Plastic/Cosmetic Surgery

[Mave]

This evening, my landlady (I rent a room) and other female tenant came home sporting some plastic wraps on themselves. At first impression, I thought "Oh Lord, that's one awful fashion trend" but after an enquiry or two, I learnt that it's part of a body slimming regime.

Not only do these ladies go for this eh....slimming procedure, they have both launched into some campaign of drinking diet chocolate drinks. After a bit more discussion, I further learnt that my landlady was thinking of getting liposuction and is considering Botox in the future.

(0___0);;;; Folks, my landlady is in her early thirties and she eh....is quite slim. I seriously doubt she weighs more than 120 lbs (height ~ 5 feet plus). I told her that she is slim enough and she looks great but she ardently believes that this 'maintenance' is absolutely important as she gets older.

OK, I'm a little perplexed. Now, I don't consider myself the prettiest gal in the world but I do think that "Hey, I'm not bad. I've got a good shapely figure and my skin is quite clear." If I wanted to find fault with my physical looks, ok...there are some forehead wrinkles, flat-chestedness and cellulite on my thighs, which I wish would go away. BUT I usually pooh-pooh it away, deciding that I can live with these so-called imperfections.

Enough about me...back to other ladies: I've additionally heard that some young ladies (as young as their teens) in the U.S. have gone for some type of plastic surgery. It may be a boob job or some liposuction (I don't know). One of my Indonesian friends had a double eyelid job when she was at her early twenties while some American female friends planned on doing Botox once they hit their thirties. So yeah, I'm talking about any type of surgery used to enhance your physical looks.

This type of thing seems to be getting more and more common these days to the point that it's almost....acceptable and normal to do it. My question for ladies of CAA: Have you done this before or have friends who have already done this form of surgery? I'm curious to know more about the procedures, side-effects (if any) and the reasons behind doing this.

Second question (for CAA guys): This may get sensitive for some (pls try to stay civil on this, ok ladies?) honestly, do you support/encourage it if your lady friend/wife goes for one of these jobs? My ex once told me that he wouldn't mind it if I did a boob job to boost my flat chest. I was quite furious by his response for reasons I will not mention. But I've gotten over that phase and promise not to get mad at anyone's honest response!

NOTE: Please don't bash or talk trash about women who have gone through these procedures or on men who support it. I'm not enthusiatic or supportive of these 'jobs' but neither am I gonna condemned anyone for deciding to do this. I'm just curious about this topic since I've never considered them for myself.

[Mr. SmartyPants]

I think that such surgeries are just... completely unnatural and "like totally ew". However I suppose the double eyelid surgery is fine. I mean my mom and sister got it when they were younger. I myself only have a single eyelid.

[Taliesin]

I don't know much about cosmetic surgery but what I do know I don't like. If our bodies are gods temples then its like remodeling an ancient Greek or roman temple. God doesn't want us to care to much about how we look and cosmetic surgery means you need to look good so much that you are willing to pay thousands of dollars to look better. I don't think that thats what god wants us to do. I'm sorry if I offend

[K. Ayato]

Good point. Unless there's a good reason for it (e.g. a serious accident leaving half of your face scarred), I don't support getting plastic surgery.

My dad put it more or less this way: Plastic surgery and shows like The Swan (which I used to watch; now can't believe I did) are mutilation jobs disguised as things to do to become pretty. And tying into what Taliesin said, God designed our bodies. He didn't make a mistake.

Also, there are other ways to look more attractive without going through surgery. For me, it was changing the way I part my hair. Not very noticable, but the overall effect was cool.

[Yojimbo]

Not all plastic surgery is for purely cosmetic reasons. My mother had reconstructive surgery in the form of a breast reduction after she was pregnant because it was causing her severe back pain. Burn victims, cleft lips, palate, soldiers/police officers wounded in the line of fire, victims of assault so on where facial tissue is severely damaged and disfigured, it definitely has it's place. Now people doing it purely to get rid those "love handles" or get bigger boobs that's a different story. I prefer a natural woman to anything fake period.

Just for clarification people plastic surgery is a general term. Reconstructive and cosmetic are both plastic surgery's but do not generalize cosmetic with plastic.

[K. Ayato]

Thanks for the heads up, man.

[termyt]

Second question (for CAA guys): This may get sensitive for some (pls try to stay civil on this, ok ladies?) honestly, do you support/encourage it if your lady friend/wife goes for one of these jobs? My ex once told me that he wouldn't mind it if I did a boob job to boost my flat chest. I was quite furious by his response for reasons I will not mention. But I've gotten over that phase and promise not to get mad at anyone's honest response!

First off, I would not presume to tell any female with whom I shared any kind of intimacy with what she should do with her body. It is wholly her choice and I would support her in any way I can. Any male who answers this question differently should immediately have their motivation questioned. I’m not saying their motivation is automatically bad, but it should be investigated. I would be angry at your boy friend, too.

If asked my opinion, as Mave did here, my immediate reaction would be against the procedure, but there are some very legitimate reasons for plastic surgery and my opinion would depend on the friend’s situation. If it’s to make a male happy, he isn’t worth it. If it is to make her feel better about her self, it probably won’t work – at least not for very long. But there could always be extenuating circumstances and my opinion would never be absolute - I do not believe plastic surgery in anyway thwarts God's will. Once again, it is wholly the girl’s choice.

[Radical Dreamer]

Not all plastic surgery is for purely cosmetic reasons. My mother had reconstructive surgery in the form of a breast reduction after she was pregnant because it was causing her severe back pain. Burn victims, cleft lips, palate, soldiers/police officers wounded in the line of fire, victims of assault so on where facial tissue is severely damaged and disfigured, it definitely has it's place. Now people doing it purely to get rid those "love handles" or get bigger boobs that's a different story. I prefer a natural woman to anything fake period.

Just for clarification people plastic surgery is a general term. Reconstructive and cosmetic are both plastic surgery's but do not generalize cosmetic with plastic.

I agree 100%. I don't think people should undergo surgery to fix things that aren't really a health problem (i.e., nose jobs, breast implants, etc.), but I'm all for it when people born with cleft palates and the like get reconstructive surgery. Still, I never understood why anyone would actually WANT to get surgery that was for cosmetic purposes. I don't like having surgery to begin with, but having surgery that you don't have to have is beyond me. XD

[wingedfox]

My sister had to have some done on her neck after surgery to help the scar heal more naturally

[God's Samurai]

I don't personally support cosmetic surgery. I think people should look like God made them. Beauty, after all, is in the eye of the beholder. If a man is attracted to a woman simply because of her looks then it's simply lust and we should never act upon lust but only on love. If a woman wants to change the way she looks that's up to her but they should do it by natural means. I mean if anyone has a problem with the way they look they can work on it without having to go under the knife. I personally think that girls who have surgery usually become less attractive in the end. I don't know about most guys but I wouldn't personally want to marry a Barbie doll. But then again I'm not like most guys.

[Doubleshadow]

I'll do my best to not rant.

I hate cosmetic (not reconstuctive, which I love) surgery to a depth I cannot describe. It's a seething hatred that I am positive is a sin, especially when it makes me feel like physically harming my relatives who undergo it. Last time this happened I had to go out behind the barn for hours to calm down because it was all I could do not to slap my aunt with everything I had.

That said, she had Botox in her forehead. It didn't work, thus $400 dollars down the drain.

[mitsuki lover]

Perhaps a sign of the times is the fact that one of the popular shows on FX network is Nip/Tuck the series about a pair of plastic surgeons.
As far as it goes there are legitmate reasons for having plastic surgery done,though what was described,loosing weight to look better when the person is
already svelte enough,is not one of them.I can understand it if you said they were
each around 320 lbs and in that case the surgery would be necessary,especially if
they tried everything else and it didn't work.But for two otherwise healthy and
slim women to do so is rather a vanity thing.
And this is the real problem with a lot of plastic surgery in especially the major
industrial countries,most of it seems to be simply for vanity's sake.
Now as far as it goes,since I am not currently involved with anyone this would be simply a hypotethical question that I do not choose to answer at the moment.

[Tenshi no Ai]

One of my friends had a bit of plastic surgery, which she never did tell me because I heard from another friend she was closer to. Apparnetly she was really self conscious about her ears :/ Apparently they were flipped forward a bit too much and she didn't like them like that :/ So, she went and got surgery to tuck them back. When I heard about it, she apparently knew someone else that had the same procedure done (maybe she got the idea from the other girl).

She may like it better now, but I've never once supported the idea, even though she hasn't even told me about it :/ And honestly, if anyone has ever seen the shows where they SHOW the procedures, it's just plain sick >_< It's just... all about trying to look like someone who you're not. And ever notice on shows like The Swan where they have the pagent and all the girls returns, that it is only THEN when the girls get dates?? I mean that's just sad :/ And on shows like that, it always seems that someone is still self-conscious about a body part that Elementary Schoolers made fun of :/ Sort of sad to still be dwelling on something a bunch of 6 year olds told you. Maybe they were called "big nose" then, but in their 30s and married with kids, is it honestly something they should be worrying about? Also interesting in the show is that when someone wants to fix their nose they have the people inspect them and go "Ok, you need your teeth fixed, a tummy tuck, etc etc etc" to just pile on the flaws they notice (and always male doctors it seems, who examine these things...)

It's also interesting on this one show I watched where an Asian girl didn't like how she looked and wanted to look more "white", so got her eyes fixed up :/ Honestly, you could hardly tell the difference, but they do :/

...My own rant here is done :/

[Fish and Chips]

Second question (for CAA guys): This may get sensitive for some (pls try to stay civil on this, ok ladies?) honestly, do you support/encourage it if your lady friend/wife goes for one of these jobs?

Absolutely not. When I eventually pair off with one of the lady-types, I'd rather it be for more than just her looks. Similarly, I'd prefer she doesn't think she needs it either.

[KBMaster]

My aunt underwent a stroke because of her liposuction, so you can imagine my view on it. I do not support cosmetic surgery in ANY way. I believe that there are alternatives to undergoing surgery to look beautiful. Vanity is sinful. I'd like to be 30 pounds lighter, but I'm not going to have my fat sucked out. If I want to lose weight, I'll do it in a safe and healthy manner.

[Cap'n Nick]

I generally oppose optional cosmetic surgery, but only because of the risk, expense and inconvenience. As these impediments decline I believe there could come I time where I could wholeheartedly endorse it.

Anybody looking for worth in their image will ultimately be disappointed. But as far as altering one's self, cosmetic surgery isn't that much different from cutting hair, wearing nice clothes, eating right, taking showers or any of the other million things we do to make ourselves more presentable.

[Raiden no Kishi]

The only cosmetic surgery I would condone/support would be reconstructive or to fix a birth defect or other serious deformity.

Vanity surgery? NEIN, I SAY. Look, I'm overweight. I know it. But did I go get a liposuction? No. I got a gym membership and started watching what I eat. It isn't that hard, people. Sheesh.

.rai//

P.S. I don't get the eyelid surgery. Asian eyelids are cool. I'm fine with my gaijin eyes, but why try to be something you aren't?

[Tenshi no Ai]

I'm fine with my gaijin eyes

"Foreigner eyes"? Maybe you were thinking that caucasian=gaijin, but no just... a foreigner^^

[Kai Robin]

I don't think its the WORST thing in the world....to each his own, but if you got it it'd be hard to sing songs about sincere love....and you wouldn't have the right to sing My Funny Valentine anymore...or Fake Plastic Trees for that matter.

Just for arguments sake......so some people are born beautiful and some people are not. We are all judged by our looks, so exactly how "wrong" is it to level the playing field?

[Raiden no Kishi]

"Foreigner eyes"? Maybe you were thinking that caucasian=gaijin, but no just... a foreigner^^

I know it means foreigner. Felt random. YOU ALL KNOW WHAT I MEAN!

: : goes chibi and cries : :

.rai//

[KBMaster]

I don't think its the WORST thing in the world....to each his own, but if you got it it'd be hard to sing songs about sincere love....and you wouldn't have the right to sing My Funny Valentine anymore...or Fake Plastic Trees for that matter.

Just for arguments sake......so some people are born beautiful and some people are not. We are all judged by our looks, so exactly how "wrong" is it to level the playing field?

If you were born beautiful that was God's will. If you weren't, that too is God's will. We shouldn't try to change it through revamping our looks. And we as Christians shouldn't care how others view our physical beauty; not saying we don't, just saying we should focus more on how people view us on the inside rather than on the outside. Like my mom says, beauty comes from within.

[Raiden no Kishi]

I understand and agree with you in principle, KBMaster, but we should keep in mind that humans are naturally inclined to judge others based on appearance, even subconciously, and should take that into consideration.

However, I am totally on board with you in that we ought to fight that inclination. ^_^

.rai//

[Mr. SmartyPants]

P.S. I don't get the eyelid surgery. Asian eyelids are cool. I'm fine with my gaijin eyes, but why try to be something you aren't?

It's an asian thing.

Just for arguments sake......so some people are born beautiful and some people are not. We are all judged by our looks, so exactly how "wrong" is it to level the playing field?

The flaw of that argument is that beauty is 100% subjective. Therefore the ones you call "born beautiful" are the ones that only look beautiful in your eyes.

However it is important to note that Girl A with the nice face, smile, hair, and cute eyes would generally be perceived as prettier than girl B with the crooked teeth, lazy eye, and facial hair. This is due to conditioning of what modern society sees as "beautiful", and our upbringings in said society is what implants the definition of "beautiful" within our minds.

Yes we are initially judged by our looks, but who's judging us? Unless you're a 500 pound behemoth woman with fangs and three eyes, I don't really see the need to be self-conscious about such things. But even so, there are 500 pound behemoth women with fangs and three eyes who are happy with themselves. A first impression is undoubtedly going to put an opinion in somebody's mind, but it's really the heart that matters; and good people understand that.

[Tenshi no Ai]

This is due to conditioning of what moder society sees as "beautiful", and our upbringings in said society is what implants the definition of "beautiful" within our minds.

Well, if we lived only a few hundred years ago, being overweight and having pale skin would be concidered extremely attractive (course, in those days it was mostly because those people had all the money).

I hope people decide to level off some in the near future, looking at the latest trends of anorexia in many celebrities :/

[KBMaster]

I understand and agree with you in principle, KBMaster, but we should keep in mind that humans are naturally inclined to judge others based on appearance, even subconciously, and should take that into consideration.

However, I am totally on board with you in that we ought to fight that inclination. ^_^

.rai//

Oh, I know that. I'm just saying our inside is more important than the outside.

[Raiden no Kishi]

And I'm with you 100% there. ^_^

.rai//

[Puguni]

I guess girls do it because of low self esteem, or maybe, like others have pointed out, because an accident has made them so grotesque that they get varied responses, most of which aren't positive.

I don't know anyone in my school who has done it because I don't ask. Some have probably done it; God knows some of them have the money to do it. Cheap plastic surgery is not pretty in the long run. ;>>

[Mithrandir]

I'll make the distinction between cosmetic and reconstructive. I have never had a problem with reconstructive. As for cosmetic...

If a man is attracted to a woman simply because of her looks then it's simply lust

I don't think I can agree with this. I know pleanty of happily married couples where the guy was initially infatuated with a girl's looks, and later went on to develop a great relationship. My best friend, in fact. I can't *ever* endorse generalizations. ]If I want to lose weight, I'll do it in a safe and healthy manner.[/quote]A VERY good point. Losing weight by excercise is pretty much the only "totally safe" solution to this one. Addtionally, you'll have more energy AND feel better about yourself.

But as far as altering one's self, cosmetic surgery isn't that much different from cutting hair, wearing nice clothes, eating right, taking showers or any of the other million things we do to make ourselves more presentable.

Hang on... Let's draw a distinct line between Hygiene (things we do to keep FROM having social trouble) and "Pretty-fying." When costmetic sugery is a both as safe and as common as trimming my hair and nails, we can have this discussion. Until then, we are setting a dangerous precident in determining how people should feel about themselves. History would indicate that, when it's ultra-common to have these procedures, it's not going to have the same psycological impact that it currently does.

We are all judged by our looks, so exactly how "wrong" is it to level the playing field?

If you are one of the people campaigning for social justice, then you would be asking, "Why don't we STOP judging by looks." It's a question of your initial stance on things, nothing more. That being said, I belive you are in the minority with this opinion (well, at least on this board).


Let me put my opinion this way: In the middle ages, cosmetics could ACTUALLY harm you (mercury based rouge, for example). If I were in that society, and knew about the dangers, I would not advocate for using them. That being said, I am not anti-makup in todays world.

I think you can extrapolate that to the next logical steps.

[Nate]

About the lust comment, you know, it's possible to lust after someone and not even know what they look like. An emotional lust, if you will.

Just for arguments sake......so some people are born beautiful and some people are not.

Says who? Let me tell you something. I like women that are a bit overweight. I like women that have smaller chests.

You see the problem with your statement? Beauty is extremely subjective, as Ryan said. A woman that's a bit plump, if she dieted like crazy and ended up looking like Kate Moss, that would make her extremely unattractive in my eyes.

I'm not saying it's bad to want to improve how you look, because it isn't. But to say "I'm not beautiful so I'm doing this so I will be," that's absurd and vain.

[Alice]

I would not do it because it is, in my opinion, expensive and wasteful, and it's dangerous (hey, it's surgery). If I found out someone I knew had had cosmetic surgery done, I would probably think a little less of them. I might feel sorry for them or something, but I would be disappointed in them because I would have hoped they wouldn't bow to external (or low-self esteem) pressure like that.

On the other hand, I can TOTALLY understand the feelings that must be involved: wanting to look better, be more socially acceptable, look more 'hot' (especially if you lived or worked in an area, like Hollywood, where this is really, really important). And if the person had the money to do it, and no strong moral-or-otherwise objections, well, I can see how they would be tempted.

I guess what I mean is, if I was in that position, I would be tempted. I hope I wouldn't do it, but I would be tempted.