I love. . .

[Radical Dreamer]

Just having a boyfriend or a girlfriend...I'm not sure that it is that big of a deal.

Technically speaking, it's not a huge, life-or-death deal, but not having one saves you from a lot of potential problems. A) 9 times out of 10, you're going to get your heart broken (possibly a number of times) when it doesn't have to be, and B) not having a boyfriend/girlfriend in highschool almost completely leaves you out of the possible "pregnant teenager" or "guy who impregnated the teenager that has to pay child support" demographic (I say almost because of rape, but that's not really the point). So yeah, in the end, it really just saves you a lot of trouble. Guy friends are better than boyfriends at this age, as far as I'm concerned. XD

Unless you were saying that it wasn't a big deal to NOT have a significant other at this age; if so...then we'll just say my post wasn't directed at you. XDD

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

It is inevitable in a relationship that the heart would be broken. But when you are mature of mind (eg. 18 or older) than you will be more prepared for it and hopefully will know how to deal with it. (Unlike many teens who date too early and hurt each other really badly and end up cutting or suiciding or getting into other stuff.
It's precautionary really.

[Dante]

: lol : Sorry Zilch according to current statistics you're still too young to date... Thus by the power invested in the truth of Raiden's statements, you lose . (Is having far too much fun)

[Destroyer2000]

W4J, I wouldn't judge maturity of mind based solely on age. I know many 18 year olds that should not date, and several 16 year olds that I would say it was safe for them to. Mental maturity, not physical, remember? There are some who are mature even at a young age.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Yes, I know age doesn't always equal maturity. But it was just an example, not meant to be taken as gospel.

I believe mental, emotional and spiritual maturity need to be taken into account also, (and finacial, when someone is close to being engaged).

[Raiden no Kishi]

I'm just laughing at how you define yourself as old enough and someone else two years younger than you to be too young. At what point DOES one change from young to old in your book? Two years makes THAT much of a difference , no don't think so... But out of curiosity (and to torture your mind) define old enough and too young in your mind based off age alone and give a REAL good reason for it.

-Is Ebil-
Pascal

Whoever said I thought I was old enough? Where the heck did you read that? Did you not read my post where I specifically stated that I was waiting for several years myself? What benefit do you get at my expense here?

I won't be lured into giving specific ages. I don't think that's an accurate way to judge it. I would say, as a rule of thumb, that it is most preferable to be out of college and in the real world for a while before searching for a mate. Have a career, an education, and a firm relationship with God. Is there a magic date where you instantly become ready to find a mate? Of course not. But I know enough from my own experience, watching others, and going from the advice of wise people who have been there themselves that high-school-age is almost universally too young. I'm out of high school, about to go to college, and I know I have a lot of maturing to go through. I haven't yet solidified in my own identity, and no-one I know who is roughly my age has either [many of them more mature than I].

Enough. Seriously. What is your problem?

And by the by . . .

: : chugs purple PowerAde, belts Pascal one over the head : :

Even's even. ^_^

.rai//

P.S. May I also have the honor of a snicker at the fact that you are attacking me for advising when I am 2 years older than Matx, when you are but one year older than I?

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Almost no one would ever get married early on if they had to follow your advice.
Many people I know work part-time and are in college and are engaged or getting married (20-24 year old age bracket). I don't think it matters in some cases.
Like if you are to be missionaries money is not something you will have a lot of. It's not a secure job but it sure would teach you to trust in God for everything all the more.
I don't know. I think it's a matter of 'you will know when the time is ripe."

[Mr. SmartyPants]

Pascal....

What the heck are you smoking? You seem a bit off the hook for some reason. XD Besides, you're only one year older than Raiden. =p

[Raiden no Kishi]

to W4J: I understand there will be exceptions, which is why I tout it as a rule of thumb. ^_^

.rai//

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Oh, yes. Oops.
Forgot about the 'Thumb' bit.

[Raiden no Kishi]

Don't worry about it. ^_^

.rai//

[Dante]

As to what I'm smoking ask Zarn, (actually nothing, but he asks me that all the time) mostly I'm getting good jollies out of your writing Raiden, nothing more. I am only about 1 year older than you, but mostly for fun. I fully realize the importance of the issue, but find the use of age as a measurement to be silly. However, I see that we are both in agreement in the end anyways Raidden. Nonetheless, fair is fair (takes bonk to the head happily)

[Nate]

I don't use age as a be-all end-all to the dating question. As others have stated, I've known 16 year olds that were very mature and would have handled a relationship well I believe, and I've known 23 year olds that were too immature to be dating. So I'm not saying "18 and up can date."

What I'm saying is that as a general rule, 13, 14, 15 year olds, they shouldn't be dating as it more than likely won't last (I'm not saying it won't; it can, but it's quite unlikely, so it's best not to risk a broken heart), and since the purpose of dating is to find someone to marry, why date when you're not old enough to get married?

[AnubisWerewolf]

Ugh.....the fun times of dating.....don't miss that.

[Dante]

Nate's right, why don't you people ever listen?! Sheesh, good way to phrase that Nate!

[Azier the Swordsman]

I watched my friends "have fun" dating as a teenager. If I wanted too, I probably could have gotten it all on camera and passed it off as an angsty soap opera.

[Doubleshadow]

Oh wow... that's really sad! Sad enough that our high school in town has a day care right next door :/ Not that it's trying to be encouraging or anything, but at least it can help out these people who still go to high school :/ Yeah... that's also what we get for being formally know as "The Teen Pregnant Capital of British Columbia" :/

People are just... too young to take such things seriously :/

Ditto. We have a day care center that is used for child care courses in our Vo-Tech beside the high school. Someone said to a teacher, "That's so nice! The teachers have a daycare for their kids." The teacher replied, "No, it's a daycare for the students kids."

I have a question for those who date recreationally, that is without any intent of getting married anytime soon, what do you want from a boyfriend or girlfriend that you can't get from a friend?

[Nate]

I have a question for those who date recreationally, that is without any intent of getting married anytime soon, what do you want from a boyfriend or girlfriend that you can't get from a friend?

Ultimately I think that's what it boils down to. You don't have to date someone to hang out with them and have a good time. There's only two reasons to date someone, the first being to get physically intimate with a person, and the second to determine compatibility for marriage.

So if you're not dating for marriage, that leaves only one reason to date. And if you're just dating someone to make out with them, isn't that pretty much lust and adultery? That's why I think we as Christians should be against recreational dating. Dating to determine marriage compatibility isn't wrong, but dating just to date sure is.

[Aoshi]

Ultimately I think that's what it boils down to. You don't have to date someone to hang out with them and have a good time. There's only two reasons to date someone, the first being to get physically intimate with a person, and the second to determine compatibility for marriage.

So if you're not dating for marriage, that leaves only one reason to date. And if you're just dating someone to make out with them, isn't that pretty much lust and adultery? That's why I think we as Christians should be against recreational dating. Dating to determine marriage compatibility isn't wrong, but dating just to date sure is.

True, but there is nothing that says you can't have an intimate relationship with someone who isn't your spouse. And adultery is defined sex with someone married. You don't have to have sex with someone to be in a relationship with them. There's absolutly nothing wrong with cuddling someone. I won't deny that lust can be "argued" about it. But lust is just looking as someone and wanting them sexually. Once again, dating doesn't have to be about that because you don't have to have sex.

If a person wants to date, to determine compatibility for marriage, and believes the person they are dateing is someone that they will be with, are you saying it's wrong for them to be affectionate with them? God has made no rules saying that you can't be affectionate with someone you genuinely care about. Now, things may not work out, true, but at least you still care about the person hence the genuinely part.

Yes you don't have to date someone to hang out and have fun with them, however, You don't have to have sex with someone to date them either.

[Nate]

And adultery is defined sex with someone married.

27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

From Matthew 5.

So unless you're making out with a woman you consider repulsive, you're committing adultery.

If a person wants to date, to determine compatibility for marriage, and believes the person they are dateing is someone that they will be with, are you saying it's wrong for them to be affectionate with them?

No. I said that there are two purposes to dating, to determine compatibility for marriage OR physical intimacy. I say there are two purposes because:

1) There are some Christians who date, but do not get physically intimate with the person because they want to save their first kiss for their wedding day.

2) There are people who date without any intention of getting married but do so because they want to get intimate with the other person.

I think as Christians, we should avoid the second one. Why? Because Jesus already said that if we even so much as LOOK at a girl lustfully, we're adulterers. And yeah, you can argue "I can make out with a girl without lusting after her," but come on. One, who do you think you're fooling (certainly not God), and two, do you really want to tempt yourself like that? You're on the couch shoving tongues down each others throats, and before you even know it hands are where they shouldn't be.

You might say "That won't happen to me." And as a person who has had this happen to him, I can say, you are completely wrong. In the throes of passion you will do things you never thought yourself capable of. This is experience talking. This is a guy who said "It won't happen to me." Guess what? Even with my strong faith in Christ, it STILL happened to me.

Yes you don't have to date someone to hang out and have fun with them, however, You don't have to have sex with someone to date them either.

Then as Doubleshadow and I said, what's the purpose of dating? Making out and cuddling I classify as lustful. After all, I don't cuddle or make out with guys. So if you're not kissing them, not cuddling with them, what's the point? You might as well just be friends with them. Dating without physical intimacy or intention of marriage has no purpose.

[Aoshi]

27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I knew you were going to bring that up, and there's just so much i can say about it. but the simplest part of it is, what is lust to each person. For me, lust is simply looking at a girl and saying "Wow she's hot, i want to stick my *** in her ***" For you it's, "she's pretty, i'd like to geniunely get to know her." Difference of opinion.

So unless you're making out with a woman you consider repulsive, you're committing adultery.

Once again, opinion. If you say "jesus says you commit adultery by looking a woman and that's the law" then you also agree that he changed the law. Which he himself said he didn't. To me it's just an example of us being human and not being able to completely understand what he said. The same way lust is different for me and you.

And yeah, you can argue "I can make out with a girl without lusting after her," but come on. One, who do you think you're fooling (certainly not God), and two, do you really want to tempt yourself like that? You're on the couch shoving tongues down each others throats, and before you even know it hands are where they shouldn't be.

You might say "That won't happen to me." And as a person who has had this happen to him, I can say, you are completely wrong. In the throes of passion you will do things you never thought yourself capable of. This is experience talking. This is a guy who said "It won't happen to me." Guess what? Even with my strong faith in Christ, it STILL happened to me.

And those are just our differences in strength of faith. I'm still a virgin, and yes, i've been intimate with women on more than few occasions. So it's not that i will say "That won't happen to me" but more so because i say that i can't lie to myself that it can't happen to me. The same way i say that i wish i would die but can't commit suicide. Just because you couldn't keep to your rules, doesn't mean no one can.

Then as Doubleshadow and I said, what's the purpose of dating? Making out and cuddling I classify as lustful. After all, I don't cuddle or make out with guys. So if you're not kissing them, not cuddling with them, what's the point? You might as well just be friends with them. Dating without physical intimacy or intention of marriage has no purpose.

We'll just have to chauk it up to differences of opinion then. I don't believe that just because you haven't decided that you will marry a person it's wrong to be intimate with them if you truely care about them. Sure, i do believe that it's something you shouldn't just do with anyone. (i really don't have to touch the make out with guys angle do i? i mean..seriously)However, i also belive that just because you haven't said you will marry a person, doesn't mean intimacy is out of the question. Nor do i believe that because you are intimate with them you are sinning. Sin is an act, and if i were to take that jesus scripture in the context of what you say and apply it to another law, like stealing then that means that whenever i see something and the thought of me stealing it comes into my head happens. Because i thought of it, i've already sinned.

[Nate]

First of all man, we've got kids on this site, all right? I'm no mod or anything but you didn't have to say something like in that first paragraph, that's pretty messed up.

I'm not saying looking at a girl = lust. But if you say, "She's hot, man, I'd like to kiss her," I'd say that's lust. I don't look at guys and want to kiss them, I don't look at my mom and want to kiss her (not in a romantic sense I mean), because I don't have lust for them.

I think ultimately you're mixing up what I'm saying. I'm not saying that kissing a girl you're not married to is bad. I'm not saying being intimate with a girl you're dating is bad. What I'm saying is if you're kissing this girl and cuddling with her and in the back of your mind going "I'm not gonna marry this girl," that's bad.

If I date a girl, and have every intention of marrying her, and I kiss her, and cuddle with her, and whatnot...and after a few months we decide, hey, it isn't working out, we should end the relationship now, I haven't done anything wrong. I was genuinely caring about her, and wanted to be with her, and it just happened that she was wrong.

That's fine. What I'm saying is wrong is never having the intention of marrying her in the first place, not having the genuine care for the girl, that is when the sin comes in. Saying, "I want to be with this girl because I want to have my desires of having someone to cuddle fulfilled," that's when it becomes lust.

Sin is an act, and if i were to take that jesus scripture in the context of what you say and apply it to another law, like stealing then that means that whenever i see something and the thought of me stealing it comes into my head happens. Because i thought of it, i've already sinned.

I'll have to correct your theology here. That's the point Jesus was making is that even THINKING of committing sin is the same as doing it. God judges us by our intentions, that's the point Jesus was making. It's the same reason why He said that if you look at your brother and say "I hate you" you're already guilty of murder. That's pretty strict, to say that hating someone is the equivalent of killing them. But that's the standard God holds us to. It's not our acts that define us. Ever seen people give money to charity? What if, in the back of their mind they're going, "Man, I don't like doing this but I want everyone to think I'm a good person."

That's why you can't say it's our acts that define us as Christians. It's our hearts. It's our intentions. That's how God judges us. Sin isn't an act, it's a defiance of God. And even the thought of defying God, is sin.

[Aoshi]

First of all man, we've got kids on this site, all right? I'm no mod or anything but you didn't have to say something like in that first paragraph, that's pretty messed up.

I'm not saying looking at a girl = lust. But if you say, "She's hot, man, I'd like to kiss her," I'd say that's lust. I don't look at guys and want to kiss them, I don't look at my mom and want to kiss her (not in a romantic sense I mean), because I don't have lust for them.

I think ultimately you're mixing up what I'm saying. I'm not saying that kissing a girl you're not married to is bad. I'm not saying being intimate with a girl you're dating is bad. What I'm saying is if you're kissing this girl and cuddling with her and in the back of your mind going "I'm not gonna marry this girl," that's bad.

If I date a girl, and have every intention of marrying her, and I kiss her, and cuddle with her, and whatnot...and after a few months we decide, hey, it isn't working out, we should end the relationship now, I haven't done anything wrong. I was genuinely caring about her, and wanted to be with her, and it just happened that she was wrong.

That's fine. What I'm saying is wrong is never having the intention of marrying her in the first place, not having the genuine care for the girl, that is when the sin comes in. Saying, "I want to be with this girl because I want to have my desires of having someone to cuddle fulfilled," that's when it becomes lust.

I'll have to correct your theology here. That's the point Jesus was making is that even THINKING of committing sin is the same as doing it. God judges us by our intentions, that's the point Jesus was making. It's the same reason why He said that if you look at your brother and say "I hate you" you're already guilty of murder. That's pretty strict, to say that hating someone is the equivalent of killing them. But that's the standard God holds us to. It's not our acts that define us. Ever seen people give money to charity? What if, in the back of their mind they're going, "Man, I don't like doing this but I want everyone to think I'm a good person."

That's why you can't say it's our acts that define us as Christians. It's our hearts. It's our intentions. That's how God judges us. Sin isn't an act, it's a defiance of God. And even the thought of defying God, is sin.

We are devuldging from the topic so i'm going to leave it with this one. I don't think your acts define you as a christian as a whole, but they are a MAJOR part of it. I hear people all the time saying "well i don't go to church or fellowship because it's too troublesome, but god knows my heart so it's ok." But that's contridictory, because if you love god, even if you don't like a rule he made, you do it because you should understand with that love, that he knows best. Saying that i can't think about defying god, would mean that it's taking away my choice, And if it's that i can't think bad things because it means i've already sinned, then I may as well be doomed to hell now. In fact all of us should be. Because the thought of not being a person who would do it, and the thought of not doing it, is the thought of it in itself. We will just disagree on it.

To the original post i say, Don't date girls already taken. If she dumps her bf to get with you, then she has potential to dump you to get with someone else. Regardless of how wonderful you think she is, and how wonderful you would be with her, and how you wouldn't ever treat her in a way that would make her do the same to you. She can, and possibly will do it to you. There are plenty of other more loyal girls.

[Nate]

I won't get too far off subject here (since we have already XD;; ) but I wanted to clarify something, that you made a good point about. I guess I worded it badly, but I didn't mean that like, our intentions were the ONLY part of Christianity. Because like you said, if someone says that kind of stuff like you said, that would be bad. Or like James said, if we see someone who needs clothes or food and go "Gee, I really want to help him, but I'm busy, but I wanted to help him so that's okay," then yeah, that's bad.

So I guess I should have said, our faith isn't defined completely by actions, but nor is it defined completely by intentions either. It takes both to be a Christian, because we're supposed to do the right thing, but we often mess up because we're still sinful creatures.

And yeah. I disagree on your bit about having the choice, but I think that's a conversation unsuitable for this thread, so I guess we'll leave it at that. ^^

[Matx]

[quote="Nate"]I won't get too far off subject here (since we have already XD]
excuse me! what r yall talking about? this thing was made for me toget some advise....

[Matx]

[quote="Destroyer2000"]While I agree that relationships cause very little good, and much more trouble, remember this: he is seventeen. He has those emotional urges that you all did at that age. While I am the same age and I have somewhat learned to control my emotions, he may not have. He may not have made the oath to date only who you will marry, and to me, that sounds impossible, even though I once told myself I would do it. Telling him that they aren't much good at this age won't help much. Even I, who has maintained the coldness and dsitance required to avoid relationshisp, often has those urges for companionship. They become stronger as time passes. I also think some of you get dating and courting mixed up, but that is another topic. Nonetheless, as to the original poster...if she has a boyfriend, accept it and move on. You don't love her, though you make think you do. In the EXTREMELY RARE cases where a young couple actually WAS in love (and I stress the rarity of it ten fold), things worked out like a fairy tale. But just think about it]
uh......i never said i was lusting or doing anything wrong to appease myself. k....

[CrimsonRyu17]

excuse me! what r yall talking about? this thing was made for me toget some advise....

Y'know, I've been watching this thread and I want to say something. Excuse me if it sounds offensive.

But have you not read the last three pages full of advice? They've told you not to mess with the girl. She already has a boyfriend. It isn't right for you to steal someone from someone else just because YOU want her. Period. The end. Have a problem with that? Take it up with God.

[Reba]

I agree with Ryu' You also gotta consider the girls feeling,Wonder if she doesn't like you? If you tried to brake up her relationship with her Guy She'd Probably Hate you,If she doesn't hardly even know you she'd probably back away and she'd not like you anymore if a guy who she hardly knows Is trying to get with her she'd think thats kinda creepy probably.

[Radical Dreamer]

Let it be known that I agree with the above two posts 100%.

[Kai Robin]

What's wrong with you people! NO DATING IN HIGH SCHOOL!?!?!?!
I'm pretty sure a man's duty in high school is to chase girls! have fun! get your heartbroken! and do it again!

Seriously, as long as you don't become and overydizty emotional dope it can be a good way to learn more about yourself and who you're really looking for.