Okay...this is enough. (Possible mini rant)

[ChristianKitsune]

Okay... This isn't directed at anyone in particular, because frankly, there are many guilty parties...

Now, I am not here to be mean, or even to yell at anyone...it's just something I have noticed, and MANY are concerned about.

Mods, I am sorry if this sounds rude, it's not my intention. I just know a lot of artists aren't getting the credit they deserve, and it's really sad to me.

I am not a mod, and these aren't Rules, just mannerisms that many artists consider.

This is concerning the art gallery. And since there was a "TO ALL NOOBS" thread...this is for all my fellow artists, and it's just some mannerisms that many artists feel are important here on CAA.

1. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE for the love of all the art in the world.. only post ONE Picture in the gallery, until it is out of view. Please guys, there MANY artists here, and EVERYONE deserves to have an equal share of display time. I am sick to death of seeing some really awesome art work get posted, and not an hour later it has been bumped all they way back to out of view by the same person, spamming the thread. It's unfair, and not very considerate to the other artists. I, have kept myself in check. This isn't Deviant Art. This is CAA and you can only see 5 pics in the thumbnails. After this...it's not always easy for many people to see anything... Unless it' catches their eye on a random visit to the gallery.

2. If you must post art...make it polished, or at least neat enough to see. This is the Spotlight gallery. I am not saying you have to be the best artist in the world, but if you are going to post a sketch, at least make it dark enough and clear enough to see. Again, this isn DA, and there is no "scraps" feature. In fact, why not link us to the scrap?

3. This has to do with number one a bit. If you have steps to your artwork taht you wish to share with us, thats great! But please... post it all in the same thread. We would love to see the progress of it there! Not in 5 seperate threads..

4. Again, please be considerate of your fellow CAA artists. Many of us don't just Dabble in art, we actually want to take it on to our carreers, and we take it very seriously.

Thanks everyone! I am sorry if I sounded harsh... but this is how a lot of members feel.

[macguy]

Rule #1: Post in the correct area.

Rule #2: Follow rule #1

I'm sure it would help a lot of people who are experience the same on the art galleries. Let's hope that people listen though...

[Raiden no Kishi]

There's no art discussion forum liked there used to be [ : : ahem : : ], so this is the correct area.

That said, CK has some good points. A thought: perhaps some people don't know how to clean up and scan in their pictures properly? It might be a good subject for a tutorial if it's that important to you . . .

.rai//

[Destroyer2000]

McGuy, I hardly think it necessary for you to be quoting rules to a member who has been here far longer than you. That in and of itself was rude.

[ChristianKitsune]

O_o was Macguy talking to me? I thought he was talking about posting art where it should...Like to post animesque pics in the Non Anime area.... isn't good?

There are many tutorials about cleaning up sketches, especially cleaning up line art. I hardly feel it's necassary for me to do a new one, but if you guys think I should...

[Radical Dreamer]

Here, here. I've noticed the same things that Kitchan has, and it is kind of sad when you've worked really hard on a piece that you want your fellow CAAers to see, and then, thirty minutes later, you watch it get bumped out of the featured gallery pics by doodles and things of the sort.

One suggestion I would make is that if you have more than one related picture that you want to post in the gallery, then do one of two things: post one picture to be viewed in the gallery and link the rest of the pictures to your Photobucket/Imageshack account as such, OR post one picture to the gallery and attach the other pictures to subsequent posts, like this.

Anyways, I agree with Kitchan 100%! Please be considerate of your fellow CAA artists!

[ChristianKitsune]

Here, here. I've noticed the same things that Kitchan has, and it is kind of sad when you've worked really hard on a piece that you want your fellow CAAers to see, and then, thirty minutes later, you watch it get bumped out of the featured gallery pics by doodles and things of the sort.

One suggestion I would make is that if you have more than one related picture that you want to post in the gallery, then do one of two things: post one picture to be viewed in the gallery and link the rest of the pictures to your Photobucket/Imageshack account as such, OR post one picture to the gallery and attach the other pictures to subsequent posts, like this.

Anyways, I agree with Kitchan 100%! Please be considerate of your fellow CAA artists!

WHOO! thanks for showin' how it's done, Raddie-chan!! :3

I shoudl have thought of that... XD

Thanks for the support!!

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

CK, that has to be the most polite rant I've ever heard! You make a very good point too.

[ChristianKitsune]

hahah, well I didn't want to come across as a Jerk... I am sorry if I did XD;

[Lady Macbeth]

I don't think it was offensive or rude in any way, so to me you didn't come off as a jerk.

These are good guidelines that I like to see practiced on any online gallery where the most recent works are displayed. I can understand doing art dumps - I've done some myself in the past - but I try to limit it to periods when there's nothing being uploaded, like in the wee hours of the morning. Also, it is possible to break up art dumps into smaller batches to space them out over a few days, if you really suddenly have a lot of work done.

[Quote=Raiden no Kishi]That said, CK has some good points. A thought: perhaps some people don't know how to clean up and scan in their pictures properly? It might be a good subject for a tutorial if it's that important to you . . .[/quote]

Are there any tutorials existing for this on CAA? I haven't looked in some time because I haven't had anything to upload here. If not, I could do one up that would cover some of the more basic programs available for scanning and cleaning artwork. If there's anything I'm more than happy to contribute to, it's helping people clean up their art so that it's more presentable for web viewing.

[ChristianKitsune]

There is a really good inking tutorial in the tutorial section.. ^^;

See, here is the thing about posting a lot of art..or having the pieces to do so:

If you don't post all your artwork at once, more people will see it! I mean think about it. If you post all your work at once, that's it until you finish your next piece, you won't get many comments. I find that spacing out the submissions also makes it more enjoyable because I have things to look foward too! ^^

[macguy]

O_o was Macguy talking to me? I thought he was talking about posting art where it should...Like to post animesque pics in the Non Anime area.... isn't good?

Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry for confusing anyone

[Mangafanatic]

Hey guys,

I've been looking at this thread and, after talking with the other staffers, I've decided I should say something.

When I'm perfectly honest-- I don't even know what to do with this. We have a comment section for a reason: so members can tell us what they want to change about the site. We take those recommendation seriously, discuss them, and respond accordingly. After having been given this suggestion, we, after a lot of discussion, decided that (for now) it was simply unfair to ask member NOT to post in the art area. I want to believe that you guys respect our experience on the site to make decision that are best for everyone-- both our elite artists and our newer members. While I know that many of you who posted here may not have been aware that this change suggestion had been submitted, the truth is that these kinds of suggestions should be in the comments section of the site anyways, and their implementation is up to those who have been on the site for years and know how to keep it functioning at its best. [Note: And when I say this, I'm not talking about myself. I'm a n00b when compared to Ash, Steve, Gypsy, UC, and Mith, and I try to yield to their experienced opinions when considering these issues.]

Granted, I do understand your frustrations. When I have some down-time, I enjoy making wallpaper and posting them here at CAA. After putting a lot of time into a wall, it can be frustrating to have it knocked down the queue by six papers all by the same person. However, when I'm tempted to be angered by those feelings, I just remember: I was that kid once and there were people like Ashley and Myrrhlynn who were infinitely more talented than I who didn't show irritation that my simple pieces were bogging down the gallery. Instead, they encouraged me, taught me, and never gave me even a moment of irritated reaction. That is the attitude that I want to typify the whole site-- the gallery being no exception. I want the gallery to be a place where we think of others needs more highly than our own. One truth that we must all remember is that we do not know what kind of background lies behind the user names we encounter on this site. It may just be that kid who's posts 29 images in the 4 minutes and begs for comments lives in a home where no one praises him. No one tells him he has potential. No one bothers to give him a moment's consideration-- and those 29 images are 29 cries not for artist's appreciation but for human appreciation. He just wants someone somewhere to make him think that he's got something to offer. And giving those kinds of people that validation rates much more highly on my list of priorities than the exposure and critiquing of any member's art (as important as the improvement of our artists is to all the staff.)

In short, CAA allows both our more and our less talented members to have equal oppotunity to post art. All who have commented here are just as free to post 36 images as those who may be less talented who post more frequently. Furthermore, we do not prohibit the "casual" artist from posting "casual" art here, nor would I ever want anyone to be afraid to post on CAA for fear of what others will think. I know that I, for instance, once posted a sketch of mine here on CAA. It was a big step for me, since I'm not very skilled, but I knew that everyone on CAA was happy for me to post whatever I wanted (that wasn't obscene), whenever I wanted, however often I wanted.

Basically, while I believe that everyone in this thread was well meaning, we're dedicated to making CAA a comfortable and encouraging place for all our members. At this point, that means that we allow everyone to post freely in the galleries, and I'd prefer that we didn't limit that freedom--even if it's only with power of peer pressure.

Again, I hope I don't come across as too harsh, because I KNOW that you guys are well meaning and would never intentionally make someone feel bad, but I just felt that the staff should make a statement about how we feel about the issue. Thanks for listening to me and being understanding. I love you guys.

[Nate]

I agree with you to a point, Osaka, but the problem here is this. The "Latest Images" on the forums page only displays the last five pictures.

So what we have here is a problem where someone posts a picture, and then five minutes later someone comes in and posts ten pictures at once. That person's art only got displayed on the forum page for five minutes, and is now buried under a sea of this ONE person's work. Not a lot of people use the "Get New" feature, and I'd venture to say even fewer actually go into the galleries just to see what new artworks are up.

To sum it up, you said you posted a sketch here, which was a big step for you. Let's assume that my situation occurred, where someone came in a couple of minutes after you posted your sketch and put in seven pieces of art. Now your sketch is not as visible, so now at the end of the day you have three views of your thread and zero comments. After you got up the courage to post.

Wouldn't that make you feel disappointed, or upset? Wouldn't you want people to see your artwork instead of having it be pushed off into internet limbo?

I'm not saying this is something you mods HAVE to do. You run CAA, and I don't. But when you allow people to post so much art that they push other members out of the way, effectively bullying them, it just seems to be the opposite of what you want to promote. I mean, what if say, someone posts a piece of art I hate and so out of spite I decide to post a bunch of sketches of mine just so no one can see it? That's the potential for abuse the current system has.

Again, it's your board, and your decisions, but I really don't see why you can't have a rule that members can only post two or three pictures a day...limiting the number of picture postings would PROMOTE artists on CAA, rather than inhibiting them (which seems to be your logic for not having this rule).

[The Doctor]

I'm going to state something here, but I'm not taking sides.

When I bump into problems like this, I ask myself "What would Robert Rodriguez do?" since he is an artist I have alot of respect for.

Answer? He'd go do his own thing.

You have to realize that, as nice as our mods are, CAA reaches a HUGE demographic of ages 12- 40 years old. As a result, the mods sit up at the top doing a balancing act of doing what is Godly and right, and making sure to keep everyone here happy. They're very limited to what they can change, because any changes they make are bound to make some happy, yet tick off others. As a result, you'll probably see few changes unless it's a question of Biblical principles or technical issues. That's not to say our mods are heartless or lazy or don't care, it's just their experience and how things are.

So, if you're REALLY passionate about this I'd recommend listening to Rodriguez.
When he found out about how the big Hollywood studios like to micro-manage Directors, Rodriguez said: "I'm from Texas. When someone tells me how to ride my horse, I say I'm going to my own ranch. Besides, you guys are riding your horses backwards anyway."

That's not to say the CAA mods are "riding backwards" but that's just to say your best bet is to either A. Find a forum or site that is more "professionally" driven in this area and post your pics there. It doesn't have to be an angry "walk out" from CAA where you part ways from here. You can still post here or even put your pics up, you just have a preference for where your art is shown.

Or, B. If you really wanna stretch yourself, you can start your own forum/site dedicated towards professionally driven artists like yourselves. This'd be great training for when your ready to make money off of your works when you want people to notice it, plus it'd give you a deeper appreciation for what our mods go through.

That's all I have to say.

[Debitt]

It may just be that kid who's posts 29 images in the 4 minutes and begs for comments lives in a home where no one praises him. No one tells him he has potential. No one bothers to give him a moment's consideration-- and those 29 images are 29 cries not for artist's appreciation but for human appreciation. He just wants someone somewhere to make him think that he's got something to offer.
[...]
Basically, while I believe that everyone in this thread was well meaning, we're dedicated to making CAA a comfortable and encouraging place for all our members. At this point, that means that we allow everyone to post freely in the galleries, and I'd prefer that we didn't limit that freedom--even if it's only with power of peer pressure.

I agree very heartily with Nate and the sentiments others have - Limiting posts in the gallery shouldn't make anyone feel left out, and it would encourage people to really want to put their best foot forward and work on something they can really be proud of - it should foster self confidence instead of inhibiting it, and it would encourage other artists to comment, instead of making them feel put off because a mass gallery attack buried their work in a matter of minutes.

Additionally, while I understand that CAA should be place to encourage each other's growth, I don't know how I feel about the stance that this place should be a stand in for "human appreciation." The internet is not real life, and while the CAA people here are overwhelmingly more nurturing than other segments of the series of tubes, there's still a potential for individual harm that could come from wanting to have CAA be a place for real people with real problems to come crying to. Which is, in the end, a long way of saying that wanting to coddle a lonely kid might not be the best reason with which to justify Gallery spam. In the end, any decision is in the hands of the mods, but that's just my two cents.

[The Doctor]

Well, if we really want changes in how the mods deal with this, best thing is to pray I think.

And be respectful. People in charge don't listen to someone who tells them off...or rattles their saber all the time.

[Debitt]

No disrespect or telling off was meant, this former attention starved emo intarwebs kid was simply giving some advice. At any rate, I will edit my post to change some of the wording.

[The Doctor]

Sorry, my post wasn't meant to accuse people. Honestly, I didn't think anyone had been disrespectful, I was just hoping to warn people from going that far.

Now if people really want change, I really urge them to read my first post in this thread, which is on this page. Just scroll up to the top than slowly scroll down until you find it.

[mechana2015]

A. Find a forum or site that is more "professionally" driven in this area and post your pics there. It doesn't have to be an angry "walk out" from CAA where you part ways from here. You can still post here or even put your pics up, you just have a preference for where your art is shown.

Or, B. If you really wanna stretch yourself, you can start your own forum/site dedicated towards professionally driven artists like yourselves. This'd be great training for when your ready to make money off of your works when you want people to notice it, plus it'd give you a deeper appreciation for what our mods go through.

This already happened once. There was a fairly active art community here a while back, but when the art threads closed a lot of the people simply stopped posting art on the site. Many went to deviant art, and some didn't come back. Not all of the artists was allowed to go over to devart though, so they got stuck not posting or fighting for space. A few disappeared completely.

There are already sites for posting artwork elsewhere, but the problem with those sites is persuading the people from this site to go there to look at your art. The same problem exists with making a christian anime art forum elsewhere. On CAA there are over a thousand like minded individuals to poll for opinions on a subject, and many of them appreciate art or are involved in it. If I could be garanteed a dual membership rate of 50% of the members here on a christian anime art site, that'd be fantastic, but I consider it a highly unlikely occurance. If that ever were to happen, I'd be glad to help moderate/administrate a board like that. Sadly though, I don't have the technical know how to program one.

But when you allow people to post so much art that they push other members out of the way, effectively bullying them, it just seems to be the opposite of what you want to promote. I mean, what if say, someone posts a piece of art I hate and so out of spite I decide to post a bunch of sketches of mine just so no one can see it? That's the potential for abuse the current system has.

I see this as a big part of the problem. I've always made a point of only posting one or two things at a time on any forum or art site, so as to not seem like I was attempting to overshadow the users of any site.I wen't looking for a specific person's art a while back and couldn't find it even with their help. It had all been pushed into the ether, and no amount of searching made it found again.

I'm sure a lot of artists (myself included) could absolutely flood an art section of a site with sketches, process drawings or even completed works. If it takes 5-10 separate pieces of art to get any attention on any of them, I'm sure plenty of people could make the submissions, but at the expense of turning a gallery into an art war. Plenty of us are capeable of being art bullys.

It would be as if artists had to fight for space on the walls of a critiquing room by tearing others work down and replacing it with their own, or as if CAA's General section only showed 5 threads at a time visible for discussion and hid the rest somewhere else.

[Mangafanatic]

As a point of clarification, I'm not saying that you guys can't choose to follow these rules. I'm simply laying out the moderator's position at this point on this issue. Again, we want to know what you guys think, but we also want you to understand where we're coming from.

[ChristianKitsune]

First of all, Mangafantatic.. I didn't create this thread because I was angry at you mods. I also started that suggestion thread...and I hope that you don't see me as being defiant. That is TOTALLY not my goal here. I apologize if this is making your job harder than it should be.

What Nate said, and many other people have said on this thread is exactly what my feelings are on this matter... I know I get really bummed out when I post a pic and not an hour later it is already gone. But this isn't about me, and I know I am not the only person who this has happened to. Many times I have heard rumblings about what Mechana2015 said happens. People get fed up with the art gallery here, and move on to Deviant Art.

I know Doctor Suggested to make an entirely new forum dedicated to this stuff. But where is the fun in that? Where is the joy of showing your work to a community of Christian anime fans that you have interacted with for several months or years? I know I am coming up on my 2 year anniversary of joining CAA, and I remember waaaay back when I started posting here in the gallery. I made mistakes with my artwork, but when people pointed stuff out to me, about things that I needed to change, they didn't say, "YOUR ART IS CRUD! YOU ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE!!!!!" Instead, they said ,"Well, here is how you can fix this problem..." and they even showed me in a loving way of ways and techniques that I can use to improve. Since then I have taken their advice to heart, and I still use these techniques today.. I am still learning, and part of that learning is showing abilities you have gained through experience, critique and practice.

I feel that CAA is one of my favorite places to post my art. It's may not have the bells and whistles that DA has...but it has the love that some artists need to grow. And I feel sad when someone who has posted awesome artwork, that they sweated and bled over for hours, gets their work pushed back in less than five minutes. If someone would take the time to LOOK at that artwork, what knowledge can they gain?

I am not saying to stop all those who are just learning to draw. That isn't what I am saying at all!! However, if we discourage our older artists, how can those who are just learning get better? Sure they can learn on their own, but I feel that older artists should encourage the younger artists just as we get the praise from them. It should be a two way street I suppose.

At the same time, we should be protecting the younger artist's art work too... they need encouragement just as much as us older artists. Their work needs to be kept in view as long as possible so that we can help them... OR praise them, or both. If their work is pushed back, how can they get the feedback they need?


I know I am rambling...but this gallery is important to me...the artists here on CAA are important to me. The artwork they create is important.

Again, I didn't start this thread to be rude, or spiteful, I started it as simple mannerisms that we should think about before we spam the gallery... I only started it because there was a "TO ALL NEW PEOPLE" thread about how to post correctly, and so I thought it would be okay to start this one, and I didn't know where to put it, where it would be read...

So please forgive me if I stepped out of line here... ^_^ it wasn't my intentions.

I do see your points, Osaka and believe me, I have considered them. Even before you said something. I always wonder why someone would post so many pictures at once...there are many factors, but how can we discriminate between these factors? Wouldn't it be easier to just lay down a simple rule, rather than analyzing it? I dunno, I hope that wasn't out of line either.

thanks for reading this thread everyone.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Instead of 1 piece of artwork every 5 minutes... how about a piece of artwork every 12 or 24 hours?

[Raiden no Kishi]

Here's a question: Why don't we have a standard art forum? I thought we used to.

.rai//

[mechana2015]

Here's a question: Why don't we have a standard art forum? I thought we used to.

It got taken out due to it being considered redundant, and bandwith heavy, though it rendered all organized artistic discussion homeless.

[ChristianKitsune]

I can see where Mechan2015 is coming from. The artists on CAA don't seem as clsoe anymore because there really is no organization when it comes to discussing art...:x

[The Doctor]

I hope people weren't ticked off by what I said.

For clarification, yah there are not guarantees at all by starting your own forum and the odds are against you of being successful, but that's good training for the future. In the school of hard knocks, when you graduate, you always have a 4.0 because you survived the worst of it all.

I hope this issue is resolved peacefully.

[ChristianKitsune]

Naah not angry..^^; and I don't really think anyone is getting out of line or angry either...we just disgareed on a point that's all. :3

[Mangafanatic]

Coincidentally, I thought I'd just say that I don't think anyone has been rude or disrespectful. To any who apologize in case of such an offense, there's no need to apologize. Everyone's been very level headed. We may just be at that point where we choose to agree to disagree until there's a feasible solution that addresses all the needs mentioned in this thread. Thank you, everyone, for you input. I will consider your opinions more strongly in any discussions on this topic in the future.

[mechana2015]

For clarification, yah there are not guarantees at all by starting your own forum and the odds are against you of being successful, but that's good training for the future. In the school of hard knocks, when you graduate, you always have a 4.0 because you survived the worst of it all.

I hope this issue is resolved peacefully.

The point was not that of starting a successful forum, but that of attracting the right people to said forum specifically people on CAA. The issue isn't getting a site started its that I want to talk to the people on THIS site about art. This specific community.

I hope that it gets resolved. Period. The last time this came up in a thread it died and nothing happened.