Bleach: toughest shinigami
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Bleach: toughest shinigami
I have found that excluding Ichigo himself that Zaracki kempatchi is the only one worthy of the name toughest shinigami because he doesn't use a Bankai or shikai and he still defeats two shinigami using Bankais
- seventh circle
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What kind of criteria are we using to decide who's toughest? In terms of raw reiatsu, both Commander General Yamamoto and Aizen have been declared to have at least twice standard Captain-level, so that puts them on a very high tier. Both are presumably extremely skilled, but Aizen seems to indicate he has reached very high levels in all four arts, whereas we don't know how broad Yamamoto's skillbase is.
All of us know, of course, that Ichigo will eventually become strongest. Protagonists tend to do that. And I agree that Zaraki would become a monster if he attained Bankai (or even Shikai, which I suspect might happen).
However, if the question is who would win in a fight, that's a lot more complex and there probably isn't a single toughest character. For example, Mayuri has an extremely cheap ability. If he had been fighting almost anyone but Ishida he would have won easily.
All of us know, of course, that Ichigo will eventually become strongest. Protagonists tend to do that. And I agree that Zaraki would become a monster if he attained Bankai (or even Shikai, which I suspect might happen).
However, if the question is who would win in a fight, that's a lot more complex and there probably isn't a single toughest character. For example, Mayuri has an extremely cheap ability. If he had been fighting almost anyone but Ishida he would have won easily.
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uc pseudonym - Posts: 15506
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verry true i hadn't thought about reiatsu. i was mostly thinking about who could take the most beating and still come back.
if the world knew me they would run away so here inside myself i stay.
- seventh circle
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uc pseudonym wrote:However, if the question is who would win in a fight, that's a lot more complex and there probably isn't a single toughest character. For example, Mayuri has an extremely cheap ability. If he had been fighting almost anyone but Ishida he would have won easily.
Nah, I think Kubo could write up a way to beat him
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"My my, the cruelest lies are often told without a word; my my, the kindest truths are often spoken, never heard." Ben Folds, The Last Polka
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friend - John 15:13
"My my, the cruelest lies are often told without a word; my my, the kindest truths are often spoken, never heard." Ben Folds, The Last Polka
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friend - John 15:13
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samuraidragon - Posts: 498
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seventh circle wrote:i was mostly thinking about who could take the most beating and still come back.
I think I'll go with Zaraki, then. Not only is he extremely determined, but he seems to be tough beyond the levels of physical possibility. For example, I bet even if had been cut the way Ichigo was at the end of the Soul Society arc, he would have kept moving somehow.
samuraidragon wrote:Nah, I think Kubo could write up a way to beat him
Certainly. Ishida's was an example, they made up another one for the filler, and I can think of a variety of other counters. But you have to admit that paralysis and poison are both very cheap, especially if he employed them more secretly.
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uc pseudonym - Posts: 15506
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Like someone said, he really is a monster. I thought he might have gained shikai after his battle with Ichigo, but that really has no basis.uc pseudonym wrote:I think I'll go with Zaraki, then. Not only is he extremely determined, but he seems to be tough beyond the levels of physical possibility. For example, I bet even if had been cut the way Ichigo was at the end of the Soul Society arc, he would have kept moving somehow.
I just have to ask, are you as exited as I am that the fillers are ending in two episodes? The fillers drove me nuts, I didn't like the way they were written or anything, though I admit it got a lot better after the bount were introduced. That episode where they were caught in the musem or wherever almost made me give up Bleach.uc pseudonym wrote:Certainly. Ishida's was an example, they made up another one for the filler, and I can think of a variety of other counters. But you have to admit that paralysis and poison are both very cheap, especially if he employed them more secretly.
-マックスウェル
"My my, the cruelest lies are often told without a word; my my, the kindest truths are often spoken, never heard." Ben Folds, The Last Polka
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friend - John 15:13
"My my, the cruelest lies are often told without a word; my my, the kindest truths are often spoken, never heard." Ben Folds, The Last Polka
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friend - John 15:13
-
samuraidragon - Posts: 498
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:47 pm
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ok now im realy only up through episode 63 myself. which episodes do you count as the fillers and should be avoided?
if the world knew me they would run away so here inside myself i stay.
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Anything after 63 really. You could watch 64, but it's the beginning of the fillers. 110 is the end of the fillers, and the current episode is 108.seventh circle wrote:ok now im realy only up through episode 63 myself. which episodes do you count as the fillers and should be avoided?
-マックスウェル
"My my, the cruelest lies are often told without a word; my my, the kindest truths are often spoken, never heard." Ben Folds, The Last Polka
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friend - John 15:13
"My my, the cruelest lies are often told without a word; my my, the kindest truths are often spoken, never heard." Ben Folds, The Last Polka
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friend - John 15:13
-
samuraidragon - Posts: 498
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:47 pm
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samuraidragon wrote:I just have to ask, are you as exited as I am that the fillers are ending in two episodes? The fillers drove me nuts, I didn't like the way they were written or anything, though I admit it got a lot better after the bount were introduced. That episode where they were caught in the musem or wherever almost made me give up Bleach.
I'm more interested in the manga so it isn't that big of a deal to me, but I am glad the fillers are ending. Overall I'm disappointed by how they were done. It covers far too much of the same ground as the Soul Society arc. Also, I really expected the invented Mod-soul characters to die off before the arc ended. I guess they'll just be condemned to randomness episodes along with the rest of the minor characters.
seventh circle wrote:ok now im realy only up through episode 63 myself. which episodes do you count as the fillers and should be avoided?
Oh, I didn't realize that. A few episodes earlier and I might have spoiled the biggest plot twist in the series for you. Episode 63 is the last non-filler one, and the manga plot isn't going to begin again until 110, which hasn't aired yet. The filler is much better than some (Naruto comes to mind) but is a far cry from Kubo Tite's writing.
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uc pseudonym - Posts: 15506
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i'm thinking more of the manga because i haven't seen as much of the anime as i have read of the manga. aizen, ichimaru gin, kempatchi, and hitsugaya are my tops. however, i haven't seen aizen or ichimaru gin at full strength yet so i don't know...
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"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
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"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
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jon_jinn - Posts: 3261
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oh ok thanks. about wich episode do the fillers get interesting?
if the world knew me they would run away so here inside myself i stay.
- seventh circle
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Well, never really. You could pick up the last few, like around 100. But then it wouldn't make any sense, because it's been building from the start.
-マックスウェル
"My my, the cruelest lies are often told without a word; my my, the kindest truths are often spoken, never heard." Ben Folds, The Last Polka
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friend - John 15:13
"My my, the cruelest lies are often told without a word; my my, the kindest truths are often spoken, never heard." Ben Folds, The Last Polka
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friend - John 15:13
-
samuraidragon - Posts: 498
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:47 pm
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samuraidragon wrote:Well, never really. You could pick up the last few, like around 100. But then it wouldn't make any sense, because it's been building from the start.
gosh. the bleach anime's turning into the naruto anime. too many filler episodes and extremely overrated...
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
-
jon_jinn - Posts: 3261
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Bleach episodes 1-62 are cool. the author just had an 40 episode brain fart.
if the world knew me they would run away so here inside myself i stay.
- seventh circle
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- Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:10 pm
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Well the manga and anime resolved the Soul Society ark at the same time, therefore not leaving anything for the anime. One anime episode is a few chapters of manga, so they needed some time to have something to animate.
-マックスウェル
"My my, the cruelest lies are often told without a word; my my, the kindest truths are often spoken, never heard." Ben Folds, The Last Polka
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friend - John 15:13
"My my, the cruelest lies are often told without a word; my my, the kindest truths are often spoken, never heard." Ben Folds, The Last Polka
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friend - John 15:13
-
samuraidragon - Posts: 498
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:47 pm
- Location: Wherever they send me.
samuraidragon wrote:Well the manga and anime resolved the Soul Society ark at the same time, therefore not leaving anything for the anime. One anime episode is a few chapters of manga, so they needed some time to have something to animate.
they should've waited longer before releasing the anime series. and also, they could've just ended the anime after the soul society arc concluded. they would've had to change some things but still...
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
-
jon_jinn - Posts: 3261
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
- Location: California
it was left with too much of a lose thread to end.
if the world knew me they would run away so here inside myself i stay.
- seventh circle
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:10 pm
- Location: hidden withing myself
In defense of the Bleach fillers: they aren't as good as the manga, but at least they created one cohesive plot arc instead of pointless one or two shot episodes. Basically they say that Aizen can't use the Hogyoku for a while, and while he is waiting another group of villains shows up and handling them takes up about 40 episodes. Wait... is the filler actually longer than the Soul Society arc?
At the very least skip five episodes or so. The filler enemies aren't really introduced until around 68-70 (can't quite remember) and before that the plot is pretty pointless. You wouldn't miss much. Other than the occasional interesting episode, the filler was pretty bland until 95+, where characters start dying instead of being involved in fights that accomplish nothing.
Overall, my biggest problem with the fillers is that they have too much running around and information gathering. That's fine (though it is shonen) but for that to work it needs to be fairly intelligent, whereas this feels fairly pointless.
This is sadly the truth of Japanese television. I think it would be best if they let series rest for a year in order to allow the manga to move on, but fillers are likely to continue.
seventh circle wrote:oh ok thanks. about wich episode do the fillers get interesting?
At the very least skip five episodes or so. The filler enemies aren't really introduced until around 68-70 (can't quite remember) and before that the plot is pretty pointless. You wouldn't miss much. Other than the occasional interesting episode, the filler was pretty bland until 95+, where characters start dying instead of being involved in fights that accomplish nothing.
Overall, my biggest problem with the fillers is that they have too much running around and information gathering. That's fine (though it is shonen) but for that to work it needs to be fairly intelligent, whereas this feels fairly pointless.
samuraidragon wrote:Well the manga and anime resolved the Soul Society ark at the same time, therefore not leaving anything for the anime. One anime episode is a few chapters of manga, so they needed some time to have something to animate.
This is sadly the truth of Japanese television. I think it would be best if they let series rest for a year in order to allow the manga to move on, but fillers are likely to continue.
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uc pseudonym - Posts: 15506
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- seventh circle
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- Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:10 pm
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Pffffft Obvious Uruyu! She has like... mega-bazookas or something. 
In all seriousness, I would expect Aizen, Ichigo, Kenpachi, and Yamamoto to be the toughest.
In all seriousness, I would expect Aizen, Ichigo, Kenpachi, and Yamamoto to be the toughest.
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Mr. SmartyPants - Posts: 12541
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yeah. i forgot that ichigo's a shinigami. i was only thinking of the captains in the soul society. what about rukia? she's not a captain but when she comes back after the soul society arc, she's STRONG!! also, that one really old guy (i forgot his name). he was strong enough to fight two captains at the same time.
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
-
jon_jinn - Posts: 3261
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
- Location: California
Bah. I still insist that Rukia was poorly retconned to be somewhat strong, and hence I will assume her to be as weak as possible until proven otherwise. Currently she's proven herself to be around Vice Captain level.
As for the old guy, you're referring to Yamamoto. It's clear that most of the thread agrees with you, given how many people have listed him.
As for the old guy, you're referring to Yamamoto. It's clear that most of the thread agrees with you, given how many people have listed him.
-
uc pseudonym - Posts: 15506
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:00 am
- Location: Tanzania
uc pseudonym wrote:Bah. I still insist that Rukia was poorly retconned to be somewhat strong, and hence I will assume her to be as weak as possible until proven otherwise. Currently she's proven herself to be around Vice Captain level.
yeah. the manga is definitely inconsistant in making rukia so strong after the soul society. especially when, in the first chapter, she gets injured so easily by a weak hollow.
uc pseudonym wrote:As for the old guy, you're referring to Yamamoto. It's clear that most of the thread agrees with you, given how many people have listed him.
yamamoto. okay. i can't really keep track of all the characters' names as i haven't read much of the manga lately and there are a LOT of characters...
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
-
jon_jinn - Posts: 3261
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
- Location: California
Mr. SmartyPants wrote:Pffffft Obvious Uruyu! She has like... mega-bazookas or something.
In all seriousness, I would expect Aizen, Ichigo, Kenpachi, and Yamamoto to be the toughest.
sure Yamamoto looks tough but unless i missed something in the fillers we never actualy see him fight.
if the world knew me they would run away so here inside myself i stay.
- seventh circle
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:10 pm
- Location: hidden withing myself
His reitsu immobilized a vice-captain. I think that's proof enough. Not to mention he easily out ran Ukitake and Kyōraku.
-マックスウェル
"My my, the cruelest lies are often told without a word; my my, the kindest truths are often spoken, never heard." Ben Folds, The Last Polka
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friend - John 15:13
"My my, the cruelest lies are often told without a word; my my, the kindest truths are often spoken, never heard." Ben Folds, The Last Polka
No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friend - John 15:13
-
samuraidragon - Posts: 498
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:47 pm
- Location: Wherever they send me.
seventh circle wrote:sure Yamamoto looks tough but unless i missed something in the fillers we never actualy see him fight.
i don't know about the anime but in the manga he fights once and it's against two captains. i don't even think that he was using all of his power in that fight.
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
-
jon_jinn - Posts: 3261
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
- Location: California
samurai: Just cause he can imobilize a vice captain and out run those two doesn't mean he's all that powerfull. And that vice captain we have no clue how strong she is. All we ever see her do is get stuff and keep track of stuff for Ukitake? Kyōraku? one of those two i can't remember which.
if the world knew me they would run away so here inside myself i stay.
- seventh circle
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:10 pm
- Location: hidden withing myself
[quote="seventh circle"]samurai: Just cause he can imobilize a vice captain and out run those two doesn't mean he's all that powerfull. And that vice captain we have no clue how strong she is. All we ever see her do is get stuff and keep track of stuff for Ukitake? Kyō]
we haven't even seen his full strength yet. for all we know, he could be as strong as aizen...
we haven't even seen his full strength yet. for all we know, he could be as strong as aizen...
[SIZE="4"]*FASTING FROM CAA (9/25/08 - ???)*[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
"Sometimes we don't present the Gospel well enough for the non-elect to reject it."
- John MacArthur
"In the total expanse of the human life, there is not a single square inch of which Christ, who alone is sovereign, does not declare, 'That is mine'."
- Abraham Kuyper
"God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy."
- Westminister Confession of Faith (Chapter 5, Section 1)
"The wisdom of God has found a way for the love of God to deliver sinners from the wrath of God all the while upholding the righteousness of God!!"
- John Piper
"Grace is the pleasure of God to magnify the worth of God by giving sinners the right and power to delight in God without obscuring the glory of God!"
-John Piper
"The very One from Whom we need to be saved, is the One Who has saved us."
- R.C. Sproul
"All of Christian life is ceaseless worship of God the Father, through the mediatorship of God the Son, by the indwelling power of God the Spirit, doing what God commands in Scripture, not doing what God forbids in Scripture, in culturally contextualized ways, for the furtherance of the Gospel, when both gathered for adoration, and scattered for action, in joyous response to God's glorious grace."
- Mark Driscoll
"Believers do not pray with the view of informing God about things unknown to Him, or of exciting Him to do His duty, or of urging Him as though He were reluctant. On the contrary, they pray in order that they may arouse themselves to seek Him, that they may exercise their faith in meditating on His promises, that they may relieve themselves from their anxieties by pouring them into His bosom; in a word, that they may declare that from Him alone they hope and expect, both for themselves and for others, all good things."
- Martin Luther
"I have to tell you first that I am ready to die. I have put my affairs in order. Your supreme weapon is killing. My supreme weapon is dying, because when you kill me, people all over Romania will read my books and believe on the God that I preach - even more than they do now."
- Dr. Joseph Ton, the exiled Romanian pastor (quoted by James Montgomery Boice)
"The best prayer I ever prayed had enough sin in it to condemn the whole world."
- John Bunyan
"If the Christian has lost sight of Calvary, that shows that he has lost his way."
- J.I. Packer[/SIZE]
-
jon_jinn - Posts: 3261
- Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:49 pm
- Location: California
[quote="seventh circle"]samurai: Just cause he can imobilize a vice captain and out run those two doesn't mean he's all that powerfull. And that vice captain we have no clue how strong she is. All we ever see her do is get stuff and keep track of stuff for Ukitake? Kyō]
Reiatsu is a good measure of one's strength. Think about it. He isn't 1st Division Captain for no reason now is he?
Reiatsu is a good measure of one's strength. Think about it. He isn't 1st Division Captain for no reason now is he?
-
Mr. SmartyPants - Posts: 12541
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:00 am
About Yamamoto's strength: it seems to me that though Nanao likely isn't very strong, she would be a decent judge of reiatsu levels. She says that even with two Captains vs Yamamoto she's not sure they could win, and though I think she's slightly overestimating him due to the fact that he almost wiped her out with aura alone, it seems obvious to me that he's at about the two of them put together.
As we've seen, reiatsu translates directly to strength and often to speed. Given how old Yamamoto is (and the fact that he trained basically all the other Captains) we can also assume that he is highly skilled at least in swordplay and movement. All Captains have Bankai and his sword has already been declared to have the highest offensive power, so we know he's dangerous on that account.
Overall, I think it's pretty clear that he's one of the top shinigami in Bleach. However, I hesitate to compare him to Aizen because we've never seen either of them go all out. But Aizen has proven that he has high levels of kidou and other arts that Yamamoto hasn't, so we don't know if this versitality would make a different.
As we've seen, reiatsu translates directly to strength and often to speed. Given how old Yamamoto is (and the fact that he trained basically all the other Captains) we can also assume that he is highly skilled at least in swordplay and movement. All Captains have Bankai and his sword has already been declared to have the highest offensive power, so we know he's dangerous on that account.
Overall, I think it's pretty clear that he's one of the top shinigami in Bleach. However, I hesitate to compare him to Aizen because we've never seen either of them go all out. But Aizen has proven that he has high levels of kidou and other arts that Yamamoto hasn't, so we don't know if this versitality would make a different.
-
uc pseudonym - Posts: 15506
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:00 am
- Location: Tanzania
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