"Turn the other cheek" .. should it be taken literally?

[JediSonic]

Today at church the priest read the part of the gospel where it says to love you enemies, pray for those who treat you badly, turn the other cheek, etc. The priest also said that this does not mean that you should just sit around and let yourself be abused.

Although that last statement seems pretty obvious, the problem I have is this: why would Jesus say stuff like "if someone steals your coat give him your cloak also" if that were the case?


Right now I'm going under the assumption that Jesus meant its better to turn the other cheek than to fight, but its better to get away than to do that. Is that what you guys think? People sure talked funny 2000 years ago... lol

[Shao Feng-Li]

The problem I have is, why would Jesus say stuff like "if someone steals your coat give him your cloak also" if that were the case?

maybe it meens being kind to them any way. You know either it will change them or only heap coals on their heads. Or if they got a weapon just ive him everything. perhaps if he stealls your coat, but is someday liviing on the steets in the cold, give him your coat.

Today at church the priest read the part of the gospel whee it says to love you enemies, pray for those who treat you badly, turn the other cheek, etc. The priest also said that this does not mean that you should just sit around and let yourself be abused

maybe it means like "sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me."

[Shinja]

but do not resist an evil person. if some one strikes you on the right cheek trun to him the other ~ matthew:5:39

in this verse he speaks of a strike on the right cheek which would be a back handed strike with the right hand, and therfore not one ment to cause physical harm but more as a sighn of disgrace. so i view this as do not strike back anyone who hurts your honor, or wounds you verbaly. but when it come to phiscial harm, that is if some one is trying to kill you, that is totally differant.

then jesus said to them, "when I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing" they answered. He said to them, "but now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you dont have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. ~Luke 22:35-36

why would he instruct his desiples to carry swords, if they were not ment to use them for thier protection. that is why i believe we are to protect our lives and the lives of others. but yet, be restrined and slow to anger, when we are atacked verbaly, or spritualy.

[Shao Feng-Li]

okay i can lie with waht shinja said

[Hitokiri]

Shinja seemed pretty dead on with what he said but I owuld like to add one thing. I think what it's trying to say basically is to try to do what Christ would do (wwjd). I don't think if someone stole from Jesus, he would deck the guy int he face and force him to give him back. Show your enemy compassion and the enemy may show compassion back

[Bobtheduck]

Hmm... I think defending yourself is one thing, but I believe in defending others. In other words, "hate your own life" is like you don't care what people say about you, or what people do to you period, but you do care what happens to other people. You won't defend yourself from attack, but if someone is hurting someone else, you protect them.

people sure talked funny 2000 years ago

Well, considering they spoke greek and not english... I mean, I can't exactly understand direct translations from japanese either... There's a lot you have to take into consideration. Basically what the "turn the other cheek" is, it's a stand against selfishness and revenge. Vengeance just fuels more vengeance, and it doesn't heal anything. That's why I love martial arts, because you can actually use just enough and just the right kind of force to stop a fight...

We do not need to stand up to defend our reputation or even our bodies. We need to think first of the others, including those who are attacking us.

[cbwing0]

Although that last statement seems pretty obvious, the problem I have is this: why would Jesus say stuff like "if someone steals your coat give him your cloak also" if that were the case?

That is also in the context of, "If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles" (Matthew 5:41). In that time, a Roman centurion could force a person to carry their supplies for one mile, but after that, they were free to leave; so, going the extra mile would presumably accomplish a number of things:

-You would find favor with the ruling authorities, and also show obedience to the government in a way that does not force you to deny God.

-You would impress the particular centurion, possibly making him more receptive to the gospel.

-You would show that something probably done out of spite was not in fact loathsome: "If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you" (Proverbs 25:21-22).

Obviously there is more to it than just being a humble and cheerful giver.

[JediSonic]

You know, its really awesome to be able to come here and get the theological input of people like Shinja and Cbwing0!

Like, that centurion thing, or the back-handed disgracing slap.... I could have lived my life without ever knowing about that stuff! lol

In other words, thanks guys -- asking questions is how you learn, but getting the right answers requires good teachers

In other words, "hate your own life" is like you don't care what people say about you, or what people do to you period, but you do care what happens to other people.

While I agree that certainly, others should come first in the mind of a perfect christian, 'hate' is a strong word. To love your neighbor as yourself, you must first learn to love yourself. In other words, a suicidal would be hard-pressed to give anyone good spiritual help.

[Ashley]

I would like to point something out here. While I think it's awesome you guys are able to help each other grow in Christ...we do not want to replace your church or your local pastors. They are there for your spiritual guidance and, with the exception of Reverend Doc, probably more knowledgable in the faith than anyone here on site. But again, I'm not saying "oh stop making threads like this"--they prove to me a mature discussion can be carried on here--I'm just saying keep it in perspective. Those guys aren't just there at your church for a paycheck...they are there to help guide ya.

anyway, with something to think about this is your friendly neighborhood shepherdess.

[Shinja]

i would also like to add, what ever i say and quote or anyone else says, go look it up your self, cause we all make mistakes and we may be wrong, and reading it your self will let God show you whats right.

[Htom Sirveaux]

I know a little kid who put this theory to the test once. He had had a bit of a bully problem at school. The bully hit him with a right hook. He "turned the other cheek" and, sure enough, got hit again. Funny thing though, after that the bully never bothered him again. Exactly why is beyond me for sure.

[Bobtheduck]

Whenever I hear "Turn the other Cheek" I think of a scene from To End All Wars

BTW, that "hate your own life" is a quote from Jesus, though I admit that it and other like quotes must be taken in context of both surrounding text and speaking style. I was trying to explain what I thought that quote meant.

[JediSonic]

Ashley, I think what the other's said goes more along the lines of helping a younger chrsitian understand what the pastor was saying than 'taking his place'. Still, you have a very good point.

[uc pseudonym]

I have a lot to say on this subject, but I won't. It's somewhat of a major issue for me, but I'll keep silent.

In fact, I'd suggest leaving this alone, as it is basically a theological argument waiting to happen. If further serious discussion occurs, I'll feel obligated to lock this thread.

[JediSonic]

We need to have a 'serious theological discussion' forum

[cbwing0]

We need to have a 'serious theological discussion' forum

I agree, but I wouldn't count on it happening...ever.

[JediSonic]

Why, too much danger of it breaking up the community by letting a bunch of memebers get their arguments/beleifs bashed?

*sigh*

Why couldn't God have made a world where people loved religion and politics?

[cbwing0]

Why, too much danger of it breaking up the community by letting a bunch of memebers get their arguments/beleifs bashed?

The mods are trying to maintain a unified Christian community, despite the fact that there vast differences of belief among people on the boards in some areas (at least that's how I understand it).

Although an argument could be made for it, the policy is pretty strict, and having intense debates, even if they were in a separate forum would contradict that policy.

Believe me, no one wishes for a debate more than I do, but I am willing to compromise in order to be a part of the CAA. Besides, real forum debating is seriously time-consuming, and I don't need that kind of a drag on my schedule.

[inkhana]

The mods are trying to maintain a unified Christian community, despite the fact that there vast differences of belief among people on the boards in some areas (at least that's how I understand it).

Good call, cb. That's exactly what's going on here. If we allowed debates to run, very little would come of it. As Cephas said in another thread, these debates tend to be rather frivolous, with little, if any, change actually coming of it. I have seen this happen on other forums and people were sadly torn apart by it because of differences in conviction. This place isn't about debating...that's what the TheologyWeb link is for.

[uc pseudonym]

Yes... that really is where you should go if you want theology debates.

And I agree... serious debating takes up massive amounts of time that I don't really have. Personally, I have enough theological debate in my real life, I don't need any here.

[MasterDias]

No forum debate I have ever seen has accomplished anything in the long run.

So, they are pretty pointless.

[JediSonic]

I didn't need online theology back when I also had it in my real life, uc