shows{mostly the ones shown on adult swim} have a some,if not alot,of Anti-Christian Values. In Fact Some Even Mock Christianity.

Justice League (and JLU) is kind of interesting, though, in that whenever the church and/or Christianity _does_ show up, the writers (almost?) always treat it respectfully. J'onn J'onzz finding the meaning of Christmas in church and singing what appears to be a Martian hymn the next morning] before [when that guy was spitting on you]?" with "It's called turning the other cheek." Again, when J'onn opens his mind too far (in order to find Luthor once), and is overwhelmed by the selfishness of people in Metropolis, he first flees to a church--and it's interesting that even though this isn't far enough, visually the selfishness is shown to be coming from windows in buildings _around_ the church. (Not from inside it.) At the end, in the epilogue to the whole series, Amanda Waller is shown to be some kind of (penitent) Judeo-Christian; and she's the one who has the final thing to say about cosmology in the series. Indeed, she brings Terry out of his depression by appealing to the hope of God's providence. (It's a very Gandalf-to-Frodo thing to say!) Effectively, she not only has the last word cosmologically in the series, but also the last _meaningful_ word of wisdom in the series. (This is assuming we take the Epilogue to be played just as well after the real last season, of course. {g} But remember that the writers _did_ think at the time that they were going to go out with the Epilogue.)

Considering we've had Lovecraftian Elder Star God thingies and such, running around, that's a heck of a strong statement to end on. {s!}

[Ashley]

[quoteI see the anti Christian sentiments all the time (usually here in the States), and its always in the back of my mind.[/quote]

I tend to be more charitable in Japanese shows than I do American ones for precisely such a reason; America is a culture of nominal Christianity. Even if they don't believe it, most of our culture has familiarity with basic biblical principles/stories so if they mention it in a somewhat skewed light, I am more likely to believe it is being done for a rise. However, in Japan, I think it's more of a novelty and so the negativity probably isn't meant.

The other thing to consider is that Japan, as other Asian countries do, consider Christianity a "western religion" -- i.e. something that is inherent with Western thought and enterprise. Thus, a critique of Christianity might actually be a critique against Western thought/industry/values and not necessarily those of the Christian.

[Stephen]

Hellsing, anti Christian? *laughs* If anything its a modern crusade. This would be another anime/manga that falls under the writer using Christianity as a story source. Much like Greek or Roman Gods.

[beau99]

Sadly,your right. Even American Animated Shows{mostly the ones shown on adult swim} have a some,if not alot,of Anti-Christian Values. In Fact Some Even Mock Christianity.

I suppose you might be referring to Moral Orel.

It doesn't mock Christianity. It mocks people who follow faith blindly. Sadly, a lot of Christians fall into this category, and therefore they're an easy target.

[Fish and Chips]

Hellsing, anti Christian? *laughs* If anything its a modern crusade. This would be another anime/manga that falls under the writer using Christianity as a story source. Much like Greek or Roman Gods.

The Iscariots were born into the wrong era, but otherwise a grimly accurate historical portrayal of Catholic-Protestant relations, creatively licensed in the 20th century instead of the 15th. If anything, it's only at fault for being behind the times. Then again, looking at current Irish social issues, perhaps not so much.

Besides, I think the idea of a modern day Catholic-Protestant Cold War is a cool premise for a story.

[Dyne]

Hellsing, anti Christian? *laughs* If anything its a modern crusade. This would be another anime/manga that falls under the writer using Christianity as a story source. Much like Greek or Roman Gods.

Well, remember that the easiest and most common way a person can attack a Christian or Christianity is reference to the Crusades. For instance: "Christians always say that they are good. Well, I don't think what they did during the Crusades was very good!". I have seen several variations of this (not in shows, particularly, but from people themselves).

But as for Hellsing, I agree with you; I believe its just a source for story.

[Nate]

I would have to say Ninja Scroll. I haven't even seen enough of it to try describing it, but everything I've seen has seemed like someone trying to counterfeit Christianity.

I've watched Ninja Scroll countless times. I don't recall anything in it that "counterfeits" Christianity. o.O In fact, as far as I remember, there wasn't anything even remotely resembling Christianity in there. The story itself took place after Hideyoshi of the Toyotomi army died and the Tokugawa shogunate came into power. It's also very heavily based on Japanese mythology (the Blind Assassin and the Stone Golem).

[Fish and Chips]

Well, remember that the easiest and most common way a person can attack a Christian or Christianity is reference to the Crusades. For instance: "Christians always say that they are good. Well, I don't think what they did during the Crusades was very good!". I have seen several variations of this (not in shows, particularly, but from people themselves).

I've met plenty of those sorts of people, and subsequently manage to shoot them down, most of the time.

[rocklobster]

Just ask them about some of the people who weren't Christian who also killed people. I won't name names, I'm sure you all know who I mean.

[Fish and Chips]

Just ask them about some of the people who weren't Christian who also killed people. I won't name names, I'm sure you all know who I mean.

I've actually read statistics somewhere that Atheists in the 20th Century killed more than all the religious wars of Europe combined.

[RedMage]

Stalin, anyone?

[Jessi Ray]

This is a very interesting topic indeed.

Now, I havn't viewed anything that attacks Cristianity in particular I do think a lot of anime take basis on false religion. I think watching these things are ok as long as their not satanic, and you keep in mind your own views.

Now about the character in "Gost Stories" I havn't seen this anime, but I hear that the English dubb is vastly different from the original. Thus, the Americans added this stareotype not the Japanese.

Also, I can't honestly say that these stareotypes arn't with out fuel. I, living in a VERY hevy baptist town have had legalism shoved down my throat all of my life. I got told I was going to hell for wearing a black tee-shirt. Seriously. Also they beleaved that:

Dancing is a sin
Chewing gum is a sin
You can't listen to any music that is not Christian
Girls can not wear pants or shorts. Skirts and dresses only.

Yet, they follow all of these pointless rules, but most of the kids I grew up with there have really disobayed alot of what the bible says. And it's almost as if the older members bealeved that they could get to heaven by good works.

I'm a Chiristain don't get me wrong but I hate the way some of the other Christains reposent us.

So are they doing it or are a lot of Chirstains just fueling the stareotype?

[Ashley]

Hopefully I can restore your faith in Baptists...I am one, and I don't believe ANY of those things are wrong.

[RedMage]

Ditto that. Please don't stereotype Baptists.

[Jessi Ray]

I'm not stareotyping baptist. My dad's a baptist and so is my best friend.

I my self am an non-donominational(sp)

I'm just saying that some Christians do stuff like that and make the whole religion look bad. I know very well that not all baptist are legalist also. I was just using my experiance with a particular baptist church as an example.

[Ashley]

Oh, I completely understand. Sorry, I guess I should have made it clearer that I wasn't offended.

[Aleolus]

I've watched Ninja Scroll countless times. I don't recall anything in it that "counterfeits" Christianity. o.O In fact, as far as I remember, there wasn't anything even remotely resembling Christianity in there. The story itself took place after Hideyoshi of the Toyotomi army died and the Tokugawa shogunate came into power. It's also very heavily based on Japanese mythology (the Blind Assassin and the Stone Golem).

Well, maybe it was mislabled (it was a fansub that was given to me after all), but what I remember, was that there was a savior coming to save the world, who came from the gods. But, if anything were to happen that would stop him from saving the world, he would instead become a demon and destroy everything. Something along those lines, it's been a long time since I started it, and decided I didn't need to see it.

[Fish and Chips]

death note...in the way shinigamis do not exist

We call those fantasy elements. Shinigami obviously don't exist. The whole premise of the Manga is a "What if?" scenario.

hellsing...yeah pretty obvious

A recent discussion in the chat promps me to ask "Obvious? How so?"

full metal alchemist---human transmutation...the theory that science is greater than God

Actually, the series more often than not seems to point to the failings of science. Human transmutation doesn't work, science cannot attain godhood or bring people back from the dead, etc.

Playing the Devil's advocate, if you don't mind.

[ilikegir33]

How about Azumanga Daioh? It pretty clearly shows pagan rituals, fortune telling, and mood magic. Also enchantment of items for luck. As such it is completely out of line with Christian beliefs and could poison a believer's mind with sin.

It's in the context of Japanese culture! But I think that some shows are blatantly anti-Christian. Pani Poni Dash is borderline. It's not anti-Christian but it does feature occult magic in Episode 8.

[AsianBlossom]

Whoa, thanks for telling me that about Dash...I wouldn't have known that from seeing only part of a very early episode.

And that's also something I'm wondering about, the whole magic issue: what is acceptable in fiction and what isn't? I mean, my family is against Harry Potter, just so you can get an idea as to where I stand, and yet Lord of the Rings and Narnia are okay. I can see a difference between the two.

But what about in anime? How about the magical girl anime? Are those all right or are they crossing any boundaries in the way that HP does? I have been struggling with this issue for a long while, and any help at all would be appreciated.

[Fish and Chips]

Personally, it's clear in my mind what is fictitious and what isn't. The only beef I have with magic in any work of fiction is when it has no boundaries, borderlines, or limits (say, a series wherein all problems can be solved by magic, because it is infinitely malleable, never runs out, etc.), in which case it's little more than an overused plot device.

[Rocketshipper]

Well, maybe it was mislabled (it was a fansub that was given to me after all), but what I remember, was that there was a savior coming to save the world, who came from the gods. But, if anything were to happen that would stop him from saving the world, he would instead become a demon and destroy everything.

That's the plot to Ninja Ressurection, not Ninja Scroll. They are totally unrelated.

[Nate]

And that's also something I'm wondering about, the whole magic issue: what is acceptable in fiction and what isn't? I mean, my family is against Harry Potter, just so you can get an idea as to where I stand, and yet Lord of the Rings and Narnia are okay. I can see a difference between the two.

But what about in anime? How about the magical girl anime? Are those all right or are they crossing any boundaries in the way that HP does? I have been struggling with this issue for a long while, and any help at all would be appreciated.

I play D&D, enjoy Harry Potter, and like magical girl anime as well as fantasy stuff like Slayers and Lodoss War. To me, I don't mind because it is all fictional magic. However, I know it bothers some people, and that is okay too, some people don't like it. We are all different.

So roundabout way of saying it is, there is no ultimate answer. You have to pray, and listen to your heart. If you feel convicted by watching/reading Harry Potter, don't read it. If you don't feel convicted, you're probably okay. Just pray a lot, ask God, and He won't lead you wrong. But if you're looking for a definitive yes or no answer, sorry, but like I said, everyone's convictions are different, so there is no real concrete answer.

[termyt]

Magic is forbidden in the Bible, but we should take a deeper look to find out what that means. It is better to reason through and follow the intent of the law than blindly follow its letter. Magic of the type typically portrayed in fiction does not exist in our world. If it does, it is the result of technology or nature that we simply do not yet understand.

In the Bible, God is specifically speaking out against divination, hard astrology (I say hard to differentiate real astrology from fortune cookies and the stuff written the newspaper every day) – in other words, attempts to acquire knowledge that is not ours to know. Sorcerers and witches are also practitioners of spirituality and religions not focused on God, so, they should be avoided.

All that is said to frame the “it’s OK if it’s fictionâ€

[AsianBlossom]

Thanks everyone; while I'm most definitely NOT going to run out and practice magic or seek advice from fortune-tellers and stuff after reading anything like that, I'm just cautious about it because I can't stand it when I like something and one of my parents criticizes it whenever I talk about it or am seen watching/reading it. Besides my conscience, that's pretty much what helps (or hinders me) from making certain decisions in terms of entertainment.

And the priest I went to for spiritual direction told me that HP in itself is dangerous only because it gives witchcraft and the occult a little too much attention, and puts it in the spotlight of good. I personally also think it's dangerous because you've got those nutty people who run around mixing reality with fantasy thinking that the two worlds must co-exist or something.

So, to get right to the point, the heart of my problem is this: I fully understand that magic in fiction is totally not real and should not be sought out in reality, as it is an abomination to God. It's just that if I start looking into enjoying fantasy series in manga and anime, the particular parent mentioned above may start getting picky about my choices, even though they told me recently that they trust my judgment.

What's a girl in this kind of situation to do, anyways?

And another question of mine is this: is there really a difference between good (white) magic and dark (black) magic? And can any good main character lawfully use the former? I guess this is sort of a question that branches off the one I mentioned earlier in this thread. (it's all about representation and the author's own creativity, huh? Just my guess.)

(Oh, and even reading the horoscopes in the daily newspapers and online is a sin, even if it's not "hard" astrology...and on a final side note, have you ever heard of Scripture Cookies? They're like fortune cookies, but with a scripture inside each one )

[MasterDias]

I guess it's time again for the old "magic in anime/books/games" topic that pops up once a year or so...

And the priest I went to for spiritual direction told me that HP in itself is dangerous only because it gives witchcraft and the occult a little too much attention, and puts it in the spotlight of good. I personally also think it's dangerous because you've got those nutty people who run around mixing reality with fantasy thinking that the two worlds must co-exist or something.

Keep in mind that there are always going to be weirdos and disturbingly obsessive people in any particular group or demographic. But, I will say that the number of people who got involved in the occult because they thought that they could shoot fireballs or throw force lightning or whatever is very, very, very low; if any did at all... and such people would have gotton in trouble eventually anyway. Stuff like divination is somewhat more of a concern, although it probably depends on how it is handled. 98% of the magic in the Harry Potter series has absolutely nothing to do with actual witchcraft. Christian groups tend to blow this far out of proportion.

The way I see it, I have basically no problems with magic in fiction usually, as, like termyt said, different worlds will have different rules and laws than our own.