4 one I HATE WHEN PEOPLE MISJUDGE MEEE!!!!!!!!...but we werent here on this earth by God 2 hate. after all thats how Jesus came 2 earth, through love. the most humble settings, in a manger, "that whosoever beliveth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16.
so, LOVE.......or.........HATE.......tell me.
hate vs. love
69 posts •
Page 1 of 3 •
hate vs. love
Love, is even stronger than an angel!!! 
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Matx - Posts: 30
- Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: Earth(4 Now)
*Scratches head* I'm not sure I follow...
K. Ayato: What happens if you press the small red button?
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
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K. Ayato - Posts: 3881
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Southern California
Uh...what?
Seriously dude, start speaking English. I'm GUESSING you're asking which is better or something? Well, hate and love both have their uses. We're supposed to hate sin after all, God certainly hates sin, so we need to have both love and hate to be who God wants us to be.
Seriously dude, start speaking English. I'm GUESSING you're asking which is better or something? Well, hate and love both have their uses. We're supposed to hate sin after all, God certainly hates sin, so we need to have both love and hate to be who God wants us to be.
Ezekiel 23:20
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Nate - Posts: 10725
- Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: Oh right, like anyone actually cares.
Matx, you're 17 for Goodness Sakes! Act like one.
You haven't introduced the subject well, you haven't posed a question or even anything to discuss. This is unbearable.
You haven't introduced the subject well, you haven't posed a question or even anything to discuss. This is unbearable.
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Warrior 4 Jesus - Posts: 4844
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:52 pm
- Location: The driest continent that isn't Antarctica.
If ye do not want to be misjudged:
1) Stop using the chat to find dates.
2) Use proper English grammar and punctuation when typing.
1) Stop using the chat to find dates.
2) Use proper English grammar and punctuation when typing.
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Azier the Swordsman - Posts: 3109
- Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:00 am
- Location: Earth
Hooah!
K. Ayato: What happens if you press the small red button?
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
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K. Ayato - Posts: 3881
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Southern California
Calm down, everyone.
Love (sometimes translated as charity) is the most important, as 1 Corinthians 13 points out. [i]And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.[/ i]
Love (sometimes translated as charity) is the most important, as 1 Corinthians 13 points out. [i]And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.[/ i]
Unwise Toasting Sermon
The Sweet Smell of CAA
The Avatar Christian Ronin designed for me
An Avatar KhakiBlue gave to me
The avatar Termyt made for me
Current Avatar by SirThinks2much - thank you very much!
:)
The Sweet Smell of CAA
The Avatar Christian Ronin designed for me
An Avatar KhakiBlue gave to me
The avatar Termyt made for me
KhakiBlueSocks wrote:"I'm going to make you a prayer request you can't refuse..." Cue the violins.
Current Avatar by SirThinks2much - thank you very much!
:)-
bigsleepj - Posts: 3432
- Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: South Africa - Oh yes, better believe it!
Geez you guys be nice...he probably just likes chat talk...Clearer sentences would be appreciated
to answer your question,
I believe that we should never hate. We should always love. We can strongly dislike something but I believe hate is too strong and as christians who are supposed to be living in the light we aren't supposed to be hating anything. What does that do after all?
to answer your question,
I believe that we should never hate. We should always love. We can strongly dislike something but I believe hate is too strong and as christians who are supposed to be living in the light we aren't supposed to be hating anything. What does that do after all?
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ChristianKitsune - Posts: 5420
- Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:00 pm
- Location: In my sketchbook of wonderment and puffy pink clouds! *\^o^/*
Like Nate said we are to hate sin. But not the person who sins.
CR, I don't see the problem with reminding him that chat talk is not appropriate for this forum and legibility is bad enough on the Internet without this kind of thing also.
CR, I don't see the problem with reminding him that chat talk is not appropriate for this forum and legibility is bad enough on the Internet without this kind of thing also.
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Warrior 4 Jesus - Posts: 4844
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:52 pm
- Location: The driest continent that isn't Antarctica.
ChristianRonin wrote:I believe that we should never hate. We should always love. We can strongly dislike something but I believe hate is too strong and as christians who are supposed to be living in the light we aren't supposed to be hating anything. What does that do after all?
Sorry, I disagree. I'm not saying we should hate people. We should never hate people, only God has the authority to hate people, since He is perfect. However, we are to be like God, and we are to bear the same hatred in His heart that He has toward sin.
Does that mean we should hate people who sin? No. Does that mean we should make a big deal and stuff whenever someone does sin? No. But we still are to hate sin, and hate evil. That is what we are to do, as Christians. Without hate, we cannot be what God wants us to be.
The problem is that people utilize hatred in the wrong way.
Ezekiel 23:20
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Nate - Posts: 10725
- Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: Oh right, like anyone actually cares.
We can't share our opinion if you haven't even posed a question. It just doesn't work like that. And you came on a Christian forum. Do you really expect any of us to choose hate? (lol)
God is a God of Love but he is also a God of Justice and he is Just, so in effect he is God and can't allow sin to go unchecked. It needs to be punished, we need to be punished.
Therefore that's why we need Jesus (why his message and mission is so important) - to create a blanket of salvation to cover all our sins and dispell them so we can be Christ-like (Christ in us).
God is a God of Love but he is also a God of Justice and he is Just, so in effect he is God and can't allow sin to go unchecked. It needs to be punished, we need to be punished.
Therefore that's why we need Jesus (why his message and mission is so important) - to create a blanket of salvation to cover all our sins and dispell them so we can be Christ-like (Christ in us).
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Warrior 4 Jesus - Posts: 4844
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:52 pm
- Location: The driest continent that isn't Antarctica.
I don't quite follow what you're trying to say but I'm guessing that you're wondering how can one love the very same people who misjudges them? Kinda of how Jesus was scorned by those who didn't understand/misjudged Him and yet He loved them anyway.
Considering that Lord Jesus has already shown us an example so the answer is love even when misjudged. No one ever said it would be easy to love but hey, at least, 1) it's not impossible to love in such occasions and 2) you're not the only one who feels tempted to hate certain ppl occasionally. Join the club.
Considering that Lord Jesus has already shown us an example so the answer is love even when misjudged. No one ever said it would be easy to love but hey, at least, 1) it's not impossible to love in such occasions and 2) you're not the only one who feels tempted to hate certain ppl occasionally. Join the club.
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Mave - Posts: 3662
- Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:00 am
The question seems to be an either/or type question whereas my answer would be both.
I seek to love all that is of God and hate all that is not. But to use these terms in this context, one must be very careful. You can only apply this kind of love and hate to a very specific singular instance and not to a general group or collective of things.
Let me see if I can give an example of what I am talking about. I love it when someone offers a thoughtful, kind word to me. I hate it when the same person lies to me. Both of these are healthy, reasonable, and correct responses and they are good. Neither of these feelings reflects how I feel about the person as a whole.
I love the person, to the best of my ability, because God, who is perfect, has deemed that all people – even myself – are worthy of His love. But this is a different kind of love. It is unfortunate that the English language is so limited as to have only one word for all of the different kinds of love. It is even more unfortunate that we have expanded this one word to include a whole host of things that aren’t even love (I hate that!), but I digress. The hate that would oppose this kind of love is the hate that is not of God and should be opposed at every turn.
I seek to love all that is of God and hate all that is not. But to use these terms in this context, one must be very careful. You can only apply this kind of love and hate to a very specific singular instance and not to a general group or collective of things.
Let me see if I can give an example of what I am talking about. I love it when someone offers a thoughtful, kind word to me. I hate it when the same person lies to me. Both of these are healthy, reasonable, and correct responses and they are good. Neither of these feelings reflects how I feel about the person as a whole.
I love the person, to the best of my ability, because God, who is perfect, has deemed that all people – even myself – are worthy of His love. But this is a different kind of love. It is unfortunate that the English language is so limited as to have only one word for all of the different kinds of love. It is even more unfortunate that we have expanded this one word to include a whole host of things that aren’t even love (I hate that!), but I digress. The hate that would oppose this kind of love is the hate that is not of God and should be opposed at every turn.
[color="Red"]Please visit Love146.org[/color]
A member of the Society of Hatted Members
If your pedantic about grammar, its unlikely that you'll copy and paste this into your sig, to.
A member of the Society of Hatted Members
If your pedantic about grammar, its unlikely that you'll copy and paste this into your sig, to.
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termyt - Posts: 4289
- Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: oHIo
Wow. To be perfectly honest, I could care less if Matx has bad grammar. What I care about is that you guys treat him well, no matter what. Many of your responses were highly uncalled for. If you don't understand the question, ask him to clarify, don't grill him for his poor grammar. Some of you need to keep an eye on your PM box, because you will be recieving a PM on the matter.
Be Thou my Vision, O Lord of my heart;
Naught be all else to me, save that Thou art
Thou my best Thought, by day or by night,
Waking or sleeping, Thy presence my light.
Be Thou my Wisdom, and Thou my true Word;
I ever with Thee and Thou with me, Lord;
Thou my great Father, I Thy true son;
Thou in me dwelling, and I with Thee one.
Be Thou my battle Shield, Sword for the fight;
Be Thou my Dignity, Thou my Delight;
Thou my soul’s Shelter, Thou my high Tower:
Raise Thou me heavenward, O Power of my power.
Riches I heed not, nor man’s empty praise,
Thou mine Inheritance, now and always:
Thou and Thou only, first in my heart,
High King of Heaven, my Treasure Thou art.
High King of Heaven, my victory won,
May I reach Heaven’s joys, O bright Heaven’s Sun!
Heart of my own heart, whatever befall,
Still be my Vision, O Ruler of all.
Naught be all else to me, save that Thou art
Thou my best Thought, by day or by night,
Waking or sleeping, Thy presence my light.
Be Thou my Wisdom, and Thou my true Word;
I ever with Thee and Thou with me, Lord;
Thou my great Father, I Thy true son;
Thou in me dwelling, and I with Thee one.
Be Thou my battle Shield, Sword for the fight;
Be Thou my Dignity, Thou my Delight;
Thou my soul’s Shelter, Thou my high Tower:
Raise Thou me heavenward, O Power of my power.
Riches I heed not, nor man’s empty praise,
Thou mine Inheritance, now and always:
Thou and Thou only, first in my heart,
High King of Heaven, my Treasure Thou art.
High King of Heaven, my victory won,
May I reach Heaven’s joys, O bright Heaven’s Sun!
Heart of my own heart, whatever befall,
Still be my Vision, O Ruler of all.
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Yumie - Posts: 1939
- Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:00 pm
- Location: In a house
YOU guys are Jerks! Seriosly! I mean... Puting down a fellow christian!!! I Swear!
The army of God is the only army that shoots its own dang wounded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop picking on Matx!!!!!!
I dont care if I get a strike for this!
The army of God is the only army that shoots its own dang wounded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop picking on Matx!!!!!!
I dont care if I get a strike for this!
Proof that God has a sense of humor. 
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Crimson Crusade - Posts: 28
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: Alabama (ROLL TIDE)
Matx wrote:thank you, yumie...bacicly, i was asking the members if that hate would overcome love or visa-versa
That's a difficult question. And I think ultimately hate will overcome love, and I say that because of this. God is infinitely merciful, so much so that He is willing to let us spend eternity with Him for believing in Christ. God loves humanity, all human beings, enough to sacrifice His Son on the cross.
However, God's hatred of sin is also there, and despite His infinite love for humanity, those who choose to reject His gift are lost. His love knows no limit, but His hatred for sin takes priority when it comes to someone who has rejected His gift.
But this could lead to debate, so if it does I'd prefer we didn't go down that road.
Ezekiel 23:20
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Nate - Posts: 10725
- Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: Oh right, like anyone actually cares.
Crimson Crusade wrote:YOU guys are Jerks! Seriosly! I mean... Puting down a fellow christian!!! I Swear!
The army of God is the only army that shoots its own dang wounded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop picking on Matx!!!!!!
I dont care if I get a strike for this!
Last time I checked, you were not a moderator. Why would you post something like this, after a mod has stepped in? We are trying NOT to derail the thread. Check your PMs.
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
[indent]~~Gandalf, in Fellowship of the Ring[/indent]
[indent]~~Gandalf, in Fellowship of the Ring[/indent]
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EireWolf - Posts: 2496
- Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2003 12:00 pm
- Location: the forests of northern California
?????
EireWolf wrote:Last time I checked, you were not a moderator. Why would you post something like this, after a mod has stepped in? We are trying NOT to derail the thread. Check your PMs.
???????????What wrong with what I said? The fact I said "Jerk"?
Check your PM.
Proof that God has a sense of humor.
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Crimson Crusade - Posts: 28
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: Alabama (ROLL TIDE)
Crimson Crusade, I really didn't appreciate the two very angry and immature PMs in my Inbox. You really need to grow up.
And I believe there is nothing wrong with correcting someone's grammar. I wasn't flaming him but making a point and trying to understand what he was saying.
How about you be more Christ-like too? Don't just yell abuse.
Thank you.
And I believe there is nothing wrong with correcting someone's grammar. I wasn't flaming him but making a point and trying to understand what he was saying.
How about you be more Christ-like too? Don't just yell abuse.
Thank you.
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Warrior 4 Jesus - Posts: 4844
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:52 pm
- Location: The driest continent that isn't Antarctica.
Crimson Crusade wrote:???????????What wrong with what I said? The fact I said "Jerk"?
Check your PM.
Crimson Crusade, EireWolf is a moderator. As such, she is in authority over you and you owe her your respect. I don't want to see another post like this in this thread. Can we please get back to the topic at hand?
Be Thou my Vision, O Lord of my heart;
Naught be all else to me, save that Thou art
Thou my best Thought, by day or by night,
Waking or sleeping, Thy presence my light.
Be Thou my Wisdom, and Thou my true Word;
I ever with Thee and Thou with me, Lord;
Thou my great Father, I Thy true son;
Thou in me dwelling, and I with Thee one.
Be Thou my battle Shield, Sword for the fight;
Be Thou my Dignity, Thou my Delight;
Thou my soul’s Shelter, Thou my high Tower:
Raise Thou me heavenward, O Power of my power.
Riches I heed not, nor man’s empty praise,
Thou mine Inheritance, now and always:
Thou and Thou only, first in my heart,
High King of Heaven, my Treasure Thou art.
High King of Heaven, my victory won,
May I reach Heaven’s joys, O bright Heaven’s Sun!
Heart of my own heart, whatever befall,
Still be my Vision, O Ruler of all.
Naught be all else to me, save that Thou art
Thou my best Thought, by day or by night,
Waking or sleeping, Thy presence my light.
Be Thou my Wisdom, and Thou my true Word;
I ever with Thee and Thou with me, Lord;
Thou my great Father, I Thy true son;
Thou in me dwelling, and I with Thee one.
Be Thou my battle Shield, Sword for the fight;
Be Thou my Dignity, Thou my Delight;
Thou my soul’s Shelter, Thou my high Tower:
Raise Thou me heavenward, O Power of my power.
Riches I heed not, nor man’s empty praise,
Thou mine Inheritance, now and always:
Thou and Thou only, first in my heart,
High King of Heaven, my Treasure Thou art.
High King of Heaven, my victory won,
May I reach Heaven’s joys, O bright Heaven’s Sun!
Heart of my own heart, whatever befall,
Still be my Vision, O Ruler of all.
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Yumie - Posts: 1939
- Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:00 pm
- Location: In a house
Sure does sound like hate will overpower love, doesn't it, Matx? As an old song goes, "I've read the back of the Book and we win." Even if it seems like love's losing its effect, it won't.
K. Ayato: What happens if you press the small red button?
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
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K. Ayato - Posts: 3881
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Southern California
Hate is like a poison. It's extremely powerful and deadly if not dealt with. Love is like the anti-venom. It neutrialises the effect and allows for healing to take place.
(Wow, I almost sound scientific!) lol
(Wow, I almost sound scientific!) lol
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Warrior 4 Jesus - Posts: 4844
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:52 pm
- Location: The driest continent that isn't Antarctica.
Good use of analogy there. Here's another one. Hate is like a sledgehammer or demolition ball. All it does is destory everything it comes in contact with. It'd be flippant to say love is like glue. But love doesn't just put the broken pieces back together. It also completely restores what was broken into something different and better than what it was originally.
K. Ayato: What happens if you press the small red button?
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
-
K. Ayato - Posts: 3881
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Southern California
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Warrior 4 Jesus - Posts: 4844
- Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:52 pm
- Location: The driest continent that isn't Antarctica.
No, I'm not. Moving along. Hope that answers your question, Matx.
K. Ayato: What happens if you press the small red button?
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
*Explosion goes off in the movie*
mechana2015: Does that answer your question?
K. Ayato: Perfectly.
Prayer sister of kaji, sticksabuser, Angel37, and Doubleshadow --Love you guys!
-
K. Ayato - Posts: 3881
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:00 am
- Location: Southern California
I see what you are saying, Nate, but this is a totally different circumstance. Hating Sin is completely different than hating other things.
The bible Calls for us to Never let the sun set on our anger. I think anger and hate, can be grouped together. (I am not talking abour righteous anger but like... someone saying, "ARGH I AM SO ANGRY AT THESE IMIGRANTS! I HATE THEM!!!!111" (I don't feel that way of course...but yeh you get the picture).
We should love our neighbors as we love ourselves.
Some Scriptures I found:
Leviticus 19:17
" 'Do not hate your brother in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt.
1 John 4:20
If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
John 3:20
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
1 John 2:8-10
8Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining.
9Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. 10Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him[a] to make him stumble
1 John 2:11
But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him.
Romans 12:8-10 (this back ups Nate's Statement)
8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.
(this next part is about love)
Love
9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves.
The bible Calls for us to Never let the sun set on our anger. I think anger and hate, can be grouped together. (I am not talking abour righteous anger but like... someone saying, "ARGH I AM SO ANGRY AT THESE IMIGRANTS! I HATE THEM!!!!111" (I don't feel that way of course...but yeh you get the picture).
We should love our neighbors as we love ourselves.
Some Scriptures I found:
Leviticus 19:17
" 'Do not hate your brother in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt.
1 John 4:20
If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.
John 3:20
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
1 John 2:8-10
8Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining.
9Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. 10Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him[a] to make him stumble
1 John 2:11
But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him.
Romans 12:8-10 (this back ups Nate's Statement)
8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.
(this next part is about love)
Love
9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves.
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ChristianKitsune - Posts: 5420
- Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:00 pm
- Location: In my sketchbook of wonderment and puffy pink clouds! *\^o^/*
ChristianRonin wrote:I see what you are saying, Nate, but this is a totally different circumstance. Hating Sin is completely different than hating other things.
Oh yes, I agree. And that's why we, as humans, need to be careful with hatred, because hatred is a good thing, it's just we misuse it. Also, I think people somehow see hatred as "bad." Referencing W4J's and K. Ayato's posts there, they're completely wrong. Hatred isn't a poison, and it isn't deadly, and it doesn't destroy. God has hatred, and He isn't dead, and He can't be wrong because He is holy. Therefore, hatred is indeed holy and right. It's just, like I said, and like you're saying, hatred is misused by humans.
Humans should only hate sin. Only God has the right to hate humans, not us.
[quote] 9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil]
Yep, and there's the commandment right there, we are commanded to hate, but also to love. Like I said, God is full of love AND hate; He needs both to be truly righteous, so the same is true for us as well.
But as I was saying earlier, if the question is which is going to win in the end, hate or love, it depends on what the person believed. If they followed Christ, then His love overrides his hatred for sin. If they were lost, His hatred for sin overrides His love. His hatred for sin will also cause Satan to be destroyed.
So I guess, in the end, neither really "wins," both will be adequately displayed at the end of the world and the start of the new one.
Ezekiel 23:20
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Nate - Posts: 10725
- Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: Oh right, like anyone actually cares.
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