Which anime Characters are Christian?

[Heart of Sword]

I don't think it was on the final episode.

Ah...I REMEMBER!!!

"People who sin say this: That they had to, to survive. People who sin say this: That it's too late to stop. The shadow called Sin dogs them steadily without a word. Remorse and Agony are repeated, to finally end up at Despair. But sinners don't know... that if they turn around, there is a light... a light which keeps shining on them every so warmly."

[JasonPratt]

(Note: rumination on Rurouni will have to be postponed until tomorrow; medical crisis in the family.)

Would that be from the 'next time' dialogue Vash gives for the ep after his showdown with Legato? It's been a while since I listened to those--I usually skip them when showing it to someone else, in order to avoid spoilers--but that would seem the most appropriate place. (Trying to avoid spoilage here for those who haven't watched the series that far. And gosh, you do owe it to yourself to go rent the DVD and watch the final showdown with Knives, Chris. Er, Christis... {g} Nice pun there, btw.)

The Trigun finale reminds me, that Millie was likely either a Christian already, or became one thanks to Wolfwood. ("That's because it's so full of mercy!" --dang, I want to cry whenever I hear her say that... It is _SO_ perfect as a lead-in to the final episode. "She does everything I can't do... just like it was no trouble at all." Yep, felt that way, too, about someone I've loved and admired. {s})

[CAAOutkast]

[quote="JasonPratt"](Note: rumination on Rurouni will have to be postponed until tomorrow]

That reminds me,Rem also acted like a christian as well.

[JasonPratt]

True, though in her case it's hard to say whether that comes from her being formally a Christian, or from working with the Holy Spirit anyway (and being inspired thereby to act in ways _we_ would recognize as faithful cooperation with God in Christ.) Much of what happens in anime, as in real life, can be attributed to the latter.

Still, I doubt it's any coincidence that when Rem faces down the man with the gun (being vague here to avoid potential spoilers for those who haven't watched or gotten that far), she's quite literally _becoming_ a cross. (As does another character afterward, with specific comparison being drawn back to Rem thereby.)

PS: medical crisis turned out to be onset of arthritis, it seems; which isn't great, but it's a whole heck of a lot better than a coronary event, which it could easily have been for this person (my Dad. {s})

[mitsuki lover]

Rem was one of the best known pacifists in anime.Though wheter or not she was
a Quaker or any other type of Christian I don't believe was revealed in Trigun.What was significant is that Vash tried to live by what she had taught him.

[JasonPratt]

Quaker! Hadn't thought of that... I'll be watching that ep again in a couple of weeks, and thinking along that line. It has some definite strengths to it.

(Note: looks like Rurouni ruminations will be postponed until tomorrow now, too. {s} No medical crisis this time, at least.)

[JasonPratt]

Rurouni Ruminations Part 2 of 2 (finally {g})

I will suppose that the various Christian parallels and hints normally associated with the series have been discussed to death already in this forum; so for (relative) brevity's sake, I won't necessarily list through them all again here. (If for some reason someone actually wants this, go ahead and ask--I expect long-time members, of whom I am not one, will point to earlier threads. Or I can work up a list. {shrug})


The evidence as it is, tends to leave perceptive viewers in a bit of a pickle; there seems to be more substantial Christian undercurrents than in other anime, and yet it doesn't seem that Kenshin is a Christian. (Certainly not in the way that the heroine of Witch Hunter Robin is, for instance.)

My thesis, established in my previous entry (concerning the 3rd Season Heretic arc) is that Kenshin is actually a _hidden_ Christian, who was raised that way by first his family and then (providentially?) by Sejuro Hiko, his teacher of the Hiten Mitsurugi style.

(I will add here that it is even more difficult to decide whether the story logic points this way inadvertently, or by some kind of conscious/unconscious design on the part of the manga's author. While I would have to consider the author's opinion to be paramount, I am not unsympathetic to story logic pointing in directions unintended by the author. As an editor, I see it happen with some frequency--including in my own work from time to time! {g!})


This notion of _hidden_ Christianity is important to grasp as a historical factor, which is why I chose to first discuss a clear example by reference to the 3rd Season Heretic arc. In a Japanese 'hidden Christianity' situation, we may expect most (even if not all) of the following characteristics:

1.) the person may hold to doctrines and expressions which neither we, nor the persons around them, would be likely to _directly_ recognize as 'Christian'; and yet they may resonate with other Christians in a way meaningful _as_ Christianity.

2.) the person will not be likely to 'witness' or 'evangelize' in the fashion to which we are accustomed; yet may be living a life of Christian witness anyway (in various fashions).

3.) the person _may not even recognize_ that what he himself is doing and/or thinking, is of Christian extraction, per se.


These results would be proceeding from historical factors actually operant in Japan during both the Tokugawa _and_ the Meiji Era. Those factors are a combination of lethal persecution of Christians by a culture-dictative government; and isolation from the kind of larger groups we would typically identify as a 'church', _especially_ cultural isolation from authoritative guidance. Forced to live in secrecy rivaling (or even exceeding!) the worst of Imperial Roman persecution, unable to make reinforcing contact with other groups, and needing to live their beliefs in ways that would not mark them for destruction, the Christians of Japan _did_ in historical fact develop doctrines and methodologies that rendered them safer from persecution and extinction _but also_ rendered them less recognizeable to Christians more in touch with apostolic tradition.


The hypothesis, then, is this: Shinta Himura (before he was adopted by Sejuro Hiko) was strongly influenced as a boy by a group of hidden Christians. The only known candidates would be his parents, who died of cholera (note the parallel eventually to the 3rd Season heir to the Hiten Mitsurugi style, who with his sister is suffering tuberculosis); or one (or more) of the three young women who had been sold into slavery with him. The parents would make more sense, I suppose, since the three young women had only known him for a day before they were killed by bandits (plus a further detail to be mentioned later). Whoever it was, they impressed the young boy enough that he spent a number of days (3 days?) after Hiko kills the bandits, burying everyone in graves--including the bandits and slavers! (This is something Hiko remarks upon in surprise; he had been intending to bury only the slavers.) All the graves, except for the three sisters, are notably marked by crosses; the sisters are buried under simple stones, according to Shinto and/or Buddhist traditions in Japan.

In this hypothesis, Shinta would have probably been taught by his parents to seek out other Christians among good people, if separated from his parents; but to do so in coded ways so as to protect himself. Thus he would have tried to follow his parents' instruction with the only 'nice' people in the caravan, the three young women who tried to protect him. Discovering they were Shintoists/Buddhists, he thus buries them according to what he knows would have been their wishes.


Sejuro Hiko, meanwhile, is the heir to a style of swordfighting intended to help protect the innocent while staying independent of all earthly powers. The name of the discipline, Hiten Mitsurugi, wouldn't sound suspicious to Japanese hearers; but can be interpreted as having some distant trinitarian links. (Highest Heaven Triple Dragon??--help here anyone?) Originally, then, (per this hypothesis), it was developed by a Christian (the original Sejuro Hiko), but by Hiko's day he may or may not still retain explicit knowledge of the Christian connections. (Note, however, that if the 3rd Season Heretic arc is accepted as canonical, there would be more of a direct link between the style and an actual Church somewhere.)

There is a distinct tension in the series, to the effect of questioning which man is better fulfilling the role of Hiten Mitsurugi practitioner in Japan, Hiko or Kenshin (as Hiko renames him). Hiko sometimes seems bitter about how the sword can only be used to kill people, and (aside from plot convenience! {g}) he has no obvious reason for staying in seclusion other than to keep down the death toll should he operate openly. Even when major problems arise, such as the various wars of the Meiji Revolution, or Shishio's hidden rebellion against the state, Hiko seems strongly but strangely determined to keep from using the style to actually save and protect the innocent.

At the same time, he seems quite right when he intuits that if Kenshin joins the war he will only make things worse (including for himself) instead of better.

Yet again, when Kenshin is given the reverse-bladed sword, he is now in a position to make use of the Hiten style in a fashion that allows him to have mercy on his enemies: a key theme in his actions for the rest of his series, to which his days as a manslayer are contrasted. (Fun but surely incidental trivia note: when Christ says of Satan that he was a murderer from the beginning--the word for murderer literally means the same thing as hitokiri, person-cutter.) This fits in well with Kenshin being the true heir of the Hiten Mitsurugi, completing the intentions of the style's original master.


By linking Kenshin with the historical reality of secret Christianity in Japan, numerous themes can be synched up within the work (even when the details must be considered accidental on the face of it--such as the cross-shaped scar on Kenshin's face, for instance {g}; though it is notably on the correct cheek, by the way... everyone knows what that means, yes? {secret g!}); while _also_ explaining _from within the story_ why his behaviors don't seem to mesh up very well with the Christianity _we_ would be expecting (for instance his lack of theology, or his attempts at 'atonement by works' as we would say.) It makes thematic sense for Kenshin to always be seeking not only to have mercy on his enemies but to redeem them as well (something culturally alien to almost everyone he meets--except Hiko himself and perhaps Kaoru!); and it makes his showdown with Shishio (who _VERY_ overtly represents social Darwinism) more meaningful, too.

[mitsuki lover]

I don't think Kenshin's attitude and actions necessarily make him a Christian secret or otherwise.He might just as well be a devout Buddhist for all we know or are told about his background.

[GhostontheNet]

Yeah,Awsome isn't it?

I thought so. As a Christian and a goth who heavily empathises and shares similarities with Robin, Witch Hunter Robin was definitely a series I really enjoyed on so many levels.

[mitsuki lover]

They used a lot of Christian references in WHR.For example Robin in one episode states she goes to a certain chapel every day to pray.Also there are the references throughout of Robin having been raised in a monastary.
Shows like WHR and Trinity Blood and Chrono Crusade would be among the easiest because they take place within a Catholic context or have at least one character who is at least nominally Catholic.
My point about Kenshin was that you can't always base wheter or not a character is Christian merely by their actions.

[GhostontheNet]

They used a lot of Christian references in WHR.For example Robin in one episode states she goes to a certain chapel every day to pray.Also there are the references throughout of Robin having been raised in a monastary.

In Witch Hunter Robin though, the actual situation is more subtle than that. When she is asked early on whether she believes in God she says she does the prayers and such as a matter of habit, deeply akin to her scrubbing of her apartment floors. Nevertheless, she appears to have come to real faith by the end of the series, which I conjecture would probably have began sometime after the major incident halfway through that changes everything.

[JasonPratt]

I don't think Kenshin's attitude and actions necessarily make him a Christian secret or otherwise.He might just as well be a devout Buddhist for all we know or are told about his background.

One of the reasons that the dissertation was so long (and in two parts {g}), was that I _agree_ his attitude and action don't _necessarily_ make him a Christian, secret or otherwise. It wasn't an attempt to prove he is certainly a Christian; or even to prove anything, really. {s} The attempt was only to illustrate how accounting for a historical detail can help reconcile the data in a particular direction. It wasn't intended to be exclusive of other options. (Otherwise I wouldn't have emphasized so many qualifications _against_ the thesis, such as the author's own opinion on the topic, if he has one, which he very well may.)

[Animus Seed]

[quote="JasonPratt"]

The hypothesis, then, is this: Shinta Himura (before he was adopted by Sejuro Hiko) was strongly influenced as a boy by a group of hidden Christians. The only known candidates would be his parents, who died of cholera (note the parallel eventually to the 3rd Season heir to the Hiten Mitsurugi style, who with his sister is suffering tuberculosis)]

And the evidence that supports this hypothesis is...?

[JasonPratt]

And the evidence that supports this hypothesis is...?

You actually want _MORE_ overanalysis?!? {goggling}

I'll try to come up with something later.

[Animus Seed]

You actually want _MORE_ overanalysis?!?

Check the "Is FMA alright for Christians" thread. I'm guilty, too.

[rocklobster]

In the first volume of Please Save My Earth, we see Alice praying to God for Rin to be OK. I don't really know if she counts as a Christian, especially since
[spoiler]She's the reincarnation of an alien who worshipped an alien deity.[/spoiler]

[CAAOutkast]

In Witch Hunter Robin though, the actual situation is more subtle than that. When she is asked early on whether she believes in God she says she does the prayers and such as a matter of habit, deeply akin to her scrubbing of her apartment floors. Nevertheless, she appears to have come to real faith by the end of the series, which I conjecture would probably have began sometime after the major incident halfway through that changes everything.

That's Cool. I Like WHR.

[mitsuki lover]

Perhaps we read too much into things when we see a character pray or talk about belief in God.One can do those things and even read the Bible and still not be a
Christian.Also sometimes the translators will subsitute more familiar English terms for Japanese terms that might end up confusing the viewer.For example the word
Salvation has come up several times in Inuyasha,but the Buddhist conception is entirely different from the Christian concept.What a Buddhist means by Salvation is simply that they have finally been able to get beyond the endless cycle of karma that includes death and reincarnation.

[JasonPratt]

That's a good point. (Oh... been out of the office for a while, and lots of catching up to do, so another overanalysis of Kenshin won't be appearing soon. Maybe later. {g})

In the (old?) dub of Giant Robo, for instance, the Taoist hero is shown praying to God for aid against the Eye of Volger (as they watch it attack Paris); but I'm pretty sure that's an Englishism. (The funeral for Dr. Shizuma would be more interesting to check on, since he _is_ in fact being buried in a casket with a Christian cross; and in the old dub, at least, the chief is giving a eulogy which sounds like it's borrowing from Johannine language. There isn't an obvious disparity there. Can anyone give a report from the new dub and/or the original language for comparison?)

[Joshua Christopher]

Unless it is specifically stated, I really doubt any anime characters are Christian, in general. Christianity is not very well-known or commonly practiced in Japan.

And I think we're all forgetting something here: Just because a character expresses good morals doesn't mean they're Christian. Pretty much every major religion (like, for example, Buddhism) follow a lot of the same morals.

[quote="Buddhist Ideas"]1. Right Viewpoint - Realizing the Four Noble Truths
2. Right Values - Commitment to mental and ethical growth in moderation
3. Right Speech - One speaks in a non hurtful, not exaggerated, truthful way
4. Right Actions - Wholesome action, avoiding action that would hurt others
5. Right Livelihood - One's job does not harm in any way oneself or others]

[quote="Shintoist Ideas"]1. Tradition and the family: The family is seen as the main mechanism by which traditions are preserved. Their main celebrations relate to birth and marriage.
2. Love of nature: Nature is sacred]


Obviously some of those conflict with Christian beliefs, but on a whole, many of them match up. Moral ideas are common in most religions, and many of them are the same.

As I've said, Christianity is not a major religion in Japan. Just because an author uses a character and calls that character Christian doesn't mean the author has some deep moral background, or believes in Christ.

Essentially, what I'm trying to say, is that unless it is stated that the Character is a Christian, he or she isn't. Even if he or she shows a lot of Christian ideas, do not make the assumption that the character is a Christian.

[JasonPratt]

{{Essentially, what I'm trying to say, is that unless it is stated that the Character is a Christian, he or she isn't.}}

I think that's going a little overboard; since, if it was applied _as_ a principle, we'd have to say that something like 99% of the characters in anime are _not_ Buddhist, Shintoist, Taoist, animist, atheist, or even agnostic--since it is never positively stated that they are any of these things--_even if_ he or she shows _a lot of_ ideas that would fit into one of these groups.


Of course, being fictional characters, none of them actually exist (aside from ones based on actual historical characters, like Hajime Saito, and even then it is frequently unclear how much creative license has gone into their representation--though unless the story is supposed to be historical that would seem to be 'a lot' {g}); so in that sense, we could up the percentage to 100%: no anime character is Christian, or Buddhist, or agnostic, or anything else, no matter how much they may show ideas, no matter what is outright stated about or by them in the material, no matter even what the author states is the truth about them (within the context of their story).

However, since we are enjoying them as fictional characters, I think we have some reasonable leeway to be charitable and fair toward them as fictional characters, and to think the best of them that we can. That does admittedly require and involve careful qualification, including a distinction between what can be proven and what can be estimated (or even only speculated). It would, for example, be ridiculous to even speculate that any of the characters in _Legend of Crystania_ or _Heroic Legend of Arislan_ are Christians, because the settings themselves strictly preclude it, aside from which there is zero even circumstantial data to speculate about.

I mention Arislan as a specific case in point, since there is a group in that story which is clearly intended by the author to be an analogue to a fundamentalistic monotheistic sect; it doesn't require much imagination to put this together with their visual design to see the author critiquing a version of behavior he has seen 'Christians' doing. Strictly speaking, though, they aren't Christian. They're whatever-they-are-in-that-story. If we accept the obvious intent of the author for these to be analogues, though, then we can debate further about to what extent they may or may not accurately represent this or that kind of 'Christianity'.


I have a special perspective on this sort of thing, because as a Christian author myself I write stories about people who cannot (due to story details) be considered Christian in any strict sense: they know nothing of any Incarnation by God as a sacrifice for our sins in atonement with us; the history of their culture is such that they would not have even the Judaic notion of a King Messiah. (The closest they could come in that regard would be the notion of an anointed one sent by God in a fashion loosely similar to the pre-regent Judaic idea of a judge.) Nevertheless, I would not consider it ridiculous or a waste of time for readers to discuss among themselves which characters are behaving in a Christian or anti-Christian way, to this or that extent, or in this or that situation.


On the other hand, it is far from impossible (even if it has some a priori improbability, due to the circumstances) for a character in _Rurouni Kenshin_ to be actually Christian, in some reasonably identifiable way: the story is set in a historical time and place where Christians did exist, in a historical link to the Christianity we recognize and accept as a historical reality. One of the interesting and suggestive qualifiers to this situation, is that even in real life the Christians of that time and place would not necessarily look or behave like Christians to us, due to their historical circumstances, _and_ would be strongly inclined not to be overt even in that (in order to avoid lethal persecution). This opens up avenues, within the story, that are not always available for consideration elsewhere.

Then again, as I have said, the author's own opinion in the matter, where he has one, must in fairness be given priority and factored into the account. Yet again (again! {g}), a human story can easily exceed the invention and intent of the human author, by appeal (metaphorically speaking) to the Author of all internal logic.

I am frequently on the lookout for such things in my own work, as a way of cooperation with God in what I do. I did not originally intend, myself, for such-n-such a character to be an idiot, for instance--but lo and behold, I discover that he is! {wry g} So, can I work with this revelation, which would be the ideal result; or does my discovery of this mean I need to go back and do rewriting? After prayer and contemplation, I decide his idiocy on this point helps create a better story than what I can see of the alternative, and so I continue in gratitude to God.


Now, this is me, and what I do, as a Christian, in cooperation with the Holy Spirit, according to what light I can see and know to follow. Other people don't have some of my advantages; yet that doesn't mean the Holy Spirit isn't working in them, nor that they are not cooperating with the HS according to what little they themselves can see--and maybe, in that proportion, moreso than I am! (This would be the principle of the widow's mites, which I am careful to observe whenever I am tempted to think about how great I am as a Christian writer... {self-critical g})

This sort of activity, among non-Christians, has long been recognized and honored in many Christian circles under the term 'preparatio evangelica'. It is, quite literally, a blessed miracle of God, among other things.


And I think that this is what we are doing here, when we are considering what the authors in this genre are themselves doing. We are earnestly and charitably seeking to appreciate the work of the Holy Spirit as a miracle of God, among people we would not normally expect such a thing. I am (or would be) actually _MORE_ impressed by what happens in RK, if it turned out (as I expect is true) that Nobihiro Watsuki (I recall this is the full name of the story's auteur) is _not_ 'a Christian'. That means the result, however far it may go, is even _more_ of a miracle.

I mean, pfft... so what if _I_ manage to do something Christianly nifty in a work? That is only a minimal expectation! But for, let us say, an agnostic with paganistic leanings to arrive at anything honorably _like_ a Christian point, is a miracle of God; and moreover, I believe, something for me to appreciate and honor, including in her favor personally. If a friend of mine gives all of what little two cents she has, why should I in my riches _not_ fall on my face and give glory to God for what He is working with her?!

This same charity, I extend to others, including gladly in anime, wherever I can find it.

(Which, I suspect, is why there is a Christian Anime Alliance in the first place... )

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Hey, that's Jason. I was going to say something along those lines. Not so eloquently and as detailed though.

To Christisright: Does it really matter?

[CAAOutkast]

Hey, that's Jason. I was going to say something along those lines. Not so eloquently and as detailed though.

To Christisright: Does it really matter?

Well,Not really. I was just curious that's all.

[CAAOutkast]

any more? No? well,I guess thats it. Oh,and don't forget to visit my other thread at: http://www.christiananime.net/showthread.php?t=35048. 'till next time.


God Bless,
Steve

[CAAOutkast]

Catholics:
Robin Senna(Witch Hunter Robin)
Father Abel Nightroad(Trinity Blood)
that's all I know for sure.

Haruka Ten'ou/Sailor Uranus might also be a Christian. She wears a cross most of the time.

[MorwenLaicoriel]

Haruka Ten'ou/Sailor Uranus might also be a Christian. She wears a cross most of the time.

I'm guessing she's probably not....cross necklaces are just basically a fashion thing in Japan. Plus...I think the character is homosexual as well, isn't she?

[CAAOutkast]

I'm guessing she's probably not....cross necklaces are just basically a fashion thing in Japan. Plus...I think the character is homosexual as well, isn't she?

Yes she is,But like a True Christian I look past that and continue to be her fan. BTW,I have heard rumors that Usagi/Sailor Moon is a Christian in the Mangas and that the Creator of Sailor Moon{Naoko Takeuchi}is a Christian as well. I wonder if they're true? I hope they are. If not,then I'll make Sailor Moon a Christian in my upcoming Fanfic.

[Nate]

BTW,I have heard rumors that Usagi/Sailor Moon is a Christian in the Mangas

Considering her best friend is a Shinto priestess, she has been shown praying at that Shinto shrine, and she sleeps with Mamoru when they're not married, I'd say odds are she's Shinto or non-religious like most people in Japan. There is zero evidence of Usagi's religious beliefs in the manga. You might as well say she's a Hinduist, there's nothing to contradict it.

and that the Creator of Sailor Moon{Naoko Takeuchi}is a Christian as well.

Considering she portrayed the Messiah was a human female, her beliefs in reincarnation (which is anti-Christian), and her views on the afterlife expressed in the manga, it's obvious she at least was not Christian when she wrote Sailor Moon. Also, according to a fan website:

"The report that she is Christian, is most likely false. She was officially married in a Shinto shrine."

As for Haruka, her homosexuality combined with her views on life point her to be staunchly non-Christian. By views on life I mean her willingness to kill anyone, even the woman she loves, to achieve her goal, her refusal to believe in redemption for people, and even rebelling against her queen. Homosexuality aside, these beliefs aren't particularly compatible with Christianity.

As Morwen said, the cross is a fashion symbol. Ever seen kids in America wearing Yin-Yang symbols? Do you think those kids are Chinese philosophers? No, they just think it looks cool. To Japan the cross is a symbol that just "looks cool" and hardly ever (if ever) has Christian significance attached to it.

[MorwenLaicoriel]

Yes she is,But like a True Christian I look past that and continue to be her fan.

Oh yes, I know. I wasn't saying you can't be her fan--one of my favorite voice actors is homosexual, for example--I just meant I felt that the character wasn't a Christian.

[CAAOutkast]

Oh yes, I know. I wasn't saying you can't be her fan--one of my favorite voice actors is homosexual, for example--I just meant I felt that the character wasn't a Christian.

which VA is that? oh, and i think you might've been right about the whole "Crucifix = Cool Japanese Fashion Accessory" thing.