The Bible in public school

[bakura_fan]

On the cover of Time magazine it said "Why we should teach the Bible in public school. (But very, very carefully)"

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1601845,00.html

this is the article if you want to read it. I was just wondering what you though about it. From what I read, I think that it will give Christians a better opportunity to reach out to the non-believers. According to the article, a few athiests wanted to take the class so they'd be able to have an intelligent conversation with their Christian friends.

Note to mods: If there is any reason, be it by my posting this, or by others comments, please lock this thread. I don't want this to start an argument. Just a discussion.

also, i apologize if anyoe else has started this same topic. I searched and couldn't find anything.

[rsnumber2]

Good find!

On the cover of Time magazine it said "Why we should teach the Bible in public school. (But very, very carefully)"

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1601845,00.html

this is the article if you want to read it. I was just wondering what you though about it. From what I read, I think that it will give Christians a better opportunity to reach out to the non-believers. According to the article, a few athiests wanted to take the class so they'd be able to have an intelligent conversation with their Christian friends.

Note to mods: If there is any reason, be it by my posting this, or by others comments, please lock this thread. I don't want this to start an argument. Just a discussion.

also, i apologize if anyoe else has started this same topic. I searched and couldn't find anything.

I think it should be taught like that in schools. I learned a little about other religions while in college, and frankly, I would have liked to learn more. The key is that one should hopefully have a strong base on which to start. If (in the classroom) everyone keeps emotions down, we can learn even more. What a better way to witness, than to have a calm, well informed conversation about the Bible to someone that would have a clue what you're talking about? And the flip side, if/when they require us to learn about other religions, it allows us to approach the people we wish to witness to, with respect and understanding about their beliefs. Instead of coming off as brash and "Bible beating", we can lovingly reveal what we believe, while drawing parallels to their faith, making it easier for them to grasp the concepts.

On a side note, the article shows what I have thought for years: The thought of late seems to be: I'm Christian. Why? 'Cause I was born in America.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

This was a wonderful article. Its rare that one keeps my attention for as long.

[bakura_fan]

I bought the magazine so I could look at it everyonce in awhile when not online. I thought it was an intersting article.

Edit: I just checked the online article. doesn't say anything about the pictures in the magazine so I'll write them up for you. *and if I missed em, oops. ^^,*

THE BIBLE IN POP CULTURE:

Babel: In the Bible, survivors of the Great Flood displeased God when they tried to build a tower to heaven, and he gave each one a different language so that they could no longer understand one another. The people in the four different cultures portrayed in the Oscar-nominated film share a modern-day version of undue pride and the inability to communicate.

Superman: Jor-el. Did you know the el means God in biblical Hebrew? The comic about the all powerful Kryptonian's son, whose arrival on Earth coincides with a major astronomical event and is raised among men, was a fun, reductivist postwar Jesus gloss. The 2006 movie version in this saga about a man with supernatural powers who save humanity hit the Jesus comparisons harder than its predecessors did.

The Da vinci code: There are people who regard Dan Brown's story about jesus and mary Magdalene as Gospel. But read the Gospels, and you will know it plays off later nonbiblical sources.

The chronicals of narnia: C.S. Lewis was a famous Christian popularizer. Aslan the Lion was Jesus. Grab your New Testament and take it from there.

Left Behind series: Supposedly a fictionalization of events in the predicted book of Revelation, but it's actually based on interpretation of that text. Is it the right one?

Spamalot: The hit broadway musical was inspired by the 1975 film Monty Python and the Holy Grail, a satirical rendering of King arthur and his knights' search for the cup Christ used at the Last Supper. John Cleese makes a tape appearance as the voice of God.

One Tree Hill: Their battles may play out in calculus class or at the junior prom, but sibling rivalry between half brothers Lucas and Nathon on this CW teen drama echo the birthright struggle of Cain and able.

The Matrix: You almost have to watch the trilogy with scripture in hand to catch all the biblical references in the Wachoskis' retelling of the resurrection, with keanu reeves as you-know-who. Of course, then you would have to start in on nearly as important secular sources.

Pulp Fiction: Samuel L. Jackson's character Jules invokes Ezekiel before killing people; "You will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you." But he undergoes a personal crisis framed in the same language. Is he the "righteous man" Ezekiel lauds? The "shepherd" who helps the weak? He fears that instead he serves what Ezekiel calls "the tyranny of evil men." When he spares another potential victim, he says, "I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd." The Bible is real for him.

[Warrior4Christ]

I read some of the article. But I think having at least a basic knowledge of the major world religions is useful in understanding and dealing with people around the world (and perhaps different cultures), if not for the reason of determining the best way to witness to them.

[Stephen]

LOL @ Someone taking a serious view for or against Christianity from Jules char in Pulp Fiction. I hate it when people try to find Christianity in every modern movie. The American culture has a ton of Christian elements sprinkled on it. It will pop up now and then. Things like the Matrix. Name a religion that did not have some form of influence or reference made to it in that film. Teaching the Bible is one thing, claiming directors had Christian intentions because they mentioned the Bible or say God is quite another. And for the record, I want to write this everytime I ban someone.

"You will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you"

[Technomancer]

On the cover of Time magazine it said "Why we should teach the Bible in public school. (But very, very carefully)"

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1601845,00.html

this is the article if you want to read it. I was just wondering what you though about it.

I think that it's a good idea]
From what I read, I think that it will give Christians a better opportunity to reach out to the non-believers.
[/quote]

What do you mean by 'reach out'? And is that the point of the class? The object is to educate people regarding the literature of the bible, its history and its influence on culture. It is not meant to be a bible study. And to be blunt, a good many Christians could do with an education on this topic, never mind the atheists.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I think Bakurafan was referring to how it could potentially create situations to share belief outside the classroom. And indeed ours is a generation of biblical illiterates.

[Raiden no Kishi]

The Bible and the beliefs it teaches are part of our nation's history. It would be a travesty for them NOT to be taught about in schools.

.rai//

[Cap'n Nick]

This article brings to light a difficulty brewing within public education since its inception: that it can never be truly neutral. The purpose of the Bible class is to equip students to deal with the culture they live in, i.e. to be good citizens. But, who defines "good?" This is a question that only religion can answer.

This hasn't stopped our governments from answering it. Any educational system will have values and priorities - otherwise there is no reason to educate. But, it's schizophrenic to believe that this state religion is not a religion in and of itself.

It is my personal hope that the increasing pluralization of our society will bring people to realize the myth of religious neutrality, thus opening the door for overt value statements to make their way back into public life. Barring that, however, I would be very happy with a public education system that does more to allow students to become religious people (even if their religion is no religion) rather than falling into de facto atheism or restricting itself to a vastly unsatisfying lowest common denominator.

[Slater]

I dunno about this one... well, for one it seems that somewhere along the line between me and Time's servers it's getting a little jammed up... the connection keeps freezing when the article is half-loaded or the connection resets (which causes Firefox to have a little hissy-fit and unload the whole page)...

For one, I'm all for making Bible teachings available in schools... it would definitly open the door for a lot of Christian outreach... however we have to consider a big part of Western psychology/ethics/whatever today... The big "E" word...

Equality.

If Bible is taught in school, why shouldn't Islam also be provided? Or Scientology, or Norse Mythology, or any of the other world religions? It would be considered closed-minded in today's society to not allow or enforce that. We would be seen as trying to "force" religion on the masses while trying to take away everyone else' voice.

So if this came to pass, it would seem that one door opened for Christ would open one equally wide for the devil...

So, my idea on the matter... hmm... It's tricky, real tricky... But were it provided, you'd see me taking that class regardless.

[termyt]

Christians have not always been the best bearers of the Gospel, which leads to much of the problem.

It's a shame that the Bible has become unmentionable in many circles. It is the foundation for our society, so it is only reasonable that it be a part of any curriculum. To ignore it is foolishness.

Interpretation of the scriptures should be left to faith, but the teaching of the ideas is an excellent idea.

[Slater]

Christians haven't been the best, that's true... but they haven't been the worst either (well... maybe... there are some psychos... *thinks of that episode of "Trading Spaces"*...)

I remember having a convo in the CAA chatroom (like a year or so ago) with someone taking a college religion course... Seems that modern theology sees Christianity as the source of all problems in the world >_>

Well, what do you expect, an easy battle, right? lol...

Like I said, tricky tricky...

[mitsuki lover]

Back when I was I Junior at West Anchorage High one of the electives I took was
The Bible As Literature.

[Radical Dreamer]

I think it's a great idea. It's good that people are starting to realize that learning about other religions is not a bad thing, but a good thing. I go to a Christian school and take an apologetics course, which includes learning about other religions and what they believe. It's certainly helpful in becoming less ignorant about such matters, not to mention defending myself competently in a discussion with someone who isn't a Christian. Besides, considering the importance of the Bible in history, I'd say learning about it, whether you're a Christian or not, is almost a requirement in today's society.

The only issue I saw was with what the Fundamentalist pastor John Hagee mentioned against the idea of public schools teaching the Bible:

"Fundamentalist pastor John Hagee has complained that The Bible and Its Influence, a curriculum Kendrick uses in her class, could 'greatly damage' youth too callow to 'decipher' what he called its misrepresentations of Scripture. He cited its observation that contrary to Christianity, 'other origin stories tell of ... gods who themselves are created.' Hagee thundered that this could convince a student that polytheism is as valid as monotheism."

He's obviously overlooking the part where polytheism is spoken against, since, in the OT, most or all of the polytheistic places and people spoken of are either destroyed or punished in one way or another. XD I agree with Chuck Colson's reply in the article, though:

"But evangelical pundit Chuck Colson favors Bible-literacy courses. 'Would I prefer a more explicitly biblical Christian teaching?' he asks. 'Of course. But you can't do that in public education. What you can do is introduce the Bible so that people are aware of its impact on people and in history and then let God speak through it as he will.'"

It's planting a seed, and that's an excellent start.

[bakura_fan]

I think Bakurafan was referring to how it could potentially create situations to share belief outside the classroom. And indeed ours is a generation of biblical illiterates.

yup. that's pretty much what I meant. Also, as radical dreamer put it. It's the planting of the seed. Anyone who decides to willingly read the Bible will have a bit of it still in their mind even if the read it and think "this is complete crap!"

I never went to High school so I really don't know the situation with courses and what not (was homeschooled through tenth grade then went straight to college). >_> So I do apologize if I seem a bit naive on the subject.

[Debitt]

I saw this article and it made me happy, even after I removed any religious bias from my viewpoint.

It's really sad that I have to explain Biblical allusions to college seniors because they've shut the Bible out of their lives. So many major works of literature integrate the Bible into their imagery and symbolism, and being unable to identify the significance of that in a book could hinder someone's understanding of a work. People need to stop having a knee-jerk reaction to the Bible - yes, it's a holy book, and yes I try to base my day to day walk off of what it teaches, but even if you choose not to believe the same as I do, it's still a moving work of literature and the book that a chunk of our culture is built around.

So share the love.

[Cognitive Gear]

I think that this is a step in the correct direction. To be honest, I feel that the major religions of the world should all be taught in school. While I don't want the class to teach "Why X religion is wrong" or "Scientific fallacies in Holy Books", I do think that such a class would be beneficial to our culture not only for literary or historical purposes, but also for our society's sake. It would help many ignorant people come to an understanding of things they are prejudiced against.

Perhaps this line of thought is a bit idealistic, but I do believe that our nation theoretically promotes equality. While the Bible is more important to our direct history, it would be considered close-minded to not teach the other major religions of the world alongside it. (As Slater mentioned earlier)

[Technomancer]

IIf Bible is taught in school, why shouldn't Islam also be provided? Or Scientology, or Norse Mythology, or any of the other world religions?

They should be. In fact, a class in comparitive religion was a requirement for graduation at my old high school. I think that given the importance of religion in understanding other countries and societies, a high school would be remiss in not offering such a course.

[Debitt]

I think that this is a step in the correct direction. To be honest, I feel that the major religions of the world should all be taught in school. While I don't want the class to teach "Why X religion is wrong" or "Scientific fallacies in Holy Books", I do think that such a class would be beneficial to our culture not only for literary or historical purposes, but also for our society's sake. It would help many ignorant people come to an understanding of things they are prejudiced against.

Perhaps this line of thought is a bit idealistic, but I do believe that our nation theoretically promotes equality. While the Bible is more important to our direct history, it would be considered close-minded to not teach the other major religions of the world alongside it. (As Slater mentioned earlier)

I highly approve of your sort of idealism. I was actually talking to my mom about this earlier and I said "if people said 'If you can teach the Bible, then you can teach the Koran too', I would tell them 'absolutely'" :3

[Raiden no Kishi]

I highly approve of your sort of idealism. I was actually talking to my mom about this earlier and I said "if people said 'If you can teach the Bible, then you can teach the Koran too', I would tell them 'absolutely'" :3

And may I add to this line of thought? Here's the thing: if the Bible is the Truth [and I believe it is], then Christians shouldn't be afraid to have it out there with other "holy books". The Truth will ultimately win. Some guy named Saul or Paul or something had this cool idea about not being ashamed of the Gospel and all that, IIRC. ^_^ Ergo, I wouldn't mind the Bible being taught in a comparative religion class.

God's Word FTW.

.rai//

[ashfire]

I may be a very old to tell this. I started first grade in 1961 in North Carolina which would be considered being in the Bible Belt of America.
I can remember our teacher in public school reading to us from the Bible and we would have prayer before we went to lunch. My family left North Carolina in 1963 and moved to the Washington DC area. Now public school changed. No Bible readings or prayer except when John F Kennedy was killed.
Religious Holidays were celebrated in school all the way up to 1973 when I graduated from high school. In high school I can remember there were students in Bible groups and the study of the Bible in a class I took on mythology. Guess it took a while for the schools to take anything involving religion out after I left school.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I think that this is a step in the correct direction. To be honest, I feel that the major religions of the world should all be taught in school. While I don't want the class to teach "Why X religion is wrong" or "Scientific fallacies in Holy Books", I do think that such a class would be beneficial to our culture not only for literary or historical purposes, but also for our society's sake. It would help many ignorant people come to an understanding of things they are prejudiced against.

I honestly prefer to have more Muslims around me, (And believe me, they will do their best to try to convert you; I live with one.) than some prejudiced atheists around me; belittling me and trying to convert me.

At least then we won't do retarded things in the cafeteria.

[Etoh*the*Greato]

You know, there is a group of people (I have no idea who you are, but I find them every time I say this) that will think I'm really strange saying this, but I'm very glad we as Christians have lost the public eye. The Church is never so weak as when we're on top. We atrophy. We don't push, we aren't pushed, we refuse to test our faith. You know? The second we're in danger, we're on our toes, we're sharp, we're prepared. We're more the city on the hill when we're surrounded by enemies that when we're ruling the country.

Also, Comparative Religions study ftw. It was one of my nerdy hobbies in highschool.

[mitsuki lover]

I may be a very old to tell this. I started first grade in 1961 in North Carolina which would be considered being in the Bible Belt of America.
I can remember our teacher in public school reading to us from the Bible and we would have prayer before we went to lunch. My family left North Carolina in 1963 and moved to the Washington DC area. Now public school changed. No Bible readings or prayer except when John F Kennedy was killed.
Religious Holidays were celebrated in school all the way up to 1973 when I graduated from high school. In high school I can remember there were students in Bible groups and the study of the Bible in a class I took on mythology. Guess it took a while for the schools to take anything involving religion out after I left school.

Wow!Ashfire you're even older than me!
I remember when we lived in Minnesota there wasn't much difference between the local Public School and the Christian School.

[Lady Macbeth]

I'm for the idea. In addition to a lot of the reasons stated above (understanding cultural impact, promoting reasonable discussion, etc) I also think that it would encourage deeper thinking about life and individual goals than our country currently promotes. There is far too much commercialism and shallow thinking in the United States for my tastes. Even if learning the Bible doesn't change a student's opinion about Christianity or religious beliefs one way or another, it may promote deeper thought about their life in general.

[Kat Walker]

It is a wonderful idea in theory, if properly executed. Of course, there will probably be quite a bit of red tape to jump through and it all depends on the competency and neutrality of the instructor.

If nothing else, these kinds of classes should be available as electives. Religion class could technically be considered a part of social studies, sociology, and history. It is most certainly a big issue in current events - not only in America either, and not just regarding Christianity. If it's considered important to learn about defunct ancient religions like Greek mythology in literature class, then how much more imperative is it to be up to speed with the religious influences of our own time?

And as for comparative religions - I'm all for it. On the top of my list would be a study of the Koran. If there is only one religion we really need to know about in our day and age, it is Islam. I've already begun reading up on its history and doctrine from a secular textbook. Quite interesting.

I honestly wouldn't worry about any of this putting Christianity in danger. Yes, learning about false religions might tempt others to follow them, but this is no reason to fear religious literacy. The very opposite could be achieved as well, and people with ignorant or negative views of Christianity might open their eyes to the truth. The church flourishes when it is persecuted, and anything that can make Christians stronger in faith and more educated can't be a bad thing.

[mitsuki lover]

There's basically no problem as long as the teacher doesn't use the class to
proselytize his or her particuliar brand of Christiantiy.As long as they adhere to
the separation of Church and State it's ok,but the minute they use the class for
ulterior reasons then you can be sure it would be canceled.

[USSRGirl]

Well, my highschool offered a pretty good Bible as literature class which I took. The teacher was pretty good, I learned a few historical details that I didn't already know. But then again this was a fairly conservative homeschool with a Christian teacher. Teaching the Bible in school could be a door opening for atheist teachers with an axe to grind "debunking" the Bible as false to impressionable school kids who don't necessarily come from a Christian background. Also, you will end up get his or her spin on it (most likely liberal, all accepting spin).

I think the best way to go about this is to treat the Bible purely as historical and literary document and not bring religious interpretations into the classroom. This way, kids will get the straight facts. They'll read it for themselves, and if they like what they read, they'll begin seeking Christ on their own. My Bible as lit class had a 'no debate' policy (psssh... yeah that lasted long...) to keep classroom discussions on a purely literary level. I think this works best. If students want to go on to learn different doctrinal interpretations they can do it at Seminary.

[Technomancer]

I think the best way to go about this is to treat the Bible purely as historical and literary document and not bring religious interpretations into the classroom.

And that would actually still be open to some debate. There are obviously serious problems when it comes to the acceptance of the historicity of much of the bible. Even from a literary perspective, there would plenty of people who would not accept much modern scholarship on the nature of the Bible's authorship. For example, consider the following topics:

The validity of the documentary hypothesis
Moses' alleged authorship of the Torah
The influence of the Enuma Elish and other pre-Hebrew mythologies
The question of Q
The deuterocanonical texts.

These would no doubt be fairly contentious issues even on this board, let alone in a public school. It's easy to say that one wishes to teach kids 'the facts', but unfortunately even the teaching of subjects where there is little scholarly or scientific debate can be politically problematic.